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No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • LegionnaireLegionnaire
    Posts: 142
    @Creasy47, You remind me of my ex-wife who needed to make a line by line accounting of anything and everything in order to be able to claim that she was right and therefore superior. If you like MI movies more power to you, they put me to sleep.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    In the context (and under the protection) of a long legacy/history of superb stunt and model work one can say that Bond owes no apologies to anyone.

    However, if one is talking about the last two films from the two respective franchises in particular, then I'd say the MI entries have far superior stunt sequences and CGI work. It's quite seamless for the most part in this respect, which can't be said for the two Mendes releases.

    I look for a return to form with B25, or at least something in the same league as CR's African crane parkour sequence, which remains a highlight of the Craig era for me.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,399
    The thing is, we wouldn't be this reliant on CGI if the scripts were better written. If the stories were actually engaging, they wouldn't need so many smash-bang action to hold peoples attention. A down to earth Bond is still more than possible, if EON actually had the desire and the bravery to chase it.
  • dominicgreenedominicgreene The Eternal QOS Defender
    Posts: 1,756
    47b16bc0-0c34-11e4-aab5-237c6d02af08_Craig-and-Dench.jpg
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited February 2017 Posts: 10,591
    That damn image is so engraved in my mind now, that I can't unseen it whenever I watch the actual scene. That is literally the stuff of nightmares.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    jake24 wrote: »
    That damn image is so engraved in my mind now, that I can't unseen it whenever I watch the actual scene. That is literally the stuff of nightmares.

    I'm the same way; I absolutely cannot unsee it, even when viewing the original image.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    The thing is, we wouldn't be this reliant on CGI if the scripts were better written. If the stories were actually engaging, they wouldn't need so many smash-bang action to hold peoples attention. A down to earth Bond is still more than possible, if EON actually had the desire and the bravery to chase it.

    Yup. CR is proof of this. However, Craig isn't the daredevil junkie that Cruise is so Dan does get extra points for the stunts he does do, especially for CR/QoS and the train sequence in SF. Hats off to the guy...but yes, EoN need to ardently pursue working with incredibly engaging scripts that tell a fascinating and thrilling story. For me, SP was just an embarassment and I just can't get over what a mess it was.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    M:I is fine. Bond is Bond.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    To be frank, out of five, M:I had only two good films. Bond? There are very few that aren't great. Very few.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    @Legionnaire, then you completely misconstrued what I was saying, as did everyone else - I wasn't commenting on the "good" or "bad" films of either series, I was specifically mentioning the stunt work/level of CGI.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    @Legionnaire, then you completely misconstrued what I was saying, as did everyone else - I wasn't commenting on the "good" or "bad" films of either series, I was specifically mentioning the stunt work/level of CGI.
    I got it @Creasy47, and the last two MI films blow Bond out of the water in this respect imho. The EON entries may have had a deserved legendary reputation in days past, but in my view they have some work to do in order to be best in class again.
  • QuantumOrganizationQuantumOrganization We have people everywhere
    edited February 2017 Posts: 1,187
    I hate to ask but what is it in SF and SP that's not as good?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    bondjames wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    @Legionnaire, then you completely misconstrued what I was saying, as did everyone else - I wasn't commenting on the "good" or "bad" films of either series, I was specifically mentioning the stunt work/level of CGI.
    I got it @Creasy47, and the last two MI films blow Bond out of the water in this respect imho. The EON entries may have had a deserved legendary reputation in days past, but in my view they have some work to do in order to be best in class again.

    Thanks @bondjames, that's exactly what I was getting at. In terms of stunts, I absolutely agree - I want the series to return to giving us some truly inventive stunts that immediately warrant the dropping of jaws and applause.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    bondjames wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    @Legionnaire, then you completely misconstrued what I was saying, as did everyone else - I wasn't commenting on the "good" or "bad" films of either series, I was specifically mentioning the stunt work/level of CGI.
    I got it @Creasy47, and the last two MI films blow Bond out of the water in this respect imho. The EON entries may have had a deserved legendary reputation in days past, but in my view they have some work to do in order to be best in class again.

    The implication here is that M:I are delivering 'legendary' sequences. They aren't. They're doing some decent stuff.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,399
    Difference is M:I is trying to be entertainment and doing decent work. Bond is trying to be art and failing. Ambition and "originality" stand for very little when the end product isn't up to snuff.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2017 Posts: 23,883
    RC7 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    @Legionnaire, then you completely misconstrued what I was saying, as did everyone else - I wasn't commenting on the "good" or "bad" films of either series, I was specifically mentioning the stunt work/level of CGI.
    I got it @Creasy47, and the last two MI films blow Bond out of the water in this respect imho. The EON entries may have had a deserved legendary reputation in days past, but in my view they have some work to do in order to be best in class again.

    The implication here is that M:I are delivering 'legendary' sequences. They aren't. They're doing some decent stuff.
    No, that's not the implication. That's the implication you took incorrectly.

    Bond is legendary in the action genre due to its history and the advanced work that they did in the past. Not what they are doing now. I think most people would agree with me in this regard.

