No Time To Die: Production Diary

1211921202122212421252507

Comments

  • Posts: 9,846
    @peter When an A-list director who also happens to be a huge fan of the Bond novels wants to mix things up a little bit, you let him to his thing! As for some people here siding with her over Boyle: Trusting Barbara Broccoli who has a pretty abysmal track record over two people (Hodge and Boyle) who are not only at the top of their games but are also big Ian Fleming fans simply does not make any sense.

    Barbara has no talent and no vision. She should resign right now for robbing the world from a truly unique once in a life time Bond film.

    I am sorry but killing off bond (which I can confirm is exactly what Boyle wanted) is not genius but lazy story writing. Killing the main character to mix things up is right up there with “it was all a dream” or “evil twin”

    It’s lazy soap opera garbage that has no place in a bond film period
  • edited February 2019 Posts: 1,661
    Regarding Bond dying in Haggis/Hodge screenplay - you can argue Craig has developed a love/hate relationship with Bond. Craig didn't seem keen to return (the wrist cutting remark) so may have been up for the idea of Bond dying. If Craig/Boyle/Haggis were supportive of Bond dying it's understandable why Babs would go with the idea. She would want to placate them, but who knows, perhaps she was worried about the box office reaction to Bond captured or killed. She may have liked the idea but changed her mind. Too risky.

    The other major issue - is it a marketing gimmick?

    If Bond dies in Bond 25 we all know he's going to be alive in Bond 26. I assume Eon/MGM want to make more Bond films. Bond 25 is not meant to be the final James Bond film. Won't Bond's death be cheapened if he returns in some rebooted form in Bond 26? I guess so.

    Justice League featured 'a back from the dead' Superman. The film underperformed. In terms of a plot device - Superman dying in Batman v Superman and returning in the 'sequel' Justice League - it didn't enhance the box office.
    Deadline Hollywood reported that the film lost the studio around $60 million. Due to the film losing the studio money, the movie was deemed a "box office bomb" or "flop".

    I think the best way to 'kill off' Bond is have him fall from a great height or some other dire consequence and he's missing, lost in action, presumed dead. The follow-up Bond film can start with 'Bond is dead, we have a new 00 agent taking his place' and the story continues with rumours Bond is alive and Bond is found and returns in the second or third act. That might work. You give the impression Bond is dead but not really, he's back!

    Hey, it's James Bond. You can't kill the world's greatest secret agent!
  • Posts: 15,114
    DarthDimi wrote: »

    This.

    THIS!

    Yes! This is such a well-written piece of cinema science, it must be read by all, especially by those who feel that delays signal problems, no Bond film at all, a disaster waiting to happen and more.

    @CatchingBullets, thank you! This was much needed. Not even the likes of @PanchitoPistoles or @Mendes4Lyfe can break the logic of this article. I will read it again, and again, and again in the next couple of days, weeks and months. I'll be sharing it with others.

    People sometimes don't understand that a later release date does not mean a worse release date. April makes far more sense to me than February.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    So Craig will turn 52 before release. He will be older than Moore during the release of MR.
  • Posts: 9,846
    So Craig will turn 52 before release. He will be older than Moore during the release of MR.

    But still younger then Moore in A View to a Kill
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    And looking fitter too.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    And looking fitter too.

    But not nearly as charming!
  • edited February 2019 Posts: 3,164
    Why are people so adamant that Bond being killed off wouldn't work? Sure in the way the franchise worked in the past it wouldn't but the beauty of the self contained Craig era is that it would. We're getting a new actor for Bond 26 anyway with an entirely new timeline and likely supporting cast too, if audiences are used to multiple Batmen and Spider-Men over the course of the last 10 if not 5 years they'll be fine with accepting this for Bond. We all know this film, as they're setting it up to be an actual swan song for Craig, will have some sort of definitive ending for his run of the character.

    BvS/Justice League and something like Avengers Infinity War are completely different cases to what a Bond death would be in this particular film.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited February 2019 Posts: 6,287
    fanbond123 wrote: »
    Regarding Bond dying in Haggis/Hodge screenplay - you can argue Craig has developed a love/hate relationship with Bond. Craig didn't seem keen to return (the wrist cutting remark) so may have been up for the idea of Bond dying. If Craig/Boyle/Haggis were supportive of Bond dying it's understandable why Babs would go with the idea. She would want to placate them, but who knows, perhaps she was worried about the box office reaction to Bond captured or killed. She may have liked the idea but changed her mind. Too risky.

