No Time To Die: Production Diary

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Comments

  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    The Marvel model is not the way forward for Bond. EON are always thinking ahead, that doesn't mean they are fixating on how a narrative neatly ties together a decade from now. They got caught in a trap with SP and it's retcon, but that doesn't mean they need to borrow the Disney/Marvel hand book. They'll continue to make the movies they want to make at that specific time. It's always been like that and I hope it stays that way. They obviously have a trajectory in mind when they move forward, but they deviate if and when they see fit (whether you or I agree with that is sort of irrelevant).
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    It was just an assumption I made. Realistically speaking, judging by their activities in the past, perhaps thinking only about the next film is indeed what they're doing next. Personally, I'd prefer standalone films and certainly wouldn't want more auteur writers to crash in. But, there is a trend set by the MCU in media others have been following... I wondered if Eon Productions are thinking about that strategic method.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    EoN really need to not get distracted from the job they have to do. They own the rights to all of Fleming's work and they need to take serious advantage of that.

    The only thing EoN need to look at Marvel for is the involvement Feige has over the films and even then, it's only looking to serve as a reminder that Cubby and Harry largely had it right in their stewardship of the films when they were in charge. Feige is similar as a sort of modern day Cubby and Harry but with greater creative and business strengths. EoN need to have tighter control over their films and be more stringent about what they want. (Newman's refusal to use the Bond theme should have activated an automatic dismissal and a replacement broufht in stat). However, but at the same time they need to move away from some of their outdated policies that limit the pool of talent they could get working on these films.

    They need to focus on establishing a creative direction and sticking with it until it is necessary to restrategise. In the mean time have writers come in and pitch ideas as to where the story and characters are going. A shortlist of the best ones get turned into draft screenplays and the best one of that gets put forward to be worked on until the script is complete in which EoN are regularly given progress reports and not the crap that happened with Logan RE: SP.

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I thought people never wanted to see continuity in Bond from this point on? Doesn't make much sense to then support forward planning for the series on EON's part.
  • Posts: 4,325
    doubleoego wrote: »
    EoN really need to not get distracted from the job they have to do. They own the rights to all of Fleming's work and they need to take serious advantage of that.

    The only thing EoN need to look at Marvel for is the involvement Feige has over the films and even then, it's only looking to serve as a reminder that Cubby and Harry largely had it right in their stewardship of the films when they were in charge. Feige is similar as a sort of modern day Cubby and Harry but with greater creative and business strengths. EoN need to have tighter control over their films and be more stringent about what they want. (Newman's refusal to use the Bond theme should have activated an automatic dismissal and a replacement broufht in stat). However, but at the same time they need to move away from some of their outdated policies that limit the pool of talent they could get working on these films.

    They need to focus on establishing a creative direction and sticking with it until it is necessary to restrategise. In the mean time have writers come in and pitch ideas as to where the story and characters are going. A shortlist of the best ones get turned into draft screenplays and the best one of that gets put forward to be worked on until the script is complete in which EoN are regularly given progress reports and not the crap that happened with Logan RE: SP.

    Newman refused to use the Bond theme? Sure it's in both Skyfall and Spectre.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    EoN really need to not get distracted from the job they have to do. They own the rights to all of Fleming's work and they need to take serious advantage of that.

    The only thing EoN need to look at Marvel for is the involvement Feige has over the films and even then, it's only looking to serve as a reminder that Cubby and Harry largely had it right in their stewardship of the films when they were in charge. Feige is similar as a sort of modern day Cubby and Harry but with greater creative and business strengths. EoN need to have tighter control over their films and be more stringent about what they want. (Newman's refusal to use the Bond theme should have activated an automatic dismissal and a replacement broufht in stat). However, but at the same time they need to move away from some of their outdated policies that limit the pool of talent they could get working on these films.

