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No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • BounineBounine
    Posts: 2,599
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    A part of me thinks there is an impotence in the plot department that they are trying to compensate for with this aggressive character study malarkey.

    Well, I do agree with you to a certain extend. But I do think the so called 'agressive character malarkey' isn't the real problem of a good plot. It's logic and plain common sense in the mission department. The reasoning needs to be sound and Bond's motivations must be more clear.

    You can still have good character studies -it's actually something the Craig films excell at-, but it should be less related to personal and historical backgrounds and more related to more simple plausible circumstances and some fresh common sense.

    You know, my mum and dad met each other in 1976 for the first time. Not because their parents were some kind of villains. But simply because they got a 'click' when they met somewhere. Peter Hunt knew how to do that with Tracy, Campbell knew how to do that with Vesper.

    But again.........don't we want a WHOLE new type of Bond girl? What about a lesbian with a heavy Cockney accent who actually knows how to ridicule Bond in the most funny way possible? A bit like Tiffany Case....sans sexism :-). Let's get rid of the Tracy's, Vesper's and Madeleine's. Instead bring in a beefy girl who out of the blue screams in a realistic way "Bond, you're a c**nt!".

    I agree, there are proper ways to do it. I just feel lately the plot has taken a back seat, like it isn't even a priority anymore.

    I think with Bond 25 they should just focus on a tight plot with few loose threads. Then, if they want too, they can reintroduce those elements over time. We need a palate cleanser Bond film, like TND or OP or something. Not that silly tone, but something inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. I think someone said it best with "low-key".

    Or FRWL? Or TLD? That to me are the kind of spy thrillers with an air of mystery and fear, without becoming too much like Nolan's Batman.

    It's not only that. Tonight I saw "Ronin" again. I am a big fan of director John Frankenheimer. THIS is action that Bond #25 needs. Loud engines, close to the ground action, stressed faces! I miss Frankenheimer. Does anyone know someone who could....follow his footsteps?:


    I have waxed lyrical on many an occasion about how it would be great to get a car chase in the same vein as the ones in Ronin but unfortuntely it just never happens. My god, when you watch Spectre's car chase in Rome on strangely empty streets, it's enough to put you to sleep compared to the brilliantly, excitingly shot Ronin scenes. None of the Bond car chases hold a candle to Ronins car chases.

    I've never cared if the Bond villains have had some grand, fantastical scheme but I like a taut story with gritty, fairly realistic action and some decent detective work and character movement that revolves around all of this. Grand sets are great too as opposed to the generic, claustrophobic sets we were given in TND and TWINE.

    In terms of the villain's scheme however, soemthing more in the lines of FRWL and TLD is also fine with me. It's what happens around this that's my main concern.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    Ugh ...saw notice of 36 new comments ...hoping news :(
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    Ugh ...saw notice of 36 new comments ...hoping news :(
    Not until Summer 2017. ;)
  • Comte_de_BleuchampComte_de_Bleuchamp
    Posts: 382
    IGUANNA wrote: »
    The idea of SPECTRE bulldozing and mindblowing MI6 from the inside out is brilliant as you say @Brady and a good way to go if they hope to make a good Bond story again. Also I want the next Bond film interspersed with flashbacks to Le Chriffre, Silva etc meeting and going to breakfast with Blofeld at the SPECTRE waffle house. If they need to use a CGI to make the actors look a littel younger then so be it. And yes absolutely they need to look to Marvel for inspiration, Like for instance the plot to Captain America 2- Robert Redford turned into an octopus, a building got knocked over, then everybody went home. :)

    Don't worry, I get your absurdist humour.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote: »
    They thought Bond's "waste of scotch" line was a genuine remark from Bond basically making light of Severine's brutal death, to which I countered that it was clear that Bond used that line to try and hide his anger and emotion from Silva to look like he was unaffected/unmoved by the moment, which Silva had intended to use to stir him. But it's in the past.

    I remember that debate. Thought it was hilarious. Bond is clearly buying time and not getting Silva get the better of him
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,400
    I think Bond should smoke in B25. I know there are laws against smoking now, but I don't think Bond would pay any attention to those.
  • tanaka123tanaka123
    Posts: 4,325
    Bounine wrote: »
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    A part of me thinks there is an impotence in the plot department that they are trying to compensate for with this aggressive character study malarkey.

