No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited September 2016 Posts: 4,399
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    So, do we think DC has really been offered $150 million to do 'virtually' 2 back-to-back films? It's the first time since Spectre came out that he's been the bookies favourite to be Bond in the next film.

    i don't really buy this... unless it's some sort of power play for Sony - because they are very desperate at this point for a successful tentpole franchise, that i wouldn't put it past them throwing that kind of stupid money at EON and Craig for 2 more films, and to continue sucking on the Bond teet for a little while longer..

    but Sony can't outright pay Daniel anything in terms of Bond... unless the deal is that Sony would pick up his tab (along with half of the production budget once again)
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,169

    I'm hoping that we can have a well written and directed Bond film for Bond 25. I really like Daniel Craig as Bond, and though I'm in the minority, I actually enjoy Spectre and his performance in it. However, if his heart is not in it, I'd rather he left the role. Better to have a new actor, than an actor who's only there for the money (See, Connery DAF)
    And like those that have mentioned the 'homages' and 'nods' to the old films, why do we have to do it in every film now?
    Unlike nearly everyone, I also like the DB5 at the end of Spectre. The Bond theme blasting out. And Bond and Madeline drive off. For me it worked. But that was about it. The DB5 has been so over used since CR, and even the return in GE and TND was too much. Let it go!
    Over the last few years I've noticed that my appreciation of the films has taken me back to those of the 60's. Simpler stories. Sometimes less gadgets or even stunts. But good solid stories, with decent often unknown actors. Yes, they were often over the top and pushed to boundaries of plausibility. But they were entertaining and fun. I often get the feeling, especially since CR that the Bond films are trying too hard. Luring bigger name actors to play parts that they're not really suited too. Waltz makes an interesting Blofeld and I'd be happy for him to return. But was he really giving his all, or was he merely happy to add Bond film to his list of films?
    With Bond 25 I don't want any references to Bonds past, be it emotionally or as a homage. Cut back on the Mi6 stock company and give us a story that can't be questioned over it's problems by a 10 year old. I was watching SF earlier, and continually asked myself questions that frankly ruin the movie. For anyone who has a problem with SP, then SF is equally as bad story wise.
    By all means make the story a little out there. But make sure it works first. Then spend lots and lots of time making the script right. At least then we might be onto something.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited September 2016 Posts: 4,399
    @Benny...

    i think they fell into the trap of trying to be a little too clever with their stories... sometimes a simple straight forward mission is the best way to go.... you can still dive and delve into a character (as Craig likes to do) while not having to mine every last nugget out of his past... I don't personally mind the foster-bro thing in SP, but i can perfectly understand why it's so offputting to a lot of fans - it's shoehorned in, because they needed something - it doesn't feel natural, and comes off as more as "upping the ante" or "pushing to envelope" of unresolved childhood problems that was briefly touched upon in SF...... Bond has survived as a character for 50 years with little to no knowledge of his past or upbringing in the films - and i am not saying that we should never get glimpses or windows looking in, because that can be fascinating.. but having it shoved in to 2 straight films i think was a bit overkill... as much as i enjoyed SP, it felt like SF redux... Mendes shot his load with SF, but when he came back it was like he really didn't know what to do, so he just did SF all over again - but switched the mother/son dynamic that worked in SF, to a father/son/brother one in SP, which fell a bit flat.. and all of this while recycling that same "old vs new" theme that was also a part of SF...... to put it simply, SP feels like a retread instead of a natural progression of the story and character..

    i also agree, if Craig's heart isn't truly in it - then i would rather see him go, as much as i love him as Bond.. but we'll see, i truly couldn't see Dan simply going through the motions in order to cash a check like Connery did in DAF, i think he has a little more respect to the role than that... although that is a sacrilegious amount of money to say no to lol... i would slap my dear old mom for that much money - but then gladly pay her off afterward lol.
  • $150 million for Craig to return for two back to back Bond films? Hell yea! Pay the man NOW!
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    As long as it's not EON's money and the future of the franchise isn't put at risk by this madness then I say pay it.