    They need to focus on establishing a creative direction and sticking with it until it is necessary to restrategise. In the mean time have writers come in and pitch ideas as to where the story and characters are going. A shortlist of the best ones get turned into draft screenplays and the best one of that gets put forward to be worked on until the script is complete in which EoN are regularly given progress reports and not the crap that happened with Logan RE: SP.

    Newman refused to use the Bond theme? Sure it's in both Skyfall and Spectre.
    Very rarely, however, just to remind us it's a Bond film.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,715
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    EoN really need to not get distracted from the job they have to do. They own the rights to all of Fleming's work and they need to take serious advantage of that.

    The only thing EoN need to look at Marvel for is the involvement Feige has over the films and even then, it's only looking to serve as a reminder that Cubby and Harry largely had it right in their stewardship of the films when they were in charge. Feige is similar as a sort of modern day Cubby and Harry but with greater creative and business strengths. EoN need to have tighter control over their films and be more stringent about what they want. (Newman's refusal to use the Bond theme should have activated an automatic dismissal and a replacement broufht in stat). However, but at the same time they need to move away from some of their outdated policies that limit the pool of talent they could get working on these films.

    They need to focus on establishing a creative direction and sticking with it until it is necessary to restrategise. In the mean time have writers come in and pitch ideas as to where the story and characters are going. A shortlist of the best ones get turned into draft screenplays and the best one of that gets put forward to be worked on until the script is complete in which EoN are regularly given progress reports and not the crap that happened with Logan RE: SP.

    Newman refused to use the Bond theme? Sure it's in both Skyfall and Spectre.
    Very rarely, however, just to remind us it's a Bond film.

    The iconic guitar part of the Bond theme has been played only once outside of the end credits in the Craig era - the DB5 reveal in SF.
  • Posts: 1,181
    I think people are just concerned we will get more things like the whole step brother garbage in the future. If a bit of planning prevents things like that, I'm all on board. For some of us our trust and faith in EON's judgment has taken a slight tumble.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    EoN really need to not get distracted from the job they have to do. They own the rights to all of Fleming's work and they need to take serious advantage of that.

    The only thing EoN need to look at Marvel for is the involvement Feige has over the films and even then, it's only looking to serve as a reminder that Cubby and Harry largely had it right in their stewardship of the films when they were in charge. Feige is similar as a sort of modern day Cubby and Harry but with greater creative and business strengths. EoN need to have tighter control over their films and be more stringent about what they want. (Newman's refusal to use the Bond theme should have activated an automatic dismissal and a replacement broufht in stat). However, but at the same time they need to move away from some of their outdated policies that limit the pool of talent they could get working on these films.

    They need to focus on establishing a creative direction and sticking with it until it is necessary to restrategise. In the mean time have writers come in and pitch ideas as to where the story and characters are going. A shortlist of the best ones get turned into draft screenplays and the best one of that gets put forward to be worked on until the script is complete in which EoN are regularly given progress reports and not the crap that happened with Logan RE: SP.

    Newman refused to use the Bond theme? Sure it's in both Skyfall and Spectre.
    Very rarely, however, just to remind us it's a Bond film.

    The iconic guitar part of the Bond theme has been played only once outside of the end credits in the Craig era - the DB5 reveal in SF.
    Some don't want the "cliches" of the old films and formula to come back, @DaltonCraig007. Such as the use of The James Bond Theme, the cufflink/tie adjustment, the suave and cool chap Bond as well as supervillains. Go figure. ;)
  • Posts: 4,325
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    EoN really need to not get distracted from the job they have to do. They own the rights to all of Fleming's work and they need to take serious advantage of that.

    The only thing EoN need to look at Marvel for is the involvement Feige has over the films and even then, it's only looking to serve as a reminder that Cubby and Harry largely had it right in their stewardship of the films when they were in charge. Feige is similar as a sort of modern day Cubby and Harry but with greater creative and business strengths. EoN need to have tighter control over their films and be more stringent about what they want. (Newman's refusal to use the Bond theme should have activated an automatic dismissal and a replacement broufht in stat). However, but at the same time they need to move away from some of their outdated policies that limit the pool of talent they could get working on these films.