    Well, I do agree with you to a certain extend. But I do think the so called 'agressive character malarkey' isn't the real problem of a good plot. It's logic and plain common sense in the mission department. The reasoning needs to be sound and Bond's motivations must be more clear.

    You can still have good character studies -it's actually something the Craig films excell at-, but it should be less related to personal and historical backgrounds and more related to more simple plausible circumstances and some fresh common sense.

    You know, my mum and dad met each other in 1976 for the first time. Not because their parents were some kind of villains. But simply because they got a 'click' when they met somewhere. Peter Hunt knew how to do that with Tracy, Campbell knew how to do that with Vesper.

    But again.........don't we want a WHOLE new type of Bond girl? What about a lesbian with a heavy Cockney accent who actually knows how to ridicule Bond in the most funny way possible? A bit like Tiffany Case....sans sexism :-). Let's get rid of the Tracy's, Vesper's and Madeleine's. Instead bring in a beefy girl who out of the blue screams in a realistic way "Bond, you're a c**nt!".

    I agree, there are proper ways to do it. I just feel lately the plot has taken a back seat, like it isn't even a priority anymore.

    I think with Bond 25 they should just focus on a tight plot with few loose threads. Then, if they want too, they can reintroduce those elements over time. We need a palate cleanser Bond film, like TND or OP or something. Not that silly tone, but something inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. I think someone said it best with "low-key".

    Or FRWL? Or TLD? That to me are the kind of spy thrillers with an air of mystery and fear, without becoming too much like Nolan's Batman.

    It's not only that. Tonight I saw "Ronin" again. I am a big fan of director John Frankenheimer. THIS is action that Bond #25 needs. Loud engines, close to the ground action, stressed faces! I miss Frankenheimer. Does anyone know someone who could....follow his footsteps?:


    I have waxed lyrical on many an occasion about how it would be great to get a car chase in the same vein as the ones in Ronin but unfortuntely it just never happens. My god, when you watch Spectre's car chase in Rome on strangely empty streets, it's enough to put you to sleep compared to the brilliantly, excitingly shot Ronin scenes. None of the Bond car chases hold a candle to Ronins car chases.

    I've never cared if the Bond villains have had some grand, fantastical scheme but I like a taut story with gritty, fairly realistic action and some decent detective work and character movement that revolves around all of this. Grand sets are great too as opposed to the generic, claustrophobic sets we were given in TND and TWINE.

    In terms of the villain's scheme however, soemthing more in the lines of FRWL and TLD is also fine with me. It's what happens around this that's my main concern.

    What about the QoS car chase?
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    w2bond wrote: »
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote: »
    They thought Bond's "waste of scotch" line was a genuine remark from Bond basically making light of Severine's brutal death, to which I countered that it was clear that Bond used that line to try and hide his anger and emotion from Silva to look like he was unaffected/unmoved by the moment, which Silva had intended to use to stir him. But it's in the past.

    I remember that debate. Thought it was hilarious. Bond is clearly buying time and not getting Silva get the better of him

    Yup ..it's Mendes/Craig/Logan/P&W actually at their best. Even clever reference to 1962 without blatant reference to Bond history.
  • tanaka123tanaka123
    Posts: 4,325
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    w2bond wrote: »
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote: »
    They thought Bond's "waste of scotch" line was a genuine remark from Bond basically making light of Severine's brutal death, to which I countered that it was clear that Bond used that line to try and hide his anger and emotion from Silva to look like he was unaffected/unmoved by the moment, which Silva had intended to use to stir him. But it's in the past.

    I remember that debate. Thought it was hilarious. Bond is clearly buying time and not getting Silva get the better of him

    Yup ..it's Mendes/Craig/Logan/P&W actually at their best. Even clever reference to 1962 without blatant reference to Bond history.

