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And her chemistry with Craig didn't exist.
Them "falling in love" was embarrassing to watch, unfortunately. It just didn't feel "real". On the contrary, and especially, in their scene after the dispatching of Hinx, it looked like two actors, in very nice costumes, playing out a scene in drama class...
I don't think Maddy ever has to come up again. Imagine in a few years time: B25 has been released on Blu-ray. Some of us will watch Sp first, with Bond driving off in the DB5. Then, we'll pop B25 in. The story begins. Hopefully action, romance, and some great escapisms plays out before us. Roll credits, and...
... no one will even think about Maddy. At this point, she will just be the girl Bond drives off with at the end of one of the films. Just another Bond girl. That's it. There's no need to ever mention her again.
They were going for something special with her; may've even looked good on paper. But it didn't work out. Move on from her, like any of the women in 007's life (except, of course, the two big ones).
Why would they? Criticism of SP and B25 story ideas are entirely different subjects.
This.
4 years down the line they'll be lucky if the public even remember Blofeld didnt die. They certainly wont remember Maddy. They can use this to their advantage - why perform contortions with the script to dig themselves out of this hole when they can just carry on with a standard Bond film and 99.99% of the audience wont even notice?
Look at DAF - Didn't even acknowledge the fact Bond's wife was killed a mere 2 years ago and did anyone bat an eyelid?
Give the audience a rip snorting TSWLM style feel good PTS to show Bond is very definitely back and by the time the opening titles start even the odd few who might have remembered who Maddy is will have forgotten her.
While there is nothing concrete to suggest that Craig's Bond has quit, I think there are some obvious parallels between SP and CR. Most notably the lines "Just because you've done something, doesn't mean you have to keep doing it" from CR, and "what do you think would happen if you did?" "Stop?" "Yes" "I don't know" from SP. There's a clear mirroring there, and since Madeline isn't killed at the end like Vesper was, the implication is that he is finally getting a second chance at the life he had wanted for himself. There is also the connection that Bond's spiritual mission of avenging Vesper is essentially done with. Of course all these doors are left ajar, one because the script was a rushed mess and leaving things ambiguous was less risky than saying something definitive, and two because they didn't know if Craig would return.
The FRWL comparison you make doesn't really hold up for me. It's nothing like the same relationship. Tatiana has been given a mission (at least she thinks), she is being manipulated from all sides to get what they want. There is nothing in how the two are portrayed which suggests Bond is genuinely in love with this girl. In SP, there is a significance that Madeline has for Bond, outside of how she is useful to him. The way they are directed, it's clear they are supposed to be developing serious feeling for each other by the end, even if its never explicitly stated the type of dialogue is different.
What gave you that idea?
I think they should have just gone all in with the story. Either have him more deliberately leave at the end or don't go there at all with the suggestiveness and double meaning. After all, we know that 'all the time in the world' was contemplated originally too.
Having it dangle in the wind like a flaccid "" for 4 years is a bit tedious especially since his 'wrist slash' comments spurred a whole flurry of replacement actor discussions everywhere. It's like one big extended tease (makes the 'Harris isn't MP' or 'Waltz isn't Blofeld' discussions seem tame in comparison).
I think a lot of the general public expect the change now, and EON know it, which is why they've tried to walk it back and rebuild enthusiasm with 2-4 months of leaked stories about him contemplating a return etc. etc.
It was all completely avoidable at the end of the day.
Thanks, Wiz, for addressing something that's been a big pet peeve of mine: there's absolutely no reason to assume he's quit or that Madeline is unique.
Did anyone think Bond had quit the service all those other times that he switched off the radio, hung up the phone, or otherwise hid from his rescuers so that he could enjoy a slightly longer shag? When Rog cut short his call with Thatcher and gave his watch to the parrot at the end of FYEO, I don't remember thinking, "well, that's him gone then." Nor do I remember thinking, at the beginning of Moonraker, "wait, where's the parrot? And isn't Bond married to Melina now?"