    They need to focus on establishing a creative direction and sticking with it until it is necessary to restrategise. In the mean time have writers come in and pitch ideas as to where the story and characters are going. A shortlist of the best ones get turned into draft screenplays and the best one of that gets put forward to be worked on until the script is complete in which EoN are regularly given progress reports and not the crap that happened with Logan RE: SP.

    Newman refused to use the Bond theme? Sure it's in both Skyfall and Spectre.
    Very rarely, however, just to remind us it's a Bond film.

    Yes I agree, but that's very different to him actually refusing to use the Bond theme - i think that is not true.
  • Posts: 4,325
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    EoN really need to not get distracted from the job they have to do. They own the rights to all of Fleming's work and they need to take serious advantage of that.

    The only thing EoN need to look at Marvel for is the involvement Feige has over the films and even then, it's only looking to serve as a reminder that Cubby and Harry largely had it right in their stewardship of the films when they were in charge. Feige is similar as a sort of modern day Cubby and Harry but with greater creative and business strengths. EoN need to have tighter control over their films and be more stringent about what they want. (Newman's refusal to use the Bond theme should have activated an automatic dismissal and a replacement broufht in stat). However, but at the same time they need to move away from some of their outdated policies that limit the pool of talent they could get working on these films.

    They need to focus on establishing a creative direction and sticking with it until it is necessary to restrategise. In the mean time have writers come in and pitch ideas as to where the story and characters are going. A shortlist of the best ones get turned into draft screenplays and the best one of that gets put forward to be worked on until the script is complete in which EoN are regularly given progress reports and not the crap that happened with Logan RE: SP.

    Newman refused to use the Bond theme? Sure it's in both Skyfall and Spectre.
    Very rarely, however, just to remind us it's a Bond film.

    The iconic guitar part of the Bond theme has been played only once outside of the end credits in the Craig era - the DB5 reveal in SF.
    Some don't want the "cliches" of the old films and formula to come back, @DaltonCraig007. Such as the use of The James Bond Theme, the cufflink/tie adjustment, the suave and cool chap Bond as well as supervillains. Go figure. ;)

    Is Fleming's Bond cool and suave?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited September 2016 Posts: 28,694
    Ed83 wrote: »
    I think people are just concerned we will get more things like the whole step brother garbage in the future. If a bit of planning prevents things like that, I'm all on board. For some of us our trust and faith in EON's judgment has taken a slight tumble.

    The frustrating thing is how little the personal connection between Bond and Blofeld even matters to the story, such that it could have been forgotten and nothing would have changed, beyond a few throwaway lines where Blofeld teases Bond about it ("Brothers know how to touch each other's buttons," etc.). I think quite strongly that if that particular element was dropped from the movie, many, many more people here would be positive about SP. As it stands, it's my belief that the stepbrother angle soured the film for some and after that point, there was no chance it could recover after that.

    I didn't use to mind it much, but the more I think about it and how little any of it matters to the story in any way-and how silly it comes off in the movie at times-it just doesn't work.

    Here's how it should have gone: Blofeld should have simply wanted Bond's head on a silver platter not because of some misguided childhood envy, but because 007 had spoiled all his plans since CR and QoS. When Bond finally ran into Blofeld, it would be him coming face to face with the criminal maestro behind a lot of his biggest missions, and for Blofeld he'd finally meet the man who had almost single-handedly unraveled some of his organization's greatest schemes. You could even give SP a DN spin and maybe have Blofeld trying at first to recruit Bond to join SPECTRE, then turn sour to him after Bond refuses. Or just have him go full-blown agro on Bond and try and kill him so he quits getting in the way of his organization's interests.

    The plot needed nothing more than that to make Bond and Blofeld credible enemies. Them having a past does very little in the grand scheme of things, and feels very corny at times. It just feels...weird, that's all I can say. It would be like knowing Holmes and Moriarty were private school rivals as kids, before growing up to be full-blown enemies. It just doesn't work.


