No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    Nice checklist, @AlexanderWaverly. The dates much up indeed, the Naomie announcement in June was when I joined and posted.
  • Red_SnowRed_Snow Australia
    Posts: 2,545
    Chris Hewitt from Empire Magazine posted a few observations about Bond 25 on Twitter today.

    "In an age where franchises have release dates mapped out until the day we die and beyond, it's surprising we're still waiting for Bond 25."

    "I know Bond may be moving to a different studio, and Daniel Craig is up in the air, but it's been over a year since Spectre. Interesting."

    "In fact, it's been fascinating watching EON resist the current model. They could do a Q spin-off, a Blofeld origin etc. Yet they don't."

    "Spectre didn't do Skyfall numbers, but it still made almost $900m worldwide. Ordinarily that would trigger announcements for 2018/2020 etc."

    "Not saying it's a good or bad thing either way. Just making an observation."

    "@ChrisHewitt think the lack of a set in stone distributor for B25 onwards is the big issue. Apparently they were meant to announce that at CinemaCon (or at least decide who’s getting it around that time last year)

    Makes sense. I'm sure EON would like to have announced Bond 25 by now, but all the pieces have to fall into place. Stick with Sony or twist?"
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Red_Snow wrote: »
    Chris Hewitt from Empire Magazine posted a few observations about Bond 25 on Twitter today.

    They could do a Q spin-off, a Blofeld origin etc. Yet they don't."
    Well then at least they are doing something right.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited January 2017 Posts: 15,423
    Why on earth do we need a Q spinoff?!

    I can understand the balderdash about Blofeld (cough, Vader, cough) but Q?! Seriously?!

    Why not do an M Spinoff with Mallory back when he was in the anti-IRA regiment and was imprisoned? The whole movie was about the regiment during the eighties when Mallory and his underlings were sitting and spending their days in a small barricade, wasting time while pretending to be the resistance against the IRA people (a la Blackadder Series Four) until the day they are surprise-attacked and imprisoned. Best we can get from an M spinoff.

    You get my point.
  • AntiLocqueBrakesAntiLocqueBrakes The edge
    Posts: 538
    Lack of progress on B25 is a bit disappointing. Willing to wait for a good product though.
  • Why on earth do we need a Q spinoff?!

    I can understand the balderdash about Blofeld (cough, Vader, cough) but Q?! Seriously?!

    Why not do an M Spinoff with Mallory back when he was in the anti-IRA regiment and was imprisoned? The whole movie was about the regiment during the eighties when Mallory and his underlings were sitting and spending their days in a small barricade, wasting time while pretending to be the resistance against the IRA people (a la Blackadder Series Four) until the day they are surprise-attacked and imprisoned. Best we can get from an M spinoff.

    You get my point.

    Sony was going to try this with the Andrew Garfield-universe Spider-Man. They announced a Sinister Six film and plans for other spinoffs.

    The Marvel model works because you can have multiple characters already developed for films and have others you can do so. You can have a "shared universe" of movie characters because you already had a shared universe of comic book characters.

    With Bond, you could do a Felix Leiter movie (similar to the comic book). But as noted above, is anybody really seeking a Q movie? A Bill Tanner movie? The adventures of agent 0011?
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    edited January 2017 Posts: 4,116
    bondjames wrote: »
    Red_Snow wrote: »
    Chris Hewitt from Empire Magazine posted a few observations about Bond 25 on Twitter today.

    They could do a Q spin-off, a Blofeld origin etc. Yet they don't."
    Well then at least they are doing something right.

    Agreed.

    And whomever said a Bill Tanner movie. =)) ...funny sarcasm.

    Bill Tanner: The Movie from the studio that f'up the Ghostbusters. :P
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Why on earth do we need a Q spinoff?!

    I can understand the balderdash about Blofeld (cough, Vader, cough) but Q?! Seriously?!

    Why not do an M Spinoff with Mallory back when he was in the anti-IRA regiment and was imprisoned? The whole movie was about the regiment during the eighties when Mallory and his underlings were sitting and spending their days in a small barricade, wasting time while pretending to be the resistance against the IRA people (a la Blackadder Series Four) until the day they are surprise-attacked and imprisoned. Best we can get from an M spinoff.

    You get my point.