    The other major issue - is it a marketing gimmick?

    If Bond dies in Bond 25 we all know he's going to be alive in Bond 26. I assume Eon/MGM want to make more Bond films. Bond 25 is not meant to be the final James Bond film. Won't Bond's death be cheapened if he returns in some rebooted form in Bond 26? I guess so.

    Justice League featured 'a back from the dead' Superman. The film underperformed. In terms of a plot device - Superman dying in Batman v Superman and returning in the 'sequel' Justice League - it didn't enhance the box office.
    Deadline Hollywood reported that the film lost the studio around $60 million. Due to the film losing the studio money, the movie was deemed a "box office bomb" or "flop".

    I think the best way to 'kill off' Bond is have him fall from a great height or some other dire consequence and he's missing, lost in action, presumed dead. The follow-up Bond film can start with 'Bond is dead, we have a new 00 agent taking his place' and the story continues with rumours Bond is alive and Bond is found and returns in the second or third act. That might work. You give the impression Bond is dead but not really, he's back!

    Hey, it's James Bond. You can't kill the world's greatest secret agent!

    But they just did Bond falling from a great height in SF.

    I think the best way to "kill off" Bond is the ending of the YOLT novel. Burns is too busy working to read this and wouldn't for legal reasons, but my God, go back to Fleming!

    It's also possibly Fleming's best title, full of meaning and mystery.
  • Posts: 17,753
    Even if they found a way to kill off Bond in a suitable way to end the Craig era, I wouldn't watch it. Never.
  • Posts: 1,970
    So Craig will turn 52 before release. He will be older than Moore during the release of MR.

    Age is only a number. Craig looks amazing for his age. Look at Tom Cruise. He is 57 and looks like he is in his early 40s.
  • edited February 2019 Posts: 4,408
    Even if they found a way to kill off Bond in a suitable way to end the Craig era, I wouldn't watch it. Never.

    We are veering off talk of actual bond 25 news and discussing Boyle's aborted attempt.

    I endorse @PanchitoPistoles notion to set up a 'Danny Boyle's Bond 25' thread. Any discussion of Bond dying/being incarcerated can be dealt with there. It be a tify and neat place tos tore the info, so we don't get it lost in here.

    Here we should talk of the Burns/Fukunaga version of the film.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    echo wrote: »
    fanbond123 wrote: »
    Regarding Bond dying in Haggis/Hodge screenplay - you can argue Craig has developed a love/hate relationship with Bond. Craig didn't seem keen to return (the wrist cutting remark) so may have been up for the idea of Bond dying. If Craig/Boyle/Haggis were supportive of Bond dying it's understandable why Babs would go with the idea. She would want to placate them, but who knows, perhaps she was worried about the box office reaction to Bond captured or killed. She may have liked the idea but changed her mind. Too risky.

    The other major issue - is it a marketing gimmick?

    If Bond dies in Bond 25 we all know he's going to be alive in Bond 26. I assume Eon/MGM want to make more Bond films. Bond 25 is not meant to be the final James Bond film. Won't Bond's death be cheapened if he returns in some rebooted form in Bond 26? I guess so.

    Justice League featured 'a back from the dead' Superman. The film underperformed. In terms of a plot device - Superman dying in Batman v Superman and returning in the 'sequel' Justice League - it didn't enhance the box office.
    Deadline Hollywood reported that the film lost the studio around $60 million. Due to the film losing the studio money, the movie was deemed a "box office bomb" or "flop".

    I think the best way to 'kill off' Bond is have him fall from a great height or some other dire consequence and he's missing, lost in action, presumed dead. The follow-up Bond film can start with 'Bond is dead, we have a new 00 agent taking his place' and the story continues with rumours Bond is alive and Bond is found and returns in the second or third act. That might work. You give the impression Bond is dead but not really, he's back!

    Hey, it's James Bond. You can't kill the world's greatest secret agent!