    I really like SP, but out of all the Craig films, I want to change it the most. I see such potential in it to be even better that it's frustrating it's held back by some of the stuff between Blofeld and Bond and the issues that arrive as the third act begins.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    EoN really need to not get distracted from the job they have to do. They own the rights to all of Fleming's work and they need to take serious advantage of that.

    The only thing EoN need to look at Marvel for is the involvement Feige has over the films and even then, it's only looking to serve as a reminder that Cubby and Harry largely had it right in their stewardship of the films when they were in charge. Feige is similar as a sort of modern day Cubby and Harry but with greater creative and business strengths. EoN need to have tighter control over their films and be more stringent about what they want. (Newman's refusal to use the Bond theme should have activated an automatic dismissal and a replacement broufht in stat). However, but at the same time they need to move away from some of their outdated policies that limit the pool of talent they could get working on these films.

    They need to focus on establishing a creative direction and sticking with it until it is necessary to restrategise. In the mean time have writers come in and pitch ideas as to where the story and characters are going. A shortlist of the best ones get turned into draft screenplays and the best one of that gets put forward to be worked on until the script is complete in which EoN are regularly given progress reports and not the crap that happened with Logan RE: SP.

    Newman refused to use the Bond theme? Sure it's in both Skyfall and Spectre.

    He didn't want to use it and apparently he didn't want to weave cues from Adele's SF theme. Someone else was brought in iirc to add bits of the Bond theme. In any case, we didn't get a full Bond theme within the movie itself and that, I find unacceptable.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Ed83 wrote: »
    I think people are just concerned we will get more things like the whole step brother garbage in the future. If a bit of planning prevents things like that, I'm all on board. For some of us our trust and faith in EON's judgment has taken a slight tumble.

    That's just illogical, though. Just because you plan to do something a decade down the line doesn't mean that won't change. In all likelihood, it will. This whole discussion is a bit of a non sequitur - SF was a hugely successful standalone movie, both critically and financially. The 'misstep' that is at the heart of this argument was born out of the giddiness to include the SP organisation at the earliest opportunity and the decision to retcon. Had those two things been handled differently, or even abandoned completely, we would likely not be having this conversation. The issue people have is not with forward planning (they've just convinced themselves of this because of Disney/Marvel), the issue is with general decision making at the pre-production stage.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    EoN really need to not get distracted from the job they have to do. They own the rights to all of Fleming's work and they need to take serious advantage of that.

    The only thing EoN need to look at Marvel for is the involvement Feige has over the films and even then, it's only looking to serve as a reminder that Cubby and Harry largely had it right in their stewardship of the films when they were in charge. Feige is similar as a sort of modern day Cubby and Harry but with greater creative and business strengths. EoN need to have tighter control over their films and be more stringent about what they want. (Newman's refusal to use the Bond theme should have activated an automatic dismissal and a replacement broufht in stat). However, but at the same time they need to move away from some of their outdated policies that limit the pool of talent they could get working on these films.

    They need to focus on establishing a creative direction and sticking with it until it is necessary to restrategise. In the mean time have writers come in and pitch ideas as to where the story and characters are going. A shortlist of the best ones get turned into draft screenplays and the best one of that gets put forward to be worked on until the script is complete in which EoN are regularly given progress reports and not the crap that happened with Logan RE: SP.

    Newman refused to use the Bond theme? Sure it's in both Skyfall and Spectre.
    Very rarely, however, just to remind us it's a Bond film.

    The iconic guitar part of the Bond theme has been played only once outside of the end credits in the Craig era - the DB5 reveal in SF.
    Some don't want the "cliches" of the old films and formula to come back, @DaltonCraig007. Such as the use of The James Bond Theme, the cufflink/tie adjustment, the suave and cool chap Bond as well as supervillains. Go figure. ;)

    Is Fleming's Bond cool and suave?
    The cinematic Bond isn't completely defined by the literary character.
  • Posts: 4,325
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    EoN really need to not get distracted from the job they have to do. They own the rights to all of Fleming's work and they need to take serious advantage of that.