    I'd rather see Dan back than any of the rumoured alternatives and if Sony want to spunk absurd sums chasing a tent pole franchise then that's fine with me.

    Although if they end up bankrupting themselves when B25 only takes $650m where does that leave the series going forwards?
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited September 2016 Posts: 4,399
    production budget would need to be scaled back... even though SP turned out $850mil world wide, it was marginally profitable (at best), because of it's grossly high production budget.... scaling it back down to even $200mil p.b. would help immensely..

    but i feel like Bond movies could, and should really stay between a $150 - $200mil p.b. in this day and age - unless we are getting a completely stripped down bare bones thriller, in which case you could probably go even cheaper... but i feel like anything more than $225mil for a p.b, and the studio is playing with fire - because the return will need to be hefty in order to turn profit.
  • Posts: 7,616
    Whats wrong with scaling back? Unfortunately its expected by Joe Public, numerous glamourous locations and big scale action set-pieces. Wouldn't it be great if they went with a smaller scale thriller, a good story with interesting characters. We could only hope!
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    there is nothing wrong with scaling back... i would welcome something more along the lines of CR again..

    i feel like whatever new studio (or perhaps most recent studio) takes over the distribution/50% p.b. deal, or something similar - that cutting back on on the p.b. will no doubt be one of the main area of concerns.. these companies are in it to maximize profits, and unless they are The Mouse, which has a seemingly endless supply of money - i fully expect Bond 25's p.b. to be smaller than that of SP or possibly even SF.
  • Posts: 7,616
    I'd have no problem with that! I think its going to be crucial who they pick for screenwriter(s) and Director for Bond 25!
  • I feel MGM will want to bring the budget of B25 under control after the problems with Spectre, which must have significantly affected the profitability of the film.
  • I wonder if there's something wrong with scaling back?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2016 Posts: 23,883
    The possible issue with scaling back is less gross box office. A lower budget film, with less extravagant stunts and explosions may make less globally (and particularly in the rapidly expanding and growing Asian markets). Having said that, the 'net' profit could still be superior.

    For a scaled back film to really work, it has to be an intelligent thriller but not overly complex, in order for it to translate nicely into foreign markets and appeal to a wide audience. It's not an easy thing to achieve or shoot for, especially when you've got a franchise that has recently hit the $1bn mark in global gross (money talks).

    It's a question of how wide a net one wants to cast, in terms of exposure.
  • edited September 2016 Posts: 4,617
    Big explosions or closing a city down for a car chase are pretty meaningless if the audience are not involved/engaged. Sorry to mention Bourne but there is a sequence when a flat is blown up and two guys in the front garden get blown back, its a great scene and far more impressive than a World Record set in the desert with Bond looking on from over a mile away. I dont think punters go in to see big explosions, they want to be entertained and enthralled so we keep coming back to scripts and direction IMHO
    IMHO a guy with a razor, dancing round a tied down police man, singing along to Gerry Rafferty is 1000 times more thrilling, tense, etc than a meaningless explosion in a dessert. Its all about involvement.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    The money they spent on that car chase and the big deal about it being in Rome was not on the screen.

    We need something like the QOS car chase with not so frenetic editing and camera work.

    I thought we were going to get something visceral and memorable but instead it was a gentle jaunt through the city compared to the QOS one.

    I watched both parts of Jean-François Richet Mesrine at the weekend as well as Cassell being utterly electrifying I'd forgotten how well paced they both are and the cracking shoot outs and car chases throughout, also great use of Mathieu Almaric.

    Richet would be great for Bond, I know he's just directed the Blood father with Mel Gibson in recently but he's certainly got the chops to make an exciting thrilling film.
  • DoctorNoDoctorNo USA-Maryland
    Posts: 755
    bondjames wrote: »
    I've come to the conclusion that the White scene and what immediately precedes it (Bond driving in Austria and on the boat) are the best in SP. Better than the pretitles. I think that's why it featured in the trailers.

    I think that scene shows why Mendes shouldn't be a filmmaker (along with Logan), let alone a Bond filmmaker. It's a stage play scene. Filmmaking 101: you're suppose to show what happens, not discuss it.

