No Time To Die: Production Diary

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Comments

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    What built-in hype is there this time?
    Not much yet. What I'm hoping is that they will market it as Craig's final Bond film, just like how Logan was hyped as Jackman's final performance as Wolverine.
    I am getting the shivers now and not in a good way. I have said before and will repeat again: The last thing I want is a Logan like angst driven finale for Craig. Find inspiration elsewhere EON.
  • Posts: 15,229
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    What's the point in calling it The Property of A Lady?

    Because Bond is the property of a lady. As long as the Queen is alive at least. So they better use that title quickly.
    Not seeing the relevance here. It sounds like a cheesy fan fiction written by a teenager.

    Sounds like a Fleming title to me.
    Just because it's a Fleming title doesn't mean it has relevance to be used anywhere or anything. Fleming baptized his short story with a relevant title that speaks to it. Bond being glorified as a belonging to Her Majesty and addressing it in wide and large words is something a cheesy fan fiction penned by a teenager out of massive love for Bond is, not only unoriginal but also cringe-worthy. Let's shoehorn any average-sounding chapter title as well just because Fleming wrote it.

    You said it sounds like teenage fanfic. It's a Fleming title whatever the context, as he came with it. And you're making assumptions about said context. I never said anything about glorifying Bond as the Queen's servant. I'm saying the title has relevance to his state as a British civil servant. Like OHMSS by the way. A movie can have a context when the title could be relevant.
    Bond being the Queen's servant and the title addressing to it as The Property of A Lady sounds like a teenage fanfic. I stand by what I said. On Her Majesty's Secret Service (MI6 being referred to in bold letters, an intelligence and espionage organization within the government of the British monarchy, not a simple servant employment) describes the story and the turnouts in it perfectly well. The Property of A Lady in the short story (and the Octopussy film) revolves around the Faberge egg. Seeing that story is already done, I don't see how else the title as a standalone, separated from the story it was written for will come in handy to refer to something else like Bond for example, which is the suggestion from most fans here and there, shoehorning a Fleming title just because it's Fleming. Not that Quantum of Solace did it any better, mind you?
    No Blofeld isn't a possibility in the Craig era. Not with the direction they're taking.
    ClarkDevlin in 2001: "No Christmas Jones isn't a possibility in the Brosnan era. Not with the direction they're taking."
    I fail to see any logic in that statement. Care to clarify furthermore?

    I know you stand by what you said but what said is unsubstantiated. It's a claim based at best at assumed intentions. The Property of a Lady was briefly mentioned in OP that's it. And it was not used as a title. TWINE was used prior to the movie (not that I like the movie much) and many Bond movies took little more of Fleming than the title of the novels or short story they are allegedly adapted from. Did YOLT was used in the same context in novel and movie? TPOAL is an evocative title and can work for a movie title. Whether or not this hypothetical movie will be good or the title fit to it is another debate entirely. I liked both QOS movie and title, although I would agree the relevance of said title was never properly established.
    I agree on The World Is Not Enough. It tries hard to connect with Elektra's world and her role in it, or whatever she plans to do with it, yet in a manner fails because it tries to be clever with the inclusion of the title that's supposed to be related to Bond.

    You Only Live Twice didn't go on an entirely different path in the reference to the major plot point, though. It just placed a different iteration on the same play, Bond presumed dead, but turning out alive. That plot point played at the end of the novel, and the beginning of the film (I personally prefer the novel over the film by a wide margin, but that's a different topic).

    If they are to use The Property of A Lady, I would rather they don't refer to Bond with it, but the McGuffin or the plot device that plays a major role in the storyline. And if they fit it in, then I'll easily be pleased with it. When Dalton's original Bond 17 was rumoured to have that title along, having read the synopsis of it, I saw zero relevance in the title's relationship with the said script. That's why I find it absurd when a story that bears no relation to the title is executed on paper.

    When I say it's a good title I only refer to the title in and of itself, regardless of the hypothetical movie that would be titled. In the third Dalton movie the working title was actually the only good thing about it and the only thing that could have been kept IMO. But after the events of LTK making Bond or confirming him as the property of a lady would have made perfect sense.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    Here's the question: Given how SP was received (lukewarm), do we think they will spend another 250 million making Bond 25? And if they are going to slash the budget, how are they going to do that? All the major players will be looking for more money, not less. In order to bring everybody back and truly conclude the era, I think the bare minimum they wod have to spend is 200 million. That's a big risk coming of a cooly received film. They have to be really confident if they are willing to spend that much.

    Well SP was very well received in the UK and many other places, but the US was more lukewarm. However, the film still made nearly $900 million world-wide, and that's not lukewarm. SP wasn't quite SF in those terms, but it was still a box office winner. In Hollywood the bottom line is the BO result. I don't think they will skimp on Bond 25.

    True but the domestic market is the most important market and is where the studios get most of their profit. SP had a budget of $250million and when you factor total cost of marketing, you're looking at a total spend close to $700million with a worldwide total gross of $880million which isn't all that impressive really.

    $880 million theatrical box office is impressive - simple as that.

    That's revenue. Not even close to profit.
    Getafix wrote: »
    You really think they spent $450m marketing SP?

    I'm prepared to be proven wrong but this seems a bit OTT surely?

