No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489

    @Creasy47, by that point acting will be outsourced to crazy life-like CGI models, so we can just have a computer created Sean Connery replace any other actors as Bond instead for the rest of our days. There could even be settings at each movie theater in the future that would allow you to customize what Bond actor you want in the role for every film. The dialogue and actions Bond makes in the film would stay the same, but computers would've already created a way for each of the Bonds to be the star of the movie based on preference, and their voices and likenesses would carry over perfectly. You could watch Brosnan in the film, I could watch Sean, @DaltonCraig007 could see Roger. This is the future!

    I already created that. In a thread here. Sure, it is all in your imagination so far, but you know what they say about quantum physics.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    As for the score, it wasn't an accident that the score of SF became the first Oscar nominated Bond score since TSWLM.

    Sorry, but what a load of crap. A Bond soundtrack that doesn't feature different instrumental versions of the theme song should not be nominated. That is an insult on Bond music and on what Barry achieved in all of soundtracks he composed for Bond. And that man was not nominated once for his Bond work. The academy should present John Barry a public apology and retroactively cancel Newman's nomination for SF.

    I say this as someone who enjoyed SF's soundtrack, but let's be realistic. Barry not only created 11 unique soundtracks, but he worked his ass off composing new arrangements of the Bond theme, and weaved each film's respective theme song thanks to several different versions in the soundtracks.

    Absolutely, @DaltonCraig007. Newman cannot be defended. I get the feeling that he had a lot of other film compositions he was balancing when he worked with Mendes on these films, especially during SP, and so to fill in corners he just reused uninspired music from SF over again. The music does its job, but never makes you feel anything like Barry's music always did. You could feel the notes going through you every time, like auditory ecstasy. I like Tennyson's Ulysses track, but outside of that nothing he's done has come within a country mile of Barry's lesser scores, which are still better than many people's best efforts besides.

    It's a shame Barry was never given the accolades he deserved, but he had the respect of his colleagues and helped bring the longest running franchise of all time to iconic levels, so stuff the rest of it. He'll be talked about by us and cinema lovers beyond forever, while Newman will have to do his best to avoid being a footnote in some respects, despite his cute little golden men.

    Apparently EON weren't a big fan of Newman either, if the reports of tensions during production were to be believed.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    I didn't know there was tension between EoN and Newman during SP?

    I still have the opinion that there was tension among all involved.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    Arnold needs to return. Both Broccoli and Arnold were at a Bond event recently, and I'm sure the conversation of him returning came up between the two.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    jake24 wrote: »
    Arnold needs to return. Both Broccoli and Arnold were at a Bond event recently, and I'm sure the conversation of him returning came up between the two.

    I do hope so. Arnold's return would keep me optimistic with the music department, that's for sure.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    jake24 wrote: »
    Arnold needs to return. Both Broccoli and Arnold were at a Bond event recently, and I'm sure the conversation of him returning came up between the two.

    I do hope so. Arnold's return would keep me optimistic with the music department, that's for sure.
    @Creasy47 pair Arnold with Denis Villeneuve and we've got ourselves one hell of a film. Oh, and replace Purvis and Wade.
  • jake24 wrote: »
    Arnold needs to return. Both Broccoli and Arnold were at a Bond event recently, and I'm sure the conversation of him returning came up between the two.

    Arnold has always been a supporter of the series and has always voiced his interest in doing more films. Unless we have another instance of a director insisting they bring their own composer in, I am confident (and relieved) Arnold will be writing the music for Bond 25.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I'd love for Arnold to return. He got the Bond sound, and showed what he could really do, especially in CR and QoS, making him the perfect choice to close out the Craig era.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Whether you like Arnold or not, You have to respect his love and care for the Bond sound and John Barry's work. His scores have been great. He took the Bond sound Barry established and modernized it, putting his own stamp on it. I know some here don't like electronica but when done right, It works wonders. But as of recently, Arnold seems to have dropped that almost altogether. I'd love to have him back. He knows how to compose memorable themes.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    When I watched DAD earlier today I realised how the movie profits heavily from the score which is fantastic.

    Imagine Arnold had done the score for SF and SP.

    SF especially could have been elevated to a whole different level.

    Newman is the biggest mistake that EON ever made.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    I'd love for Arnold to return. He got the Bond sound, and showed what he could really do, especially in CR and QoS, making him the perfect choice to close out the Craig era.