    Show us:
    White betraying Blofeld (or Blofeld taking issue with him)
    White getting poisoned or discover he's being poisoned
    Bond discover White has a daughter
    Then show the critical piece of info that Blofeld and Hinx are after or the interesting detail that leads to Blofeld's whereabouts or who he really is (if they had made it interesting).

    It's basically the heart of the film and it should have been expanded upon and delivered, instead we get the MI6 team subplot and the bloated repeat ending, etc.

    QoS did this in an even worse way with the dock scene which was 3 scenes crammed into 1 where they explain the whole movie.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    DoctorNo wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I've come to the conclusion that the White scene and what immediately precedes it (Bond driving in Austria and on the boat) are the best in SP. Better than the pretitles. I think that's why it featured in the trailers.

    I think that scene shows why Mendes shouldn't be a filmmaker (along with Logan), let alone a Bond filmmaker. It's a stage play scene. Filmmaking 101: you're suppose to show what happens, not discuss it.

    Show us:
    White betraying Blofeld (or Blofeld taking issue with him)
    White getting poisoned or discover he's being poisoned
    Bond discover White has a daughter
    Then show the critical piece of info that Blofeld and Hinx are after or the interesting detail that leads to Blofeld's whereabouts or who he really is (if they had made it interesting).

    It's basically the heart of the film and it should have been expanded upon and delivered, instead we get the MI6 team subplot and the bloated repeat ending, etc.

    QoS did this in an even worse way with the dock scene which was 3 scenes crammed into 1 where they explain the whole movie.

    well, thats kind of the problem when you try to connect the events of 3 previous films that barely shared a connection before.. CR and QOS were directly connected, which is why (imo) they flow really well from one to the other - they literally feel like parts 1 and 2 of a bigger overarching story.. SF was it's own thing... but they HAD to find a way to connect it all together....

    it all boils down to that they had no real plan in place.. they wanted connected films - but didn't have a plan in place from the beginning - which would've helped.
  • edited September 2016 Posts: 4,622
    @wiz If it makes you feeling any better, I am very much on record as having Sammy as my least favourite Bond director, for a zillion reasons that I am too lazy to go into now

    I've got SPat #23 and SF at #24, although they might be flip-flopping soon.
    That's bottom of heap.
    But I do like Mendes homages. The DB5 in GF,. carried over to SP too, was whacked, but the rest of them I do actually like, such as the landing on the couch in SP.
    The landing did seem familiar when I first saw it, but it didn't click, until someone on here pointed it out.
    @haserot Good Mendes critique. My Bond experience with him has probably now turned me off every else he's ever done.
    @benny. The original films yes, are the best I think, for the reasons you suggest.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    @timmer, I had the exact same ranking until I flipped them, as well.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited September 2016 Posts: 15,723
    I used to be a big fan of Mendes' work on 'Jarhead' and 'Road to Perdition', but since SP i've felt no desire to see those again. I will continue watching SF/SP, because they are Bond films and with a badass Craig, but his non-Bond work is off-limits for me now.
  • Posts: 4,622
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    @timmer, I had the exact same ranking until I flipped them, as well.

    :)) Some might say we are being harsh, and they might be right, but.different tastes....
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,723
    timmer wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    @timmer, I had the exact same ranking until I flipped them, as well.

    :)) Some might say we are being harsh, and they might be right, but.different tastes....

    I have SF at #24 and SP at #23 as well.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    I can absolutely understand that some people will have both Mendes outings at the bottom. It seems logical at first sight.
    SF is a bloody shambles of a film and Mended just failed it.

    To my total utter amazement I had one of the greatest ever cinematic experiences when watching Spectre. I can't even believe it's from the same director that gave us that SF mess. I had to view SP 13 times at the cinema I was that hooked.

    So now it happens, and that is truly amazing, strange, ironic, destiny that I have one Mendes movie at the Top of my ranking and one at the bottom.

    SPECTRE has dethroned GoldenEye after 20 years.

