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Comments
OHMSS is Ian Fleming's best novel and at the end of it Blofeld escapes and manages to kill Bond's wife.
Because, you know, real life is not a fairy tale and you don't always get your happy ending.
What was your point, exactly?
I couldn't have said it better.
But it also doesn't chime with most of the series before it. It doesn't chime with what cinematic Bond is. That's a recurring problem of the Craig era.
I wish they would have taken a clean break with this four year gap and reset. There will be increased tensions over the next few years as we await the next phase in the Craig Bond saga.
OHMSS is good, it's original Fleming. The crap Mendes puts out is not. It was also special because it was a one-off. The entire Craig era has been "this is real life not a fairytale" which is inconsistent with most of cinematic Bond before it, which was escapism.
His mission wasn't to bring in Le Chiffre, it was to clean him out. Felix was supposed to bring him in afterwards. Vesper got herself killed by trying to protect her boyfriend, if she'd gone to Bond for help/protection in Venice rather than handing over the money she'd probably still be alive. Besides, Bond failing to protect the girl is nothing new is it. Every Bond has managed that at some point or another, it doesn't make sense to single him out. In SF it's more grey than winning and losing. He failed to stop Silva killing M but he robbed him of seeing his victory. Silva didn't know M had been hit. And with the insane, convoluted lengths he went to to make sure he pulled the trigger and killed M himself, it must have hurt to have died thinking it was all in vein. And Bond did recover the list (as he would have done in Istanbul if it wasn't for Moneypenny shooting him, something he had no way of preparing/accounting for). True Silva let him, but if Bond hadn't tracked him down when he did who knows how many more agents would have died while Silva waited to be captured. Anyway, M died because of her own mistakes, you can't put that on Bond. He didn't fail to kill Blofeld. Blofeld wanted him to kill him ("do it"), to prove he'd gotten to him. Instead Bond walked off and threw his gun away, walking away from killing and going to live a happy life with someone who understands him. Blofeld has to watch him do that then rot in prison. Even if Madeline dies in Bond 25, the end of SP is still a victory for Bond over Blofeld for that reason. It would have really messed him up, and then he was captured. No matter how it plays out in the long run, Bond won at the end of that film.
In the grand scheme of things, Craig's Bond stopped a terrorist attack at a major airport, killed a Ugandan terrorist/war lord and his right hand men, won a poker game that would have led to the capture but instead led to the assassination of a man who'd been orchestrating/financing terrorist attacks and profiting from them (presumably using those profits to fund the secret global crime syndicate he was a member of), took down Quantum and exposed corruption in the CIA and British government's in the process, managed to recover the list of NATO agents before many were killed despite the huge setback of him being shot by a fellow agent and falling off a massive bridge, saved a lot of potential casualities from Silva and his men in the courtroom, stopped a stadium from blowing up in Mexico city, and took down Spectre (who knows what they would have accomplished with Nine Eyes if it weren't for Craig) and managed to consign his arch nemesis to a fate worse than death (at least for now): rotting in prison knowing that despite all the lengths he went to, Bond still won. Not only did he stop and capture him, he also proved him wrong.
He might not have saved the world in the way Roger Moore did but that's because his films are more grounded in reality and more personal/character driven. But Craig's Bond has saved so many lives with the multiple terrorist attacks he stopped alone and has took down some really powerful villains. He's just as good at his job as any other Bond.
So be it. At this point I trust the judgment of the producers and I'm looking forward to the next mission.
Again that's your issue, not an issue with the film. I find the difference refreshing and dare I say a lot of others did too. It's by no means flawless, but a welcome gear change imo.
I just think that the series is losing what made it special. It's losing what makes cinematic Bond, Bond. It's becoming like an entirely different series. It's almost as though EON are ashamed of the series heritage, acting as though the essence of what Bond is, is cringey and outdated. I sometimes wonder how huge fans of the Craig era are fans of the rest of the series, when one seems to be the antithesis of the other.
Point is you can criticize SF's logic and story from the first minute to last and will never be wrong.
The length to which some people go to make SF look less like a story catastrophe is really astonishing. Don't you guys blush when you reasoning along like "he didn't know she died so Bond successfully fulfilled his mission"?
I don't see the dichotomy. They've been making vastly different films since day one. It would perhaps enlighten me a little if you could define the 'essence' of Bond and what EON have done to suggest it's cringey?
I didn't say Bond was successful, I said Silva doesn't win. Silva is a one man army essentially. He's not undertaking a mission to score political points on behalf of a unknown state. He's just a lunatic who's doing it to serve his own perverse ends. In essence it's a phyrric victory for Bond. Something unusual for a Bond film. Yeah, there's a lot of logical nonsense along the way, but it's buttressed by some wonderful cinematography and a swagger that's evocative of the 60s films. There's an energy to it that keeps me hooked despite the lapses in logic and there's some genuinely elegant work from Mendes in terms of direction and composition.
Judging by your avatar, there is a lot of blushing going on at your side as well.
He clearly died on screen with the knowledge he failed, and Bond won. That's how it was presented.
Who's in denial here?
You mean those producers that have been okaying the most illogical screenplays in the history of the franchise two consecutive times?
As I have plenty of reason to, but certainly not for the things I write on this forum
@RC7 Over the top fun, escapism, gadgets, and quips were staples of cinematic Bond. They used to be what the general public would think of when they thought of Bond, and have been either absent, or severely toned down in the Craig era. Even the scores have lost the loud, brassy, big feel that they use to have. Don't get me wrong, I'm not going all DCINB here, Craig is an excellent Bond, and many traits of Bond did survive the reboot, but much has been lost.
Just because the villain didn't see M die that makes Bond instantly win? If that logic holds water, I ought to play Russian Roulette with myself.
Agreed. Good post.
"Well, we killed the terrorist before the bomb that he planted in the mall went off. So he didn't get to see his victory. It doesn't matter that 1000 people just died, he didn't get to have the satisfaction of seeing it happen."
Exactly. Simple to grasp.
Again I guess it boils down to what you want/expect from Bond. I personally don't want or expect anything, there are things I'd rather they avoid, but in terms of what they deliver I'm happy to see what they can cook up. They don't always get it right, but I don't think they've strayed anywhere near as far as you do.
I explained above it's a Pyrrhic victory for Bond. But it's not a victory of any sort for Silva as his ultimate end game was the death of 'M' and he was hell bent on that happening in the right circumstances - looking into her eyes.
Point taken.
Bond got the satisfaction of stabbing a knife in Silva's back, yes, but Silva won at everything else, including his ultimate goal of killing M. He also got to humiliate MI6 with leaks and attacks, which he did get to see.