No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,392
    Getafix wrote: »
    The actual OP PTS is a bit lame.

    Do me a favour.

    'Fill her up please' and an impossibly smug grin? Utterky sublime Rog.

    In fact of the Rog era there's only TSWLM or MR that rival it and MR's incredible stuntwork is let down a bit by the Jaws debacle.

    I love OP and think it's got a good case for the most underrated film of the series but I agree with @Getafix here. The PTS itself is fine but I think it feels more tacked on than any other, we don't even get the "where's 007" moment or some small link to the plot, it literally has nothing to do with the rest of the film. It's unnecessary and is only there for the sake of box ticking, a big action scene at the start just because that's what the audience had come to expect. If OP had been made ten years earlier the film definitely would have opened with the clown hunt and been all the better for it imo. That's a brilliantly tense scene and would have made a great, ballsy opening.

    At least it's a good sequence in itself though. FYEO has the same problem but with a PTS that's actually offensively awful.

    Brilliant post. Reflects my own view, even down to OP being underrated on the whole. I really hope they find the courage in future to open a Bond film with something a little less balls out. I enjoy a cold open, but there's no need for such gratuitous and OTT action at the very start. There are subtler ways of going about it, without being any less thrilling.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Getafix wrote: »
    The actual OP PTS is a bit lame.

    Do me a favour.

    'Fill her up please' and an impossibly smug grin? Utterky sublime Rog.

    In fact of the Rog era there's only TSWLM or MR that rival it and MR's incredible stuntwork is let down a bit by the Jaws debacle.

    I love OP and think it's got a good case for the most underrated film of the series but I agree with @Getafix here. The PTS itself is fine but I think it feels more tacked on than any other, we don't even get the "where's 007" moment or some small link to the plot, it literally has nothing to do with the rest of the film. It's unnecessary and is only there for the sake of box ticking, a big action scene at the start just because that's what the audience had come to expect. If OP had been made ten years earlier the film definitely would have opened with the clown hunt and been all the better for it imo. That's a brilliantly tense scene and would have made a great, ballsy opening.

    At least it's a good sequence in itself though. FYEO has the same problem but with a PTS that's actually offensively awful.

    Can't disagree with a word you say there to be fair. But anyone suggesting I sacrifice 10 mins of Rog at the absolute peak of his powers for a better narrative drive to the film can, in the immortal words of Roy Keane, shove it up their bollocks.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Getafix wrote: »
    The actual OP PTS is a bit lame.

    Do me a favour.

    'Fill her up please' and an impossibly smug grin? Utterky sublime Rog.

    In fact of the Rog era there's only TSWLM or MR that rival it and MR's incredible stuntwork is let down a bit by the Jaws debacle.

    I love OP and think it's got a good case for the most underrated film of the series but I agree with @Getafix here. The PTS itself is fine but I think it feels more tacked on than any other, we don't even get the "where's 007" moment or some small link to the plot, it literally has nothing to do with the rest of the film. It's unnecessary and is only there for the sake of box ticking, a big action scene at the start just because that's what the audience had come to expect. If OP had been made ten years earlier the film definitely would have opened with the clown hunt and been all the better for it imo. That's a brilliantly tense scene and would have made a great, ballsy opening.

    At least it's a good sequence in itself though. FYEO has the same problem but with a PTS that's actually offensively awful.

    Can't disagree with a word you say there to be fair. But anyone suggesting I sacrifice 10 mins of Rog at the absolute peak of his powers for a better narrative drive to the film can, in the immortal words of Roy Keane, shove it up their bollocks.
    Couldn't have said it better myself. Theoretically this is all fine and good, but in actuality the OP PTS is Roger Moore at his confident and classic best, and I wouldn't want to pass that up for anything.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,392
    Narrative drive has been left to one side for way too long, IMO. If it weren't for QoS, each Craig entry would 2 hrs 20+. There's no reason why that should be becoming the standard for a Bond film. All it does is make a rod for their own back, needing to insert more needless action in order to keep people hooked. A tight story wouldn't require so much filler to maintain interest.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited June 2017 Posts: 9,117
    Narrative drive has been left to one side for way too long, IMO. If it weren't for QoS, each Craig entry would 2 hrs 20+. There's no reason why that should be becoming the standard for a Bond film. All it does is make a rod for their own back, needing to insert more needless action in order to keep people hooked. A tight story wouldn't require so much filler to maintain interest.

    Yes but the problems with the Craig era (mostly we're talking the Mendes era really) are based on subpar action (although QOS the bigger offender here) and tiresome character navel gazing.