    That's not what I said. Even then at best they would have spent a minimum of $150million. You have to double the budget and then add marketing costs to break even.
  • edited August 2017 Posts: 628
    The Property of a Lady would be a fitting alternate title for QoS, since it could have referred to Vesper and the Algerian love knot.

    From what I've read, the Bond 17 treatment (and resulting script) never had that title.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Getafix wrote: »
    You really think they spent $450m marketing SP?

    I'm prepared to be proven wrong but this seems a bit OTT surely?

    I think SP needed at least half a billion to break even, probably more. It was somewhat justified since they just came off SF and there was a lot of built-in hype. What built-in hype is there this time? I don't know, but are likely headed into treachourous territory with Bond 25, especially if they can't rein in the budget to at least 200 million.

    Yep. Even if marketing costs were at an unrealistic conservative $100million it would need $600million to break even.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,452
    bondjames wrote: »
    What built-in hype is there this time?
    Not much yet. What I'm hoping is that they will market it as Craig's final Bond film, just like how Logan was hyped as Jackman's final performance as Wolverine.
    I am getting the shivers now and not in a good way. I have said before and will repeat again: The last thing I want is a Logan like angst driven finale for Craig. Find inspiration elsewhere EON.

    Not just that but does the "final film" gimmick work with Bond like it does with other characters/franchises? I don't think we've seen any evidence of it, have we? I mean, everyone's expecting a new guy in the suit in a couple of years anyway, as always happens. I'm extremely apprehensive that this film will perform badly.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    You really think they spent $450m marketing SP?

    I'm prepared to be proven wrong but this seems a bit OTT surely?

    I think SP needed at least half a billion to break even, probably more. It was somewhat justified since they just came off SF and there was a lot of built-in hype. What built-in hype is there this time? I don't know, but are likely headed into treachourous territory with Bond 25, especially if they can't rein in the budget to at least 200 million.

    Yep. Even if marketing costs were at an unrealistic conservative $100million it would need $600million to break even.
    I can't imagine Sony did too well out of that, given the reports of what they made on SF. This is probably why the distribution thing has gone on for so long.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    bondjames wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    You really think they spent $450m marketing SP?

    I'm prepared to be proven wrong but this seems a bit OTT surely?

    I think SP needed at least half a billion to break even, probably more. It was somewhat justified since they just came off SF and there was a lot of built-in hype. What built-in hype is there this time? I don't know, but are likely headed into treachourous territory with Bond 25, especially if they can't rein in the budget to at least 200 million.

    Yep. Even if marketing costs were at an unrealistic conservative $100million it would need $600million to break even.
    I can't imagine Sony did too well out of that, given the reports of what they made on SF. This is probably why the distribution thing has gone on for so long.

    Correct. From what I remember the ratio of Sony's deal was beyond pathetic. Embarassing actually. They barely make any money off the Bond films. EoN will never get a distribution deal like this ever again.
  • edited August 2017 Posts: 19,339
    Come on chaps, get rid of the negativity ,they haven't even started anything properly yet apart from possibly scouting and drafting.

    Have faith in Eon and the gang,Babs,MGW and Dan this one last time ...hoorah for 007 !!!!!
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited August 2017 Posts: 15,423
    bondjames wrote: »
    Why does everyone assume YOLT will be the inspiration for Bond 25? It could well be, but there is nothing to back it up, just a lot of speculation.
    It's what they (fans) want. Not necessarily what's going to happen, mind?
    It's a logical conclusion given they've decided to bring Craig back. Otherwise, what's the point really, given his trajectory.
    Not necessarily. They could simply come up with an original story where Bond has to deal with the goons of Spectre again with Blofeld more than potentially involved, the main antagonist of the Craig era. They don't have to involve Madeleine and create a "tragic story" out of her demise, which has become an intolerable and tired cliche with the films and other sorts of fiction of today.
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    What's the point in calling it The Property of A Lady?

    Because Bond is the property of a lady. As long as the Queen is alive at least. So they better use that title quickly.
    Not seeing the relevance here. It sounds like a cheesy fan fiction written by a teenager.

    Sounds like a Fleming title to me.
    Just because it's a Fleming title doesn't mean it has relevance to be used anywhere or anything. Fleming baptized his short story with a relevant title that speaks to it. Bond being glorified as a belonging to Her Majesty and addressing it in wide and large words is something a cheesy fan fiction penned by a teenager out of massive love for Bond is, not only unoriginal but also cringe-worthy. Let's shoehorn any average-sounding chapter title as well just because Fleming wrote it.

    You said it sounds like teenage fanfic. It's a Fleming title whatever the context, as he came with it. And you're making assumptions about said context. I never said anything about glorifying Bond as the Queen's servant. I'm saying the title has relevance to his state as a British civil servant. Like OHMSS by the way. A movie can have a context when the title could be relevant.
    Bond being the Queen's servant and the title addressing to it as The Property of A Lady sounds like a teenage fanfic. I stand by what I said. On Her Majesty's Secret Service (MI6 being referred to in bold letters, an intelligence and espionage organization within the government of the British monarchy, not a simple servant employment) describes the story and the turnouts in it perfectly well. The Property of A Lady in the short story (and the Octopussy film) revolves around the Faberge egg. Seeing that story is already done, I don't see how else the title as a standalone, separated from the story it was written for will come in handy to refer to something else like Bond for example, which is the suggestion from most fans here and there, shoehorning a Fleming title just because it's Fleming. Not that Quantum of Solace did it any better, mind you?
    No Blofeld isn't a possibility in the Craig era. Not with the direction they're taking.
    ClarkDevlin in 2001: "No Christmas Jones isn't a possibility in the Brosnan era. Not with the direction they're taking."
    I fail to see any logic in that statement. Care to clarify furthermore?