    But they just did Bond falling from a great height in SF.

    I think the best way to "kill off" Bond is the ending of the YOLT novel. Burns is too busy working to read this and wouldn't for legal reasons, but my God, go back to Fleming!

    It's also possibly Fleming's best title, full of meaning and mystery.

    +1. “Killing Bond” doesn’t mean goin for a Logan kind of resolution.
  • dominicgreenedominicgreene The Eternal QOS Defender
    edited February 2019 Posts: 1,756
    Those who are so anti-formula can go and find other films and franchises to enjoy. A product is bought because it sells what made it successful and appreciated. There’s formula to it. If that product no longer sells the same formula that its customers want, then those people turn away from it, and rightfully so.

    You're right, and I have found better franchises that are suited to my tastes. Though as a lad I really liked all of the campy Bond fun, as an adult I find myself most invested in a down-to-earth tale with decent characters. There's nothing exciting about ticking off a check-mark box for me. "Generic" cinematic Bond isn't really my thing. I'm patiently waiting for another QoS, FRWL, OHMSS, etc. I think Boyle could have given us something like that.

  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited February 2019 Posts: 5,970
    I was just playing a game of Friday the 13th, and the first person I killed was a player called JAMESBOND67, I feel like Danny Boyle :D
  • AgentJamesBond007AgentJamesBond007 Vesper’s grave
    Posts: 2,632
    antovolk wrote: »
    Why are people so adamant that Bond being killed off wouldn't work? Sure in the way the franchise worked in the past it wouldn't but the beauty of the self contained Craig era is that it would. We're getting a new actor for Bond 26 anyway with an entirely new timeline and likely supporting cast too, if audiences are used to multiple Batmen and Spider-Men over the course of the last 10 if not 5 years they'll be fine with accepting this for Bond. We all know this film, as they're setting it up to be an actual swan song for Craig, will have some sort of definitive ending for his run of the character.

    BvS/Justice League and something like Avengers Infinity War are completely different cases to what a Bond death would be in this particular film.

    It would be pretty weird to see James Bond die and then at the end credits there’s a big “James Bond Will Return”. Killing the character off would cause a lot of uncertainty over the future of the series, and I’d rather not have that.
  • Posts: 1,165
    Denbigh wrote: »
    I was just playing a game of Friday the 13th, and the first person I killed was a player called JAMESBOND67, I feel like Danny Boyle :D
    :)
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Those who are so anti-formula can go and find other films and franchises to enjoy. A product is bought because it sells what made it successful and appreciated. There’s formula to it. If that product no longer sells the same formula that its customers want, then those people turn away from it, and rightfully so.

    You're right, and I have found better franchises that are suited to my tastes. Though as a lad I really liked all of the campy Bond fun, as an adult I find myself most invested in a down-to-earth tale with decent characters. There's nothing exciting about ticking off a check-mark box for me. "Generic" cinematic Bond isn't really my thing. I'm patiently waiting for another QoS, FRWL, OHMSS, etc. I think Boyle could have given us something like that.
    Boyle would’ve given us something truly abysmal. Having read that blurb, I was correct to trust my instincts.
  • DoctorNoDoctorNo USA-Maryland
    Posts: 755
    I find it hard to imagine if they were about to start shooting with Boyle, that none of his/Hodge script will be retained. Which makes him still relevant until we hear everything he came up with is not being used. Imagine if they came up with a CR like card game or a character like Red Grant, which they are more than capable of coming up with... I wouldn’t want it chucked because some fans have their own political bias projected against Boyle or like generic formula from plot point to plot point. Maybe it’s best that they’re moving on from him (or not) to improve the story, but that doesn’t mean all his contribution is some evil anti-JB propaganda.

    For all those swearing they would never see a JB movie where he dies... do you refuse to read FRWL on the same grounds?

