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No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • PanchitoPistolesPanchitoPistoles 2.0
    edited August 2017 Posts: 4,619
    GetCarter wrote: »
    Why does Craig have to tie off loose ends?
    You are absolutely right, he doesn't. And despite what most people here seem to believe, there are hardly an loose ends. The only loose end is pretty much Madeleine, as she is clearly more than just a Bond girl, she is Bond's first love since Vesper.

    P.S. NO BLOFELD. And NO David Arnold, please!

  • GetafixGetafix
    edited August 2017 Posts: 11,425
    The loose end is Craig's Bond character arc. Craig is not coming back to do a stand alone film.

    He's not going to end it all with a TSWLM entry. SP was a close as we're ever going to get to that kind of film from Craig, and most people on here seemed to hate it.

    B25 will go dark and continue the arc.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,521
    Getafix wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Thanks @FoxRox, I think many people, once DC's gone, will find what you are again discovering: although there are hiccups (as with any era of Bondom), this was a great era to be witness to.

    For some, it certainly won't come until DC's done and dusted. But, for most, it will come.

    I'm about to do a mini-DC-athon, but working backwards: starting with Sp...

    I think you're probably right. On balance the films are all of a pretty consistently high quality. Yes there are blips and missteps but I doubt fans of the future will be as hung up about Brofeld as some on here.

    What I wonder about is whether the Craig era films will have the same rewatchability as the Connery and Moore era films. With the notable and welcome exception of QOS the Craig films are all VERY LONG. They have a tendency to drag and overstay their welcome a little.

    In the overall scheme of things however they enrich the series and add variety.

    And for all the whining and carping on here about the character arc, I do think one of the strengths of DC's era for future fans will be the enjoyment of seeing his Bond age, evolve and go on a personal journey. Frankly that's one of the main things he's going to be remembered for. All the other Bonds just arrived fully formed and left the stage almost unscathed.

    I'm not a Fleming afficianado but it seems one of the key aspects of the character that the films have traditionally ignored is the emotional and physical impact on Bond. Of course there have been attempts to convey this in odd films previously but never consistently from film to film.

    With B25 they will definitely want to round everything off. Say something definitive and final about what this life has done to the DC Bond. It's quite exciting actually thinking about the possibilities and where he ends up. A "happy ending" for Craig would be a cop out in my opinion. SP suggested happiness was a possibility, but B25 will blow this delusion apart - it's clearly where they have to go.

    And regardless of whether Bond triumphs over Blofeld he's going to end up broken as a man. No alternative.

    Great post. I do have to say though I think CR and SF are already super rewatchable, despite being a little on the longer side. They are both unique, great classics in the franchise IMO. Nearly every Bond film is pretty rewatchable for me though so I am biased.
  • PanchitoPistolesPanchitoPistoles 2.0
    edited August 2017 Posts: 4,619
    Repeating the most encouraging quote from Purvis & Wade so far: "But for sure, Spectre felt like it closed off a certain way of doing Bond. And I think whatever happens next will be quite different.”
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,521
    Like I said, my guess is they try something like CR or SF that can work with Craig's entire run, and also work on its own. They realize those are his most successful films.
  • DennisonDennison
    Posts: 1,031
    Just heard on BBC Radio 2 that DC is being paid £100million - wonder how much the budget will be if £100 million is spent on Craig alone.
  • PanchitoPistolesPanchitoPistoles 2.0
    Posts: 4,619
    There is a guy on reddit who 7 months ago claimed that "David Mackenzie came close to being offered the director's job before Christmas" and also wrote that "Sam Mendes and Daniel Craig WILL return". https://www.reddit.com/r/JamesBond/comments/5fe0d1/craig_and_mendes_to_return_for_bond_25/dcfb8ao/?context=3
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    PanchitoPistoles wrote: »
    Repeating the most encouraging quote from Purvis & Wade so far: "But for sure, Spectre felt like it closed off a certain way of doing Bond. And I think whatever happens next will be quite different.”