    I know you stand by what you said but what said is unsubstantiated. It's a claim based at best at assumed intentions. The Property of a Lady was briefly mentioned in OP that's it. And it was not used as a title. TWINE was used prior to the movie (not that I like the movie much) and many Bond movies took little more of Fleming than the title of the novels or short story they are allegedly adapted from. Did YOLT was used in the same context in novel and movie? TPOAL is an evocative title and can work for a movie title. Whether or not this hypothetical movie will be good or the title fit to it is another debate entirely. I liked both QOS movie and title, although I would agree the relevance of said title was never properly established.
    I agree on The World Is Not Enough. It tries hard to connect with Elektra's world and her role in it, or whatever she plans to do with it, yet in a manner fails because it tries to be clever with the inclusion of the title that's supposed to be related to Bond.

    You Only Live Twice didn't go on an entirely different path in the reference to the major plot point, though. It just placed a different iteration on the same play, Bond presumed dead, but turning out alive. That plot point played at the end of the novel, and the beginning of the film (I personally prefer the novel over the film by a wide margin, but that's a different topic).

    If they are to use The Property of A Lady, I would rather they don't refer to Bond with it, but the McGuffin or the plot device that plays a major role in the storyline. And if they fit it in, then I'll easily be pleased with it. When Dalton's original Bond 17 was rumoured to have that title along, having read the synopsis of it, I saw zero relevance in the title's relationship with the said script. That's why I find it absurd when a story that bears no relation to the title is executed on paper.

    When I say it's a good title I only refer to the title in and of itself, regardless of the hypothetical movie that would be titled. In the third Dalton movie the working title was actually the only good thing about it and the only thing that could have been kept IMO. But after the events of LTK making Bond or confirming him as the property of a lady would have made perfect sense.
    I personally don't see it. Bond being referred to as that, like I said, is cringe-worthy. However, like you, I also thought Dalton's third was an absurd entry had it been done, something worse than the OTT-ness of Die Another Day, if I'm speaking for the Bond fans in general.
  • Posts: 11,425
    The mood is a bit depressing round here.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2017 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    What built-in hype is there this time?
    Not much yet. What I'm hoping is that they will market it as Craig's final Bond film, just like how Logan was hyped as Jackman's final performance as Wolverine.
    I am getting the shivers now and not in a good way. I have said before and will repeat again: The last thing I want is a Logan like angst driven finale for Craig. Find inspiration elsewhere EON.

    Not just that but does the "final film" gimmick work with Bond like it does with other characters/franchises? I don't think we've seen any evidence of it, have we? I mean, everyone's expecting a new guy in the suit in a couple of years anyway, as always happens. I'm extremely apprehensive that this film will perform badly.
    It will be fine if they end it on a positive note. If it's a downbeat ending, then there could be issues. I think people are ready for a tonally upbeat Bond film (doesn't matter if it's gritty or escapist). I certainly am!!
    bondjames wrote: »
    Why does everyone assume YOLT will be the inspiration for Bond 25? It could well be, but there is nothing to back it up, just a lot of speculation.
    It's what they (fans) want. Not necessarily what's going to happen, mind?
    It's a logical conclusion given they've decided to bring Craig back. Otherwise, what's the point really, given his trajectory.
    Not necessarily. They could simply come up with an original story where Bond has to deal with the goons of Spectre again with Blofeld more than potentially involved, the main antagonist of the Craig era. They don't have to involve Madeleine and create a "tragic story" out of her demise, which has become an intolerable and tired cliche with the films and other sorts of fiction of today.
    I don't disagree, but do we really think this is the direction they will go in with Craig? I'm not sure. He's coming back to stamp his legacy and I'm reasonably certain they will have one eye on the novels.
  • Posts: 12,526
    I'm gonna be the first one posting on page 1000. Let that be clear to everyone :-P!

    You have still got a fair wait yet my friend, It would be funny though if you do manage it? lol!
  • Posts: 11,425
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    What built-in hype is there this time?
    Not much yet. What I'm hoping is that they will market it as Craig's final Bond film, just like how Logan was hyped as Jackman's final performance as Wolverine.
    I am getting the shivers now and not in a good way. I have said before and will repeat again: The last thing I want is a Logan like angst driven finale for Craig. Find inspiration elsewhere EON.

    Not just that but does the "final film" gimmick work with Bond like it does with other characters/franchises? I don't think we've seen any evidence of it, have we? I mean, everyone's expecting a new guy in the suit in a couple of years anyway, as always happens. I'm extremely apprehensive that this film will perform badly.
    It will be fine if they end it on a positive note. If it's a downbeat ending, then there could be issues. I think people are ready for a tonally upbeat Bond film (doesn't matter if it's gritty or escapist). I certainly am!!
    bondjames wrote: »
    Why does everyone assume YOLT will be the inspiration for Bond 25? It could well be, but there is nothing to back it up, just a lot of speculation.
    It's what they (fans) want. Not necessarily what's going to happen, mind?
    It's a logical conclusion given they've decided to bring Craig back. Otherwise, what's the point really, given his trajectory.
    Not necessarily. They could simply come up with an original story where Bond has to deal with the goons of Spectre again with Blofeld more than potentially involved, the main antagonist of the Craig era. They don't have to involve Madeleine and create a "tragic story" out of her demise, which has become an intolerable and tired cliche with the films and other sorts of fiction of today.
    I don't disagree, but do we really think this is the direction they will go in with Craig? I'm not sure. He's coming back to stamp his legacy and I'm reasonably certain they will have one eye on the novels.