    The only thing EoN need to look at Marvel for is the involvement Feige has over the films and even then, it's only looking to serve as a reminder that Cubby and Harry largely had it right in their stewardship of the films when they were in charge. Feige is similar as a sort of modern day Cubby and Harry but with greater creative and business strengths. EoN need to have tighter control over their films and be more stringent about what they want. (Newman's refusal to use the Bond theme should have activated an automatic dismissal and a replacement broufht in stat). However, but at the same time they need to move away from some of their outdated policies that limit the pool of talent they could get working on these films.

    They need to focus on establishing a creative direction and sticking with it until it is necessary to restrategise. In the mean time have writers come in and pitch ideas as to where the story and characters are going. A shortlist of the best ones get turned into draft screenplays and the best one of that gets put forward to be worked on until the script is complete in which EoN are regularly given progress reports and not the crap that happened with Logan RE: SP.

    Newman refused to use the Bond theme? Sure it's in both Skyfall and Spectre.
    Very rarely, however, just to remind us it's a Bond film.

    The iconic guitar part of the Bond theme has been played only once outside of the end credits in the Craig era - the DB5 reveal in SF.
    Some don't want the "cliches" of the old films and formula to come back, @DaltonCraig007. Such as the use of The James Bond Theme, the cufflink/tie adjustment, the suave and cool chap Bond as well as supervillains. Go figure. ;)

    Is Fleming's Bond cool and suave?
    The cinematic Bond isn't completely defined by the literary character.

    I think that was my point.
  • edited September 2016 Posts: 4,325
    doubleoego wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    EoN really need to not get distracted from the job they have to do. They own the rights to all of Fleming's work and they need to take serious advantage of that.

    The only thing EoN need to look at Marvel for is the involvement Feige has over the films and even then, it's only looking to serve as a reminder that Cubby and Harry largely had it right in their stewardship of the films when they were in charge. Feige is similar as a sort of modern day Cubby and Harry but with greater creative and business strengths. EoN need to have tighter control over their films and be more stringent about what they want. (Newman's refusal to use the Bond theme should have activated an automatic dismissal and a replacement broufht in stat). However, but at the same time they need to move away from some of their outdated policies that limit the pool of talent they could get working on these films.

    They need to focus on establishing a creative direction and sticking with it until it is necessary to restrategise. In the mean time have writers come in and pitch ideas as to where the story and characters are going. A shortlist of the best ones get turned into draft screenplays and the best one of that gets put forward to be worked on until the script is complete in which EoN are regularly given progress reports and not the crap that happened with Logan RE: SP.

    Newman refused to use the Bond theme? Sure it's in both Skyfall and Spectre.

    He didn't want to use it and apparently he didn't want to weave cues from Adele's SF theme. Someone else was brought in iirc to add bits of the Bond theme. In any case, we didn't get a full Bond theme within the movie itself and that, I find unacceptable.

    The criticisms over his use of the Bond theme are somewhat nonsensical: the theme was all over the Skyfall score, not always overtly but certainly creatively, and that approach very much applies to Spectre, which in-keeping with the movie's central notion of the past catching up is closely tied into Skyfall's musical ideas. In fact, it's surprising to hear how much of Skyfall's material is referenced in Spectre; at the same time, Newman is far too accomplished a composer to use said ideas as a crutch. Instead, it's best to see both scores as two sides of the same Bondian coin: a musical depiction of the past, present and future.

