No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • Posts: 2,081
    bondjames wrote: »
    Red_Snow wrote: »
    Paul Haggis: time is right for black James Bond

    The time is right for a black James Bond, and Eon producer Barbara Broccoli might be brave enough to hire one, said writer/director Paul Haggis, kicking off Friday’s Script to Screen Summit presented by Winston Baker here at Toronto International Film Festival (Sept 8-18).

    Haggis, who wrote the screenplays for Casino Royale and Quantum Of Solace, noted he had no connection to Bond anymore but he said “I would go for a black Bond.

    “Barbara [Broccoli] is really brave, and so is Michael [G Wilson], I think she might do it. “ He added that Broccoli already proved her bravery “and took a lot of heat” in hiring Daniel Craig as the first blond Bond. “She just didn’t care, she’s very brave, she’s wonderful.
    That's an incredible piece of arse-kissing. Does he want back in? I wouldn't mind tbh, despite his 'Vesper having a child' tangent for QoS.

    How? Why couldn't it just be his honest opinion? I don't find it hard to believe he might think that about her, so he might as well say so - without any ulterior motives. I thought it was a simple compliment. What makes you think it's bs and he's being insincere? (That's basically what you're saying.)
  • Posts: 11,425
    When I watched DAD earlier today I realised how the movie profits heavily from the score which is fantastic.

    Imagine Arnold had done the score for SF and SP.

    SF especially could have been elevated to a whole different level.

    Newman is the biggest mistake that EON ever made.

    @BondJasonBond006, one of the things I actually like most about SP is that it doesn't focus on score in moments of character drama where some composers would try to fit in dramatic music. I really appreciate how quiet a movie SP is at times, and how the score fades away at key moments to really let the atmosphere and ambient sounds of the scenes to take precedence. The Rome SPECTRE meeting is beautiful in this way, as is the Hinx fight, where you hear all the crunches, smashes, and sweeps of wind as Bond and the baddie brawl in the carriage, sans score. Pure, intense atmosphere.

    In many ways, I thank Newman for being so creatively barren with his score for this film, as it paved the way for what I feel is an interesting approach to using sound in a blockbuster that relies more on the absence of sound than a booming score and walls of sound that kick up at each moment of tension.

    But that's just me. ;)

    Actually the score in SP doesn't bother me much. The reason is what you described. So you are spot on as always.

    The problem only is, that "doesn't bother me much" is just not the same as "is freaking spectacular" what always applies to Arnold or of course the one and only John Barry.

    Agreed. The SF score is noticeably poor. The only other score l can say that about is GE, which is the worst Bomd score by far.


    With SP you simply don't notice it.


  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Even though many of the cues (and I mean many) have been recycled from SF for SP, in the latter Newman did fit some of the cues in for a better portrayal. For example, I did like the bit where Bond gives Sciarra a foot chase, and the first cue in the helicopter... Then, it kinda goes Bourne (which I don't like) until the brass announces the Bond theme explosion and puts the whole thing back on track.
  • Well, @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7, I rewatched Spectre just now and I'm afraid I don't share your enthusiasm for the film's sound design. If anything, I find Spectre to be over-scored with Newman's subdued writing. There are sections (inside White's place, for instance, or during the torture scene) where I thought perfect silence might have better suited the film than Newman's characteristic jangling suspense music or ambient pulsing.

    As for the way silence is used during the Spectre meeting scene, I can't say I'm the biggest fan of this particular scene, but really I think that's more a matter of how the scene was filmed to begin with. Compare the way the sound and editing work to build tension during the Spectre meeting scene in Thunderball to the way the sound and editing are used in the Spectre meeting scene in Spectre. There's just no comparing the two. This may just be me, or maybe it's due to the way the tropes have been overplayed in Austin Powers and everywhere else (there's even a Rosa Klebb/Frau Farbissina type in there), but I find Spectre's scene (Waltz's whisperings included) to have an almost comedic effect.