    Yeah I remember Mark Kermode having a dig at that line - but always just thought that it was Bond showing he wasn't affected by it to Silva rather than being a line that was out of place - especially after all the childing from Silva - 'Is there any of the old 007 left?'
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,617
    Its one of the best lines of the movie IMHO, treats the audience with respect as we are meant to understand Bond's position re the context of the plot. I lost alot of respect for Kermode when it just went over his head and he took the line at face value.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,400
    patb wrote: »
    Its one of the best lines of the movie IMHO, treats the audience with respect as we are meant to understand Bond's position re the context of the plot. I lost alot of respect for Kermode when it just went over his head and he took the line at face value.

    I had no idea that was what Moore was doing all these years.
  • IGUANNAIGUANNA
    Posts: 1,296
    M dying was 50% of the plot in Skyfall, and unless they plan on killing another main character Pervis and Wade and Logan need to put pen to paper NOW and really deliver on the story of the next outing.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,400
    IGUANNA wrote: »
    M dying was 50% of the plot in Skyfall, and unless they plan on killing another main character Pervis and Wade and Logan need to put pen to paper NOW and really deliver on the story of the next outing.

    Bravo! =D>
  • IGUANNAIGUANNA
    Posts: 1,296
    A standing ovation and nine thousand roses to you as well @Mendes4Life. How are you? :)

    e1c9efb73a6b2049a240606653fd07d5.gif
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    IGUANNA wrote: »
    M dying was 50% of the plot in Skyfall, and unless they plan on killing another main character Pervis and Wade and Logan need to put pen to paper NOW and really deliver on the story of the next outing.

    I'd rather they not even be given the pen.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,400
    IGUANNA wrote: »
    A standing ovation and nine thousand roses to you as well @Mendes4Life. How are you? :)

    e1c9efb73a6b2049a240606653fd07d5.gif

    Keeping busy. ;)
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Give the writing duty to writers who can deliver a great story, like Iguanna said. Something that screams Bond, and doesn't try to address some of the past events in the cinematic Bond history...

    Half of the current era is like... "Hey, remember that thing that was there and happened certain certain years ago?" or hideous and uninspired references to some old Bond films labeled as "easter eggs". No thanks. Give me a good story with James Bond in it, which also sounds Bondian. Don't drift away from the formula, but don't make your story rely on it, either.

    Keep the character true to its roots, and don't "diversify" him. Diversity applies to stories and the atmosphere covered around it.
  • Risico007Risico007
    Posts: 9,847
    The issue I have is there is a ton from Fleming left to adapt/rework that it's almost comical. In fact they should have no issue creating good stories and films based on fleming's work for the next 20 films as whole scenes and ideas could be used from fleming's work and elaborated on to create an interesting film specifically

    Live and let die: the entire plot of burried treasure financing Smersh update it to terrorists and instead of pirate treasure it's biblical treasures (gold from solomon's time etc) and you have an engrossing plot for a bond film that would find our hero in Israel the carribean and maybe South Africa

    Moonraker: the idea of M asking bond to investigate the local cheat at the card house and then how that moves into a whole other plot and with neonazism sadly on the rise even Hugo Von Drache being a nazi (and his real name) could both be updated and used in a future bond film also gala brand could be there too

    Diamonds are forever: the whole dam book can be used for a film adaptation

    There that is three books and three films for Eon I will take my check now thanks
  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    Posts: 16,169
    Risico007 wrote: »
    The issue I have is there is a ton from Fleming left to adapt/rework that it's almost comical. In fact they should have no issue creating good stories and films based on fleming's work for the next 20 films as whole scenes and ideas could be used from fleming's work and elaborated on to create an interesting film specifically

    Live and let die: the entire plot of burried treasure financing Smersh update it to terrorists and instead of pirate treasure it's biblical treasures (gold from solomon's time etc) and you have an engrossing plot for a bond film that would find our hero in Israel the carribean and maybe South Africa

    Moonraker: the idea of M asking bond to investigate the local cheat at the card house and then how that moves into a whole other plot and with neonazism sadly on the rise even Hugo Von Drache being a nazi (and his real name) could both be updated and used in a future bond film also gala brand could be there too

    Diamonds are forever: the whole dam book can be used for a film adaptation

    There that is three books and three films for Eon I will take my check now thanks


    Those are solid ideas. I couldn't agree more. I always felt The Spy Who Loved Me novel could be reworked in some way- as in that book he is in between SPECTRE assignments.
    The Bond section of that novel could almost be used as a PTS, then much like the film adaptation of TLD- elaborate from there.
    The Man With The Golden Gun novel could be re adapted to include the assassination attempt on M.
    There's a ton of Fleming material left.
  • tanaka123tanaka123
    Posts: 4,325
    Couldn't agree more about Fleming material - whole novel in YOLT too.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    Couldn't agree more about Fleming material - whole novel in YOLT too.