    Especially if Chris Cornell comes back to the theme song.

  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited September 2016 Posts: 10,591
    Murdock wrote: »
    Whether you like Arnold or not, You have to respect his love and care for the Bond sound and John Barry's work. His scores have been great. He took the Bond sound Barry established and modernized it, putting his own stamp on it. I know some here don't like electronica but when done right, It works wonders. But as of recently, Arnold seems to have dropped that almost altogether. I'd love to have him back. He knows how to compose memorable themes.
    The whole "electronica" aspect was executed perfectly in DAD, IMO. That film had an incredibly rich sound.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    jake24 wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    jake24 wrote: »
    Arnold needs to return. Both Broccoli and Arnold were at a Bond event recently, and I'm sure the conversation of him returning came up between the two.

    I do hope so. Arnold's return would keep me optimistic with the music department, that's for sure.
    @Creasy47 pair Arnold with Denis Villeneuve and we've got ourselves one hell of a film. Oh, and replace Purvis and Wade.

    What's even better about that pairing is the inevitability that Deakins would return, as well, since he typically works with Villeneuve. I'm excited to see just how beautiful 'Blade Runner 2' is going to look with both of them on board.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    edited September 2016 Posts: 16,351
    When I watched DAD earlier today I realised how the movie profits heavily from the score which is fantastic.

    Imagine Arnold had done the score for SF and SP.

    SF especially could have been elevated to a whole different level.

    Newman is the biggest mistake that EON ever made.


    Agreed 100%.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited September 2016 Posts: 28,694
    royale65 wrote: »
    I'd love for Arnold to return. He got the Bond sound, and showed what he could really do, especially in CR and QoS, making him the perfect choice to close out the Craig era.

    Especially if Chris Cornell comes back to the theme song.

    @royale65, I would actually love for "You Know My Name" to play during the credit's of Craig's last Bond film. It'd be the perfect tribute to the era his song kicked off, and to say quite simply of Dan that, "you know this man's name now, he's made history with this character."
    When I watched DAD earlier today I realised how the movie profits heavily from the score which is fantastic.

    Imagine Arnold had done the score for SF and SP.

    SF especially could have been elevated to a whole different level.

    Newman is the biggest mistake that EON ever made.

    @BondJasonBond006, one of the things I actually like most about SP is that it doesn't focus on score in moments of character drama where some composers would try to fit in dramatic music. I really appreciate how quiet a movie SP is at times, and how the score fades away at key moments to really let the atmosphere and ambient sounds of the scenes to take precedence. The Rome SPECTRE meeting is beautiful in this way, as is the Hinx fight, where you hear all the crunches, smashes, and sweeps of wind as Bond and the baddie brawl in the carriage, sans score. Pure, intense atmosphere.

    In many ways, I thank Newman for being so creatively barren with his score for this film, as it paved the way for what I feel is an interesting approach to using sound in a blockbuster that relies more on the absence of sound than a booming score and walls of sound that kick up at each moment of tension.

    But that's just me. ;)
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    I love the DAD soundtrack, because whenever I listen to it, I try to imagine the recording with Arnold visibly enjoying himself with all the techno elements and the Bond theme every 5 minutes (preferable to seeing Mendes dancing around after a huge explosion).
  • royale65 wrote: »
    I'd love for Arnold to return. He got the Bond sound, and showed what he could really do, especially in CR and QoS, making him the perfect choice to close out the Craig era.

    Especially if Chris Cornell comes back to the theme song.

    @royale65, I would actually love for "You Know My Name" to play during the credit's of Craig's last Bond film. It'd be the perfect tribute to the era his song kicked off, and to say quite simply of Dan that, "you know this man's name now, he's made history with this character."
    When I watched DAD earlier today I realised how the movie profits heavily from the score which is fantastic.

    Imagine Arnold had done the score for SF and SP.

    SF especially could have been elevated to a whole different level.

    Newman is the biggest mistake that EON ever made.

    @BondJasonBond006, one of the things I actually like most about SP is that it doesn't focus on score in moments of character drama where some composers would try to fit in dramatic music. I really appreciate how quiet a movie SP is at times, and how the score fades away at key moments to really let the atmosphere and ambient sounds of the scenes to take precedence. The Rome SPECTRE meeting is beautiful in this way, as is the Hinx fight, where you hear all the crunches, smashes, and sweeps of wind as Bond and the baddie brawl in the carriage, sans score. Pure, intense atmosphere.