They could say not a peep about Madeline ever again and the Bond world would keep humming along just fine.
No need for answers certainly. They can provide them when they want which is their prerogative. I'm more referring to the ending of SP. If it's really the end then it has significance and resonance. If not, then it sort of cheapens it (a big tease), at least imho.
So, we all know how Judi Dench survived the reboot as M, though an M of a different timeline. Okay, keep that in mind, because this is about to get all Metal Gear Solid 2 on us.
We open like Goldfinger, where we see Bond on a mission that is seemingly unrelated to the rest of the movie. He sneaks around, takes out some guards, plants a bomb. Only we never quite get a good look at his face... until, again like the PTS from Goldfinger, he finds a beautiful woman to make love to. The camera then reveals that this wasn't James Bond at all... but Sean Bean reprising his role as Alec Trevelyan, 006! Only he's not the
"surprise" villain this time, just another double-O agent on a mission.
He returns to Mi6, where M sends him to retrieve Bond. As other's have suggested, Madeline Swann pulled a Tiffany Case and broke up with James between the ending of Spectre and now. Bond, just like at the start of From Russia with Love, is in a bit of a listless funk. Not much of a stretch for Craig's Bond, but he is approached by 006 to return to Mi6. The reason? To quote YOLT, "This is the big one." Specifically, Spectre has returned in the absence of Blofeld and launching a new scheme. Blofeld has all but been abandoned by his former organization for making things too personal and compromising their integrity as a secret organization. Kind of like the original draft of TSWLM being about Blofeld being overthrown by Spectre agents who have grown disastified with his leadership.
This is why they need James Bond back. Christoph Waltz does make a return as Blofeld, but he takes on more of a Hannibal Lecter type role this time. Isolated in prison, perhaps even a bit deranged at this point, Blofeld is willing to betray Spectre just as they betrayed him, but only if his beloved James is one who speaks with him. A cliche, sure, but I'm a sucker for the classics.
From here I've lost most of the details, but the rest of mission plays out with 006 as Bond's ally (the twist this time is Sean Bean is neither a villain, nor does he die!) . Similar to OHMSS, in the middle of their mission they bump into Lucia Sciarra (Monica Bellucci) and she becomes our Bond girl midway through the movie (to make up for her minuscule appearance in Spectre). Although a bit comic book, eventually they uncover the hidden Spectre base where they must traverse a series of deathtraps designed by several Spectre operatives. Think something like the obstacle course that Dr. No puts Bond through in the book, or Scaramanga's funhouse of horror. They survive these trials, capture or kill the lead villain, we see the brotherly bond form between 006 and 007 (as a throwback to Goldeneye), and I dunno, maybe Daniel Craig marries Monica Bellucci. This would lead into...
Blofeld escaping prison. While Mi6 is occupied with Spectre's plot of world destruction, Mr. Hinx returns to bust his former employer out of his cell. Visibly scarred from the train fight from the previous movie, and as another throwback to Jaws, maybe even more of him is metal this time. Plus we can throw in that great line someone else here suggested in a previous thread, "Oh, allow me to introduce my chiropractor; Mr. Hinx!" Blofeld's escape would build up to our faithful adaptation of YOLT.
I apologize if this sounds a bit rambly, but now I'm prepared to be told this sounds like a bad fanfic. :)
Would sit oddly with the rest of the Craig era to do this. Plus I don't think Craig would agree to it. He will insist on some continuity and character development relating to the events of SP.
If that is very limited and doesn't dominate the story, I think I wouldn't mind. Otherwise I'd rather have a new actor take on the role.
What? SP production was a rushed mess. QoS production was a rushed mess. TND production was a rushed mess. DAD and TWINE are considered two lesser Bond films by most fans. The only other films produced by Barbara and Michael went through 4 years of gestation. I have no idea why you continue to come out to bat for EON, as if each film is a grand vision that they have planned to the last detail, until something inevitably out of their hands mucks it up. Can't catch a break these lot, eh? Best laid plans and all that. Fate isn't half cruel to this bunch of world class professionals.