    When it comes to Spectre itself, the Bond theme first makes a forceful, brassy appearance in the opening "Los Muertos Vivos Estan", subsequent applications ranging from the slyly knowing bass flute intonations in the opening moments of "The Eternal City" to the spine-tingling choral interpretation midway through "Backfire", the steady build-up of "Safe House" and the relentlessly exciting statement in "Snow Plane". Surely its biggest crowd-pleasing moment comes in the hugely dramatic "Westminster Bridge" whose squealing horns recall John Barry at his finest. What Newman does brilliantly is avoid using the theme as a glib, predictable signifier of something heroic: instead he deploys it very carefully, looking to see how it can extend the emotional impact of a given track in the most memorable way possible.

    Newman scored the whole film. You're thinking of GoldenEye where John Altman was brought in to bring the Bond theme into the tank chase.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    Bond 25 won't happen until 2019 at the earliest.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited September 2016 Posts: 15,423
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    EoN really need to not get distracted from the job they have to do. They own the rights to all of Fleming's work and they need to take serious advantage of that.

    The only thing EoN need to look at Marvel for is the involvement Feige has over the films and even then, it's only looking to serve as a reminder that Cubby and Harry largely had it right in their stewardship of the films when they were in charge. Feige is similar as a sort of modern day Cubby and Harry but with greater creative and business strengths. EoN need to have tighter control over their films and be more stringent about what they want. (Newman's refusal to use the Bond theme should have activated an automatic dismissal and a replacement broufht in stat). However, but at the same time they need to move away from some of their outdated policies that limit the pool of talent they could get working on these films.

    They need to focus on establishing a creative direction and sticking with it until it is necessary to restrategise. In the mean time have writers come in and pitch ideas as to where the story and characters are going. A shortlist of the best ones get turned into draft screenplays and the best one of that gets put forward to be worked on until the script is complete in which EoN are regularly given progress reports and not the crap that happened with Logan RE: SP.

    Newman refused to use the Bond theme? Sure it's in both Skyfall and Spectre.
    Very rarely, however, just to remind us it's a Bond film.

    The iconic guitar part of the Bond theme has been played only once outside of the end credits in the Craig era - the DB5 reveal in SF.
    Some don't want the "cliches" of the old films and formula to come back, @DaltonCraig007. Such as the use of The James Bond Theme, the cufflink/tie adjustment, the suave and cool chap Bond as well as supervillains. Go figure. ;)

    Is Fleming's Bond cool and suave?
    The cinematic Bond isn't completely defined by the literary character.

    I think that was my point.
    Well, if you're hoping they're down to adapt the Fleming character completely from head to toe, you shouldn't expect that in the hands of Eon Productions. They haven't done it 50 years ago and onward, they certainly won't do now. The best we can hope for it is elements of it, which is seen in Dalton and Craig's tenures, so far. They've created a new character once they released his cinematic debut. The latter is the character the average cinemagoer knows and watches.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,715
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    EoN really need to not get distracted from the job they have to do. They own the rights to all of Fleming's work and they need to take serious advantage of that.

    The only thing EoN need to look at Marvel for is the involvement Feige has over the films and even then, it's only looking to serve as a reminder that Cubby and Harry largely had it right in their stewardship of the films when they were in charge. Feige is similar as a sort of modern day Cubby and Harry but with greater creative and business strengths. EoN need to have tighter control over their films and be more stringent about what they want. (Newman's refusal to use the Bond theme should have activated an automatic dismissal and a replacement broufht in stat). However, but at the same time they need to move away from some of their outdated policies that limit the pool of talent they could get working on these films.

    They need to focus on establishing a creative direction and sticking with it until it is necessary to restrategise. In the mean time have writers come in and pitch ideas as to where the story and characters are going. A shortlist of the best ones get turned into draft screenplays and the best one of that gets put forward to be worked on until the script is complete in which EoN are regularly given progress reports and not the crap that happened with Logan RE: SP.

    Newman refused to use the Bond theme? Sure it's in both Skyfall and Spectre.

    He didn't want to use it and apparently he didn't want to weave cues from Adele's SF theme. Someone else was brought in iirc to add bits of the Bond theme. In any case, we didn't get a full Bond theme within the movie itself and that, I find unacceptable.

