No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    What is (was?) KTBEU?
    "Keeping the British End Up" forums. Basically MI6 Community pre-2011.
  • Posts: 1,296
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    BB is targeted now not because she's a woman but she seems to be the prominent voice.

    Let's move on please
    "She seems to be" is not an explanation. It's just another assumption.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,392
    peter wrote: »
    @Clark and @Mendes, moving on from the criticism of BB, but, what makes Gregg Wilson the heir apparent? I'm interested in Mendes' original statement, that he wishes he would take over. Why? What's he going to do that will breathe something fresh and original into the franchise? What has he indicated that he will bring to the table?

    Thanks,

    P

    The more important question is why do you think, after 55 years of keeping it in the family, that they would suddenly hand it over to Kathleen Kennedy or whoever? You may not like it, but it's obvious that Gregg is being groomed to take over in the same way that Barbara and Micheal were. And to be fair, Barbara and Micheal were a huge part of what saved the franchise. The problem is that eventually you start to fall into patterns without realising it. The last few Craig films have been as formulaic and by the numbers as any of the late Moore era films. It just the natural time for Barbara, who is finding fulfillment in other things these days, and Micheal with his health, to step down. Like I said, Gregg will have completely different reference points, and new ideas about how the franchise can evolve, and he won't be afraid to try them. It just make sense with the Craig era winding down, that they find someone with a bit of enthusiasm, a bit of energy and make a real go of it.
    I never said Gregg was the perfect candidate, but he is THE candidate, whether we want it or not. The only question now is whether we want to see the change happen, even though it might mean taking a risk and being brave, or whether we want to cling to the status quo of BB and Craig for as long as possible.

    so I answered your question, lets leave it there. I'm not exactly sure what we are allowed to say on this thread anymore.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @Mendes, I never said I wanted any producer to take this franchise over.

    BB is a producer of the stage play, Othello (one of many), and one film. I don't know how you can surmise she's being fulfilled elsewhere. And, as a film producer, she should be working on other projects-- that's how she will continue to grow.

    You talk about getting stuck in patterns, however, when a producer works with other people, and other teams, s/he is constantly learning, and will add more tools to their tool box.

    I have no problem with Gregg taking over, at some point, but I think it's presumptuous to insist this is imminent, or even in the works. As reference to this thread, BB will be producing Bond 25, with her team in place.

    You may not have enjoyed the past couple of films, but, as was noted, with everything going on in the film world today, BB is one helluva film producer.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I love how the Craig films, the movies criticized most for not following the old Bond formula, are argued to be just as formulaic as the rest.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @OBrady, I completely agree... All four films kept the spirit of the past alive, but stretched themselves to be more original. In a film world addicted to reboots and comics, that's saying something about EON.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    peter wrote: »
    @OBrady, I completely agree... All four films kept the spirit of the past alive, but stretched themselves to be more original. In a film world addicted to reboots and comics, that's saying something about EON.

    I'm done arguing about it. As @RC7 aptly put it, it's all "horse shit."
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    IGUANNA wrote: »
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    BB is targeted now not because she's a woman but she seems to be the prominent voice.

    Let's move on please
    "She seems to be" is not an explanation. It's just another assumption.

    Obviously that's why I said "she seems to be..".

    I wasn't presenting a concrete answer.
  • edited October 2016 Posts: 11,425
    Bounine wrote: »
    The complete dialogue with Tiffany at her apartment is priceless, better than all 4 Craig movies combined dialogue wise.

    Bond: Is Mr Case not at home?
    Tiffany: There is no Mr Case. The T is for Tiffany.
    Bond: Tiffany Case? Definitely distinctive.
    Tiffany: I was born there, on the first floor, while my mother was looking for a wedding ring.
    Bond: I'm glad for your sake it wasn't Van Cleef and Arpels.

    Yes, this is my favourite dialogue in the film. Up until the Brosnan era, DAF was my least favourite Bond film. I don't dislike it but I never thought that it was up there with the rest of them, that is, until the Brosnan films hit the screen. I have always enjoyed the dialogue though.
    @bondjames

    Agree, both kinds of dialogue work. To compare them is rather difficult.
    I will, though, always prefer the kind of dialogue that DAF offers over the Craig-era stuff.

    The Craig era dialogue has been very sub bar. I was watching a 'best lines of the Craig era' compilation on YouTube and they were mostly pretty weak. It's a credit to Craig that's he has been able to make the most of some not particualrly good writing. He deserves better.

    The Maibaum writing in particular was extremely strong in the past.

    I really think EON should go back to using American writers - the Brits are cr*p. The US seems awash with young, talented, witty, intelligent writers - Bond needs to start tapping into them more.

    Purvis and Wade just need to be ditched for good.

  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    I don't know about that. Depends on the writer... although I prefer the writer to have a British voice.

    I wouldn't mind an American director depending on the director of course.
  • edited October 2016 Posts: 11,425
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    I don't know about that. Depends on the writer... although I prefer the writer to have a British voice.

    I wouldn't mind an American director depending on the director of course.

    But most of the classic Bond dialogue was written by Americans.

    We need good writers. Whether they have a 'British voice' is not important IMO.

    I agree about directors tho - it's absurd we haven't had an American director. How was Tomahori okay but an American not acceptable?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    The exclusivity of Bond to specific nationalities is ridiculous, especially nowadays.

    The most focus should be spent on compiling the greatest team on all fronts that can produce films with the artistry, style and impact of the 60s. We need a dream team that can do at least half of what Young, Maibaum, Adam, Barry, Cain and Hunt did. They'll never be matched, but we can always shoot for the stars.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Tom Mankiewicz was an American. And his dialogues were superb.
  • edited October 2016 Posts: 11,425
    The exclusivity of Bond to specific nationalities is ridiculous, especially nowadays.