    In many ways, I thank Newman for being so creatively barren with his score for this film, as it paved the way for what I feel is an interesting approach to using sound in a blockbuster that relies more on the absence of sound than a booming score and walls of sound that kick up at each moment of tension.

    But that's just me. ;)

    That's an interesting take on the music of Spectre there, @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7. Now, one might say praising the "invisibility" of the music is just a way to excuse its blandness and sheer dearth of creativity (particularly when you take into account the droning action music and lifted Skyfall sections) ;), but as I'm on the verge of rewatching Spectre for the first time since seeing it in theaters, I'll take into account what you suggest here and see if I can agree.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    When I watched DAD earlier today I realised how the movie profits heavily from the score which is fantastic.

    Imagine Arnold had done the score for SF and SP.

    SF especially could have been elevated to a whole different level.

    Newman is the biggest mistake that EON ever made.

    @BondJasonBond006, one of the things I actually like most about SP is that it doesn't focus on score in moments of character drama where some composers would try to fit in dramatic music. I really appreciate how quiet a movie SP is at times, and how the score fades away at key moments to really let the atmosphere and ambient sounds of the scenes to take precedence. The Rome SPECTRE meeting is beautiful in this way, as is the Hinx fight, where you hear all the crunches, smashes, and sweeps of wind as Bond and the baddie brawl in the carriage, sans score. Pure, intense atmosphere.

    In many ways, I thank Newman for being so creatively barren with his score for this film, as it paved the way for what I feel is an interesting approach to using sound in a blockbuster that relies more on the absence of sound than a booming score and walls of sound that kick up at each moment of tension.

    But that's just me. ;)

    Actually the score in SP doesn't bother me much. The reason is what you described. So you are spot on as always.

    The problem only is, that "doesn't bother me much" is just not the same as "is freaking spectacular" what always applies to Arnold or of course the one and only John Barry.
  • edited September 2016 Posts: 157
    I honestly think people are not ready yet for another....reboot. Look what happened to "Batman vs. Superman". Zack Snyder tried to copy-paste the first half of his film by having Christopher Nolan in mind. It fell flat.

    Me too. I'm not prepared for another Bond reboot! For once, I'd like to see a Blofeld story with the Garden of Death conclusion.

    My wishful thinking is that they expand the franchise into a Cinematic Universe, with stand-alone films about Felix Leiter and some of the villains (a Blofeld centred movie or a Goldfinger one, building momentum to next Bond film). It would fill the void between Bond films.

    And a film about other 00's with Bond making a cameo. Then we could have a gay 00, a female agent and a black one, as well.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    I'm not a fan of barren scores. I like something with themes that will make you hum for years to come. Something to stand out. Bond scores have always been Bold and memorable. Even the non Barry and Arnold scores. As I've said before. Bond music is a character in itself that goes on the journey with Bond to give us that flavor of the parts of the world he's in. When it's reduced to sonic wallpaper it's just meaningless and boring.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Murdock wrote: »
    I'm not a fan of barren scores. I like something with themes that will make you hum for years to come. Something to stand out. Bond scores have always been Bold and memorable. Even the non Barry and Arnold scores. As I've said before. Bond music is a character in itself that goes on the journey with Bond to give us that flavor of the parts of the world he's in. When it's reduced to sonic wallpaper it's just meaningless and boring.
    Pretty much my feelings towards the Thomas Newman scores.
  • I've been just reading the forum for months. Im under the impression, as well as everyone else in the world, that Craig is currently done (and can come back). I've found 2 pieces from 3-4 years ago indicating otherwise.... I know things change.

    This site reported he had 2 more AFTER Skyfall (so Bond 25 is his last). WILL STAR IN AT LEAST 5
    https://www.mi6-hq.com/sections/articles/craig_five_bond_movies_deal.php3


    Also, multiple reports of Michael Wilson wanting him to do 8...
    http://www.nme.com/filmandtv/news/daniel-craig-to-become-longest-serving-james-bond/255888 [/quote]

    That's why you should be careful evaluating what Michael G. Wilson says. Longer pauses between Bond movies (which MGW wants) work against Craig doing eight Bond films.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117

    @BondJasonBond006, one of the things I actually like most about SP is that it doesn't focus on score in moments of character drama where some composers would try to fit in dramatic music. I really appreciate how quiet a movie SP is at times, and how the score fades away at key moments to really let the atmosphere and ambient sounds of the scenes to take precedence. The Rome SPECTRE meeting is beautiful in this way, as is the Hinx fight, where you hear all the crunches, smashes, and sweeps of wind as Bond and the baddie brawl in the carriage, sans score. Pure, intense atmosphere.