    The OP PTS is sheer entertainment and getting rid of it might make for a taughter thriller but it would also make the world a slightly less enjoyable place.

    It's not all about character arcs Sam sometimes it's about Bond winking at a guard to look at a bird showing a bit of leg then pulling his ripcord before climbing into a horsebox and flying a tiny jet out the back of it.

    And after that bit of opening fun OP gets on with it building from that dark post titles sequence to the most tension filled climax of the series. Lack of narrative drive is not a problem with OP.

    SP collapsed under the critical mass of its character arcs so isn't it time we just had an unashamed balls out entry where Bond saves the world and has a blast doing it?

  • Posts: 16,149
    I believe Glen said in an interview once that TSWLM PTS had set a new standard and they had to at least attempt to come up with something exciting with each new film. The OP PTS is one of my favorites and I like the fact it isn't connected to the main plot. In fact I'd love to see B25 open with a PTS that showcases Bond's previous assignment and isn't shoehorned into the main plot in some way.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    bondjames wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    The actual OP PTS is a bit lame.

    Do me a favour.

    'Fill her up please' and an impossibly smug grin? Utterky sublime Rog.

    In fact of the Rog era there's only TSWLM or MR that rival it and MR's incredible stuntwork is let down a bit by the Jaws debacle.

    I love OP and think it's got a good case for the most underrated film of the series but I agree with @Getafix here. The PTS itself is fine but I think it feels more tacked on than any other, we don't even get the "where's 007" moment or some small link to the plot, it literally has nothing to do with the rest of the film. It's unnecessary and is only there for the sake of box ticking, a big action scene at the start just because that's what the audience had come to expect. If OP had been made ten years earlier the film definitely would have opened with the clown hunt and been all the better for it imo. That's a brilliantly tense scene and would have made a great, ballsy opening.

    At least it's a good sequence in itself though. FYEO has the same problem but with a PTS that's actually offensively awful.

    Can't disagree with a word you say there to be fair. But anyone suggesting I sacrifice 10 mins of Rog at the absolute peak of his powers for a better narrative drive to the film can, in the immortal words of Roy Keane, shove it up their bollocks.
    Couldn't have said it better myself. Theoretically this is all fine and good, but in actuality the OP PTS is Roger Moore at his confident and classic best, and I wouldn't want to pass that up for anything.

    Agreed. Excellent and explosive mini adventure in the vein of GF.
  • Posts: 11,425
    I love OP but the PTS is not one of my favourites. Never a fan of fake stunts like the plane flying through the closing gates. The whole tone of it is just a bit naff. Very naff.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    What does this have to do with Bond 25?
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Getafix wrote: »
    I love OP but the PTS is not one of my favourites. Never a fan of fake stunts like the plane flying through the closing gates. The whole tone of it is just a bit naff. Very naff.

    I let you off with the Broz bashing, but this stunt is fantastically realised. Sorry son, you're talking bollocks with this one. Nitpicking for the sake of it in my book.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    I'm interested in what constitutes a 'fake stunt'. Is the freefall in MR fake because they have hidden chutes? The Astro spiral roll fake because they worked it out on computers?

    Even the ski jump they had to wait for weeks for the right weather conditions.

    Agreed OP is not the best PTS but Rog in his pomp, a fabulous gadget and some pretty decent action (not to mention the best use of foreground miniatures ever - apart from the bridge in TLD where it is literally impossible to see the join) make it a far from the worst.
  • edited June 2017 Posts: 12,837
    RC7 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    The actual OP PTS is a bit lame.

    Do me a favour.

    'Fill her up please' and an impossibly smug grin? Utterky sublime Rog.

    In fact of the Rog era there's only TSWLM or MR that rival it and MR's incredible stuntwork is let down a bit by the Jaws debacle.

    I love OP and think it's got a good case for the most underrated film of the series but I agree with @Getafix here. The PTS itself is fine but I think it feels more tacked on than any other, we don't even get the "where's 007" moment or some small link to the plot, it literally has nothing to do with the rest of the film. It's unnecessary and is only there for the sake of box ticking, a big action scene at the start just because that's what the audience had come to expect. If OP had been made ten years earlier the film definitely would have opened with the clown hunt and been all the better for it imo. That's a brilliantly tense scene and would have made a great, ballsy opening.

    At least it's a good sequence in itself though. FYEO has the same problem but with a PTS that's actually offensively awful.

