No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    007Blofeld wrote: »

    Same "rumor" that was posted yesterday - they guessed on a 2018 date to add credibility to the rumor.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited June 2017 Posts: 6,304
    Yes, you would think once they discovered what a brilliant actress Berenice was the creative team might have said to themselves, how can we better use her? What do we really gain by killing her character off here? Anything? We don't? Okay, maybe we should write her into the third act, she's obviously one of the better things the film has going for it.

    This is a good post. Berenice does elevate the film considerably. Her introduction at the skyscraper window is quite impressive, and since the film really loses momentum as soon as Silva is captured, perhaps she could have factored more into the second half.

    Why does Mendes cast the secondary Bond women so much better than the leads?
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,889
    Yes, you would think once they discovered what a brilliant actress Berenice was the creative team might have said to themselves, how can we better use her? What do we really gain by killing her character off here? Anything? We don't? Okay, maybe we should write her into the third act, she's obviously one of the better things the film has going for it.

    It shows us what a cold-hearted bastard Bond has become post Vesper, and I love it.

    Marlohe is a fantastic actress and Mendes made great use of her in the few scenes that she had.

    Having said that, this isn't the right thread to talk about SF's use of Sévérine. People here should either talk about B25 or don't post at all. It's that simple.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    What I would love to see in the next Bond film is a pure Good vs Evil story without any complicated bureaucracy coming in the way and sparking a confusion between "friends and enemies". All those moles/double/rogue agents and trust issues should be shelved for a long time.

    See, since November 2015, we've had at least five graphic novels offering us a story of sort, without Bond having to develop a mistrust of his work colleagues. So, why are we constantly getting dragged into that territory since Casino Royale?

    Christopher McQuarrie, albeit for a different purpose, said on the recent development of the upcoming Mission: Impossible film that he didn't want to repeat painting the image of the previous two films and strive for something different before it would get tiresome, whereas in the Craig era, we're dealing, in all the four films, with the subject of trust issues, insider antagonists, moles, personal angles, hence I have a very strong wish for Bond 25 to just drop all of these and move to a different category in the way.
  • Posts: 1,162
    Yes, you would think once they discovered what a brilliant actress Berenice was the creative team might have said to themselves, how can we better use her? What do we really gain by killing her character off here? Anything? We don't? Okay, maybe we should write her into the third act, she's obviously one of the better things the film has going for it.

    Actually this probably wouldn't have been necessary. According to P&W SF deviated a lot from their original script from that point on that bond arrives in Tokyo. It stands to reason that they would have, for the sake of a classical bond movie have given her a much larger role. I dare to say "much" because look at her! Is she a smoking hot stunner or what?
  • Posts: 11,425
    May be because he never goes to Tokyo
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Where they perhaps could do better with the casting is to actually cast more locals from the locations they are visiting in prominent roles. As an example, the Shanghai section of SF perhaps could have been expanded to include a more important role for a local actor. Similarly Morocco and Mexico (one line by Sigman doesn't count) in SP.

    What are you suggesting here? That the already bloated running time of SF be further extended by having an utterly pointless scene where Bond meets head of Station C China played by a Chinese actor who says something like, 'We have confirmed that Patrice will be landing at 1700hrs on KLM flight 235'? Ok its slightly better than the Sony Xperia advert scene that they have in the bar but is this all that diversity means? Just a token nod to some particular group with a line here and a line there and then get on with the story? Seems utterly patronising to everyone involved.
    I'm suggesting that when a multi-$m production visits a foreign land for filming, it use the local talent where possible as prominently as possible. It would provide for a more authentic viewing experience.

    As I said, I realize it's not that easy to do given the way they film it these days (almost momentary flashes of landmarks). I would have expanded the Shanghai section of SF not for the sole purpose of adding a local actor (there were a few peeps in the casino after all, and let's not forget those two security guards who were killed by Patrice), but more because it was an interesting travelogue part of the film. Of course given SF's already bloated run time, this is probably unrealistic as you note.

    The 2nd part of my earlier post clarifies my position on this. I'd prefer no more cursory flash in the pan location visits. Rather, immerse in the spot one visits like in the old days, and then use the local talent where possible. Let the film breathe more in one place and let's get a feel for the locals & their culture. That way we get diversity and we also get a vicarious cultural experience, like in the old days.