    Both movies are opposites in many ways. While SF is dreary, fun-less and humourless and takes itself way too seriously SP is positive, funny, witty, fantastically OTT and full of amazing iconic sequences.
    Even Craig's performances vary greatly. SF gives us one of the worst Bond performances ever and SP one of the very best, only TB comes to mind as being even better in that regard.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    timmer wrote: »
    @wiz If it makes you feeling any better, I am very much on record as having Sammy as my least favourite Bond director, for a zillion reasons that I am too lazy to go into now

    I've got SPat #23 and SF at #24, although they might be flip-flopping soon.
    That's bottom of heap.
    But I do like Mendes homages. The DB5 in GF,. carried over to SP too, was whacked, but the rest of them I do actually like, such as the landing on the couch in SP.

    Afraid we're at opposite ends of the spectrum as its the homages that I hate most about him. Just get on and direct Sammy rather than bothering yourself with all this fanwank and you're a good director. Sadly he's allowed himself to get far too bogged down with the thought 'I'm making a Bond film, I must make it Bondy' than just going out there and making a good film. Certainly with SP you sense he gave more thought to all the meaningless fluff than he did to the script.

    However ranking SP last I find as risible as ranking it top quite frankly.
  • edited September 2016 Posts: 2,115
    //As long as it's not EON's money and the future of the franchise isn't put at risk by this madness then I say pay it.//


    It's never Eon's money. Whatever upfront costs (such as writers for a script) they have are compensated when the studio approves and goes forward with the movie. After that point, it's studio (or studios plural) money.

    Albert R. Broccoli tried financing a movie once (The Trials of Oscar Wilde). Never tried that again.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    I can absolutely understand that some people will have both Mendes outings at the bottom. It seems logical at first sight.
    SF is a bloody shambles of a film and Mended just failed it.

    To my total utter amazement I had one of the greatest ever cinematic experiences when watching Spectre. I can't even believe it's from the same director that gave us that SF mess. I had to view SP 13 times at the cinema I was that hooked.

    So now it happens, and that is truly amazing, strange, ironic, destiny that I have one Mendes movie at the Top of my ranking and one at the bottom.

    SPECTRE has dethroned GoldenEye after 20 years.

    Both movies are opposites in many ways. While SF is dreary, fun-less and humourless and takes itself way too seriously SP is positive, funny, witty, fantastically OTT and full of amazing iconic sequences.
    Even Craig's performances vary greatly. SF gives us one of the worst Bond performances ever and SP one of the very best, only TB comes to mind as being even better in that regard.

    How so opposite us Bond fan can be, you swap them round and that's my opinion, it's good you loved it so much I guess.

    I suppose to have 3 Bond films I enjoy I should be grateful, I thought that maybe to have 4 would be nice but I lived through the period from 1995 - 2002 and that was excrutiating at times so I'm sure I'll survive.
  • Red_SnowRed_Snow Australia
    edited September 2016 Posts: 2,545
    commanderbond.net just posted this translation of an interview with Christoph Waltz from Zeit-Magazin Mann (No. 1 / 2016).

    Financially, SPECTRE has been a huge success. It had a box office of $880 million, only one other James Bond film earned more.

    And yet, Waltz isn’t satisfied – with his own performance, with the result.

    ‘I cannot claim that I’ve really nailed Blofeld. Overall it held water, was okay. But it wasn’t what I’ve been looking for. I was searching for more inspiration.’

    He has been getting this vibe even before shooting started, but by then it was already too late.

    ‘An actor can only be really good when there are shared possibilities.’

    He refuses to be any more specific about it, but it’s clear what he means by that: apparently the chemistry between him and director Sam Mendes didn’t play out the way he would have wished for.

    How does one survive a PR spectacle such as James Bond?

    First he says ‘I’ve survived worse’ and then he adds ‘There is a tendency to excessiveness. I understand you want to invite as many guests as possible to a premiere. But does it absolutely have to be the Royal Albert Hall? That doesn’t really help the whole cause. In the end it’s a film, and it should remain a film. The next premiere will probably be a national holiday; it almost was this time. I don’t see what’s so bad about the Odeon at Leicester Square for a premier cinema?’

    At the end of SPECTRE his Blofeld is still alive – is a sequel with Waltz possible?

