No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • Posts: 4,603
    What is thrilling about a two month delay in release date? Unless you qualify it with some reasoning, it just makes no sense at all. Will they be equally thrilled by another further delay? Fans and the public want to see another Bond. By definition, a delay (without reason) is a negative so why be thrilled? They maybe confident but it's not about them.

    Marketing/promotion is about seeing the World through the eyes of the customer and you don't need to be a genius to realise that a two month delay, through that perspective, is not thrilling.

    Marketing is so much more than giving customers what they need to know.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited February 2019 Posts: 5,970
    I do wonder when some fans will start to worry about Bond25. We get delay after delay, new writers coming in almost every month... It certainly feels Bond25 is having some serious issues and I feel it more than warranted for fans to be worried.

    Yes, this lack of worrying is very worrying.
    People are probably sick of me responding, but I'm always going to defend my favourite franchise. To address @Visitor1982, you've actually made it sound worse than it actually is. We've had two delays... one that was completely warranted because of the change in director and the other is literally a two month push back and hardly the worst delay we could've gotten. Also, we haven't had new writers come in every month. We had P&W's return, which was announced ages ago, with Haggis and Burns coming on board in the last two months. EoN have had worse issues, including financial problems with MGM and the writer's strike. Re-writes and delays are a natural product of the film industry, we're just more aware of it nowadays.

    We're not worried, because we trust them and nothing can destroy our excitement, but please don't think I'm trying to say you're wrong for being worried. I just think a lot of this is being blown out of proportion, especially with all this talk of Fukunaga leaving, which is pure nonsense.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    patb wrote: »
    What is thrilling about a two month delay in release date? Unless you qualify it with some reasoning, it just makes no sense at all. Will they be equally thrilled by another further delay? Fans and the public want to see another Bond. By definition, a delay (without reason) is a negative so why be thrilled? They maybe confident but it's not about them.

    Marketing/promotion is about seeing the World through the eyes of the customer and you don't need to be a genius to realise that a two month delay, through that perspective, is not thrilling.

    Marketing is so much more than giving customers what they need to know.

    Shall we let production get underway before we start criticising their marketing abilities? They’re in a busy period of pre-production and the tantrums of a small minority are of little concern.
  • Posts: 15,106
    I post very little here and after seeing the many attacks to EON on this thread I won't even reply the many negative comments I'll get in return (I have far serious problems in my life), but I will appeal to the freedom of speech The Home of James Bond has always had -which has reached the extent to allow a member to call James Bond a "ridiculous, pathetic, misogynist, racist, homophobic, Don Quijote-like figure"- to place here my thoughts about all this Bond 25 release date/script ordeal.

    First of all, the day EON stops making James Bond films, Bond will simply cease to exist -at least as we know and love him. In the hands of Apple, Amazon, Disney or any of these corporations, all we are going to have is a bunch of "unofficial official" films à la CR'67 or NSNA, only that this time they'll be able to use the James Bond Theme, gunbarrel opening and 007 Gun Symbol Logo (TM). Get ready for spin-offs like Hugo Drax's rotten corpse jamming into the turbine of an X-Wing and that being the integral plot of the Lego-Bond-SW crossover to be released three weeks after Disney gets the Bond rights with a million fanboys in a t-shirt and short pants gasping in awe and applauding. At the same time, get ready for a black, Asian, transgender, extraterrestrial, female Bond now that EON has been cleared out of what they have been doing since 1962 (anyway, most of the anti-EON surely support these ideas). I don't know if MGW or BB may have even considered these cheap wishlists from tabloid columnists who win a lot more than you and me, but even if they did I know they display some kind of judgement and common sense to know this would be a gamble too far and end up rejecting these ideas: notably the "Kill Bond, Now!" Blofeld-esque idea by Danny Boyle. I'm really glad he left.

    In the TSWLM chapter of The James Bond Archives (Taschen, 2012), it is revealed that Anthony Burgess' script or treatment for the film, penned by the end of 1974 when the film was set for a Spring 1975 release, wanted to have Bond and Henry Kissinger naked and a boxing kangaroo. Had Cubby not intervened, the film could have reached the release date but it would have flopped and the franchise would be dead and buried. So, I'm thankful for EON for being there and preventing every kind of madness that is now a funny anecdote. Okay, they made and allowed mistakes, but none as the rejected ideas I've seen. And if the delay is because of script polishing (I don't totally reject the idea that this both convenient for both Universal and EON, either) for me they could totally release the film in April or July or November.

