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i go back and forth with this a lot - but it honestly would be no different than how Bond movies had ended for 40 years before Craig took over.. he got three films with a pretty solemn end to them, and never getting the girl - this time it ended on a reasonable high note, and he got the girl... people can infer any meaning behind what went on in SP...
1.) the only "i love you" came from Swann, we never hear James reciprocate that response... Tanya also told James she loved him in FRWL, she wasn't brought up in GF or any other subsequent film...
2.) Bond throwing away his Walther PPK - well, it was out of bullets and was pretty useless at the moment, what use was there to carry it around? he could always get a new one anyway...
3.) "I thought you had gone?" -Q .... Can be interpreted several ways, but the prevailing theory is that it's either "i thought you quit?" or "i thought you had gone - perhaps for the day, or on leave." ... we all know old school Bond was always in favor of some time off after each film ;).. this can be viewed as no different..
it's not a definitive cut and dry ending that says Bond did this or that - it was left ambiguous by Mendes for a reason..
1) Many have brought this up, and I agree. I don't think we're meant to believe that Bond is head over heels in love with Madeleine, and certainly not to Vesper levels. But Bond sees a way out that she is willing to give him, and I think he has the intent in that moment to see if he can move on. Because Madeleine grew up knowing what her own father was capable of and understands what it's like to deal with a man in the business Bond is in, I think he at least leaves with her in the knowledge that she could understand and accept his demons and past more than other women could ever hope to. In some ways, I think he's settling on Madeleine in the promise that she provides a window for him to leave the service before it's too late and he ends up like White, dying with regret and alone, ending his life as he lived it. As you say though, his feelings and what the ending means for the pair is more ambiguous. Is it a holiday or a full blown attempt on Bond's part to leave for good?
2) Bond empties the gun of bullets in front of Blofeld, so it was him symbolically saying, "I don't take orders from anyone anymore" as he begins to walk towards Madeleine.
3.) I absolutely agree that it's a more ambiguous ending than I expected, but I'm of the opinion that Bond is essentially out of the game at this point. He symbolically throws his gun into the Thames and really doesn't address Mallory beyond a look across the bridge. I think for the first time since Vesper he's seriously envisioning a more honest life for himself, and he's leaving to give that a try with Madeleine.
The difficulty in that kind of ending, however, is that, as viewers of the story and fans of Bond, we know these happy endings don't last long for him. The nature of story is conflict, and we know Bond's world will have to come crashing down post-SP if Dan returns to credibly get Bond back into service against a threat to please audiences, in this case a likely freed Blofeld and a return of SPECTRE. The annoyance and sticky nature of this situation is that the inevitable continuation of Bond facing Blofeld again makes him look quite foolish as a character for thinking he could get away with Madeleine and everything would be okay again, especially since he's tried and failed to do this maneuver before with similar results.
It's a difficult move to try and tell a last Bond story of sorts where they play with Bond leaving his 00 life behind for this very reason. Every time he attempts to make that change in his life and see something beyond the job, it goes wrong, he's left alone again and drawn right back to MI6 again like a moth to the flame.
What can only result in the inevitable continuation of SP's story is Bond having a moment where he says, "I should've known this wouldn't work," or "I don't know why I thought there was a chance at me living an honest life." As with Vesper before, the odds are stacked heavily against him and Madeleine at having a happy ending because of the necessity these films have as entertainment to give Bond conflicts to face as a 00. This then drives writers to make him a 00 again as quickly as possible, short changing and belittling the momentous choice he made to leave MI6 in SP just to deliver audiences a Bond back in his element with gadgets and guns galore to please the thirsty masses.
I'll admit, this is a hard situation to write Bond out of in many respects. The only way to do it credibly is to have Bond realize that his business with Blofeld can't end until he is dead-again, probably after he escapes-which will make Madeleine conflicted as she thought he was done with that work. A break will form between the pair as Bond realizes what he must do, and he goes back to MI6 for one last mission from M to get Blofeld and SPECTRE dead to rights, after the completion of which he's free to do what he wants. At the end when Bond is finished, he may go back to Madeleine in the hopes that she will now accept him since he now has nothing holding him back. Or, it could be a more ambiguous ending. Mallory could speak to Bond in his office after Blofeld has died, asking his agent if he plans on calling it quits or not. The film could finish with Bond at a crossroads, and cuts to black just as he's deliberating between driving to Madeleine or picking up his holster and going back to MI6. We end the film and the era not knowing what Bond is deciding, beyond the look of indecision in his eyes. I'm not a fan of this approach, but it could go that way credibly.