    The criticisms over his use of the Bond theme are somewhat nonsensical: the theme was all over the Skyfall score, not always overtly but certainly creatively, and that approach very much applies to Spectre, which in-keeping with the movie's central notion of the past catching up is closely tied into Skyfall's musical ideas. In fact, it's surprising to hear how much of Skyfall's material is referenced in Spectre; at the same time, Newman is far too accomplished a composer to use said ideas as a crutch. Instead, it's best to see both scores as two sides of the same Bondian coin: a musical depiction of the past, present and future.

    When it comes to Spectre itself, the Bond theme first makes a forceful, brassy appearance in the opening "Los Muertos Vivos Estan", subsequent applications ranging from the slyly knowing bass flute intonations in the opening moments of "The Eternal City" to the spine-tingling choral interpretation midway through "Backfire", the steady build-up of "Safe House" and the relentlessly exciting statement in "Snow Plane". Surely its biggest crowd-pleasing moment comes in the hugely dramatic "Westminster Bridge" whose squealing horns recall John Barry at his finest. What Newman does brilliantly is avoid using the theme as a glib, predictable signifier of something heroic: instead he deploys it very carefully, looking to see how it can extend the emotional impact of a given track in the most memorable way possible.

    Newman scored the whole film. You're thinking of GoldenEye where John Altman was brought in to bring the Bond theme into the tank chase.

    IMO the complaints on Newman are very much correct.

    Until we hear the Bond theme like these from him...







    ... he is under-using the Bond theme. Me and @ClarkDevlin are aware the Bond theme is used his both his soundtracks, but we are talking about a huge, bombastic version of the Bond theme during an action sequence or Bond doing something cool. Which simply has not happened outside of the DB5 reveal in Craig's era.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    As we witnessed above, @DaltonCraig007, most of the members hate these elements that we you and I love, see? They'd rather Eon does something that isn't the Bondian of the past. ;)
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    Actually I think 2019 wouldn't be a bad time. The 50th anniversary of OHMSS, a prized jewel of the franchise. Plus the extra wait might get people excited for Bonds return. If my theory is correct they would start filming around December of 2018. That sounds about right to me.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    RC7 wrote: »
    Ed83 wrote: »
    I think people are just concerned we will get more things like the whole step brother garbage in the future. If a bit of planning prevents things like that, I'm all on board. For some of us our trust and faith in EON's judgment has taken a slight tumble.

    That's just illogical, though. Just because you plan to do something a decade down the line doesn't mean that won't change. In all likelihood, it will. This whole discussion is a bit of a non sequitur - SF was a hugely successful standalone movie, both critically and financially. The 'misstep' that is at the heart of this argument was born out of the giddiness to include the SP organisation at the earliest opportunity and the decision to retcon. Had those two things been handled differently, or even abandoned completely, we would likely not be having this conversation. The issue people have is not with forward planning (they've just convinced themselves of this because of Disney/Marvel), the issue is with general decision making at the pre-production stage.

    This.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Actually I think 2019 wouldn't be a bad time. The 50th anniversary of OHMSS, a prized jewel of the franchise. Plus the extra wait might get people excited for Bonds return. If my theory is correct they would start filming around December of 2018. That sounds about right to me.

    That would almost mean the end of Craig,i think he would have lost interest by then and moved on.

  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    edited September 2016 Posts: 2,252
    Actually I think 2019 wouldn't be a bad time. The 50th anniversary of OHMSS, a prized jewel of the franchise. Plus the extra wait might get people excited for Bonds return. If my theory is correct they would start filming around December of 2018. That sounds about right to me.

    Please, no more anniversaries and tributes. 2002. Blatant references in 2008. 50th anniversary in 2012. Nostalgic elements in 2015. Please make the 25th a stand alone mission which looks to the future, not the past.

