No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • Posts: 1,970
    I mean there at least has to be some rough outlines being written up for Bond 25.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited October 2016 Posts: 10,591
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    I mean there at least has to be some rough outlines being written up for Bond 25.
    Other than by us, I don't think so. At best, they're probably tossing some ideas around.
  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    edited October 2016 Posts: 3,126
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    I mean there at least has to be some rough outlines being written up for Bond 25.[/
    @fjdinardo there has to be there is no way Daniel would tease at the New Yorker festival and say that at the end of Spectre his bond thinks its over and say that's what he thinks but it doesn't say to be continued notice he didn't say James bond would return which would be with out him he said continued they mist have a plan after the movie if he said to be continued.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,392
    1 / 5 / 9 / 24
    2 / 10 / 13 / 23

    Those are the places in my Bond ranking of Craig and Brosnan.

    Dalton has spots 3 / 11 by the way.

    No matter how many of you will find Brosnan and/or his films "dismal" or whatever, they were not.
    At the time all 4 of them worked wonders at the BO and with critics and the audience by the way.
    It can be debated if they aged nicely. But then the 00's will be judged quite differently in 2025 as well, once they hit the 20 year old mark.

    Brosnan paved the way for whole generations of new Bond fans. Dalton, as much as it pains me to say, would have not accomplished this, he lost 3 movies for a decent 5 film run. AVTAK, 1991 and 1993. That should have been his time.

    My Brosnan rankings - 6/14/23/20

    The only film I don't like is TWINE. DAD has a lot of up sides that people tend to ignore, and TND is very underrated IMO. A slick, stylish outing and a loving rendition of the formula.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    I wouldn't be surprised if there is pre production prep going on in the background. After the leaks, I'm sure EON has checked their seals and bolted everything down as not to have another repeat on what happened with Spectre.
  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    Posts: 3,126
    Murdock wrote: »
    I wouldn't be surprised if there is pre production prep going on in the background. After the leaks, I'm sure EON has checked their seals and bolted everything down as not to have another repeat on what happened with Spectre.
    @Murdock yeah probably they are probably more paranoid then ever they could have a very first rough draft idea that we don't know about
  • edited October 2016 Posts: 11,425
    I am quite happy for Dan to stay as long as he wants. None of the touted replacements fill me with much excitement. Would be very happy if he ended up doing 6 but can't see how unless they really get their act together.

    I just hope this doesn't mean Mendes might also return...!

    And Newman.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I firmly believe that if we're to get a continuation to SP, it will be Mendes again, irrespective of what he has said publicly.

    No Mendes means no continuation story, imho.
  • Posts: 4,603
    There will be some justice in that as Mendes created the mess so he can get the franchise out of it
  • edited October 2016 Posts: 11,425
    Mendes Not Bond Director! The futile campaign to stop him starts now.

    I don't know what it is about Mendes's direction but I just find it a little flaccid.

    I think it may partly be that he's dreadful at action and suspense. And he's obsessed with these rather shallow 'personal' storylines about Bond's childhood that feel tacked on and actually don't have any emotional resonance.

    There were lots of good ideas in both his films but for me neither really took off. I prefer SP, and I actually feel the sense of unfulfilled potential more in relation to SF. With SF I think the basic concepts are pretty solid but it's a bit of an incoherent mess as executed.

    The Scottish finale could and should have been fantastic but just limps over the finishing line.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Even if Mendes finally made a decent Bond movie with Spectre I don't want him back. The risk that he will make another dreary, funless plotless film like Skyfall is too high.

    And don't start me on Newman. They will probably make a best of SF and SP for Bond 25 score.
  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    Posts: 3,126
    bondjames wrote: »
    I firmly believe that if we're to get a continuation to SP, it will be Mendes again, irrespective of what he has said publicly.

    No Mendes means no continuation story, imho.

    @bondjames I don't think Mendes is returning but even though Craig is back and they bring some things back from spectre doesn't mean its a full continuation it will be a partial continuation I think but not full I also think a Felix Lieter will come back to the series so will David Arnold
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2016 Posts: 23,883
    @007Blofeld, that's reasonable. It could be a partial continuation certainly. I just don't think any director worth his/her salt will want to be excessively saddled with Mendes's creations (including Madeline, brother Blofeld, Hinx if he's still alive etc.).

    So I can see a scenario where these folks are alluded to (especially Madeline) but not dwelled on.
  • Posts: 4,603
    I am struggling with partial continuation as it tends to undermine the plot and characters but not enough to say "no, lets just ignore all that and move on to a great new story", so if you reference Blofeld who caused all that pain or MS who loved Bond etc, how can you have then as background figures?
    IMHO , you either grasp the nettle and havea really clever script writer deal with the mess and come out at the other end with some sort of respect or just dump it and move on with a clean slate.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Exactly, which is why I think they will indeed dump it and move on with a clean slate, like they did with SF, post-QoS (enough time had passed, and it looks like that will be the case here again).
  • edited October 2016 Posts: 4,603
    Something that I took for granted whilst enjoying SF was the lack of backage. You dive straight into a wonderful Bondian scenario with the PTS and focus on Bond in the present and Bond's issues with child hood and his love/affection for M. And thats it, we dont have to worry about other stuff, we can totally focus on those issues and doing so frees up the writers and means that the audience are not distracted by back stories and connections with other movies.
    Surely, given the choice, a scriptwriter would want to do the same and thow us in the deep end of a great, fresh, baggage free , 2 hours of quality Bond material?
    I do wonder though that , if they do that with DC, it is an almost open admission that SP failed in providing a convincing and sustainable end/climax.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    edited October 2016 Posts: 4,116
    I could see BB more than MGW pushing a Mendes return. I could also see a studio resistant to the idea.