The novelty of Bond 25 with a Craig return will be that it will in all likelihood tell "the last Bond story" and for the first time attempt to actually conclude a Bond era with great finality for the first time in Bond history. All other eras just end, usually on a whimper. Here, EON have the chance to use Dan's Bond to tell a truly conclusive story where Bond contemplates what his future is without MI6 in it, and if he can move on from the only life he's ever known to do something else.
if this is the route we go though, then personally, i don't see anyway this ends without some kind of PTSD Hurt Locker-esque moment, where Bond feels trapped by the confines of normal living, but he's dealing with it - then something happens that draws him back into service, and he realizes that this IS his life, and normal isn't for him...
the trouble with doing a "last Bond story" for Daniel is that it has the ability to set an annoying precedence - and thats rebooting, and ending every arc with each new Bond actor.. that will get old and tiresome really fast... yes, the franchise has essentially done extremely soft reboots whenever a new actor takes over - but for 40 years, they did follow a general continuity, even if tonally they shifted between Sean, George, Rog, Dalts and Broz - we are all smart enough to know that they all played the same character, and that as one got older, someone new would take over..... so what now, when Dan's done - recast M, Moneypenny, Q, Tanner or whoever - and start all over again?.. then when that actor's done, recast everyone all over again?.... i would rather see Fiennes, Harris, Wishaw and Kinnear stick around post Craig and continue on with business like they used to, instead of giving each actor now moving forward their own isolated story arcs..
I want to see this. This series has thrived on variety and this reboot era has been a breath of fresh air so far. They have broken new ground and I hope they continue. Sure, they could be more "Bond" on things in the future but just be patient and give them time. They can do a soft reboot again after 25 and then do whatever they want. Going back to cliched, check-the-numbers Bond is not an option, IMO. They need to stay competitive.
Inception theme... imitation game theme... Dark Knight theme... Grand Budapest theme... Pirates of the Caribbean theme... Interstellars theme... the revenant? Some of these soundtracks better than what Barry has done.
Only for her to find out he is her long lost brother. From Langley.
There are a few retro examples I think, like Henry Jackman in "Kingsman" and Daniel Pemberton in "UNCLE". But despite that it's all the same. From "Furious 7" to "Mission: Impossible" (guys 'loving' Joe Kraemer need to wake up and listen carefully. He didn't compose ANY original hummable melody at all in "Rogue Nation". We should thank Lalo Shuffling!), from "Batman vs. Superman" to "Spy", from "Captain America" to "Taken". It's all the same.
Regarding Thomas Newnan? I can't stand the shitting over the man anymore. If there's someone who knew how to make emotions even more believable and compelling, then it was certainly him.
The Dark Knight's an obvious one, and I'll give you Pirates as it has traveled well and I can't even count the number of band marches I've heard scored to it. The others, however, wouldn't show up on lists near the likes of Ghostbusters theme, the Burton Batman scores, John Williams' work on Superman, Indy, Jaws, or Star Wars, or the scores for Psycho, Halloween, Back to the Future, the Ennio Morricone-scored classic Leone westerns, the Godfather films, etc.
It also doesn't help that 4/7 scores on that list you gave only come from one man in the form of Zimmer. Doesn't say much for creative variety these days. The only memorable sound from the Inception score people remember is the BRAMM, and it wasn't even Zimmer's idea. More and more music of his nowadays is also built around work of classical composers, which I think can be a shame for his own creativity as his work becomes more about him reinterpreting something someone else did than producing something truly his own. I used to be excited by every project he was working on, but that interest has been steadily dying since his work on the second Sherlock Holmes movie with Robert Downey and the Dark Knight Rises score ended.
Other scores I would add to the modern day list are James Horner's Titanic and maybe Braveheart, and of course John Williams' Harry Potter work (still has it), but I'm drawing a bit of a blank at much else at the moment that is truly iconic and worthy of standing next to the big themes of cinematic history. I'll still have to think on it a bit.
His style is very different to a Barry or a Goldsmith, but he is extremely competent at what he does, and that's why he is in demand.
And 'Last Samurai'
Yea, I don't agree with all the Zimmer slamming. If you want your big blockbuster to have a magnificent sound that accentuates the drama/action on screen then Zimmer usually delivers. It's the type of score best suited for the cinema where you should bombarded with sights and sounds.
Just my take.
I agree @mcdonbb, he nails the epic sound needed for mega blockbusters.
These are standouts too:
And of course, these, which are epic
You're absolutely right there. Although I didn't like the film at least Kingsman tries for an old school score and even though The Man From Uncle was a fun though pretty average film the final big stunt where Cavil (make the most of it Henry, that's as close as you're ever going to get son) skims the buggy over the surface of the lake is spectacularly scored in the finest Barry tradition.
Let's not start getting all cut up about poor Thomas Newman. He's the one who thought he could take the piss so he needs to take the consequences.
SF was a decent enough (if far from my favourite) score and there are good moments in SP (power sliding past the Vatican, Maddie's theme, when they are approaching the crater) but this is outweighed by the annoying (the 'cute' use of the Bond theme when Bond takes off his mask in the PTS - trying so hard to be cool but it's appallingly naff. Same goes for MP's 'cheekily flirtatious' theme), the f**king lazy (SF copy pasting) and the simply misguided (when Bond and Maddie come flying out from under the MI6 building how can you not use the Bond theme? It's the climax of the film you are scoring which is a Bond film FFS!).
Let's not shed any tears for people giving Newman a shoeing. He brought it on himself.
I totally agree with this...this is the way I want it to be as well...
They chose to leave him to it. It was a poor decision on their part. You think Logan or Newman are calling the shots?? Mate, you need to learn how the movie industry works and what the role of a producer is.
Agree. Newman fits Mendes perfectly in the sense that there are moments I really like, moments I really hate and I want to like the whole thing more than I do, so I'm left debating in my mind and with others, but overall it just adds up to being meh.