    Sony was going to try this with the Andrew Garfield-universe Spider-Man. They announced a Sinister Six film and plans for other spinoffs.

    The Marvel model works because you can have multiple characters already developed for films and have others you can do so. You can have a "shared universe" of movie characters because you already had a shared universe of comic book characters.

    With Bond, you could do a Felix Leiter movie (similar to the comic book). But as noted above, is anybody really seeking a Q movie? A Bill Tanner movie? The adventures of agent 0011?
    Indeed. I could definitely see a character like Felix getting his own film and some other established Bond Girls (Iike Pussy Galore) getting their spinoff, not necessarily films, but a Q movie or a Bill Tanner movie? Sense, people, sense. Or we could make a movie about that one scientist we've seen in blur at the Q briefing scene passing from one corner to another, dealing with a bad day.

    The problem with Bond not being able to churn out spinoff films (apart from the potential Felix Leiter has) is because this universe has one protagonist and that is Bond. It's about Bond being the hero only. Whereas DC and Marvel have a universe where there are countless protagonists who have their stories to tell. They're not detached from one another. Bond doesn't work that way, because his franchise is about one character, not multiple characters.
  • //Bond doesn't work that way, because his franchise is about one character, not multiple characters.//

    This. In some scenes (not the whole movie), SPECTRE seemed like Team Bond. That messes around with the dynamics. Bond is a lone wolf.
  • One more thought about Bond as lone wolf. Bond is somewhat like Philip Marlowe. Marlowe is a lone wolf. Can you imagine Philip Marlowe spinoff movies? I think there is a police detective who appears in multiple Chandler novels. But I seriously doubt anyone would care about his adventures.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    That entire team aspect of SP is something else I didn't care for. I want to see Bond at the forefront, having them step in only when necessary. I think the movie would've benefitted even more by removing the entire Nine Eyes/C/chaos in London angle, and solely having Bond pursue the leader of a sinister organization who is unleashing havoc across the globe.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Some characters just need to exist to be background noises and doors to open, nothing more.

    M - Gives mission.
    Moneypenny - Flirting with the secretary scene that adds to the film's regularity as the mission briefing does.
    Q - gives gadget, artillery and equipment.
    Tanner - adds details to mission briefing while M provides it.

    These characters are created for these purposes and these purposes alone, so EON should stick to it.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    If they're going to keep Tanner around for the future, they really need to give him something better to do. His only purpose lately is to reiterate information we already know, or give us irrelevant dialogue that unnecessarily pokes more holes in the story and with what's going on.

    I'd enjoy a return of Bond flirting with MP in the office, meeting up with M and any higher-ups in his office, and then jumping right to Q's workshop to get his weapons and gadgets, before embarking on his mission (where we may not see the rest of the team at MI6 until the ending of the movie).
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,592
    Some characters just need to exist to be background noises and doors to open, nothing more.

    M - Gives mission.
    Moneypenny - Flirting with the secretary scene that adds to the film's regularity as the mission briefing does.
    Q - gives gadget, artillery and equipment.
    Tanner - adds details to mission briefing while M provides it.

    These characters are created for these purposes and these purposes alone, so EON should stick to it.
    I'm inclined to agree, but the reality is this: As long as they hire an actor with the calibre of Fiennes to play M, Eon will find a way to make full use of them at their disposal. Whether this means to simply give them more screen time, or finding a way to incorporate some MI6 drama into the mix, you simply don't hire an expensive, award-winning actor only to limit them to a single mission brief. I'm fine with more screen time for the regulars personally, so long it isn't shoehorned for the sake of the actors and that Bond remains the key player throughout the film's entirety.