    Surely SP was a tonally upbeat movie? By DC era standards any way?

    The only was is down (tonally) from SP, IMO.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Getafix wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    What built-in hype is there this time?
    Not much yet. What I'm hoping is that they will market it as Craig's final Bond film, just like how Logan was hyped as Jackman's final performance as Wolverine.
    I am getting the shivers now and not in a good way. I have said before and will repeat again: The last thing I want is a Logan like angst driven finale for Craig. Find inspiration elsewhere EON.

    Not just that but does the "final film" gimmick work with Bond like it does with other characters/franchises? I don't think we've seen any evidence of it, have we? I mean, everyone's expecting a new guy in the suit in a couple of years anyway, as always happens. I'm extremely apprehensive that this film will perform badly.
    It will be fine if they end it on a positive note. If it's a downbeat ending, then there could be issues. I think people are ready for a tonally upbeat Bond film (doesn't matter if it's gritty or escapist). I certainly am!!
    bondjames wrote: »
    Why does everyone assume YOLT will be the inspiration for Bond 25? It could well be, but there is nothing to back it up, just a lot of speculation.
    It's what they (fans) want. Not necessarily what's going to happen, mind?
    It's a logical conclusion given they've decided to bring Craig back. Otherwise, what's the point really, given his trajectory.
    Not necessarily. They could simply come up with an original story where Bond has to deal with the goons of Spectre again with Blofeld more than potentially involved, the main antagonist of the Craig era. They don't have to involve Madeleine and create a "tragic story" out of her demise, which has become an intolerable and tired cliche with the films and other sorts of fiction of today.
    I don't disagree, but do we really think this is the direction they will go in with Craig? I'm not sure. He's coming back to stamp his legacy and I'm reasonably certain they will have one eye on the novels.

    Surely SP was a tonally upbeat movie? By DC era standards any way?

    The only was is down (tonally) from SP, IMO.
    I've heard conflicting opinions on this, even from those who like it. I certainly didn't think it was upbeat at all. Maybe at the start. Then it took on an ominous surreal flavour. No, I'd definitely say it was dark.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Why does everyone assume YOLT will be the inspiration for Bond 25? It could well be, but there is nothing to back it up, just a lot of speculation.
    It's what they (fans) want. Not necessarily what's going to happen, mind?
    It's a logical conclusion given they've decided to bring Craig back. Otherwise, what's the point really, given his trajectory.
    Not necessarily. They could simply come up with an original story where Bond has to deal with the goons of Spectre again with Blofeld more than potentially involved, the main antagonist of the Craig era. They don't have to involve Madeleine and create a "tragic story" out of her demise, which has become an intolerable and tired cliche with the films and other sorts of fiction of today.
    I don't disagree, but do we really think this is the direction they will go in with Craig? I'm not sure. He's coming back to stamp his legacy and I'm reasonably certain they will have one eye on the novels.
    I'm not saying they won't. They will take inspirations from the novels (as always), but I don't think it would be maximal in this state. Not in the way I'd imagine it, at least. Like Skyfall and Spectre, they'll go for something original with a Bond vs Blofeld satisfactory climax the films never got to see, per se.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Why does everyone assume YOLT will be the inspiration for Bond 25? It could well be, but there is nothing to back it up, just a lot of speculation.
    It's what they (fans) want. Not necessarily what's going to happen, mind?
    It's a logical conclusion given they've decided to bring Craig back. Otherwise, what's the point really, given his trajectory.
    Not necessarily. They could simply come up with an original story where Bond has to deal with the goons of Spectre again with Blofeld more than potentially involved, the main antagonist of the Craig era. They don't have to involve Madeleine and create a "tragic story" out of her demise, which has become an intolerable and tired cliche with the films and other sorts of fiction of today.
    I don't disagree, but do we really think this is the direction they will go in with Craig? I'm not sure. He's coming back to stamp his legacy and I'm reasonably certain they will have one eye on the novels.
    I'm not saying they won't. They will take inspirations from the novels (as always), but I don't think it would be maximal in this state. Not in the way I'd imagine it, at least. Like Skyfall and Spectre, they'll go for something original with a Bond vs Blofeld satisfactory climax the films never got to see, per se.
    Let's hope so. Fingers crossed!
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Why does everyone assume YOLT will be the inspiration for Bond 25? It could well be, but there is nothing to back it up, just a lot of speculation.
    It's what they (fans) want. Not necessarily what's going to happen, mind?
    It's a logical conclusion given they've decided to bring Craig back. Otherwise, what's the point really, given his trajectory.
    Not necessarily. They could simply come up with an original story where Bond has to deal with the goons of Spectre again with Blofeld more than potentially involved, the main antagonist of the Craig era. They don't have to involve Madeleine and create a "tragic story" out of her demise, which has become an intolerable and tired cliche with the films and other sorts of fiction of today.
    I don't disagree, but do we really think this is the direction they will go in with Craig? I'm not sure. He's coming back to stamp his legacy and I'm reasonably certain they will have one eye on the novels.
    I'm not saying they won't. They will take inspirations from the novels (as always), but I don't think it would be maximal in this state. Not in the way I'd imagine it, at least. Like Skyfall and Spectre, they'll go for something original with a Bond vs Blofeld satisfactory climax the films never got to see, per se.
    Let's hope so. Fingers crossed!
    Likewise.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,452
    Not necessarily. They could simply come up with an original story where Bond has to deal with the goons of Spectre again with Blofeld more than potentially involved, the main antagonist of the Craig era. They don't have to involve Madeleine and create a "tragic story" out of her demise, which has become an intolerable and tired cliche with the films and other sorts of fiction of today.