    As for the train fight, I agree silence was a good choice. The fight certainly follows in the footsteps of Bond vs. Grant, vs. Odd Job, vs. the Rock's grandfather, vs. Tee Hee, vs. Jaws on the train, vs. Xenia in the spa, vs. Trevelyn. They absolutely made the correct decision there, but it wasn't particularly groundbreaking. And actually, as I was paying close attention to the way sound is used, why does the danger music begin when they enter the last compartment of the train? Because the creative team wants to signal in advance that this is where we're supposed to scoot to the edge of our seats? (To quote Bond himself from later in the film, "This is where we're supposed to be impressed.") Wouldn't a better place to initiate the danger music be when Hinx slides open the outer door, actually introducing a new element of danger to the fight? I understand this is being pretty analytical of me, but then, I did approach this viewing with an analytical ear toward how sound is being used, and there appears to be no real creative or narrative logic as to why the music begins where it does.

    What did really stand out to me during this viewing is just how much music was lifted from Skyfall throughout the first half of the film in particular. Apart from “Los Muertos Vivos Estan” and “Donna Lucia” we don’t get any really original Spectre score until Madeleine shows up. (Incidentally, the 8-note theme Newman wrote for Madeleine, which shows up during the L’Americain scene and in a few other places, is the one part of the score that I really like.)

    Don't get me wrong here—apart from Newman's score being bland as bland can be—I'm on no crusade against the sound design of Spectre; I just find nothing exceptional about it. Particularly in comparison with how sound is used throughout the rest of the series. Still, I'd be interested in reading a detailed breakdown of sound design in Spectre from your point-of-view (or anyone else's) to see where others are coming from. We all view these films differently and form our own opinions.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    Newman isn't responsible for the sound design is he? The footsteps, punch sounds etc?

    @some_kind_of_hero I don't think the board room scene was supposed to be played deadly serious. It had a slight quirkiness to it not unlike the way Waltz acts
  • No, the composer has nothing directly to do with the sound effects. I suppose I should have said "soundscape" rather than "sound design" to describe the overall combined effect of sound effects and music within the film, because you're correct, "sound design" technically refers just to the sound effects. In my last post, please consider "sound design" to refer to anything audible in the film that isn't dialogue or a roaring lion. ;)

    You may well be right that they were going for something quirkier with the meeting scene and intended the drawn out silence and Blofeld's whisperings to have the comedic effect I picked up on. If that's really what they were going for, then I think they could have pushed that a bit further.
  • Posts: 1,296
    I don't like Arnold to return but Skyfall and Spectre would be much better with proper, cohesive scores. Skyfall is like 3 different scores mixed togehter and we all know about Spectre already.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Yes, I know that I really like it. I want Newman back.
  • Posts: 1,296
    No. :)
  • Posts: 11,425
    I don't particularly want Arnold back but his last two Bond scores were better than Newman's
  • Posts: 1,296
    Abel Korzeniowski please.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    What has he done?
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    As for the score, it wasn't an accident that the score of SF became the first Oscar nominated Bond score since TSWLM.

    Sorry, but what a load of crap. A Bond soundtrack that doesn't feature different instrumental versions of the theme song should not be nominated. That is an insult on Bond music and on what Barry achieved in all of soundtracks he composed for Bond. And that man was not nominated once for his Bond work. The academy should present John Barry a public apology and retroactively cancel Newman's nomination for SF.

    I say this as someone who enjoyed SF's soundtrack, but let's be realistic. Barry not only created 11 unique soundtracks, but he worked his ass off composing new arrangements of the Bond theme, and weaved each film's respective theme song thanks to several different versions in the soundtracks.

    POST OF THE WEEK.
  • edited September 2016 Posts: 11,425
    Problem is Barry usually helped composed the theme song so had some ownership and control over it. We rarely see that now - Arnold achieved it once with CR and YKMN.

    Not sure Adele was that keen on sharing composing credits with Newman, which just left him to integrate her music into his score. I do think a bigger man would have embraced the challenge, but you can se where Newman is coming from in refusing to incorporate the theme. In the end one of his team arranged the small snippet of theme in the casino arrival sequence. The big man himself was 'too busy'.

    Hans Zimmer by contrast is famous for being a keen collaborator. He would have jumped at the chance.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    I'd pick anyone but Hans Zimmer to do the score. All of his work are painful to listen to, and the sounds are mediocre at best. I don't know why does he get praise, and over what he does it is beyond me, to be honest.
  • Posts: 1,296
    What has he done?
    A Single Man, W.E, Penny Dreadful, others I can't recall now, Copernicus' Star is great orchestral music, shows off his versatility, he can do action too, umm none of the best is on youutbe though
  • Getafix wrote: »
    Problem is Barry usually helped composed the theme song so had some ownership and control over it. We rarely see that now - Arnold achieved it once with CR and YKMN.