    ‘I don’t know about that, nobody knows. It wasn’t talked about, except in the press. Right now nobody even knows which studio will produce the next and if Daniel will return. All of that is filed under “carry on”‘


    I for one was really hoping Waltz would shine as Blofeld. But obviously there were problems from the get go, and I think it really showed at times. I'm assuming this also explains the huge difference in his delivery of certain lines in the trailer vs. the film. I'm really intrigued as to what his vision for the character is, and what Mendes' was.
  • //At the end of SPECTRE his Blofeld is still alive – is a sequel with Waltz possible?

    ‘I don’t know about that, nobody knows. It wasn’t talked about, except in the press.'//

    This coming from the same person who denied he was playing Blofeld in the first place.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    //At the end of SPECTRE his Blofeld is still alive – is a sequel with Waltz possible?

    ‘I don’t know about that, nobody knows. It wasn’t talked about, except in the press.'//

    This coming from the same person who denied he was playing Blofeld in the first place.

    Of course he knows. When you're dealing with an A-list villain in a tentpole franchise, it's probably worked into his contract in some capacity. Stranger things have happened, but, when you get an actor of Waltz's caliber, you most likely don't want him for only one film-- especially as his character is left alive and, mostly, healthy.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Shardlake wrote: »
    I can absolutely understand that some people will have both Mendes outings at the bottom. It seems logical at first sight.
    SF is a bloody shambles of a film and Mended just failed it.

    To my total utter amazement I had one of the greatest ever cinematic experiences when watching Spectre. I can't even believe it's from the same director that gave us that SF mess. I had to view SP 13 times at the cinema I was that hooked.

    So now it happens, and that is truly amazing, strange, ironic, destiny that I have one Mendes movie at the Top of my ranking and one at the bottom.

    SPECTRE has dethroned GoldenEye after 20 years.

    Both movies are opposites in many ways. While SF is dreary, fun-less and humourless and takes itself way too seriously SP is positive, funny, witty, fantastically OTT and full of amazing iconic sequences.
    Even Craig's performances vary greatly. SF gives us one of the worst Bond performances ever and SP one of the very best, only TB comes to mind as being even better in that regard.

    How so opposite us Bond fan can be, you swap them round and that's my opinion, it's good you loved it so much I guess.

    I suppose to have 3 Bond films I enjoy I should be grateful, I thought that maybe to have 4 would be nice but I lived through the period from 1995 - 2002 and that was excrutiating at times so I'm sure I'll survive.

    Actually we should be glad tastes and opinions can be that different.

    I'm not sure I understand, there are only 3 Bond movies you enjoy? Or did you mean CR-QOS-SF?
    You certainly like something pre-GE?
  • dominicgreenedominicgreene The Eternal QOS Defender
    Posts: 1,756
    I can absolutely understand that some people will have both Mendes outings at the bottom. It seems logical at first sight.
    SF is a bloody shambles of a film and Mended just failed it.

    To my total utter amazement I had one of the greatest ever cinematic experiences when watching Spectre. I can't even believe it's from the same director that gave us that SF mess. I had to view SP 13 times at the cinema I was that hooked.

    So now it happens, and that is truly amazing, strange, ironic, destiny that I have one Mendes movie at the Top of my ranking and one at the bottom.

    SPECTRE has dethroned GoldenEye after 20 years.

    Both movies are opposites in many ways. While SF is dreary, fun-less and humourless and takes itself way too seriously SP is positive, funny, witty, fantastically OTT and full of amazing iconic sequences.
    Even Craig's performances vary greatly. SF gives us one of the worst Bond performances ever and SP one of the very best, only TB comes to mind as being even better in that regard.


    Funny, I completely feel the opposite way. SF had me in awe the whole way through the movie on my first viewing, hell even M's death had my emotions at the stake and I admit I did get emotional at that part -- which is extremely difficult to achieve, let alone a Bond film.

    Spectre on the other hand didn't give me that sense that I could relate to Bond. That Bond was in any position I could relate to in my life. There was no longing for resurrection anywhere in the film.
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