    Bingo!
  • QuantumOrganizationQuantumOrganization We have people everywhere
    Posts: 1,187
    Anyone wanna have a betting game on what month we'll hear real news?
  • Posts: 1,162
    Yes, you would think once they discovered what a brilliant actress Berenice was the creative team might have said to themselves, how can we better use her? What do we really gain by killing her character off here? Anything? We don't? Okay, maybe we should write her into the third act, she's obviously one of the better things the film has going for it.

    It shows us what a cold-hearted bastard Bond has become post Vesper, and I love it.

    Still it doesn't have anything to do with Mr. Fleming's creation. This is one of the very few moments in the franchise where it doesn't matter if you are talking about the bond of the novels or the movies. Both would have been deeply disgusted and would have had no calms of expressing it.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,399
    What I would love to see in the next Bond film is a pure Good vs Evil story without any complicated bureaucracy coming in the way and sparking a confusion between "friends and enemies". All those moles/double/rogue agents and trust issues should be shelved for a long time.

    See, since November 2015, we've had at least five graphic novels offering us a story of sort, without Bond having to develop a mistrust of his work colleagues. So, why are we constantly getting dragged into that territory since Casino Royale?

    Christopher McQuarrie, albeit for a different purpose, said on the recent development of the upcoming Mission: Impossible film that he didn't want to repeat painting the image of the previous two films and strive for something different before it would get tiresome, whereas in the Craig era, we're dealing, in all the four films, with the subject of trust issues, insider antagonists, moles, personal angles, hence I have a very strong wish for Bond 25 to just drop all of these and move to a different category in the way.

    100% agree.
  • edited June 2017 Posts: 11,425
    That moment felt out of character to me. It's a very difficult scene to read though. Certainly all previous incarnations of the character would have reacted with open disgust towards Silva.

    I assume that we're supposed to believe Bond is actually totally disgusted but just hides that because he's got a 'bigger plan'. But it's not really clear how we're supposed to take it.

    I seem to remember that Bond looks slightly disapproving
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2017 Posts: 23,883
    As long as Bond remains white for B25 and after I'll be quite happy.

    They can have all the racial diversity they want with other characters to make a point, although I'd appreciate an MP recast pronto (not because I have anything against Harris on a colour basis mind you - I just think she's wrong for the role). Get Gugu Mbatha-Raw for the role, or even as a Bond girl next time out.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Gugu Mbatha-Raw as Moneypenny? I can't see that myself as she's too talented and especially moreso too attractive for the role. She's lead Bond girl calibre imo.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Gugu Mbatha-Raw as Moneypenny? I can't see that myself as she's too talented and especially moreso too attractive for the role. She's lead Bond girl calibre imo.
    The same arguably could be said of Harris. I'd be perfectly fine with her as lead Bond girl too.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    I like Harris as Moneypenny, especially now that she is in the field in a secretarial capacity. It would be a shame to loose her at this point.
  • edited June 2017 Posts: 11,425
    Yes I can live with Harris. Didn't like her role in SF at all but SP was relatively okay.

    SP got MP and Q largely right I'd say, while clearly fluffing Brofeld quite badly.
  • Yes, you would think once they discovered what a brilliant actress Berenice was the creative team might have said to themselves, how can we better use her? What do we really gain by killing her character off here? Anything? We don't? Okay, maybe we should write her into the third act, she's obviously one of the better things the film has going for it.

    It shows us what a cold-hearted bastard Bond has become post Vesper, and I love it.

    Marlohe is a fantastic actress and Mendes made great use of her in the few scenes that she had.

    Having said that, this isn't the right thread to talk about SF's use of Sévérine. People here should either talk about B25 or don't post at all. It's that simple.

    Are you seriously going to nitpick at me with all the non-B25 chaos raining down on this thread right now?

    It was a peripheral comment responding to someone's thoughts on my previous comment that was directly related to the larger conversation. Much the same as YOURS was just now. Think I'll put on my Taffin shades and give a big, "Then maybe neither of us should be posting HERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRE!!!"
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Something came to mind given the race discussion we've been having on this thread.

    Now that Felix and MP have been played by a black actor and actress respectively, if the roles are recast for B25, should they remain so?

    Or can an actor of Middle Eastern, Indian or Chinese descent (or even a white actress again for that matter) play MP in the future for instance? I would hope so, but one wonders if this will create a media controversy.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited June 2017 Posts: 15,423
    They made M and Moneypenny black in the comics, but Felix is reverted back to white.