    I don't think you can really give credit for him not putting scoring certain scenes can you? Surely that is a directorial decision? Mendes says 'I want the Hinx fight to have no music so we hear and feel every punch' and so there's no music.
    In many ways, I thank Newman for being so creatively barren with his score for this film

    'Creatively barren'. That's an eloquent turn of phrase. I'd have said 'lazy rehash of SF' myself but then I'm no poet.

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @Some_Kind_Of_Hero, I think SP is a great example of a film that is crafted beautifully in visuals and audio, working perfectly together in tandem. Some of my favorite moments in the film are those where the score leaves and lets the characters and their environment captivate the audience naturally.

    The Rome meeting allows you to hear all the coughing and anxious ticks of all the SPECTRE members, the shuffling of their chairs as they jump up to meet Blofeld's command, the sound of the villain's own footsteps booming as he is escorted to his seat, and then the sound of Blofeld's own ominous whispers to his agents that feel unsettling to me in the purest way. There's something so beautifully "off" with that scene and how easily it makes me feel like Bond, out of sorts, uncomfortable and discombobulated while stumbling upon a cult like conspiracy with immense worldwide control.

    And of course in the Hinx fight example, using a score in this instance wouldn't have been effective for me, personally. I'd have hated for a score to boom in as each punch was thrown, as it would've felt too overblown, as if the movie was making too much of an effort to make me artificially feel tension. In the film as we have it, Mendes and his team cut out the score and as a result, we get nothing but the pure, unbridled tension of Bond, Hinx and the atmosphere they maneuver inside. The walls of the carriage creak and snap as Bond is tossed into and through those barriers, the glass of mirrors shatter and dance with crunchy sound as the pair tussle in that claustrophobic space, and the dinner plates and pans clang and ping as they are thrown around in disarray and used as weapons. The small compartment of the carriage set allows all of this great sound to take over and reach directly to your eardrums unfettered by a score, and it's so thrilling to hear just those noises as Bond and Hinx fight, making it feel all the more real to the eye. The first time I watched it I was in awe of how intense it felt, and the movie almost tricked me into thinking Bond was a goner near the end.

    I know many here want every Bond film to use the theme frequently and really pack in the score with lots of musical energy, and I get that, but this film proves to me the value of letting sound outside the score to take precedence at salient times. There's an artfulness to the way sound is used in SP that makes it feel a part of the cinematic tradition of inventiveness. It's a blockbuster, but one that is crafted with hands that really know how to innovate with visuals and audio to make each scene feel like a completely new experience through just the scenes atmosphere, and I love that. SP feels like a 70s influenced film to me at times because of these aspects of its scenes and how these elements of its production were used.

    @Some_Kind_Of_Hero, I'm very interested to see if you agree with me on the use of sound in SP once you watch it, so be sure to share your thoughts with me when you've revisited it. I think you'll gain a lot of mileage looking at SP as a film with moments of surprising quiet to it, where character and character interaction drive the heart of the movie, where a big focus is on family and specifically fatherhood. I've done a few posts on the themes I see in SP, if you'd be interested to read those. I love talking about this film, and I like to see different impressions on just what its core themes may be.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2016 Posts: 23,883
    I think that the best thing Newman did in SP (outside of Los Muertos Vivos Estan which has an excellent incorporation of the Bond theme with some Latin sounds) was not scoring the Hinx fight until the very end, when it seemed like Bond was toast. Then he gave us something very ominous and grave sounding, and it was particularly impactful as a result of the lack of score earlier. It reminded me very much of what Sera did with the GE fight on the satellite dish.

    The score is not the worst part of this film for me. I thought it fit in nicely with what was on the screen, but I admit that SF seemed much fresher.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    royale65 wrote: »
    I'd love for Arnold to return. He got the Bond sound, and showed what he could really do, especially in CR and QoS, making him the perfect choice to close out the Craig era.

    Especially if Chris Cornell comes back to the theme song.