    Can't disagree with a word you say there to be fair. But anyone suggesting I sacrifice 10 mins of Rog at the absolute peak of his powers for a better narrative drive to the film can, in the immortal words of Roy Keane, shove it up their bollocks.
    Couldn't have said it better myself. Theoretically this is all fine and good, but in actuality the OP PTS is Roger Moore at his confident and classic best, and I wouldn't want to pass that up for anything.

    Agreed. Excellent and explosive mini adventure in the vein of GF.

    I'm finding it hard to argue with any of you on this as I do enjoy the PTS itself. But I think that Moore was on top form for the whole film (it's his best performance and he has lots of great moments to shine imo) so while it's a cool sequence, I still don't think it'd be that big a loss in the grand scheme of things and I still think that the clown killing would have made for a much better PTS.

    Maybe we could have had a best of both worlds scenario ala TSWLM and MR? Open with the death of 009. Then show M finding out and wanting Bond on the case. Then "Moneypenny where's 007?". Then we cut to Cuba.
    Getafix wrote: »
    The actual OP PTS is a bit lame.

    Do me a favour.

    'Fill her up please' and an impossibly smug grin? Utterky sublime Rog.

    In fact of the Rog era there's only TSWLM or MR that rival it and MR's incredible stuntwork is let down a bit by the Jaws debacle.

    I love OP and think it's got a good case for the most underrated film of the series but I agree with @Getafix here. The PTS itself is fine but I think it feels more tacked on than any other, we don't even get the "where's 007" moment or some small link to the plot, it literally has nothing to do with the rest of the film. It's unnecessary and is only there for the sake of box ticking, a big action scene at the start just because that's what the audience had come to expect. If OP had been made ten years earlier the film definitely would have opened with the clown hunt and been all the better for it imo. That's a brilliantly tense scene and would have made a great, ballsy opening.

    At least it's a good sequence in itself though. FYEO has the same problem but with a PTS that's actually offensively awful.

    Brilliant post. Reflects my own view, even down to OP being underrated on the whole. I really hope they find the courage in future to open a Bond film with something a little less balls out. I enjoy a cold open, but there's no need for such gratuitous and OTT action at the very start. There are subtler ways of going about it, without being any less thrilling.

    I think OTT action at the start is fine as long as it doesn't feel tacked on. There should be some sort of link no matter how vague imo (even GF has Bond leaving for Miami at the end, and TSWLM and MR both set up the main plot beforehand and then show that M wants Bond on the case before cutting to him finishing up his current mission).

    My favourite PTS is probably TWINE. I know people think it goes on too long but I disagree. The bankers office is a fine opening in itself but when we go back to London we know there's more to come because we haven't had the titles yet. So the tension escalates until MI6 blows up (which at the time was a great unexpected idea, Bond being attacked on home turf) and then we get some great OTT action with the boat chase and finally cigar girl selling Renard as a credible threat before we know anything about him or even have seen him on screen. Fantastic stuff.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    jake24 wrote: »
    What does this have to do with Bond 25?

    We can discuss B25 in the pts thread.
  • edited June 2017 Posts: 11,425
    I'm interested in what constitutes a 'fake stunt'. Is the freefall in MR fake because they have hidden chutes? The Astro spiral roll fake because they worked it out on computers?

    Even the ski jump they had to wait for weeks for the right weather conditions.

    Agreed OP is not the best PTS but Rog in his pomp, a fabulous gadget and some pretty decent action (not to mention the best use of foreground miniatures ever - apart from the bridge in TLD where it is literally impossible to see the join) make it a far from the worst.

    May be I'm wrong but I didn't think the mini jet plane actually flies through the hangar? It looks like a full size mock up being rolled through. So it's not a 'real stunt'.

    All the skydiving Bond stuntwork is of course amazing. It's done for 'real'.

    I guess by fake I mean that someone is not actually doing it for real, like Bond catching up with the plane in GE, or even worse the kite surfing in dad. Real stunts involve a real stuntman doing what we see for real, with minimal (preferably zero) digital touch up etc.

    Fairly straightforward definition.

    But happy to be proved wrong about the OP PTS.


  • Posts: 1,031
    Getafix wrote: »
    I'm interested in what constitutes a 'fake stunt'. Is the freefall in MR fake because they have hidden chutes? The Astro spiral roll fake because they worked it out on computers?

    Even the ski jump they had to wait for weeks for the right weather conditions.