    Hopefully that's next.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Risico007 wrote: »
    Live and let die: the entire plot of burried treasure financing Smersh update it to terrorists and instead of pirate treasure it's biblical treasures (gold from solomon's time etc) and you have an engrossing plot for a bond film that would find our hero in Israel the carribean and maybe South Africa

    Sounds more like an Indy plot than a Bond one.
    Risico007 wrote: »

    Moonraker: the idea of M asking bond to investigate the local cheat at the card house and then how that moves into a whole other plot and with neonazism sadly on the rise even Hugo Von Drache being a nazi (and his real name) could both be updated and used in a future bond film also gala brand could be there too

    Given the rise of the far right I quite like the sound of that.
    Risico007 wrote: »
    Diamonds are forever: the whole dam book can be used for a film adaptation

    One of Fleming's weakest books. I wouldn't mind the scene at the mudbath and Bond scaling the outside of a cruise ship could be epic but the plot and the villains are from 30s gangster films.
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I always felt The Spy Who Loved Me novel could be reworked in some way- as in that book he is in between SPECTRE assignments.
    The Bond section of that novel could almost be used as a PTS

    In the immortal words of Mr Noel Coward 'No, no, no, no!'

    The number of times you hear people suggesting this, or that '007 in New York' would make a good title merely because they are Fleming.

    There is plenty of good material left in Fleming but this isnt it. They are making a massive, spectacular, international, action film. Rescuing a random bird from a couple of thugs at a motel just doesn't cut the mustard on any level.
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    It's not only that. Tonight I saw "Ronin" again. I am a big fan of director John Frankenheimer. THIS is action that Bond #25 needs. Loud engines, close to the ground action, stressed faces! I miss Frankenheimer. Does anyone know someone who could....follow his footsteps?:


    We've said that Ronin was the gold standard that Bond should be aiming for for how many years now? I suppose the QOS car chase came close apart from the shoddy editing but the chases in Ronin smash everything in SF and SP out of the park and probably all of the Ronin chases together were filmed for a fraction of the cost of the Rome chase in SP.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,216
    The chase scenes in the last two MI films are outstanding.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    talos7 wrote: »
    The chase scenes in the last two MI films are outstanding.
    Absolutely breathtaking, especially RN.
  • boldfingerboldfinger
    edited September 2016 Posts: 5,767
    talos7 wrote: »
    The chase scenes in the last two MI films are outstanding.
    Way above solid, but not outstanding.



    "Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    It's not only that. Tonight I saw "Ronin" again. I am a big fan of director John Frankenheimer. THIS is action that Bond #25 needs. Loud engines, close to the ground action, stressed faces! I miss Frankenheimer. Does anyone know someone who could....follow his footsteps?:

    Bond films used to have that, if somewhat more campy. TMWTGG, OP or AVTAK have ferocious car chase work, aside from some nonsense like a slide whistle.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,216
    Hmm, I respectfully disagree, particularly concerning the car/motorcycle sequence in RN.
  • tanaka123tanaka123
    Posts: 4,325
    Really liked the car/bike chase of RN - good balance of thrill and humour.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    Bond 25 just has a nice ring to it. Should be a special one like Casino Royale or Goldeneye.

    Because Bond 21 and Bond 17 had a nice ring to it as well?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Are we saying that they strike gold ever 4 films? In that case, bring it on. I can't wait!
  • ggl007ggl007 www.archivo007.com Spain, España
    Posts: 2,541
    Wanda confirms major Sony alliance: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/wanda-confirms-major-sony-alliance-932028

    a) Did they convince them, thanks to Bond? or...

    b) Is there now another reason for EON to say yes to Sony?
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