    They've already hired P+W and Craig back. What part of that says "we're throwing out the rulebook and taking big risks". To me it seems the safest option they could have gone with. I can only assume they will pick the safest most predictable story also, as a natural extension in their decision making. That means bringing back Maddy and having Blofeld escape, killing Maddy off and then having Bond set out on a vendetta, ending with the epic showdown. That's probably what we'll get, even if it is cliché. It's like RC7 says, at the end of the day they can whatever they want.
  • Posts: 1,092
    I have a strong feeling Blofeld is coming back for sure. He's Bond biggest baddie and if this is really Craig's last they gotta swing for the fences and have them go at it full-on for the final climax.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited August 2017 Posts: 15,423
    Not necessarily. They could simply come up with an original story where Bond has to deal with the goons of Spectre again with Blofeld more than potentially involved, the main antagonist of the Craig era. They don't have to involve Madeleine and create a "tragic story" out of her demise, which has become an intolerable and tired cliche with the films and other sorts of fiction of today.

    They've already hired P+W and Craig back. What part of that says "we're throwing out the rulebook and taking big risks". To me it seems the safest option they could have gone with. I can only assume they will pick the safest most predictable story also, as a natural extension in their decision making. That means bringing back Maddy and having Blofeld escape, killing Maddy off and then having Bond set out on a vendetta, ending with the epic showdown. That's probably what we'll get, even if it is cliché. It's like RC7 says, at the end of the day they can whatever they want.
    And what part of that says the otherwise, if I may ask?

    They can always do whatever they want, but they won't likely repeat "the death of a loved one", broken and brooding Bond, struggling with himself and going loose cannon all over again. The audience will get tired of it and believe me, the majority of them already are. This is not Spooks. This is not Game of Thrones. This is James Bond. An escapist adventure thriller series involving a daring secret agent against a world wide evil.
  • Posts: 1,499
    doubleoego wrote: »
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    Here's the question: Given how SP was received (lukewarm), do we think they will spend another 250 million making Bond 25? And if they are going to slash the budget, how are they going to do that? All the major players will be looking for more money, not less. In order to bring everybody back and truly conclude the era, I think the bare minimum they wod have to spend is 200 million. That's a big risk coming of a cooly received film. They have to be really confident if they are willing to spend that much.

    Well SP was very well received in the UK and many other places, but the US was more lukewarm. However, the film still made nearly $900 million world-wide, and that's not lukewarm. SP wasn't quite SF in those terms, but it was still a box office winner. In Hollywood the bottom line is the BO result. I don't think they will skimp on Bond 25.

    True but the domestic market is the most important market and is where the studios get most of their profit. SP had a budget of $250million and when you factor total cost of marketing, you're looking at a total spend close to $700million with a worldwide total gross of $880million which isn't all that impressive really.

    $880 million theatrical box office is impressive - simple as that.

    That's revenue. Not even close to profit.
    Getafix wrote: »
    You really think they spent $450m marketing SP?

    I'm prepared to be proven wrong but this seems a bit OTT surely?

    That's not what I said. Even then at best they would have spent a minimum of $150million. You have to double the budget and then add marketing costs to break even.

    The box office figure of $880 million is a very strong theatrical performance, that's all there is to it. Trying to determine where the profit line is (or was) is extremely difficult (Impossible even) unless you are right inside the machine and know exactly how the revenue is divided - it's very complex and different from film to film. One reason the studios love franchises, Bond being one of the most successful and long running, is because every film in the series has an extended or a long shelf life - and that's were further profits lie. Even the least financially successful Bond, LTK, which I worked on, made profit - and that I heard directly from one of the producers.
  • edited August 2017 Posts: 4,617
    I love the more gritty, darker stuff and even I'm looking forward to something bighter and more fun. The brooding has to stop. But easier said than done now we know that DC will return. Im struggling to see how they can set the right tone with this one given all of the drama/bagage that comes with the DC Bond
  • edited August 2017 Posts: 19,339
    Not necessarily. They could simply come up with an original story where Bond has to deal with the goons of Spectre again with Blofeld more than potentially involved, the main antagonist of the Craig era. They don't have to involve Madeleine and create a "tragic story" out of her demise, which has become an intolerable and tired cliche with the films and other sorts of fiction of today.

    They've already hired P+W and Craig back. What part of that says "we're throwing out the rulebook and taking big risks". To me it seems the safest option they could have gone with. I can only assume they will pick the safest most predictable story also, as a natural extension in their decision making. That means bringing back Maddy and having Blofeld escape, killing Maddy off and then having Bond set out on a vendetta, ending with the epic showdown. That's probably what we'll get, even if it is cliché. It's like RC7 says, at the end of the day they can whatever they want.
    And what part of that says the otherwise, if I may ask?