    The most focus should be spent on compiling the greatest team on all fronts that can produce films with the artistry, style and impact of the 60s. We need a dream team that can do at least half of what Young, Maibaum, Adam, Barry, Cain and Hunt did. They'll never be matched, but we can always shoot for the stars.

    Very true. They were part of a very unique generation with totally different reference points and experiences.

    I think they also perhaps rose up during a more meritocratic era, when sheer talent was more important than connections and who daddy knew.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,275
    The best combination was Richard Maibaum (American) and Simon Raven (British). Shame they never asked Raven back.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I can't say I've ever been a fan of Mankiewicz's style. In his scripts it seemed like every man and his dog knew that Bond was secretly (or not so secretly) a 00 agent for Her Majesty's Secret Service. That's never sat well with me, nor will it ever.
  • Posts: 16,149
    Tom Mankiewicz was an American. And his dialogues were superb.
    Some of the most quotable lines in the series, really. I wouldn't mind an American Bond writer along the lines of Tom Mankiewicz. I'd love a return to the witticism the series used to be known for in B25.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Yes. Wit has been noticeable by its absence from the Bond films for about 25 years
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Agreed. I'd love to have another Mankiewicz on board.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I'm fine with wit when it's not abysmally delivered or presented. Dry, sardonic wit is good, but otherwise, it kills tension. Young understood this, but unfortunately his vision was mishandled by lesser talents over time until we end up with the same old tropes we have now, called the "Bond formula," which does more detriment than good.

    If having great wit in Bond films means a return of Bond talking to rats or asking people about their "brudders," I'm happy to see it go comatose.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,275
    I'm fine with wit when it's not abysmally delivered or presented. Dry, sardonic wit is good, but otherwise, it kills tension. Young understood this, but unfortunately his vision was mishandled by lesser talents over time until we end up with the same old tropes we have now, called the "Bond formula," which does more detriment than good.

    If having great wit in Bond films means a return of Bond talking to rats or asking people about their "brudders," I'm happy to see it go comatose.

    I feel a slight stiffness coming on...in the shoulder. Due to the altitude no doubt.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,575
    Have they done anything yet? Is any sort of script being formulated? It seems that everything is hinging on DC making his decision, because outside of Bell and Theo James, there's not even any screen tests taking place. Or I wonder if it ends up similar to the Dark Knight trilogy in which things take place many years later.
  • Posts: 16,149
    Have they done anything yet? Is any sort of script being formulated? It seems that everything is hinging on DC making his decision, because outside of Bell and Theo James, there's not even any screen tests taking place. Or I wonder if it ends up similar to the Dark Knight trilogy in which things take place many years later.

    I thought development on B25 was supposed to begin in Spring of this year. Yet, so far we have heard nothing.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,275
    Development is likely happening as we speak. If a script were completed by a year from now and Craig is starring, we could see Bond 25 in 2018.

    If it is to be a new Bond, then it'll likely take another year to identify who the star might be, so 2019 (with a second film in 2021).

    The real question is: when does Craig next have a six-month break in his schedule?
  • Posts: 6,601
    Of that was the creteria, they could Start Fall next year
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    I'm fine with wit when it's not abysmally delivered or presented. Dry, sardonic wit is good, but otherwise, it kills tension. Young understood this, but unfortunately his vision was mishandled by lesser talents over time until we end up with the same old tropes we have now, called the "Bond formula," which does more detriment than good.

    If having great wit in Bond films means a return of Bond talking to rats or asking people about their "brudders," I'm happy to see it go comatose.

    Agreed.

    Some people seem to think a Bond film should just consist of witty one liners.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    I'm one of those people.
  • Posts: 1,296
    This 500 page thread is like a crazy person keeping a diary of potential names for his friend's unborn baby, when they dont even know the gender yet. How do you have a production diary when there's no production??
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I'm fine with wit when it's not abysmally delivered or presented. Dry, sardonic wit is good, but otherwise, it kills tension. Young understood this, but unfortunately his vision was mishandled by lesser talents over time until we end up with the same old tropes we have now, called the "Bond formula," which does more detriment than good.

    If having great wit in Bond films means a return of Bond talking to rats or asking people about their "brudders," I'm happy to see it go comatose.

    Agreed.

    Some people seem to think a Bond film should just consist of witty one liners.

    @LeonardPine, I don't get it either. The model for Bond films should be tight, tense and atmospheric spy thrillers like DN and FRWL, and not the worst of the Moore era and afterward where these one-liners got way, way off the leash. By the time we got to the Brosnan era, they were still around, and worse yet, the lines were so groan inducing that it's made even worse. At least some of Moore's were clever, if they had to be around.

    That's just not Bond to me. The films should never be at risk of being classified as comedies, but thanks to scripts from those like Mankiewicz, the great work the 60s team did was undone as Bond's legend got soiled for many, many years after. Dalton gave us hope of a return to proper Bond, but that was robbed from us and it was a return to Moore with Brosnan's era. That's why I enjoy the Craig films so much: this is a return to what Bond should be, with a tone more in Young's image than Hamilton or Mankiewicz's. And long may that continue.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited October 2016 Posts: 6,275
    I agree wholeheartedly, @OBradyMOBondfanatic7.

    When it came to one-liners, nobody did it like Moore, not even Connery. And his seven films cemented Bond as a "fun time at the movies" (which explains some of the backlash toward Craig--while the Bond novels are escapist, I wouldn't exactly describe them as a "fun time").

    Everyone since Moore has struggled to some extent with the one-liner baggage of Bond. I'd be happy to see that aspect of Bond films jettisoned completely, or at least used very sparingly.
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