    On the other hand, I don't want to deal with the definition of what a Bond fan is or not, even when I have my thoughts which are well known by the community and even that alone inspired an article ("I'm flattered!"), but I certainly think Marvel and Star Wars aren't examples to look at. I know how much many of you enjoy and collect and consume these films and the vast merchandising of the films they release every week. But to me, watching Bond (any Bond, any film) will always be like having dinner at the Ritz Hotel while watching the other two would be like eating in McDonald's because I'm in a rush and/or have little money. More than that, I'd only watch Star Wars, Justice League, Iron Man, Batman vs Superman, Superman vs Batman, Superman and Batman vs Captain America and Spiderman if I was bored on a desolated Sunday, had nothing better to do, and I had my ticket paid.

    So, these are my two cents. I know some are upset at EON changing once and again the release date and just for that, they want them out. But really, there are far worse things that may affect the franchise than a slight release delay. Be careful what you wish for...

    Very good post @NS_writings.

    Regarding Anthony Burgess (my favourite writer by the way), I don't remember a boxing kangaroo in his project but there were sadoerotic elements and he meant to kill Bond midway in the movie. By his own admission he said he didn't expect for his script to be used.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    edited February 2019 Posts: 11,139
    I do wonder when some fans will start to worry about Bond25.

    If Craig drops out and EoN are thrilled to cast Idris Elba as the new James Bond.
  • Posts: 4,603
    It is interesting how the debate becomes hugely polarised. From the optimists pointing to Jaws as an example of an all time classic that went though trauma to those linking the director leaving because he dropped some instagram followers.

    So the sky will fall in or we have a Oscar winning classic on our hands. I suspect the banal reality will be the middle ground.



  • Well, I've said this before, but one area where I think EON could use some work is in the old salesmanship department.

    Let me anticipate the criticism by saying I'm hardly a ComiCon keener desperate for every piece of news from the production - far from it. Instead, what I mean is that I'd really appreciate:

    1) A more consistent and energetic presence for Bond online.

    2) A serious infusion of energy in the public face of the production. The announcement about the delay was 2 lines long. Every time a cast member is asked if they're returning for the next film, their answer is "nobody has told me anything," or "I'm too tired to contemplate that right now."

    Again, say what you will about Tom Cruise (I'm not a huge fan) but he's a great hurdy-gurdy man and positively oozes enthusiasm about his projects. A lot of the other big tentpole pictures also get out and say "we can't wait for you to see this next one, it's going to be great!" EON are sorely lacking here; dropping that general sense of distraction and fatigue would really help to gin up excitement for their movies.

    I'm largely unmoved by the argument that "they're busy/they have better things to do." We're talking about a billion-dollar operation here; taking the extra care to do things right is important.
  • Posts: 15,106
    I think some people just never got over Boyle leaving. I remember there were some similar hysteria when Logan left what would become SPECTRE.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited February 2019 Posts: 5,970
    octofinger wrote: »
    Well, I've said this before, but one area where I think EON could use some work is in the old salesmanship department.

    Let me anticipate the criticism by saying I'm hardly a ComiCon keener desperate for every piece of news from the production - far from it. Instead, what I mean is that I'd really appreciate:

    1) A more consistent and energetic presence for Bond online.

    2) A serious infusion of energy in the public face of the production. The announcement about the delay was 2 lines long. Every time a cast member is asked if they're returning for the next film, their answer is "nobody has told me anything," or "I'm too tired to contemplate that right now."

    Again, say what you will about Tom Cruise (I'm not a huge fan) but he's a great hurdy-gurdy man and positively oozes enthusiasm about his projects. A lot of the other big tentpole pictures also get out and say "we can't wait for you to see this next one, it's going to be great!" EON are sorely lacking here; dropping that general sense of distraction and fatigue would really help to gin up excitement for their movies.

    I'm largely unmoved by the argument that "they're busy/they have better things to do." We're talking about a billion-dollar operation here; taking the extra care to do things right is important.

    It's a fair point, but as for your talk about enthusiasm, we haven't really had the opportunity for them to give us this. Since production has started, Craig has been quite under the radar. He hasn't got work to promote, leaving the opportunity for him to gives us exciting statements about production on the floor, and the same goes for Barbara and Michael, they don't go to loads of press events.

    The statements from cast members are warranted because usually when they give those statements, it's too early in production to be able to tell anything. Tom Cruise and others only really gives these exciting statements about these films when given the opportunity. Eon Productions aren't going to give long winded pieces of why this film's gonna be great in a tweet, when all they're trying to do is announce the new release date and are still trying to get the script right.