    That is hugely discouraging to me. The problem with SP wasn't its use of the old formula; it's greatest flaws were when they tried new ideas. Bro-feld-erhauser, the crappy love story, and the Thames anti-climax were all new ideas that violated the classic Bond formula. They need to stop screwing with Bond!
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,359
    PanchitoPistoles wrote: »
    There is a guy on reddit who 7 months ago claimed that "David Mackenzie came close to being offered the director's job before Christmas" and also wrote that "Sam Mendes and Daniel Craig WILL return". https://www.reddit.com/r/JamesBond/comments/5fe0d1/craig_and_mendes_to_return_for_bond_25/dcfb8ao/?context=3

    I wouldn't cite Reddit as a credible source.
  • PanchitoPistolesPanchitoPistoles 2.0
    Posts: 4,619
    @BMW_with_missiles I thought the Thames climax was one of the best things about the movie, the love story was crappy only because it was badly written (especially because Swann's character was badly written), and bringing Blofeld back was use of the old formula, even if he was nu-Blofeld.
  • PanchitoPistolesPanchitoPistoles 2.0
    edited August 2017 Posts: 4,619
    Murdock wrote: »
    PanchitoPistoles wrote: »
    There is a guy on reddit who 7 months ago claimed that "David Mackenzie came close to being offered the director's job before Christmas" and also wrote that "Sam Mendes and Daniel Craig WILL return". https://www.reddit.com/r/JamesBond/comments/5fe0d1/craig_and_mendes_to_return_for_bond_25/dcfb8ao/?context=3

    I wouldn't cite Reddit as a credible source.

    You don't get it. The guy mentioned David Mackenzie's name in relation to Bond 25 about 6 months before anyone else. Of course maybe he was lying and got lucky...
  • Aziz_FekkeshAziz_Fekkesh Royale-les-Eaux
    Posts: 403
    The biggest questions for me will be which direction are they going to take concerning Blofeld/lack of Blofeld and will we get a smooth transition to Bond #7...like everyone here (except of course Mendes4Lyfe) I'm hoping for the best for B25...they have at least a year and a half to polish a good script. Purvis and Wade are kind of hit and miss but I've heard a lot of contradictory things about their contributions to SP.

    What I need in B25 are a naval uniform, Felix, and a standalone, OTT mission film. SP tried to appeal to the serious and lighter crowds and kind of felt inconsistent at times. No Mendes is also a good thing, which might mean a much needed return of David Arnold as well.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,521
    Aziz_Fekkesh wrote: »
    The biggest questions for me will be which direction are they going to take concerning Blofeld/lack of Blofeld and will we get a smooth transition to Bond #7...like everyone here (except of course Mendes4Lyfe) I'm hoping for the best for B25...they have at least a year and a half to polish a good script. Purvis and Wade are kind of hit and miss but I've heard a lot of contradictory things about their contributions to SP.

    What I need in B25 are a naval uniform, Felix, and a standalone, OTT mission film. SP tried to appeal to the serious and lighter crowds and kind of felt inconsistent at times. No Mendes is also a good thing, which might mean a much needed return of David Arnold as well.

    This voices a lot of my thoughts. Though it would be nice to see Craig duel Blofeld again, I realize it isn't totally necessary having just watched SP. There is so much time between now and then though. By whatever means necessary, I want Craig to get a great sendoff film.
  • Matt007Matt007
    Posts: 1,314
    Is the garden of death not a bit silly for 2017. It's a long time since I read YOLT but blofeld walking round in a suit of armour in a garden with poisonous plants? Wouldn't they just drop a load of agent orange on it and then storm the place? Can't remember the details though.

    I would love to see a third of the movie as a chase movie where bond is being pursued relying on his wits in the wilderness.

    Also just some damn cool but classy stuff. In the first 15 Mins of goldfinger bond has a perfect tux under a skin suit, electrocutes someone, does some proper spying, seduces the villains missus while needling him. It's like a mini bond film in itself.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    PanchitoPistoles wrote: »
    @BMW_with_missiles I thought the Thames climax was one of the best things about the movie, the love story was crappy only because it was badly written (especially because Swann's character was badly written), and bringing Blofeld back was use of the old formula, even if he was nu-Blofeld.

    @PanchitoPistoles

    Bond choosing not to kill the villain to please a girl that he's sweet on would never have happened pre-reboot and was highly anticlimactic. This after the "long-shot" that was his taking down of the chopper.