  • Posts: 4,619
    fanbond123 wrote: »
    She would want to placate them, but who knows, perhaps she was worried about the box office reaction to Bond captured or killed. She may have liked the idea but changed her mind. Too risky.
    Logan, the Wolverine movie in which Wolverine dies also happens to be the most successful of the 3 Wolverine films, by far. Interestingly, it's also the Wolverine movie where the producers finally let the director execute his vision.
    fanbond123 wrote: »
    If Bond dies in Bond 25 we all know he's going to be alive in Bond 26. I assume Eon/MGM want to make more Bond films. Bond 25 is not meant to be the final James Bond film. Won't Bond's death be cheapened if he returns in some rebooted form in Bond 26?
    Absolutely not. Again, Logan. We all know sooner or later Wolverine will return to the big screen, played by a new actor. This knowledge does not cheapen the dramatic ending of Logan. Craig's era is a very self contained era. The death of Bond at the end of it would have no negative effect on the future of the franchise.
    fanbond123 wrote: »
    Justice League featured 'a back from the dead' Superman. The film underperformed.
    1. It underperformed because it was a horrible movie
    2. It's a completely different scenario. Caville's Superman at the end of Batman vs Superman did not die for good. Craig's Bond at the end of Bond 25 would be dead for good.

  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    DoctorNo wrote: »
    For all those swearing they would never see a JB movie where he dies... do you refuse to read FRWL on the same grounds?
    Except in FRWL, Bond’s death wasn’t explicitly told in a way that confirmed he gave his last breath away. It ended in a manner that left it ambiguous for the reader, until he was brought back in DN a year later.
  • DoctorNoDoctorNo USA-Maryland
    Posts: 755
    Except in FRWL, Bond’s death wasn’t explicitly told in a way that confirmed he gave his last breath away. It ended in a manner that left it ambiguous for the reader, until he was brought back in DN a year later.
    Right, which may be how the movie would end...
  • Posts: 16,153
    antovolk wrote: »
    Why are people so adamant that Bond being killed off wouldn't work? Sure in the way the franchise worked in the past it wouldn't but the beauty of the self contained Craig era is that it would. We're getting a new actor for Bond 26 anyway with an entirely new timeline and likely supporting cast too, if audiences are used to multiple Batmen and Spider-Men over the course of the last 10 if not 5 years they'll be fine with accepting this for Bond. We all know this film, as they're setting it up to be an actual swan song for Craig, will have some sort of definitive ending for his run of the character.

    BvS/Justice League and something like Avengers Infinity War are completely different cases to what a Bond death would be in this particular film.

    It would be pretty weird to see James Bond die and then at the end credits there’s a big “James Bond Will Return”. Killing the character off would cause a lot of uncertainty over the future of the series, and I’d rather not have that.

    I suppose it could say :

    JAMES BOND WILL NOT RETURN

    if they killed him off.


    Personally I'm against the idea. For one it seems a current trend these days that 007 doesn't need to follow. LOGAN and so forth.

    Also Fleming never killed Bond off and said if he did Bond would go out with a bang, or something to that effect. I believe that was after the FRWL novel.

    Bond isn't Christopher Lee's Dracula who can be killed at the end of every entry then brought back for the next. If I want to see that I'll just watch TASTE THE BLOOD OF DRACULA.

    Done right, though I could see Craig in a cliffhanger ending that implies Bond was killed.
    However I think it's too late for Craig , and the films aren't out frequently enough to pull it off.


  • Posts: 4,619
    Boyle would’ve given us something truly abysmal. Having read that blurb, I was correct to trust my instincts.
    Sigh... That blurb could have been the blurb of GOLDFINGER!
  • Absolutely not. Again, Logan. We all know sooner or later Wolverine will return to the big screen, played by a new actor. This knowledge does not cheapen the dramatic ending of Logan. Craig's era is a very self contained era. The death of Bond at the end of it would have no negative effect on the future of the franchise.

    If he were to die, and then they carried on making them, that would just be plain stupid. I don't know what Wolverine is, but Bond doesn't die. It's a stupid idea.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Boyle would’ve given us something truly abysmal. Having read that blurb, I was correct to trust my instincts.
    Sigh... That blurb could have been the blurb of GOLDFINGER!
    Having seen most of Boyle’s films, I am very certain it couldn’t have.