    In my view, MI is the current benchmark in this space. A space that had been occupied by Bond for many decades but which they perhaps lost somewhere in the mid 80's, at least in my view. That doesn't mean they are 'legendary'. Just that I think they are superior to Bond (and several other action films) in this regard.

    I've been a Bond fan since childhood, but since CR they've not had anything to write home about in the action or stunt category (the QoS & SF pts were decent enough).
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    Difference is M:I is trying to be entertainment and doing decent work. Bond is trying to be art and failing. Ambition and "originality" stand for very little when the end product isn't up to snuff.

    hqdefault.jpg

    Insert Sam Mendes jumping up and down like a maniacal clown
  • Some_Kind_Of_HeroSome_Kind_Of_Hero
    Posts: 6,844
    Forest for the trees
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited February 2017 Posts: 10,591
    Delete.
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,617
    Re MI and CGI etc, as usual, it comes down to a good script. At some point , the MI scriptwriter came up with the idea of Ethan holding on to the outside of an A400. Its the initial idea that starts everything moving and its something that can be physically done and the audience can relate to it instantly. Bond scritwriters need to come up with exactly these type of stunts that can be performed in the real World rather than stuff that requires CGI
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2017 Posts: 23,883
    patb wrote: »
    Re MI and CGI etc, as usual, it comes down to a good script. At some point , the MI scriptwriter came up with the idea of Ethan holding on to the outside of an A400. Its the initial idea that starts everything moving and its something that can be physically done and the audience can relate to it instantly. Bond scritwriters need to come up with exactly these type of stunts that can be performed in the real World rather than stuff that requires CGI
    Exactly. The building collapse in SP (as an example) was obviously CGI heavy and unnecessary imho. I would have preferred Bond finding a way to get to the other building and chase Sciarra after the first shot, or find a way down to ground level from the rooftop 'Bourne style' in order to pursue him.

    I do realize however that much of the action mess that constitutes SP was a result of Craig's knee injury.
  • QuantumOrganizationQuantumOrganization We have people everywhere
    Posts: 1,187
    I don't think they just made it up on the spot after Craig's injury.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    QuantumOrganization wrote: »
    I don't think they just made it up on the spot after Craig's injury.

    The only adlibed moment I'm aware of is the section of the PTS where Bond and Sciarra make their way through the spinning dancers. The original plan was to have them run through the crowd, but Craig's knee injury forced Mendes to improvise and demand that real Mexican cops lined the streets. That way, the two opt to walk instead of run as to avoid drawing attention to themselves.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Perhaps not entirely (and perhaps not for that rooftop scenario), but I believe his injury must have at least impacted the manner in which some of the action sequences were devised and executed.

    Speaking of rooftop sequences, I am reminded of an excellent one in In the Line of Fire. Eastwood is chasing Malkovich's character and has to get across the rooftops of two buildings. It's quite tense despite being done the old fashioned way.
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,617
    Great example, and Malkovich adlibed by putting his mouth over the gun barrel. Its a tense and memorable scene IMHO. You just dont need CGI to have great action, drama and tension: just decent script writers.
  • BounineBounine
    edited February 2017 Posts: 2,599
    I'd love Craig to return but I'm not keen on Mendes.

    I really feel like this damn foster brother revelation has tainted the series though. What a completely stupid plot device. Honestly, what the hell were they thinking? I would love Craig's portrayal to be more like it was pre Spectre though.
  • QuantumOrganizationQuantumOrganization We have people everywhere
    Posts: 1,187
    The train fight, shanghai fight, Whitehall sh
    Bounine wrote: »
    I'd love Craig to return but I'm not keen on Mendes.

    I really feel like this damn foster brother revelation has tainted the series though. What a completely stupid plot device. Honestly, what the hell were they thinking? I would love Craig's portrayal to be more like it was pre Spectre though.
    How do we know Bond has a terrible memory and Blofeld made the whole thing up?

  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited February 2017 Posts: 10,591
    Bounine wrote: »
    I'd love Craig to return but I'm not keen on Mendes.

    I really feel like this damn foster brother revelation has tainted the series though. What a completely stupid plot device. Honestly, what the hell were they thinking? I would love Craig's portrayal to be more like it was pre Spectre though.
    It would have been much more tolerable had they not chose to cut out the interesting bits.
  • QuantumOrganizationQuantumOrganization We have people everywhere
    Posts: 1,187
    What were those? Bond and Oberhausen playing poker? Masquerade Ball? Tanner's Suicide?
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited February 2017 Posts: 10,591
    QuantumOrganization wrote: »
    What were those? Bond and Oberhausen playing poker? Masquerade Ball? Tanner's Suicide?
    Hell no. Those were all awful.

    What I was referring to was the additional elements of Blofeld's backstory, that I believe were in an earlier version of P+W's draft. It involved Franz joining a platoon in the French Foreign Legion called Les Spectres de St. Pierre sometime in the early 1990s. Among the platoon was Mr. White. While partaking in a battle in the Moroccan dessert, a major sandstorm occurs that ends with Oberhauser and White being left for dead by the rest of their platoon. Waltz assumed the name Ernst Stavro Blofeld and, together with Mr. White, formed a crime syndicate called "SPECTRE."
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