    Just to point out, Arnold also wrote The World Is Not Enough and incorporated that theme into the score. Similarly, Surrender was originally intended to be TND's title song and that theme appears throughout the score. I also read he had come up with a theme for DAD's song before being told Madonna was doing it independently, and as Arnold's post-QOS "No Good About Goodbye" with Bassey features a theme that was used heavily in the film, I'll bet that's what his title song would have sounded like had duties not gone to White and Keys.
  • dominicgreenedominicgreene The Eternal QOS Defender
    Posts: 1,756
    I'd pick anyone but Hans Zimmer to do the score. All of his work are painful to listen to, and the sounds are mediocre at best. I don't know why does he get praise, and over what he does it is beyond me, to be honest.

    Never listened to the interstellar soundtrack?
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    I'd pick anyone but Hans Zimmer to do the score. All of his work are painful to listen to, and the sounds are mediocre at best. I don't know why does he get praise, and over what he does it is beyond me, to be honest.

    Never listened to the interstellar soundtrack?
    Do I need to? His previous works are enough for me to submit judgment.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Tuulia wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Red_Snow wrote: »
    Paul Haggis: time is right for black James Bond

    The time is right for a black James Bond, and Eon producer Barbara Broccoli might be brave enough to hire one, said writer/director Paul Haggis, kicking off Friday’s Script to Screen Summit presented by Winston Baker here at Toronto International Film Festival (Sept 8-18).

    Haggis, who wrote the screenplays for Casino Royale and Quantum Of Solace, noted he had no connection to Bond anymore but he said “I would go for a black Bond.

    “Barbara [Broccoli] is really brave, and so is Michael [G Wilson], I think she might do it. “ He added that Broccoli already proved her bravery “and took a lot of heat” in hiring Daniel Craig as the first blond Bond. “She just didn’t care, she’s very brave, she’s wonderful.
    That's an incredible piece of arse-kissing. Does he want back in? I wouldn't mind tbh, despite his 'Vesper having a child' tangent for QoS.

    How? Why couldn't it just be his honest opinion? I don't find it hard to believe he might think that about her, so he might as well say so - without any ulterior motives. I thought it was a simple compliment. What makes you think it's bs and he's being insincere? (That's basically what you're saying.)
    Sometimes my sense of playfulness can be misunderstood here. This appears to be one of those instances. Just keeping the thread moving along with a little provocation @Tuulia. I expected a response eventually and you took the bait. No need to take things so seriously. I don't know Haggis and for all I know he was being extremely sincere. I'd like him back on Bond.
  • edited September 2016 Posts: 11,119
    bondjames wrote: »
    mcdonbb wrote: »

    I don't like the electronic sound though.. I mean I prefer actual instruments and musicians not button pushers.

    Having said that I still kinda want a new sound. There are plenty talented artists out there.
    Me too. It's my #1 preference for B25. I can even live with Turner (@bondsum will no doubt be reassured to learn), but I really would like a new sound as well.

    Both Thomas Newman and David Arnold do it. But Newman does it in a considerably measured and nuanced way. He lets the electronic sound become part of the emotions in the movie. David Arnold's electronic sound in DAD was in comparison really tiresome to listen at. Just a lot of noise to over-enhance already unoriginal soulless action sequences.

    If people really want a true instrumental sound? A sound that's really reminiscent of -let's say- John Barry or Jerry Goldsmith? Then people really should listen to the score of "The Man From UNCLE". This instrumental is truly amazing, has a rich melody, and uses traditional Hungarian instruments like the cimbalom and at some occasions the forgotten sound of xylophones. It even has a slight "The Persuaders" vibe to it:



    Or this one, with some nice clavesimbel arrangements, an "OHMSS"-tuned bass guitar and a lovely German flute to enhance the 'spy sound':




    So therefore I would love to see Daniel Pemberton doing the Bond #25 score. Remember, after "The Man From UNCLE" Pemberton is a hot-sought item. He recently did the score for "Steve Jobs". And perhaps I am exaggerating a bit, but I really think we have found the new John Barry:


  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    Daniel Pemberton gets a big yes from me, his music to the excellent BBC spy series The Game starring Bond hopeful Tom Hughes is proof enough and his score for The Counsellor was easily the best thing about that car crash of a film.