    And no, I don't think it should remain so. Like the case was with Harvey Dent in the Batman films, a change of "race" shouldn't be a problem. All I'll say, though, is that I'd rather the characters remain true to their heritage and outlines. No "conversion" needed unless we're talking about their personalities and attitudes.
  • edited June 2017 Posts: 2,107
    In answer to these rumors that Eon is thinking of creating their own Bond cinematic universe. No. Just no.

    This is not a franchise of superheroes. There's no one character other thand Bond I'd want to see. Felix, Moneypenny, Q, M or even Tanner. That would not honestly work.

    Back in the day they would contemplate on working a stand alone film with Michelle Yeoh, that might have worked. But who is interesting enough to warrant his/her own stand alone movie today?. None I think.

    So I hope it's just a rumor and will NEVER happen.

    Don't try to ape MCU, like every studio these days.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited June 2017 Posts: 9,117
    Getafix wrote: »
    Yes I can live with Harris. Didn't like her role in SF at all but SP was relatively okay.

    I am also reasonably happy with her if she could:
    a) stay behind her desk
    b) say her lines a bit more naturally instead of forcing everything a bit.

    And stop that wanky 'cheeky/flirty' music that accompanies her scenes with Bond. I'm hoping, given that we've surely seen the last of Newman, that this is something I don't need to worry about any more.
    Getafix wrote: »
    SP got MP and Q largely right I'd say, while clearly fluffing Brofeld quite badly.

    Don't forget Tanner!! They absolutely nailed him. Well they would have if Fleming had written, 'Bill Tanner was one of those men that people didn't notice. When he walked into a room no one ever looked up. Bond tolerated his feeble, weak as American beer banter but he certainly never took up Tanner's invitations to play golf and he most definitely did not regard himself as Tanner's best friend in the service. Bond felt pity for the man as he watched him riding home on his foldable bicycle every night from the comfortable luxury of the Aston.'
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited June 2017 Posts: 15,423
    Moneypenny, Q, Tanner, Felix, M and whatever won't work on their own because they're supporting characters.

    Iron Man, Captain America and whoever getting standalone movies are created to be protagonists whereas the former collective above aren't.

    Imagine if they made a movie about Iron Man's artificial intelligence butler, J.A.R.V.I.S. or Batman's butler, Alfred Pennyworth. These characters are written to move a story forward, support and serve. Not be in the center of it.

    Seriously, what on Earth are they going to write a movie about involving Q? Memoirs of a secret service technician?

    The only way they can expand the Bond universe is to come up with a protagonist that has a strong character to stand on its own. Not use existing supporting characters because none of them has any presence whatsoever the way Bond does. He is the protagonist of his universe and that's the way it is.

    Oh, and by the way, an expanded Bond universe in films won't happen. In prose or graphic novels, they might and have had. But, not on film. Ever.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,399
    Moneypenny, Q, Tanner, Felix, M and whatever won't work on their own because they're supporting characters.

    Same goes for Han Solo.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Moneypenny, Q, Tanner, Felix, M and whatever won't work on their own because they're supporting characters.

    Same goes for Han Solo.
    I can agree with that.
  • edited June 2017 Posts: 676
    Speaking of diversity... Would love to see Chiwetel Ejiofor as a villain in a future film. EON needs to make this happen. (And I would be happy to never see German Midget Brofeld again.)
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    Blofeld as an African warlord would have been a lot better than what we got.

    For Bond 25, if Blofeld comes back, I hope they kill him off. They can always bring on a descendant in a future film a la For Special Services.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,216
    I want to see Idris Elba as a Bond villain. On every level, he would make a great adversary for Craig's Bond. and what a climatic fight that could be.
  • Posts: 676
    @talos7 Great idea. I would love to see that, and to see Craig against a main villain who's a physical match for him.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    talos7 wrote: »
    I want to see Idris Elba as a Bond villain. On every level, he would make a great adversary for Craig's Bond. and what a climatic fight that could be.

    Agreed. Going back to the African Warlord for a second; ditch the whole he's Blofeld rubbish and that would have been a great angle. Has anyone else seen Beasts of no nation? What a phenomenal film. Elba killed in that and if EoN did decide to tell a Bond film with an African Warlord as the main villain, casting Elba will only punctuate a casting coup.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,216
    Yes, and have him as a powerful, sophisticated , charming foe who is sane other than being fiercely ambitious and willing to whatever it takes to obtain his goals, whatever they might be. Unlike Mendes' two villains, Elba's would not have a quirky, silly side; he would be smart, cool and deadly.
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