    They can always do whatever they want, but they won't likely repeat "the death of a loved one", broken and brooding Bond, struggling with himself and going loose cannon all over again. The audience will get tired of it and believe me, the majority of them already are. This is not Spooks. This is not Game of Thrones. This is James Bond. An escapist adventure thriller series involving a daring secret agent against a world wide evil.

    Totally agree,
    they can't re-create the same issues used in CR again.

    Craig has already had his emotionally draining experience as Bond and that was over Vesper.
    If they put his Bond through it again with Madeleine then sorry,EON,Daniel et al. will deserve all the crap thrown their way.



  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,452
    Not necessarily. They could simply come up with an original story where Bond has to deal with the goons of Spectre again with Blofeld more than potentially involved, the main antagonist of the Craig era. They don't have to involve Madeleine and create a "tragic story" out of her demise, which has become an intolerable and tired cliche with the films and other sorts of fiction of today.

    They've already hired P+W and Craig back. What part of that says "we're throwing out the rulebook and taking big risks". To me it seems the safest option they could have gone with. I can only assume they will pick the safest most predictable story also, as a natural extension in their decision making. That means bringing back Maddy and having Blofeld escape, killing Maddy off and then having Bond set out on a vendetta, ending with the epic showdown. That's probably what we'll get, even if it is cliché. It's like RC7 says, at the end of the day they can whatever they want.
    And what part of that says the otherwise, if I may ask?

    They can always do whatever they want, but they won't likely repeat "the death of a loved one", broken and brooding Bond, struggling with himself and going loose cannon all over again. The audience will get tired of it and believe me, the majority of them already are. This is not Spooks. This is not Game of Thrones. This is James Bond. An escapist adventure thriller series involving a daring secret agent against a world wide evil.

    I know that, but in the end EON will do exactly what they want to. It doesn't matter if the story is tired and already repeated to many times. If it's what EON want to do, they'll do it again.
  • Posts: 15,229
    bondjames wrote: »
    Why does everyone assume YOLT will be the inspiration for Bond 25? It could well be, but there is nothing to back it up, just a lot of speculation.
    It's what they (fans) want. Not necessarily what's going to happen, mind?
    It's a logical conclusion given they've decided to bring Craig back. Otherwise, what's the point really, given his trajectory.
    Not necessarily. They could simply come up with an original story where Bond has to deal with the goons of Spectre again with Blofeld more than potentially involved, the main antagonist of the Craig era. They don't have to involve Madeleine and create a "tragic story" out of her demise, which has become an intolerable and tired cliche with the films and other sorts of fiction of today.
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    What's the point in calling it The Property of A Lady?

    Because Bond is the property of a lady. As long as the Queen is alive at least. So they better use that title quickly.
    Not seeing the relevance here. It sounds like a cheesy fan fiction written by a teenager.

    Sounds like a Fleming title to me.
    Just because it's a Fleming title doesn't mean it has relevance to be used anywhere or anything. Fleming baptized his short story with a relevant title that speaks to it. Bond being glorified as a belonging to Her Majesty and addressing it in wide and large words is something a cheesy fan fiction penned by a teenager out of massive love for Bond is, not only unoriginal but also cringe-worthy. Let's shoehorn any average-sounding chapter title as well just because Fleming wrote it.

    You said it sounds like teenage fanfic. It's a Fleming title whatever the context, as he came with it. And you're making assumptions about said context. I never said anything about glorifying Bond as the Queen's servant. I'm saying the title has relevance to his state as a British civil servant. Like OHMSS by the way. A movie can have a context when the title could be relevant.
    Bond being the Queen's servant and the title addressing to it as The Property of A Lady sounds like a teenage fanfic. I stand by what I said. On Her Majesty's Secret Service (MI6 being referred to in bold letters, an intelligence and espionage organization within the government of the British monarchy, not a simple servant employment) describes the story and the turnouts in it perfectly well. The Property of A Lady in the short story (and the Octopussy film) revolves around the Faberge egg. Seeing that story is already done, I don't see how else the title as a standalone, separated from the story it was written for will come in handy to refer to something else like Bond for example, which is the suggestion from most fans here and there, shoehorning a Fleming title just because it's Fleming. Not that Quantum of Solace did it any better, mind you?
    No Blofeld isn't a possibility in the Craig era. Not with the direction they're taking.
    ClarkDevlin in 2001: "No Christmas Jones isn't a possibility in the Brosnan era. Not with the direction they're taking."
    I fail to see any logic in that statement. Care to clarify furthermore?

    I know you stand by what you said but what said is unsubstantiated. It's a claim based at best at assumed intentions. The Property of a Lady was briefly mentioned in OP that's it. And it was not used as a title. TWINE was used prior to the movie (not that I like the movie much) and many Bond movies took little more of Fleming than the title of the novels or short story they are allegedly adapted from. Did YOLT was used in the same context in novel and movie? TPOAL is an evocative title and can work for a movie title. Whether or not this hypothetical movie will be good or the title fit to it is another debate entirely. I liked both QOS movie and title, although I would agree the relevance of said title was never properly established.
    I agree on The World Is Not Enough. It tries hard to connect with Elektra's world and her role in it, or whatever she plans to do with it, yet in a manner fails because it tries to be clever with the inclusion of the title that's supposed to be related to Bond.