    Also Abel Korzeniowski would be good, his Penny Dreadful score is lush, atmospheric, emotional and melodic.

    Newman needs to be given the boot, I didn't mind Skyfall but SPECTRE was recycled monotony.

    I'm not against Arnold returning his QOS score was his best yet and I'd hope he would approach it with something to prove once again having been away from the job for over 8 years or so now but new blood would be a more exciting prospect.
  • edited September 2016 Posts: 11,119
    Shardlake wrote: »
    Daniel Pemberton gets a big yes from me, his music to the excellent BBC spy series The Game starring Bond hopeful Tom Hughes is proof enough and his score for The Counsellor was easily the best thing about that car crash of a film.

    Also Abel Korzeniowski would be good, his Penny Dreadful score is lush, atmospheric, emotional and melodic.

    Newman needs to be given the boot, I didn't mind Skyfall but SPECTRE was recycled monotony.

    I'm not against Arnold returning his QOS score was his best yet and I'd hope he would approach it with something to prove once again having been away from the job for over 8 years or so now but new blood would be a more exciting prospect.

    Pemberton even can bring 'fun' and a totally feel-good vibe to his scores. This one puts a smile on your face :-). It even reminds me a bit of Jean-Michel Jarre. The way he builds it...is just truly magnificent. I doubt David Arnold can compose stuff like this:

  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Daniel Pemperton is on my short short list @Gustav_Graves
    You know how much I love the UNLCE soundtrack and especially his work for The Game.

    Still, my favourite remains Alexandre Desplat.

    It's almost as exciting to see who will do the next score as to who will play Bond.
  • Daniel Pemperton is on my short short list @Gustav_Graves
    You know how much I love the UNLCE soundtrack and especially his work for The Game.

    Still, my favourite remains Alexandre Desplat.

    It's almost as exciting to see who will do the next score as to who will play Bond.

    Have you heard the score for "Steve Jobs"?
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    I'll just drop this here:
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Pemberton is a very talented composer, no doubt. I do have a criticism of him though. Despite the incredible melodies that he is capable of, I find that his music sometimes overpowers the scene in question, doesn't properly reflect the mood of what is transpiring on the screen and finally can be a little repetitive in instances. If he can temper this going forward, then I think he has great potential to be a very good composer for Bond. He is very skilled in his craft.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    Getafix wrote: »
    Problem is Barry usually helped composed the theme song so had some ownership and control over it. We rarely see that now - Arnold achieved it once with CR and YKNM.

    Hasn't this been discussed to death?

    In TND Arnold wove Surrender pretty much everywhere in the score; the producers decided at the very last minute to use Crow's song at the beginning of the movie.

    In TWINE the song is quoted several times (e.g. Come in 007, your te is up; Show me the money; Christmas in Turkey)

    DAD's melody fitted only the party scene, so that's the only time the theme is woven into the score (but it was)

    YKMN was heavily featured in CR.

    QoS includes Another Way To Die in at least 4 tracks (Time to get out; Greene and Camille; Pursuit at Port au Prince and Field Trip).

    Enough with Arnold's bashing.









  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    The main recurring theme in QoS is Shirley Bassey's "No Good About Goodbye", which Arnold co-wrote. Part of the melody from that song is featured in the track "The Bitch is Dead" from CR, before the song was even written.
  • bondjames wrote: »
    Pemberton is a very talented composer, no doubt. I do have a criticism of him though. Despite the incredible melodies that he is capable of, I find that his music sometimes overpowers the scene in question, doesn't properly reflect the mood of what is transpiring on the screen and finally can be a little repetitive in instances. If he can temper this going forward, then I think he has great potential to be a very good composer for Bond. He is very skilled in his craft.

    I think clear melodies always 'overpower' a bit, as opposed to more 'sound' and emotional tracks without clear melodies. I do think this was the very essence that made John Barry so big.

    Still, indeed, Pemberton is a relatively new and young composer. Thus resulting in perhaps overpowering some scenes. Yet, in "Steve Jobs" I found him top-notch.

    Who would you prefer then @BondJames? Thomas Newman or Daniel Pemberton?
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