    So what you really should be asking for is the opportunity for these things to happen, rather than just saying they should do it. I'm very sure if Craig was able to be on the Graham Norton Show or be able to visit another late night chat show, he'll be doing all he can to get us excited. The same goes for Fukunaga, whose only focus at the moment is 007. To be honest, we still might get this with Craig's presence at the Oscars, and we'll definitely get it when the film is finished and we get all the press junkets and interviews.

    Also, as for your comments for a better online presence. I can't think of any production company that has such an online presence. It doesn't mean they couldn't do that, but there's nothing to compare it to, to say this is how they should be doing it.
  • I do wonder when some fans will start to worry about Bond25. We get delay after delay, new writers coming in almost every month... It certainly feels Bond25 is having some serious issues and I feel it more than warranted for fans to be worried.

    Yes, this lack of worrying is very worrying.

    Concern is justified. Conclusions are not.
  • The only thing that would make me feel more certain that this film is moving forward and Fukunaga is getting to do his thing, is when Variety, Hollywood Reporter or Deadline reveal casting.

    We know Malek starts Mr Robot next Monday accoridng to this tweet:



    I don't think the filming moving to April makes any more of a difference to the situation as concerning Malek's involvement.
  • HildebrandRarityHildebrandRarity Centre international d'assistance aux personnes déplacées, Paris, France
    edited February 2019 Posts: 480
    It actually can.

    Pushing filming a month later also means that they'll finish shooting a month later. Pushing the release date by two months also gives them more windows to work with Malek, provided they can find a deal with the production of Mr. Robot, which is by the way a Universal show.

    I don't think there was a big single reason for the delay, most likely an accumulation of factors. They were already walking a tightrope with the change of director and the switch to the earlier script. They weren't totally satisfied with the current draft, a delay allows Scott Z. Burns to work on it for a month. Rami Malek has Oscar buzz but was already taken by the shooting of the final season of Mr. Robot, they have a better shot at working with him if they are still in production after Mr. Robot wraps up. The April release date is a better slot than February, and it allows Universal to keep the slot on foreign markets even if F&F9 is delayed.

    And neither Fukunaga nor Daniel Craig can walk out of the production on their own at this point. They would have to pay a ton of money to the producers because of the delays and costs they would cause.
  • DonnyDB5DonnyDB5 Buffalo, New York
    Posts: 1,755
    And neither Fukunaga nor Daniel Craig can walk out of the production on their own at this point. They would have to pay a ton of money to the producers because of the delays and costs they would cause.

    Are we sure about this?
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    edited February 2019 Posts: 2,641
    Mod Edit. Goes away for the weekend with the Mrs, Bond 25 is exactly a year away
    Comes back Monday, to 300 odd new messages world war 3 has started and ended on this thread, Only to find out Bond 25 has been delayed 2 months and the script is being rewritten
    I thought by the messages we had a new casting leak, production pic of Daniel or Panchito had revealed themselves to be Barbara Broccoli in disguise.
    Not gonna lie it's tough to take at first, but on the bright side it's better than the situation this time 2 years ago... we had no lead actor, no script and no studio.
    Could be a lot worse guys.
    Hopefully in 18 months time we'll be reminiscing about the latest new Bond film that was the best since Skyfall.
  • TuxedoTuxedo Europe
    Posts: 259
    A romantic view would be: We have a great James Bond story. People love Ian Fleming’s book. Let‘s turn it into a James Bond movie.

    A realistic view would be: We want to keep the value of the franchise and earn money with it. So let‘s make another movie. And let‘s take Daniel Craig again. His Bond outings were big box office hits. He will do it because he is a professional actor who earnes his money with acting. His management told him to go back to Bond to keep his market value high (since everything after Spectre wasn‘t that successful). Got him (without a script so far)? Great! Now we got this clear we need a decent story and do some marketing what‘s hot in the business...

  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Of course putting together a great Bond film for Daniel's last one as Bond is important in itself. He's a hugely popular Bond, box office also. Casino Royale helped this franchise beyond what most folks can grasp (not meaning members here) and Skyfall was a shot in the vein globally, bringing even more life and attention to this series. I believe the time and care given to the script can be seen as positive or negative, but I honestly think this will turn out to be a positive (ending with a good script and we already have a director who can be visually stunning and a good storyteller).

    So predictable for me is the choice of who will sing the title song. Always seems to be whoever is "hot" currently during production. That routine I'd like to change. ;)
  • TuxedoTuxedo Europe
    Posts: 259
    Of course putting together a great Bond film for Daniel's last one as Bond is important in itself.