    Do any celebrations and tributes outside of the movie
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    w2bond wrote: »
    Actually I think 2019 wouldn't be a bad time. The 50th anniversary of OHMSS, a prized jewel of the franchise. Plus the extra wait might get people excited for Bonds return. If my theory is correct they would start filming around December of 2018. That sounds about right to me.

    Please, no more anniversaries and tributes. 2002. Blatant references in 2008. 50th anniversary in 2012. Nostalgic elements in 2015. Please make the 25th a stand alone mission which looks to the future, not the past.

    Do any celebrations and tributes outside of the movie
    +1
  • Posts: 1,181
    That's just illogical, though. Just because you plan to do something a decade down the line doesn't mean that won't change. In all likelihood, it will. This whole discussion is a bit of a non sequitur - SF was a hugely successful standalone movie, both critically and financially. The 'misstep' that is at the heart of this argument was born out of the giddiness to include the SP organisation at the earliest opportunity and the decision to retcon. Had those two things been handled differently, or even abandoned completely, we would likely not be having this conversation. The issue people have is not with forward planning (they've just convinced themselves of this because of Disney/Marvel), the issue is with general decision making at the pre-production stage.

    I wasn't so much talking about mapping out the next 10-15 years, but instead extending pre production planning of the next film to run simultaneous to the production cycle of the current film. This would allow more time for ideas to mature and bad elements to be dismissed earlier in the process. This might help hit the 3 year release window a bit better.

    I agree that the preproduction process needs to be tweaked to ensure the gatekeepers aren't letting these terrible ideas pass through in the first place. Obviously to them, the ideas were brilliant which is the real problem.

  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    w2bond wrote: »
    Actually I think 2019 wouldn't be a bad time. The 50th anniversary of OHMSS, a prized jewel of the franchise. Plus the extra wait might get people excited for Bonds return. If my theory is correct they would start filming around December of 2018. That sounds about right to me.

    Please, no more anniversaries and tributes. 2002. Blatant references in 2008. 50th anniversary in 2012. Nostalgic elements in 2015. Please make the 25th a stand alone mission which looks to the future, not the past.

    Do any celebrations and tributes outside of the movie

    That's what I mean. The celebrations for OHMSS and the release of B25 will coincide.
  • Posts: 19,339
    w2bond wrote: »
    Actually I think 2019 wouldn't be a bad time. The 50th anniversary of OHMSS, a prized jewel of the franchise. Plus the extra wait might get people excited for Bonds return. If my theory is correct they would start filming around December of 2018. That sounds about right to me.

    Please, no more anniversaries and tributes. 2002. Blatant references in 2008. 50th anniversary in 2012. Nostalgic elements in 2015. Please make the 25th a stand alone mission which looks to the future, not the past.

    Do any celebrations and tributes outside of the movie

    That's what I mean. The celebrations for OHMSS and the release of B25 will coincide.

    I'm not sure I like the idea of Bond not being on screen for nearly 4 years.
    He could lose his momentum during that period,and would definitely lose out to Bourne and Hunt in MI.

  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    barryt007 wrote: »
    w2bond wrote: »
    Actually I think 2019 wouldn't be a bad time. The 50th anniversary of OHMSS, a prized jewel of the franchise. Plus the extra wait might get people excited for Bonds return. If my theory is correct they would start filming around December of 2018. That sounds about right to me.

    Please, no more anniversaries and tributes. 2002. Blatant references in 2008. 50th anniversary in 2012. Nostalgic elements in 2015. Please make the 25th a stand alone mission which looks to the future, not the past.

    Do any celebrations and tributes outside of the movie

    That's what I mean. The celebrations for OHMSS and the release of B25 will coincide.

    I'm not sure I like the idea of Bond not being on screen for nearly 4 years.
    He could lose his momentum during that period,and would definitely lose out to Bourne and Hunt in MI.

    Or maybe a chance to forget SP and long for Bond again? TSWLM, GE, and SF all did financially better after a longer gap and a disappointing entry.

    I don't know ...just throwing thoughts out.
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