    You Only Live Twice didn't go on an entirely different path in the reference to the major plot point, though. It just placed a different iteration on the same play, Bond presumed dead, but turning out alive. That plot point played at the end of the novel, and the beginning of the film (I personally prefer the novel over the film by a wide margin, but that's a different topic).

    If they are to use The Property of A Lady, I would rather they don't refer to Bond with it, but the McGuffin or the plot device that plays a major role in the storyline. And if they fit it in, then I'll easily be pleased with it. When Dalton's original Bond 17 was rumoured to have that title along, having read the synopsis of it, I saw zero relevance in the title's relationship with the said script. That's why I find it absurd when a story that bears no relation to the title is executed on paper.

    When I say it's a good title I only refer to the title in and of itself, regardless of the hypothetical movie that would be titled. In the third Dalton movie the working title was actually the only good thing about it and the only thing that could have been kept IMO. But after the events of LTK making Bond or confirming him as the property of a lady would have made perfect sense.
    I personally don't see it. Bond being referred to as that, like I said, is cringe-worthy. However, like you, I also thought Dalton's third was an absurd entry had it been done, something worse than the OTT-ness of Die Another Day, if I'm speaking for the Bond fans in general.

    It could be used as a derisive term by a villain (Blofeld especially but not exclusively). Yes Dalton's Bond movie that never was would have destroyed his tenure, his legacy and maybe his career. It never surprised me that Brosnan lost the role after DAD.
  • RC7RC7
    edited August 2017 Posts: 10,512
    Getafix wrote: »
    The mood is a bit depressing round here.

    Agreed. Nothing is confirmed editorially, thus far, just a lot of speculation. If there's time to be even mildly optimistic it's now.

    Just gonna leave this here to remind all the angst ridden millennials how bad ass Bond is and always will be...

  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Not necessarily. They could simply come up with an original story where Bond has to deal with the goons of Spectre again with Blofeld more than potentially involved, the main antagonist of the Craig era. They don't have to involve Madeleine and create a "tragic story" out of her demise, which has become an intolerable and tired cliche with the films and other sorts of fiction of today.

    They've already hired P+W and Craig back. What part of that says "we're throwing out the rulebook and taking big risks". To me it seems the safest option they could have gone with. I can only assume they will pick the safest most predictable story also, as a natural extension in their decision making. That means bringing back Maddy and having Blofeld escape, killing Maddy off and then having Bond set out on a vendetta, ending with the epic showdown. That's probably what we'll get, even if it is cliché. It's like RC7 says, at the end of the day they can whatever they want.
    And what part of that says the otherwise, if I may ask?

    They can always do whatever they want, but they won't likely repeat "the death of a loved one", broken and brooding Bond, struggling with himself and going loose cannon all over again. The audience will get tired of it and believe me, the majority of them already are. This is not Spooks. This is not Game of Thrones. This is James Bond. An escapist adventure thriller series involving a daring secret agent against a world wide evil.

    Totally agree,
    they can't re-create the same issues used in CR again.

    Craig has already had his emotionally draining experience as Bond and that was over Vesper.
    If they put his Bond through it again with Madeleine then sorry,EON,Daniel et al. will deserve all the crap thrown their way.
    Hear Hear, Barry!

    Not to mention... The death of M. The belovveddd M.
    Not necessarily. They could simply come up with an original story where Bond has to deal with the goons of Spectre again with Blofeld more than potentially involved, the main antagonist of the Craig era. They don't have to involve Madeleine and create a "tragic story" out of her demise, which has become an intolerable and tired cliche with the films and other sorts of fiction of today.

    They've already hired P+W and Craig back. What part of that says "we're throwing out the rulebook and taking big risks". To me it seems the safest option they could have gone with. I can only assume they will pick the safest most predictable story also, as a natural extension in their decision making. That means bringing back Maddy and having Blofeld escape, killing Maddy off and then having Bond set out on a vendetta, ending with the epic showdown. That's probably what we'll get, even if it is cliché. It's like RC7 says, at the end of the day they can whatever they want.
    And what part of that says the otherwise, if I may ask?

    They can always do whatever they want, but they won't likely repeat "the death of a loved one", broken and brooding Bond, struggling with himself and going loose cannon all over again. The audience will get tired of it and believe me, the majority of them already are. This is not Spooks. This is not Game of Thrones. This is James Bond. An escapist adventure thriller series involving a daring secret agent against a world wide evil.

    I know that, but in the end EON will do exactly what they want to. It doesn't matter if the story is tired and already repeated to many times. If it's what EON want to do, they'll do it again.
    Sounds more like what you want them to do. Not what they will do.
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Why does everyone assume YOLT will be the inspiration for Bond 25? It could well be, but there is nothing to back it up, just a lot of speculation.
    It's what they (fans) want. Not necessarily what's going to happen, mind?
    It's a logical conclusion given they've decided to bring Craig back. Otherwise, what's the point really, given his trajectory.
    Not necessarily. They could simply come up with an original story where Bond has to deal with the goons of Spectre again with Blofeld more than potentially involved, the main antagonist of the Craig era. They don't have to involve Madeleine and create a "tragic story" out of her demise, which has become an intolerable and tired cliche with the films and other sorts of fiction of today.
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    What's the point in calling it The Property of A Lady?