    Agreed OP is not the best PTS but Rog in his pomp, a fabulous gadget and some pretty decent action (not to mention the best use of foreground miniatures ever - apart from the bridge in TLD where it is literally impossible to see the join) make it a far from the worst.
    I'm interested in what constitutes a 'fake stunt'. Is the freefall in MR fake because they have hidden chutes? The Astro spiral roll fake because they worked it out on computers?

    Even the ski jump they had to wait for weeks for the right weather conditions.

    Agreed OP is not the best PTS but Rog in his pomp, a fabulous gadget and some pretty decent action (not to mention the best use of foreground miniatures ever - apart from the bridge in TLD where it is literally impossible to see the join) make it a far from the worst.

    May be I'm wrong but I didnt think the plane actually flies through the hangar, or did they actually do it for real?

    They attached it to a car by a pole and drove it thru, using the extras to try and cover the pole. If you look closely you can clearly see the pole.
  • edited June 2017 Posts: 11,425
    Dennison wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    I'm interested in what constitutes a 'fake stunt'. Is the freefall in MR fake because they have hidden chutes? The Astro spiral roll fake because they worked it out on computers?

    Even the ski jump they had to wait for weeks for the right weather conditions.

    Agreed OP is not the best PTS but Rog in his pomp, a fabulous gadget and some pretty decent action (not to mention the best use of foreground miniatures ever - apart from the bridge in TLD where it is literally impossible to see the join) make it a far from the worst.
    I'm interested in what constitutes a 'fake stunt'. Is the freefall in MR fake because they have hidden chutes? The Astro spiral roll fake because they worked it out on computers?

    Even the ski jump they had to wait for weeks for the right weather conditions.

    Agreed OP is not the best PTS but Rog in his pomp, a fabulous gadget and some pretty decent action (not to mention the best use of foreground miniatures ever - apart from the bridge in TLD where it is literally impossible to see the join) make it a far from the worst.

    May be I'm wrong but I didnt think the plane actually flies through the hangar, or did they actually do it for real?

    They attached it to a car by a pole and drove it thru, using the extras to try and cover the pole. If you look closely you can clearly see the pole.

    That's what I thought.

    Putting this kind of movie trickery in the same category as the incredible skydiving work doesn't make sense.

    Any way, to bring it back more on topic, this is an area where they need to up their game for B25 IMO. It seems totally out of fashion currently, but I see no reason why traditional stuntwork cannot continue to have a major impact as it did in the past.

    I suspect a lot of audiences are bored of CGI and implausible trickery on screen and that some more parred back, real looking genuine stuntwork would go down well with much of the audience.

    It does need to be well directed and coordinated though. As we've seen in SF and SP, badly done action is mind numbing.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    Amazing.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Getafix wrote: »
    I suspect a lot of audiences are bored of CGI and implausible trickery on screen and that some more parred back, real looking genuine stuntwork would go down well with much of the audience.
    Agreed. I sincerely hope for a return to quality stunt work and interesting action in the next film. It's not so much about the scale of it as it is the sense of danger, unpredictability and pacing. As you said, it must look genuine and be plausible. I don't need to see building collapses that look fake. I would like to see tense non linear sequences that involve multiple vehicles. Or something suspenseful in a famous landmark location (like the Karnak Temple & Pyramids sequences in TSWLM).
  • bondjames wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    I suspect a lot of audiences are bored of CGI and implausible trickery on screen and that some more parred back, real looking genuine stuntwork would go down well with much of the audience.
    Agreed. I sincerely hope for a return to quality stunt work and interesting action in the next film. It's not so much about the scale of it as it is the sense of danger, unpredictability and pacing. As you said, it must look genuine and be plausible. I don't need to see building collapses that look fake. I would like to see tense non linear sequences that involve multiple vehicles. Or something suspenseful in a famous landmark location (like the Karnak Temple & Pyramids sequences in TSWLM).

    Completely agreed.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Have they ever used Angkor Wat?

    Seems to be so much untapped in terms of locations.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Getafix wrote: »
    Have they ever used Angkor Wat?

    Seems to be so much untapped in terms of locations.

    The authorities probably don t want a film production to enter that place. The bloody tourists represent enough potential for damage.
  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    Posts: 3,126
    If we don't here anything by August or the latest fall I think Craig is done
  • Posts: 1,162
    007Blofeld wrote: »
    If we don't here anything by August or the latest fall I think Craig is done

    I'm not even sure he has ever been asked. Didn't Mark Strong hint in an interview at the possibility when he said, that the powers to be had decided his time in the tux was over?
  • Posts: 1,031
    Que sera, sera
    Whatever will be, will be
    The future's not ours to see
    Que sera, sera
    What will be, will be
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,392
    Yes, I believe a few over enthusiastic Craig fans take what Barbara and Micheal said at the SPECTRE premiere a little too seriously. Of course they're gonna say they will do everything to get him back. These are the kinds of platitudes we should take for granted. It's not like they were at the premiere for Die Another Day, dropping all sorts of hints about how they wanted someone else in the role. That's just not professional.