    Turning Blofeld into a jealous Oberhauser is the kind of soap opera, personal, emotional BS that you'd only see from a post-reboot Bond film.

    The badly written love story is yet another example of the soap opera level content that we've been forced to suffer through since they decided classic Bond wasn't good enough anymore.

    SP was very nearly the proper, actual, Bond film that I'd been waiting for, but they had to screw it up with "new ideas."
  • PanchitoPistolesPanchitoPistoles 2.0
    edited August 2017 Posts: 4,619
    @BMW_with_missiles Most of the things you mentioned were bad in Spectre, but the thing is that without them the movie would not have been any better. It would have been even more of an embarassing pastiche than it already was.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    PanchitoPistoles wrote: »
    @BMW_with_missiles Most of the things you mentioned were bad in Spectre, but the thing is that without them the movie would not have been any better. It would have been even more of an embarassing pastiche than it already was.

    What, in SP, was worse than those things? IMO, if it weren't for those flaws, SP would have been perfect. (As perfect as any Bond film can be, that is. Nothing's perfect.)
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,521
    The biggest flaws of SP to me are:

    -Making Blofeld Bond's foster brother. Doesn't bother me like it does some people, but it's totally unnecessary and doesn't make their relationship more interesting.
    -Bond and Madeleine's relationship. I think Seydoux did a good job acting, but after Vesper in Craig's continuity, this relationship feels a little off to me. I don't think Craig would settle down after Vesper, and I'm sure that will at least be addressed in Bond 25.
    -Use of M, Q, and Moneypenny. It just felt awkward when they tried forcing these characters in - especially in the third act. Their scenes w/o Bond really didn't work so well.
    -Lack of originality. I feel that SP relied too much on the past Bond films, and this could hurt its originality. The callbacks to Craig's first 3 get old. IMO SF handled the homages + originality balance much better.
    -Most of the third act. Yes, it's really not that great. Bond not killing Blofeld is still sort of weird to me, as is his settling for a life with Madeleine.

    Having said all of that, I enjoy a lot about SP. It has some great action sequences, some genuinely funny moments, a good depiction of the Spectre organization, solid locations, and a pretty good cast. The script has some weaknesses though that keeps it from being a great, modern Bond classic like it might have been.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    I will admit that SP did lack originality, but the way of remedying this is not more seriousness, personal issues, grittiness, or soap opera drama. We had the series run on the classic formula from '62 to '02, and rarely did those films feel stale or unoriginal.
  • Pierce2DanielPierce2Daniel
    Posts: 4,412
    PanchitoPistoles wrote: »
    There is a guy on reddit who 7 months ago claimed that "David Mackenzie came close to being offered the director's job before Christmas" and also wrote that "Sam Mendes and Daniel Craig WILL return". https://www.reddit.com/r/JamesBond/comments/5fe0d1/craig_and_mendes_to_return_for_bond_25/dcfb8ao/?context=3

    Same guy has been fairly accurate so far.

    Not only did he mention that Mackenzie and Craig were involved, they also said that Demange and McGuigan had met with EON last year.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/JamesBond/comments/4q4kso/preproduction_work_has_begun_on_bond_25/

    However, they also said that Fassbender was the top choice to replace. In the sae post they also said that Jack Huston was a favourite as well (which Baz confirmed):
    https://www.reddit.com/r/JamesBond/comments/4xuj1c/michael_fassbender_is_broccolis_top_choice/

    I think this info was correct and perhaps and smalls things changed over time. There is a lot that is too surprising not to be correct...
  • GetafixGetafix
    edited August 2017 Posts: 11,425
    EON have played this game before, especially during the Rog era. I'm Sure Babs was following the Cubby playbook when meeting with possible new actors and letting odd tidbits of info seep into the media.

    It's all great publicity and keeps the current Bond a little been Keen and eager. No one wants to be summarily replaced like Brozza was.
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    edited August 2017 Posts: 2,138
    I don't see a "back to back" film shoot with Craig, I think that is just rumour mil nonsense. I suspect the final film, may have the longest running time, and probably the most expensive. Here is what I think is the truth from all the gossip flying over the last year.

