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Comments
Hear, hear. Why not have Roger return as Bond as well ;-)
But I would love for a bit more serious/realistic approach for Bond 25 like FYEO.
Makes no sense as MI5 (homeland, internal security service, not part of or known as 'SIS') and the SIS (Secret Inteligence Service), or what is popularly called MI6 (military intelligence section 6, what this foreign service used to be called) are not part of the same government organisation.
Not part of the same government organisation your say
MI6 operates under the formal direction of the Joint Intelligence Committee (JIC) alongside the internal Security Service (MI5), the Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ) and Defence Intelligence (DI).
They are both under the JIC. You really should research before criticising.
I was criticizing the below, ie. the 'SF world' in which these services are somehow merged and one and the same:
Quote: "MI5 and MI6 were merged to form SIS the joint intelligent services its own body "
That is what makes no sense, as far as I'm concerned. Not your explanation of it, nothing wrong with that.
Limitations of online discussion, I'm afraid.
I think another reboot would be a stupid idea unless they go whole hog and make it a solid, character driven drama with the obligatory action of course. The whole film would have to be devoted to Bond being recruited into the service, fresh from the Royal Navy (even including some scenes of him in the Navy which would be fantastic) and then have him kill two people, not without reluctance and anguish, in order to earn his double O status. Of course they'd have to be a plot that surrounds this too. If they were to reboot this series, then just a PTS sequence seeing Bond earn his stripes would be a complete, unnecessary waste of time and would cheapen the franchise somewhat. The Bond films have always endured and have started where the previous character left off with the exception of the Craig era.
At the moment, I wonder if Eon are thinking of much else except for hanging on to Mendes and Craig for dear life.
Yea I get the jest that they Mendes and even Craig aren't the end all be all for the producers now.
Maybe I'm wrong, but to say the say goes on regardless kinda is different.
I think you need to check your facts. I know for a fact that SIS is full of ex-military. So it's not a huge leap to imagine serving officers being seconded to SIS.
Also being a member of the armed forces doesn't mean you can't also be a Civil Servant. What do you think all those officers at the MOD on Whitehall are doing? They're not on active service, but they are still commissioned officers in the military. Again, I know for a fact that there are current members of the British Army working in civil service type roles for the MOD - as Defence Attaches for example within British diplomatic missions. Whether they're technically Civil Servants or not is a moot point IMO - although I am pretty sure there will be serving military officers on the MOD's payroll.
Anything I can find about it on the Internet suggests there is a fair bit of overlap between certain parts of the military and SIS. It would be strange if there wasn't really.
I may not know much about this, but you clearly know even less.
Also, according the ever reliable Wikipedia, SIS (Secret Intelligence Service) refers only to MI6. MI5 is simply SS - the Security Service.
The MI6 and MI5 websites suggest this is true as they also use the same terminology. Infact it seems MI5 and MI6 were only ever cover names any way.
So... Looks like you're wrong on pretty much every count.
Yes, MI5 and MI6 are separate. The plot of Spectre involved C trying to merge the two together. It wasn't until 1994 that they officially existed. MI6 is the Secret Intelligence Service and deals with intelligence gathering and UK interests abroad. MI5 is the Security Service and deals with domestic intelligence. Secondment does occur.
@SirHilaryBrary appears to have access to conflicting information. I think he's being fed duff info by his contacts. ;) . He's been handed a dodgy dossier IMO.
Yes that certainly can happen as well as secondment from GCHQ. A big part of intelligence is the decision to share or hold on to information. So secondment may occur because it is expedient to share certain information/use someone's skills from another area or you may withold information, even from your allies because it is expedient to do so.
Your a clown I explained this
MI6 operates under the formal direction of the Joint Intelligence Committee (JIC) alongside the internal Security Service (MI5), the Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ) and Defence Intelligence (DI).
Both have separate offices and staff but both report to JIC the same government department. They both fall under the JIC/DI
What the hell is so hard to understand about that, that you keep your stupid snipping argument going.
The only way Bond could be a Commander in the current SIS is if he was given a cloaked CBE (Commander of the British Empire) you don't have Military secondments in SIS, that is like saying you have Navy officer on secondment to the RAF. Each body including SIS/Royal Navy/Army/SIS chief officers would report to the Chief of Staff in the Bond world Tanner.
The Brosnan/Craig era films reflect this with accuracy as I stated before Bond no longer works for The Secret Service the offshoot of Naval Intelligence, Nor does he work for the now defunct MI6 he works for SIS. In the modern world, he is not in the Navy, never been in the Navy. And even if he had and then joined SIS his Commander Bond status would not be recognised, as he as there is no such thing a SIS Commander he's a "00" Section field operative. It's all part of keeping Bond in the modern working world, by having him work for the intelligence agency that exists now rather the one in the 50's.
The Commander Bond thing was outdated and has been killed off I am sorry you find that so hard to accept, but it is just not that important to the films or the character.
'Commander James Bond C.M.G. R.N.' is what appears on the obituary that M writes in Skyfall. You are right about the JIC. But really you don't need to call someone a clown, let's be friends, yeah?
Another reason why Babs is not fit to make creative calls. 'Removing' or ignoring the military/naval link Bond has was a poor choice on the part of EoN. It is part of what makes 007 the man he (fictionally) is.
Like ignoring the fact that Bruce Wayne is an orphan...
They didn't 'drop' Commander in Skyfall, M's obit. reads Commander James Bond C.M.G. R.N.
Which Bond films actually do reference his naval background?
YOLT does, as does TSWLM, TND, and Skyfall. Any others?
I'm not familiar enough or at all to understand despite some explanations on here if that's possible for Bond as well.
Btw being in the NSA he's probably reading this now.
Hey Wade, wats up?
Where did they drop Commander? And why would that fall on Babs and not MGW, or the director, or the writers?
Exactly, which is why I'm confused about the attack on Babs.
This, ladies and gentleman is why fact-checking is important.
Quite.
They did not drop it completely, perhaps I should clarify.
To Obituary reads Commander James Bond C.M.G. R.N. The RN is for Royal Navy.
Flemings Bond portayed on screen ending with Dalton was from The British Secret Service which started as a joint initiative of the Admiralty and the War Office (something which Fleming himself was pivotal in the formation of in real life). In 1994 the Intelligence Services Act came to power. became law and as a result intelligence matters were moved to the control of the GCHQ (Government Communications Headquarters) so no longer aligned to the Navy or the War office.
So any Bond film after 1994 had the issue to deal with Bond could not be Bond in the Royal Navy aligned intelligence service as it was now GCHQ MI6.
They messed this up by putting Brosnan in Naval uniform in TND (1997), and changed it for the reboot Craig Bond is a former Royal navy commander (likely Commandos) who is now the employment of MI6 - as they are no longer in the Royal Navy or employed by the armed forces Bond is a civil servants, his commander title means nothing within his employment with MI6/SIS he is a "00" operational field agent and a former Commander in the Royal Navy. This is why you won't see Dan in Navy Uniform and nobody within MI6/SIS calls him Commander.
Prince Charles served in the RAF and Royal Navy, he an Admiral in the Royal Navy. And Admiral of the Fleet of the RAF. We refer to him as His Royal highness the Prince of Wales as he is no longer serving but all of the above would feature on his obituary as all decorated military honours are celebrated.
Craig's Bond military dossier.