    Yes it is. But we are not talking about a laudatio for Daniel Craig. Bond 25 is a massive production. It‘s all about business. It‘s all about money.
  • brinkeguthriebrinkeguthrie Piz Gloria
    edited February 2019 Posts: 1,400
    IMO a big part of the problem is EONs total radio silence. They don't EVER say ANYthing about ANYthing. So frenzied fans such as you find here are left to endless speculation. They could so much use Twitter and FB and IG to their benefit, yet all you get is a one sentence, barebones release, 'we are thrilled about April 8 2020.' They shoot themselves in the foot and only have themselves to blame. OK, delays happen. Tell. Us. Why. It's 2019, and the way the newfangled internet is, it's a 24/365 firehose of data. Yet EON thinks TMB (Total Media Blackout) is the right way to go. Well, maybe or maybe not. But it doesn't inspire confidence or enthusiasm with the fanbase.....does it?
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited February 2019 Posts: 5,970
    =bg= wrote: »
    Well, maybe or maybe not. But it doesn't inspire confidence or enthusiasm with the fanbase.....does it?
    A fair argument, but again, what production company does do this? Marvel etc. give us more announcements due to their many properties, but they don't interact with their fans or use their social media to their benefit like you're describing?

    Also, think of the video blogs we get during production, which I'm sure we'll get this time round as well. They'll have a lot more to give us when filming has started.
  • DonnyDB5DonnyDB5 Buffalo, New York
    Posts: 1,755
    =bg= wrote: »
    IMO a big part of the problem is EONs total radio silence. They don't EVER say ANYthing about ANYthing. So frenzied fans such as you find here are left to endless speculation. They could so much use Twitter and FB and IG to their benefit, yet all you get is a one sentence, barebones release, 'we are thrilled about April 8 2020.' They shoot themselves in the foot and only have themselves to blame. OK, delays happen. Tell. Us. Why. It's 2019, and the way the newfangled internet is, it's a 24/365 firehose of data. Yet EON thinks TMB (Total Media Blackout) is the right way to go. Well, maybe or maybe not. But it doesn't inspire confidence or enthusiasm with the fanbase.....does it?

    This.
  • Posts: 16,149
    Birdleson wrote: »
    For me it's not a matter of anger, so much as loss of enthusiasm. For the third time in my life (the others following MR and in the years following LTK) I find myself not really caring where the franchise is headed next; and all of these delays are pushing me further in that direction. It took me almost a decade to rekindle my interest after '79; longer after Dalton left. It was nice that well into middle-age, in the midst and after Craig's first three, I was like excited like kid again. It saddens me that I feel that slipping away. Could it turn around in another ten years, or sooner if B25 outdoes expectations (I don't care about box office a bit, I'm talking about my own expectations)? Certainly, I hope. But the gross apathy that I am feeling now sucks.

    I hate to admit I've been feeling the same. However this is the first time I've ever felt that about the Bond series. Even during the 6 year hiatus I had more optimism than now.
    I do hope B25 turns it around, and that Eon is planning ahead for the future. Doesn't quite feel like it, though being a one picture distribution deal. My lack of enthusiasm boils down to the fact that being we're currently in the 2nd longest gap in the series, delayed yet again, what kind of gap are we looking a post B25?
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    "It's all about money"
    Of COURSE it is a business, a huge, mega successful, decades long, highly respected franchise. But because it is not yet owned by Disney, Marvel, etc. (as others are recently pointing out), it is still about more than just money. We're lucky to have EON handling Bond still - yeah, I do believe that - though that is an unpopular opinion around here at times.
  • Posts: 5,767
    =bg= wrote: »
    IMO a big part of the problem is EONs total radio silence. They don't EVER say ANYthing about ANYthing. So frenzied fans such as you find here are left to endless speculation. They could so much use Twitter and FB and IG to their benefit, yet all you get is a one sentence, barebones release, 'we are thrilled about April 8 2020.' They shoot themselves in the foot and only have themselves to blame. OK, delays happen. Tell. Us. Why. It's 2019, and the way the newfangled internet is, it's a 24/365 firehose of data. Yet EON thinks TMB (Total Media Blackout) is the right way to go. Well, maybe or maybe not. But it doesn't inspire confidence or enthusiasm with the fanbase.....does it?
    Well, I´d say those with expectaions have Always a big Chance of being disappointed.
    The Circus in this thread is so ridiculous, because, 2019 and Internet or not, if people´s lives depend on the Marketing of a film, then something´s seriously rotten.