    Also see greater audience moan and predicted BO drop off from announcement of Mendes return.

    Just hire P&W back kill the series and have plenty of time to make crap no one watches.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    I could see BB more than MGW pushing a Mendes return. I could also see a studio resistant to the idea.

    Also see greater audience moan and predicted BO drop off from announcement of Mendes return.

    Just hire P&W back kill the series and have plenty of time to make crap no one watches.

    I agree on BB. Sadly she will just do whatever pleases her without thinking of the bigger picture. And as long as she is successful with it, it'll stay that way.

    As for BO drop off, Spectre still was the second most successful Bond movie ever and in many parts of the world, including the German-language region Spectre did almost as well as Skyfall or even outdid it. I'm talking ticket sales.
    The BO situation was hurt by exchange rates a great lot. But in the end it was the US who prevented Spectre to become as successful as Skyfall.

    If Mendes would return, and P+W, it still will make at least another 800 million. But for us die-hard fans it would be a catastrophe.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Is everyone on downer pills? Relax! Things are shaping up nicely. Craig will return which likely means Waltz will return as well. We'll be looking to see a new type of Bond film. Some real wild west territory. Maybe just maybe we'll get that YOLT Novel style movie to finish off Craig's era with a nice little bow. Bring Campbell and Arnold back and we might have a masterpiece on our hands folks.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    That would be my ideal Bond 25.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    As long as the story synopsis doesn't start with 'Bond discovers something from his past that has consequences in the present...'

    I'll be as sound as a pound....
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Murdock wrote: »
    Things are shaping up nicely. Craig will return which likely means Waltz will return as well.
    For me, these two statements pose a contradiction. Craig I can live with. Waltz I'd rather be done with.

    I don't see Campbell coming back to continue someone else's story. The last two times he did Bond he reimagined the franchise and if by some chance he's back again it will be to do the same thing once more.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    edited October 2016 Posts: 16,351
    bondjames wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Things are shaping up nicely. Craig will return which likely means Waltz will return as well.
    For me, these two statements pose a contradiction. Craig I can live with. Waltz I'd rather be done with.

    I don't see Campbell coming back to continue someone else's story. The last two times he did Bond he reimagined the franchise and if by some chance he's back again it will be to do the same thing once more.

    But you see, He wouldn't be continuing Mendes' story. He's be continuing Bond's story. He's just has some extra things to work with. There are so many possibilities things can be taken. He has a chance to take Craig's Bond in a bold new direction.
  • edited October 2016 Posts: 11,425
    I don't think Campbell will be on Dan or Babs list.

    The next one either has to be direct continuation or a clean slate type approach. I'd personally prefer a clean slate, as although I enjoyer SP, the story didn't really leave me wanting more of the same.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,392
    The main issue with the Craig era is that they have directed attention away from their impotence in the plot department by focusing primarily on character. No less they seem to have successfully spun this into some sort of positive move. The flashy action and CGI spectacle of the Brosnan films have been replaced by teen angst Dawsons Creek style mopefest and EON has people convinced that this is a step forward for the franchise. Both of these approaches are equally misguided, both as wrong-footed as the other. Of course, we all know that what Bond should be about is thrills, suspense and intrigue. After all that is the basis of Flemings classic novels. A good Bond story is founded on the villains plan, and the twists and turns as Bond both uncovers and brings an end to said plan. But of course EON have spent the better part of 3 decades trying to make it about anything but the story (with a few exceptions). With Brosnan the gratuitous action, and now with Craig the completely surplus to requirements character drama.

    Bond is a guy who goes about sleuthing into the plans of some wealthy ego-maniac or some secret organisation. Bond films should be about mystery and intrigue. Of course action is enjoyable as well when properly staged and executed, and there's nothing wrong with a moment of character insight, but it should never become the focus. EON from 1962-1997 understood this, and then they hired P+W and the series lost it's way. The only story since then that has unraveled naturally the way it should was written way back in '53 and simply updated.

    This is why I'm not really interested in seeing Craig return. Because as long as Craig returns and the same continuity continues and the same writers keep writing these scripts, we're going to be stuck with the same problem. They will find a way to make this spy franchise, based on a series of pulp spy novels, about something other than intrigue and suspense. Because it's much easier to fill your script with explosions or dump half of Friedrich Nietzsche's collected works into your story than it is to sit down and come up with a tight, satisfying thriller using craft and skill. If Bond 25 is to be successful in rediscovering what truly made the franchise great then, it has to be bold and take a fresh approach. That means starting from scratch with a new director, new writers and most importantly a new Bond. I have nothing against Craig but his interpretation of the character is following in the same pattern as Connery and Moore before him. His shtick is becoming far too refined to the point where he is becoming a parody of himself. Some say he looked bored in SP, however I feel like the problem is that he is so predictable now, his responses are so expected, that it almost seems like laziness.

    Anyway, the most important decision EON can make is who will carry the franchise forward into the next decade. They need someone with danger written over their face, someone who has a definite mystique about them. That is the most important decision for EON to make next.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    -1

    Turner, from the nose down reminds me of smug Ben Affleck.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,392
    peter wrote: »
    -1

    Turner, from the nose down reminds me of smug Ben Affleck.

    I didn't even mention Turner.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    the "writing (was) on the wall".

    (and has been for too many months)
  • Posts: 6,601
    ...and WE are all very proud of you. Must have been tough. And true, you didnt even describe him.
  • Posts: 632
    I'm all for Craig, Waltz, and Seydoux returning, doing a more faithful adaptation of You Only Live Twice, and calling it Shatterhand. I'd love for either Arnold to return or bring in Giacchino.
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