    We except that 90% of what comes out of Barbara and Micheal's mouth at these red carpet events is producer speak, purposefully designed to be uncontroversial, but then when they mention they will do anything to keep Craig, we gobble it up. Remember, they are just coming up with things to say that reassure people that the franchise is stable and everything is going swimmingly. If they were thinking about replacing their lead actor, they certainly wouldn't allude to it at one of these events, years before the process has begun.
  • edited June 2017 Posts: 5,767
    I'm interested in what constitutes a 'fake stunt'. Is the freefall in MR fake because they have hidden chutes? The Astro spiral roll fake because they worked it out on computers?

    Even the ski jump they had to wait for weeks for the right weather conditions.

    Agreed OP is not the best PTS but Rog in his pomp, a fabulous gadget and some pretty decent action (not to mention the best use of foreground miniatures ever - apart from the bridge in TLD where it is literally impossible to see the join) make it a far from the worst.
    Not to mention that they pulled it off successfully to have a shot in OP´s PTS where the plane flies belly up simply due to the frame being upside down. You can even see that the clouds are suddenly at the bottom of the frame. Fantastic stuff! The combination of cohones and chops needed to pull that off the way they did would be very useful in future Bond films.

  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    Posts: 3,126
    Yes, I believe a few over enthusiastic Craig fans take what Barbara and Micheal said at the SPECTRE premiere a little too seriously. Of course they're gonna say they will do everything to get him back. These are the kinds of platitudes we should take for granted. It's not like they were at the premiere for Die Another Day, dropping all sorts of hints about how they wanted someone else in the role. That's just not professional.

    We except that 90% of what comes out of Barbara and Micheal's mouth at these red carpet events is producer speak, purposefully designed to be uncontroversial, but then when they mention they will do anything to keep Craig, we gobble it up. Remember, they are just coming up with things to say that reassure people that the franchise is stable and everything is going swimmingly. If they were thinking about replacing their lead actor, they certainly wouldn't allude to it at one of these events, years before the process has begun.

    Barbara would have asked him by now you don't just take two years or more away from bond and he is getting up in age
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Getafix wrote: »

    Any way, to bring it back more on topic, this is an area where they need to up their game for B25 IMO. It seems totally out of fashion currently, but I see no reason why traditional stuntwork cannot continue to have a major impact as it did in the past.

    I suspect a lot of audiences are bored of CGI and implausible trickery on screen and that some more parred back, real looking genuine stuntwork would go down well with much of the audience.

    It does need to be well directed and coordinated though. As we've seen in SF and SP, badly done action is mind numbing.

    Finally we concur on something.

    What would we say is the last truly fantastic Bond stunt?

    I'd probably have to go for the CR crane jump (which may well have been done for real but also used trickery). That's over a decade and 3 and half films ago now.

    That's unacceptable frankly. Bond built it's reputation on having the best action in the business because it was innovative, spectacular and 90% done for real. Put the money up on the screen and not up in smoke via stupid explosions EON.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489

    What would we say is the last truly fantastic Bond stunt?

    I'd probably have to go for the CR crane jump (which may well have been done for real but also used trickery). That's over a decade and 3 and half films ago now.



    That s the one. I am hoping for something equally eye-catching in the next one. (The Aston stunt wasn t bad either)
  • Yes, I believe a few over enthusiastic Craig fans take what Barbara and Micheal said at the SPECTRE premiere a little too seriously. Of course they're gonna say they will do everything to get him back. These are the kinds of platitudes we should take for granted. It's not like they were at the premiere for Die Another Day, dropping all sorts of hints about how they wanted someone else in the role. That's just not professional.

    We except that 90% of what comes out of Barbara and Micheal's mouth at these red carpet events is producer speak, purposefully designed to be uncontroversial, but then when they mention they will do anything to keep Craig, we gobble it up. Remember, they are just coming up with things to say that reassure people that the franchise is stable and everything is going swimmingly. If they were thinking about replacing their lead actor, they certainly wouldn't allude to it at one of these events, years before the process has begun.

    Some fans also say they've got a crew and cast all ready to go and everything will roll out as soon as MGM signs a distribution deal.
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