    As long as Craig is Bond, the current incarnations of M, Moneypenny, and Q will have an abundance of screen time in comparison to their predecessors.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Which is why the era isn't performing properly. There's no MI6 team in a Bond movie. This isn't Spooks. This is supposed to be a James Bond thriller starring James Bond, Bond Girls, Supervillain, and possibly a henchman. The others are just background noises.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I think they perhaps are being influenced by the recent success of the MI films and of course prior to that, the 24 series. In effect, trying to appeal to the younger generation with the high tech connectivity and teamwork/crowdsourcing thing. I'm not really sure how spy fieldwork is conducted these days, but perhaps it is more of a team effort.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    It's not looking well at all. The "team work" should include other 00s or CIA ally agents, not M, Q and Moneypenny.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    It's not looking well at all. The "team work" should include other 00s or CIA ally agents, not M, Q and Moneypenny.
    Fair points. Indeed, a receptionist/PA (even if formerly a failed field operative) shouldn't really be involved, nor should a gadget man.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    bondjames wrote: »
    It's not looking well at all. The "team work" should include other 00s or CIA ally agents, not M, Q and Moneypenny.
    Fair points. Indeed, a receptionist/PA (even if formerly a failed field operative) shouldn't really be involved, nor should a gadget man.
    Exactly. If they're trying to replicate the template of Benji Dunn (Simon Pegg) being the tech man on the field, M:I made it quite clear that the character passed the field test and now is a field agent. Q isn't. He doesn't know self-defense and knows nothing beyond science. So he should stay in his lab, as should M and Moneypenny behind their desks. What's the 00-Section for? Just a name to mention and perhaps rename (like the 00-Programme)?
  • Posts: 1,631
    It would be great if they could get back to Bond being the lone operative in the field. It's much more compelling from a narrative standpoint to have Bond out on his own, with maybe only the help of the Bond girl that he's come across in the events of the narrative, than having the full backing of MI6 available at the drop of a hat whenever it's needed.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,359
    I don't so much mind Q in the field as he's the most interesting of the MI6 crew. M and Moneypenny need to stay at the office and Tanner could be expunged from the series for all I care. He doesn't do anything interesting in Craig's era. He's just monotone exposition man. I wish they stuck with him as the traitor instead of Denbigh because at least that would have made an already useless character interesting.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,592
    But the audience was, and never has been remotely invested in the character of Tanner. So there would have been virtually zero payoff if he was discovered to be a traitor.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    I don't find Q interesting at all. He's just as dull as Moneypenny and Tanner. M, at least, is Ralph Fiennes, which is why I'm not giving up on him just yet. But I'd rather he'd be a Robert Brown/Bernard Lee mixture than Nick Fury wannabe.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,359
    Well if he was the traitor and killed himself like was originally intended. One less member of the Scooby gang. :))
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2017 Posts: 23,883
    It hurts me to say this, but I don't really find Fiennes all that compelling as M. Now that Dench is gone, I have to say that I far prefer her as Bond's boss. I hope this is only because of the outrageously poor writing in SP, and not because I won't be able to fully embrace Fiennes going forward. I quite liked him in SF, I must say.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    You answered your own question, @bondjames. Poor writing of SP made him a downgrade of what seemed interesting prior to it. Fiennes has only had one outing as M so far and it started out controversially with him catching up in fire with MI5, this sort of story requires an established character, and Gareth Mallory isn't established yet. So, SP was wrong for him AND Blofeld to be introduced. Facially and at more prominent role, at least.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    //Bond doesn't work that way, because his franchise is about one character, not multiple characters.//

    This. In some scenes (not the whole movie), SPECTRE seemed like Team Bond. That messes around with the dynamics. Bond is a lone wolf.

    Exactly! For years people were complaining about Miles being out in the field instead of being parked behind her desk. Now, the last few films have Bond and his compadres running around, tag teaming abroad. They need to stop all that. Keep the home team at HOME and let Bond go about on his own, making new friends like he used to and as he should.
  • When Judi Dench became M in GE, we didn't see her after she gave Bond the mission. That process took a little longer to establish how she was different from her predecessor, etc. But once Bond was assigned, that was it.

    In Tomorrow Never Dies, we cut back to London a couple of times to see Judi/M dealing with the situation but that still didn't change the dynamic. It was akin to Bernard Lee/M in Thunderball, where we cut back a couple of times while Bond was on his mission. (In the fifth draft to Dr. No, written shortly before the start of filming, there was one M/Moneypenny scene back at HQs but it ended up either not being filmed or just cut from the movie.)

    Things began to change with The World Is Not Enough. M had a personal connection with Elektra and got kidnapped. This was around the time you began seeing quotes from Michael G. Wison about how if you had such a great actress you had to use her more.

  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    Posts: 3,126
    apparently tom hardy would like christopher nolan to direct bond25 https://hmssweblog.wordpress.com/2017/01/15/hardy-says-being-007-with-nolan-directing-would-be-cool/
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