    What you’re looking at with Boyle’s blurb is a two and half hour extension of the DAD main title sequence that ends with Bond facing the firing squad after getting humiliated, tortured, kicked around, berated, belittled and finally put down like a dog.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    I'm not sure that comparison holds up, @PanchitoPistoles. In the world of "superheroes", death (and resurrection), hard and soft reboots, ... are far more commonplace than in the world of Bond. We haven't seen James Bond die, ever, since the very beginning. There's no magical stuff, no Mother Box, Lazarus Pit or anything else, to bring him back to life with, whereas in the world of Marvel, DC, ..., there's always a "next" time.

    That said, there's a next time for Bond too. If, indeed, Craig ended his tenure with a good death for Bond, then so be it. The next actor can start the cycle all over again.

    While I prefer to see Bond drive off in his Aston Martin at the end of the film, if B25 killed off Bond, or did something shady like The Dark Knight Rises, it certainly wouldn't hurt my feelings.
  • Posts: 5,767
    .
    They couldn't make FRWL today, as if. For modern audiences, a James Bond film follows the formula created by Goldfinger or Thunderball, with a few subversions of the template, especially during the Brosnan and Craig years, but if there's no large scale action scene or three or four much different countries, people would complain they're watching a John Le Carré adaptation. Anybody trying to return to the vibe of the Fleming novels, but set in modern times, can't dismiss either more than 50 years of cinematographic legacy. Remember that the script Peter Morgan wrote for Bond 23, "Once Upon a Spy", was turned down because it was too much John Le Carré, with a lot of introspection but not the big action scenes that the studio and the audiences would expect.

    So, if they want to reach for the intimacy of FRWL, they'd have to disguise it under a lot of action, just like they did with Casino Royale. The parkour scene, the whole airport sequence, the Venitian building collapsing (and the PTS of course) were all additions by the screenwriters. Some of them work better than the others. Vesper's death is colder and more effective in the novel, the parkour scene is very successful because Martin Campbell uses it to show us in less than five minutes what kind of a man Craig's Bond is. But they still needed those sequences to sell the fact that the central set piece of the story is two men sitting at the same table.

    John Hodge and Danny Boyle's pitch to the producers must have been very impressive, but what works in theory doesn't always translate into a great execution. Even if they were great fans of the source material, they may have also tried to take some liberties, to be transgressive with the formula rather than subverting it smoothly, which was something the producers would have preferred. That's the difficulty of writing a new adventure for Bond. It must feel fresh and exciting, while also staying faithful to such a long legacy.
    You're not mentioning that FRWL in its time period was kind of an action blockbuster.

  • AgentJamesBond007AgentJamesBond007 Vesper’s grave
    Posts: 2,632
    fanbond123 wrote: »
    She would want to placate them, but who knows, perhaps she was worried about the box office reaction to Bond captured or killed. She may have liked the idea but changed her mind. Too risky.
    Logan, the Wolverine movie in which Wolverine dies also happens to be the most successful of the 3 Wolverine films, by far. Interestingly, it's also the Wolverine movie where the producers finally let the director execute his vision.
    fanbond123 wrote: »
    If Bond dies in Bond 25 we all know he's going to be alive in Bond 26. I assume Eon/MGM want to make more Bond films. Bond 25 is not meant to be the final James Bond film. Won't Bond's death be cheapened if he returns in some rebooted form in Bond 26?
    Absolutely not. Again, Logan. We all know sooner or later Wolverine will return to the big screen, played by a new actor. This knowledge does not cheapen the dramatic ending of Logan. Craig's era is a very self contained era. The death of Bond at the end of it would have no negative effect on the future of the franchise.
    fanbond123 wrote: »
    Justice League featured 'a back from the dead' Superman. The film underperformed.
    1. It underperformed because it was a horrible movie
    2. It's a completely different scenario. Caville's Superman at the end of Batman vs Superman did not die for good. Craig's Bond at the end of Bond 25 would be dead for good.

    I don’t think Wolverine would return (at least for a long time). Hugh Jackman, for all intents and purposes, was Wolverine and I’m not sure they’d be able to bring in another guy to play the character the same way we’ve seen with Bond. And the key thing was the Jackman’s Wolverine was a part of the X-Men film series that could end as soon as the end of next year. Craig’s Bond series is the same as the Connery Bond series even though they don’t follow the same timeline.
Sign In or Register to comment.