    @royale65, I would actually love for "You Know My Name" to play during the credit's of Craig's last Bond film. It'd be the perfect tribute to the era his song kicked off, and to say quite simply of Dan that, "you know this man's name now, he's made history with this character."
    When I watched DAD earlier today I realised how the movie profits heavily from the score which is fantastic.

    Imagine Arnold had done the score for SF and SP.

    SF especially could have been elevated to a whole different level.

    Newman is the biggest mistake that EON ever made.

    @BondJasonBond006, one of the things I actually like most about SP is that it doesn't focus on score in moments of character drama where some composers would try to fit in dramatic music. I really appreciate how quiet a movie SP is at times, and how the score fades away at key moments to really let the atmosphere and ambient sounds of the scenes to take precedence. The Rome SPECTRE meeting is beautiful in this way, as is the Hinx fight, where you hear all the crunches, smashes, and sweeps of wind as Bond and the baddie brawl in the carriage, sans score. Pure, intense atmosphere.

    In many ways, I thank Newman for being so creatively barren with his score for this film, as it paved the way for what I feel is an interesting approach to using sound in a blockbuster that relies more on the absence of sound than a booming score and walls of sound that kick up at each moment of tension.

    But that's just me. ;)

    I have to agree regarding Newman. I enjoyed his SP considerably more than his SF effort although I liked both. Newman gets an unfair rap in my opinion for SP for being just a rehash of his SP score. He did reuse some themes especially in the PTS and his detractors tuned out pretty much after that.

    Now I like Arnold too.. and appreciate his fandom of the series so don't attack me for liking both.

    I don't like the electronic sound though.. I mean I prefer actual instruments and musicians not button pushers.

    Having said that I still kinda want a new sound. There are plenty talented artists out there.

  • When I watched DAD earlier today I realised how the movie profits heavily from the score which is fantastic.

    Imagine Arnold had done the score for SF and SP.

    SF especially could have been elevated to a whole different level.

    Newman is the biggest mistake that EON ever made.

    I found David Arnold's score for DAD just a load of tech noise. Very tiresome to listen at.

    My choice for a composer would be Daniel Pemberton or Henry Jackman. There's way more melody in their compositions.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    mcdonbb wrote: »

    I don't like the electronic sound though.. I mean I prefer actual instruments and musicians not button pushers.

    Having said that I still kinda want a new sound. There are plenty talented artists out there.
    Me too. It's my #1 preference for B25. I can even live with Turner (@bondsum will no doubt be reassured to learn), but I really would like a new sound as well.
  • Posts: 16,169
    I also prefer a nice big orchestra sound for Bond as opposed to digital tech. Bond music should sound huge and distinctive. I'd say 90% or more of us on this board could easily identify which Barry soundtrack any particular cue is from. Each film had a distinct sound. I'd like B25 to have that.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694

    @BondJasonBond006, one of the things I actually like most about SP is that it doesn't focus on score in moments of character drama where some composers would try to fit in dramatic music. I really appreciate how quiet a movie SP is at times, and how the score fades away at key moments to really let the atmosphere and ambient sounds of the scenes to take precedence. The Rome SPECTRE meeting is beautiful in this way, as is the Hinx fight, where you hear all the crunches, smashes, and sweeps of wind as Bond and the baddie brawl in the carriage, sans score. Pure, intense atmosphere.

    I don't think you can really give credit for him not putting scoring certain scenes can you? Surely that is a directorial decision? Mendes says 'I want the Hinx fight to have no music so we hear and feel every punch' and so there's no music.
    In many ways, I thank Newman for being so creatively barren with his score for this film

    'Creatively barren'. That's an eloquent turn of phrase. I'd have said 'lazy rehash of SF' myself but then I'm no poet.

    @TheWizardOfIce, those choices in scoring I would attribute to Mendes' direction, yes, and not any choice Newman made. I read my post back and at the start it did sound like I was making Newman seem like he was the creative mind behind that, so sorry for that confusion in wording. What I meant was I think many composers working on a blockbuster film would likely want to really punch up the action with a score in scenes of action or tension, but I'm glad Mendes and his team chose to go a different route and didn't advise on the use of music in a lot of what I see as pivotal scenes, including the Rome meeting and Hinx fight, as detailed. I love the sound design in the movie, and I can't image those scenes or others like it, including even the more intimate Moroccan hotel scenes, featuring a score with greater presence.

    Sorry for the confusion on my part.
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