  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    edited February 2019 Posts: 2,541
    boldfinger wrote: »
    =bg= wrote: »
    IMO a big part of the problem is EONs total radio silence. They don't EVER say ANYthing about ANYthing. So frenzied fans such as you find here are left to endless speculation. They could so much use Twitter and FB and IG to their benefit, yet all you get is a one sentence, barebones release, 'we are thrilled about April 8 2020.' They shoot themselves in the foot and only have themselves to blame. OK, delays happen. Tell. Us. Why. It's 2019, and the way the newfangled internet is, it's a 24/365 firehose of data. Yet EON thinks TMB (Total Media Blackout) is the right way to go. Well, maybe or maybe not. But it doesn't inspire confidence or enthusiasm with the fanbase.....does it?
    Well, I´d say those with expectaions have Always a big Chance of being disappointed.
    The Circus in this thread is so ridiculous, because, 2019 and Internet or not, if people´s lives depend on the Marketing of a film, then something´s seriously rotten.

    +1
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I'm old school, so I'm rather fine with not having a constant stream of info, tidbits, gossip, etc. on social media re James Bond. Yet I'm a lifelong, die-hard Fleming and Bond film fan. I don't mind them putting out info only once in a while. I don't think blanketing all social media with constant Bond 25 items would be a great thing. And I think the young fans, all the current ones on social media gobbling everything up, can also live with less than being inundated with Bond 25 info. Maybe you all want a happy medium re what EON feeds us; I am unsure.

    I'll get my coat now - over my hot pants, halter top, feather boa, and love beads and just bop along ... ;)
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I don’t care about the “tidbits” either. But it would be nice to get a damned movie every now and then.

    Fair. It’s all about the movie for me, the rest is yesterday’s news.
  • brinkeguthriebrinkeguthrie Piz Gloria
    Posts: 1,400
    I'm old school, so I'm rather fine with not having a constant stream of info, tidbits, gossip, etc. on social media re James Bond. Yet I'm a lifelong, die-hard Fleming and Bond film fan. I don't mind them putting out info only once in a while. I don't think blanketing all social media with constant Bond 25 items would be a great thing. And I think the young fans, all the current ones on social media gobbling everything up, can also live with less than being inundated with Bond 25 info. Maybe you all want a happy medium re what EON feeds us; I am unsure.

    I'll get my coat now - over my hot pants, halter top, feather boa, and love beads and just bop along ... ;)

    That's the point; EON feeds us nothing. So we're left to endless speculation. They could so much use the interwebs to their advantage to, er, promote the series. Yet they remain stuck in the 1960s or 1970s in terms of communication, when all we could learn was what was in the evening newspaper.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited February 2019 Posts: 12,480
    They have given us info when there is definite confirmed info. I don't mind there being months between info. Pace always picks up as filming nears. We should have more cast news coming. On social media there will always be endless speculation, sure.

    They could give us video blogs again once filming starts, etc. But nothing beforehand is okay with me, promotion/marketing wise.
  • HildebrandRarityHildebrandRarity Centre international d'assistance aux personnes déplacées, Paris, France
    Posts: 480
    DonnyDB5 wrote: »
    And neither Fukunaga nor Daniel Craig can walk out of the production on their own at this point. They would have to pay a ton of money to the producers because of the delays and costs they would cause.

    Are we sure about this?

    Of course, we are.

    Unless there's a tragedy or an extraordinary motive to leave, Craig and Fukunaga have something called a contract to honour.
    Also, remember that George Lazenby was basically blacklisted by all major studios after his agent pushed too hard the negotiation game with Cubby Broccoli for a long-term contract and because of his overall attitude. Remember that Peter Sellers was also blacklisted due to his behaviour during the production of the 1967 Casino Royale. Remember that James Bond girl Kim Basinger had to pay millions because she had backed out of Boxing Helena.
    Of course, actors and directors can get released from their obligations, as it happened with Danny Boyle. Boyle was basically fired, but he didn't dispute that creative differences caused the split. But they weren't that close to the start of production at this point. These days, they already have a crew to pay, they would have to destroy the sets that are starting to get built at Pinewood because the sound stages will be used by other projects, they would have to start from scratch with local authorities and suppliers over location shootings, rehearsals have begun, etc. The investment is already quite big, and the production wouldn't accept some major piece of the film to depart at this point causing more delays.

    MGM, Annapurna and Universal are paying for the fifth James Bond film starring Daniel Craig in the lead, which automatically creates box office expectations compared to some new and unproved actor in the part. It was originally set up for a November 2019 release. They can live with a six month delay, provided there's a mutual agreement on it, but they can't afford the production to accept some more significant changes.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,970
    DonnyDB5 wrote: »
    And neither Fukunaga nor Daniel Craig can walk out of the production on their own at this point. They would have to pay a ton of money to the producers because of the delays and costs they would cause.

    Are we sure about this?

    Of course, we are.
    @HildebrandRarity, you're my hero haha :D
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