    Because Bond is the property of a lady. As long as the Queen is alive at least. So they better use that title quickly.
    Not seeing the relevance here. It sounds like a cheesy fan fiction written by a teenager.

    Sounds like a Fleming title to me.
    Just because it's a Fleming title doesn't mean it has relevance to be used anywhere or anything. Fleming baptized his short story with a relevant title that speaks to it. Bond being glorified as a belonging to Her Majesty and addressing it in wide and large words is something a cheesy fan fiction penned by a teenager out of massive love for Bond is, not only unoriginal but also cringe-worthy. Let's shoehorn any average-sounding chapter title as well just because Fleming wrote it.

    You said it sounds like teenage fanfic. It's a Fleming title whatever the context, as he came with it. And you're making assumptions about said context. I never said anything about glorifying Bond as the Queen's servant. I'm saying the title has relevance to his state as a British civil servant. Like OHMSS by the way. A movie can have a context when the title could be relevant.
    Bond being the Queen's servant and the title addressing to it as The Property of A Lady sounds like a teenage fanfic. I stand by what I said. On Her Majesty's Secret Service (MI6 being referred to in bold letters, an intelligence and espionage organization within the government of the British monarchy, not a simple servant employment) describes the story and the turnouts in it perfectly well. The Property of A Lady in the short story (and the Octopussy film) revolves around the Faberge egg. Seeing that story is already done, I don't see how else the title as a standalone, separated from the story it was written for will come in handy to refer to something else like Bond for example, which is the suggestion from most fans here and there, shoehorning a Fleming title just because it's Fleming. Not that Quantum of Solace did it any better, mind you?
    No Blofeld isn't a possibility in the Craig era. Not with the direction they're taking.
    ClarkDevlin in 2001: "No Christmas Jones isn't a possibility in the Brosnan era. Not with the direction they're taking."
    I fail to see any logic in that statement. Care to clarify furthermore?

    I know you stand by what you said but what said is unsubstantiated. It's a claim based at best at assumed intentions. The Property of a Lady was briefly mentioned in OP that's it. And it was not used as a title. TWINE was used prior to the movie (not that I like the movie much) and many Bond movies took little more of Fleming than the title of the novels or short story they are allegedly adapted from. Did YOLT was used in the same context in novel and movie? TPOAL is an evocative title and can work for a movie title. Whether or not this hypothetical movie will be good or the title fit to it is another debate entirely. I liked both QOS movie and title, although I would agree the relevance of said title was never properly established.
    I agree on The World Is Not Enough. It tries hard to connect with Elektra's world and her role in it, or whatever she plans to do with it, yet in a manner fails because it tries to be clever with the inclusion of the title that's supposed to be related to Bond.

    You Only Live Twice didn't go on an entirely different path in the reference to the major plot point, though. It just placed a different iteration on the same play, Bond presumed dead, but turning out alive. That plot point played at the end of the novel, and the beginning of the film (I personally prefer the novel over the film by a wide margin, but that's a different topic).

    If they are to use The Property of A Lady, I would rather they don't refer to Bond with it, but the McGuffin or the plot device that plays a major role in the storyline. And if they fit it in, then I'll easily be pleased with it. When Dalton's original Bond 17 was rumoured to have that title along, having read the synopsis of it, I saw zero relevance in the title's relationship with the said script. That's why I find it absurd when a story that bears no relation to the title is executed on paper.

    When I say it's a good title I only refer to the title in and of itself, regardless of the hypothetical movie that would be titled. In the third Dalton movie the working title was actually the only good thing about it and the only thing that could have been kept IMO. But after the events of LTK making Bond or confirming him as the property of a lady would have made perfect sense.
    I personally don't see it. Bond being referred to as that, like I said, is cringe-worthy. However, like you, I also thought Dalton's third was an absurd entry had it been done, something worse than the OTT-ness of Die Another Day, if I'm speaking for the Bond fans in general.

    It could be used as a derisive term by a villain (Blofeld especially but not exclusively). Yes Dalton's Bond movie that never was would have destroyed his tenure, his legacy and maybe his career. It never surprised me that Brosnan lost the role after DAD.
    I'd find it cringe-worthy to be honest. But, I wouldn't put it past the Waltz Blofeld. He'd say stuff like that.
  • Posts: 1,162
    bondjames wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    You really think they spent $450m marketing SP?

    I'm prepared to be proven wrong but this seems a bit OTT surely?

    I think SP needed at least half a billion to break even, probably more. It was somewhat justified since they just came off SF and there was a lot of built-in hype. What built-in hype is there this time? I don't know, but are likely headed into treachourous territory with Bond 25, especially if they can't rein in the budget to at least 200 million.

    Yep. Even if marketing costs were at an unrealistic conservative $100million it would need $600million to break even.
    I can't imagine Sony did too well out of that, given the reports of what they made on SF. This is probably why the distribution thing has gone on for so long.

    I personally find it very telling that SP was still running well into 2016 ( much, much longer than SF) in some theaters to get those box office numbers. I really can't imagine that the popular demand for it was hefty enough for such a long run.
  • Posts: 4,619
    What part of that says "we're throwing out the rulebook and taking big risks".
    “Spectre felt like it closed off a certain way of doing Bond. And I think whatever happens next will be quite different.” - Robert Wade
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