Daniel Craig ‘signs up for two more James Bond films’ after being persuaded to return to franchise .
Daniel Craig has reportedly signed a contract to star in two more James Bond films after being persuaded by producers.
Despite being on the verge of quitting the franchise following the release of Spectre, the British actor is now expected to appear in two further 007 movies.
According to reports, Barbara Broccoli has been in negotiations with Craig to up his total to six films, including 2019’s recently announced Bond 25.
“There was plenty of talk about who would be the next Bond but Barbara has managed to talk Daniel into two more films,” a source told The Sun.
“He is loved by audiences around the world and has driven a real resurgence for the movies at the box office, so bosses knew they couldn’t lose him just yet.”
Reports suggest that one of the reasons behind Craig’s U-turn is the fact that Sam Mendes stepped down as director after Spectre.
“Daniel and Sam were best buddies when they first started working together and you would constantly see them laughing and joking,” said the insider.
“But after filming had been going on for a while, things started to change. There were a few areas in which they had very different creative opinions and their friendship did become strained.”
The studio recently announced that the 25th Bond film will hit cinemas on November 8 2019, although the cast and director are yet to be officially revealed.
"James Bond will return to US cinemas on November 8, 2019 with a traditional earlier release in the UK and the rest of the world,” read a tweet posted to the franchise’s official account.
Studio bosses went on to say that international release dates and a cast list would be announced “at a later date”.
Is that the director/cast/etc. announcement or something else?
Where exactly do I state each film is a grand vision? What I say is that they know exactly what's happening. The 'what's happening' bit may be good or bad. In fact it's likely an equal amount of both.
The key point I'm making is that you, me, or anyone else aren't entitled to know their business dealings. If they don't want to elaborate, then good for them. I really don't care.
This is less about me batting for EON, more about me understanding the absolute nightmare task of getting something like this out of the blocks and onto a screen. Believe it or not, mate, they don't give two f**** what you make of their abilities, or lack of. Quit your waffle and your insistence on making something out of sweet FA.
You're right, they don't care how their films are received, but then why should we be "understanding" and "sympathetic" when they balls it up for the umpteenth time? Why should we rush out with apologetics and equivocation in regards to their next creative bowel movement, years before it's even released?
Who cares how hard it is getting a Bond film made, the fact is, it's their job.
I'm sensitive
I think they aren't as concerned about the 'in between films' press management.
I'm quite certain that if MGM goes public post-B25, they will be compelled to do so however. There's nothing like the share market to impose a little structure on everything.
The stuff about Craig only agreeing to come back after Mendes left the scene is obviously garbage. Mendes never really wanted to come back for SP. The likelihood of him doing a third film was always close to zero.
I think Craig was always open to reprising the role and just wanted a break.
David Oyelowo was saying way back that people shouldn't rule out Craig's return.
I'm pretty sure Craig has grown to rather enjoy some of the trappings of being 007. It's a difficult gig to just walk away from. He knows what happens to most Bond actors when they leave the role - a fairly precipitous career decline usually (Brosnan being a notable exception and Connery only really making a come back a good decade later).
Two films makes a lot of sense to me and would not surprise me at all. But they surely need to get B26 out a bit quicker.
One likes to imagine that they're planning two films simultaneously to round off the Craig era. Do EON have it in them to get their ducks lined up and solid plots and scripts in place?
They have time on their side. There's really no excuses this time.
Yes the only reason he came back for spectre was because people love skyfall and people dont love spectre so why would he come back
Exactly.
Again, where do I say they don't care how their films are received? It's pretty simple what I meant, summed up succinctly by @bondjames above.
I really would love and admire that attitude, if they just were good in what they're doing!
Why should they when they have fans running around, doing that for free? Waste of money.
Yes please.