    Craig took a long time to decide.

    EON/MGM listened the Studio partners

    EON/MGM were tempted by Warner Brothers proposals, which included their top man Nolan on board (This is the contingency) and hence why Bond 25 ends up listed on Nolan's Production Company website site which is swiftly removed when the public discover this.

    Craig decides following a successful play which Broccoli Produced she's got his agreement.

    But Nolan's vision includes his own leading man and doing more than one film, not carrying on Craig's tenure, story or timeline.

    EON/MGM do a single film deal with Sony to see out the Craig Era and allow more time to negotiate any future deal with Warner Brothers or another Studio partner.

    EON/MGM win, Bond 25 proceeds and is made with a distribution partner, they eliminate the risk of replacing a popular Bond with someone who may not bring them as much success to a new distribution partner (For now). I think Babs is also yet to find her next Bond. I know there have been many mentioned, I think she will be happy not just to have Craig back, but to have more time in making her choice.
  • SkyfallCraigSkyfallCraig Rome, Italy
    Posts: 630
    Here in Italy for example WB was distributing SP as well as SF
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    BMW_with_missiles wrote: »
    I will admit that SP did lack originality, but the way of remedying this is not more seriousness, personal issues, grittiness, or soap opera drama. We had the series run on the classic formula from '62 to '02, and rarely did those films feel stale or unoriginal.
    My estranged twin brother from another mother. :D
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Aziz_Fekkesh wrote: »
    The biggest questions for me will be which direction are they going to take concerning Blofeld/lack of Blofeld and will we get a smooth transition to Bond #7...like everyone here (except of course Mendes4Lyfe) I'm hoping for the best for B25...they have at least a year and a half to polish a good script. Purvis and Wade are kind of hit and miss but I've heard a lot of contradictory things about their contributions to SP.

    What I need in B25 are a naval uniform, Felix, and a standalone, OTT mission film. SP tried to appeal to the serious and lighter crowds and kind of felt inconsistent at times. No Mendes is also a good thing, which might mean a much needed return of David Arnold as well.

    How would you define an OTT mission?
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    007Blofeld wrote: »
    Any location scouting news for Bond 25?

    Croatia is being heavily mentioned in the rumour mills atm..

  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    Posts: 5,185
    barryt007 wrote: »
    007Blofeld wrote: »
    Any location scouting news for Bond 25?

    Croatia is being heavily mentioned in the rumour mills atm..

    I would be suprised if they don't shoot somewhere in Italy once more. All of Craigs films feature Italy for crucial scenes (except Skyfall) which makes it a distinct Element of his era.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    Getafix wrote: »
    The loose end is Craig's Bond character arc. Craig is not coming back to do a stand alone film.

    He's not going to end it all with a TSWLM entry. SP was a close as we're ever going to get to that kind of film from Craig, and most people on here seemed to hate it.

    B25 will go dark and continue the arc.

    I have to agree with @Getafix -- Craig isn't coming to do a one-off. I have a feeling this will all come full circle. And with that, the character will be broken somehow (but still save the day). It's where DC Bond resides best-- not playing it fast and loose, like RM, but dwelling in the shadows of his psyche.
  • ColonelSunColonelSun
    Posts: 1,499
    peter wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    The loose end is Craig's Bond character arc. Craig is not coming back to do a stand alone film.

    He's not going to end it all with a TSWLM entry. SP was a close as we're ever going to get to that kind of film from Craig, and most people on here seemed to hate it.

    B25 will go dark and continue the arc.

    I have to agree with @Getafix -- Craig isn't coming to do a one-off. I have a feeling this will all come full circle. And with that, the character will be broken somehow (but still save the day). It's where DC Bond resides best-- not playing it fast and loose, like RM, but dwelling in the shadows of his psyche.

    My feelings too.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I do want to see Blofeld and SPECTRE return (ignoring this continuity, but maybe murkily and without saying so directly, being the same organization that vexed Sean and George years prior; in other words, Bond already knows they exist and has had prior run-ins with them; but no Madeleine, no Oberhauser ), but not until we get a new Bond and he has a couple of SPECTRE-free films under his belt. And no retrofitting with those.
    Agreed.
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