No Time To Die: Production Diary

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Comments

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2017 Posts: 23,883
    I think they've pretty much boxed themselves in with this iteration. There is only so much one can do in a more grounded serious universe like this, and particularly with a continuity narrative that they've stretched out over 11+ years (and potentially 13).

    In retrospect, I believe they should have just moved on after CR and tried to tell standalone stories after that, allowing Craig to showcase elements of Bond's character through a solid script and with his subtle acting skills.

    I hope that's what they do after they eventually close this chapter and iteration with the next man.

    Oh, and I agree with Panchito that they should discard Blofeld as soon as possible. I think bringing him back was a huge mistake. He was a caricature in the films before, and now he's just become absurd.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    edited August 2017 Posts: 3,000
    RC7 wrote: »
    I explained above it's a Pyrrhic victory for Bond. But it's not a victory of any sort for Silva as his ultimate end game was the death of 'M' and he was hell bent on that happening in the right circumstances - looking into her eyes.

    I see your point, but it all (all of Bond's actions, and the film as a whole) seems pointless when M still is dead, even if the villain didn't get to enjoy it; the consequences of his scheme still came to fruition.
  • Posts: 1,970
    I think the moment Craig confirmed he was coming back to me that also confirmed Waltz and Blofeld will be back
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    edited August 2017 Posts: 1,165
    I would argue that in death, M was able to retain her dignity. Her living would mean facing the fallout of Silva's chaos and possibly be relieved of her duties in disgrace.

    I know Mendes has been compared to Nolan quite often, but to pull another TDK-ism:

    "You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain."
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Minion wrote: »
    I would argue that in death, M was able to retain her dignity. Her living would mean facing the fallout of Silva's chaos and possibly be relieved of her duties in disgrace.

    I know Mendes has been compared to Nolan quite often, but to pull another TDK-ism:

    "You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain."
    Please no more of that. I've been less enthusiastic about the films already. I don't need to increase to lessen it furthermore.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    bondjames wrote: »
    I think they've pretty much boxed themselves in with this iteration. There is only so much one can do in a more grounded serious universe like this, and particularly with a continuity narrative that they've stretched out over 11+ years (and potentially 13).

    In retrospect, I believe they should have just moved on after CR and tried to tell standalone stories after that, allowing Craig to showcase elements of Bond's character through a solid script and with his subtle acting skills.

    I hope that's what they do after they eventually close this chapter and iteration with the next man.

    Oh, and I agree with Panchito that they should discard Blofeld as soon as possible. I think bringing him back was a huge mistake. He was a caricature in the films before, and now he's just become absurd.

    Excellent post. CR would have been all the more special if it had been a one-off like OHMSS.
  • Posts: 11,425
    bondjames wrote: »
    I think they've pretty much boxed themselves in with this iteration. There is only so much one can do in a more grounded serious universe like this, and particularly with a continuity narrative that they've stretched out over 11+ years (and potentially 13).

    In retrospect, I believe they should have just moved on after CR and tried to tell standalone stories after that, allowing Craig to showcase elements of Bond's character through a solid script and with his subtle acting skills.

    I hope that's what they do after they eventually close this chapter and iteration with the next man.

    Oh, and I agree with Panchito that they should discard Blofeld as soon as possible. I think bringing him back was a huge mistake. He was a caricature in the films before, and now he's just become absurd.

    It's all very well yacking on endlessly about what you think they should have done, but the current trajectory has been a commercial and critical success the likes of which Bond hasn't seen for decades so it's probably fair to assume they'll bang out one more in a similar vein.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    Getafix wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I think they've pretty much boxed themselves in with this iteration. There is only so much one can do in a more grounded serious universe like this, and particularly with a continuity narrative that they've stretched out over 11+ years (and potentially 13).

    In retrospect, I believe they should have just moved on after CR and tried to tell standalone stories after that, allowing Craig to showcase elements of Bond's character through a solid script and with his subtle acting skills.

    I hope that's what they do after they eventually close this chapter and iteration with the next man.

    Oh, and I agree with Panchito that they should discard Blofeld as soon as possible. I think bringing him back was a huge mistake. He was a caricature in the films before, and now he's just become absurd.

    It's all very well yacking on endlessly about what you think they should have done, but the current trajectory has been a commercial and critical success the likes of which Bond hasn't seen for decades so it's probably fair to assume they'll bang out one more in a similar vein.

    AKA, the reason I need to start drinking.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    RC7 wrote: »
    I explained above it's a Pyrrhic victory for Bond. But it's not a victory of any sort for Silva as his ultimate end game was the death of 'M' and he was hell bent on that happening in the right circumstances - looking into her eyes.

    I see your point, but it all (all of Bond's actions, and the film as a whole) seems pointless when M still is dead, even if the villain didn't get to enjoy it; the consequences of his scheme still came to fruition.

    I get the fact it's not an absolute breeze, but that was the point and what I believe resonated with people. You often here platitudes in relation to this sort of cinema like, 'His toughest mission yet!' And it's always bollocks. With SF you could really argue the case. He's down and out, one step behind at all times. I find it appealing as a one off Bond.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Getafix wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I think they've pretty much boxed themselves in with this iteration. There is only so much one can do in a more grounded serious universe like this, and particularly with a continuity narrative that they've stretched out over 11+ years (and potentially 13).

    In retrospect, I believe they should have just moved on after CR and tried to tell standalone stories after that, allowing Craig to showcase elements of Bond's character through a solid script and with his subtle acting skills.

    I hope that's what they do after they eventually close this chapter and iteration with the next man.

    Oh, and I agree with Panchito that they should discard Blofeld as soon as possible. I think bringing him back was a huge mistake. He was a caricature in the films before, and now he's just become absurd.

    It's all very well yacking on endlessly about what you think they should have done, but the current trajectory has been a commercial and critical success the likes of which Bond hasn't seen for decades so it's probably fair to assume they'll bang out one more in a similar vein.
    That's where you and I are in continued disagreement. There have been two global enduring critical successes in the Craig era to date, and they both were not 'continuity' based, at least initially. CR & SF. Whether you like it or not, these will be seen as the critically acclaimed 'classics' in the Craig era, at least from the view of the majority of the global public.

    In terms of box office, they've all been successful to varying degrees. In fact, Michael Wilson has only directly commented about two entries not being all that successful in his view: Namely, OHMSS and the Dalton run (I presume he was referring to LTK).
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    RC7 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    I explained above it's a Pyrrhic victory for Bond. But it's not a victory of any sort for Silva as his ultimate end game was the death of 'M' and he was hell bent on that happening in the right circumstances - looking into her eyes.

    I see your point, but it all (all of Bond's actions, and the film as a whole) seems pointless when M still is dead, even if the villain didn't get to enjoy it; the consequences of his scheme still came to fruition.

    I get the fact it's not an absolute breeze, but that was the point and what I believe resonated with people. You often here platitudes in relation to this sort of cinema like, 'His toughest mission yet!' And it's always bollocks. With SF you could really argue the case. He's down and out, one step behind at all times. I find it appealing as a one off Bond.

    I could appreciate it that way as well, but a downbeat tone seems to permeate the entire Craig era. If the next era isn't just a continuation of this tone, as I fear it may be, then I'll have a much greater retrospective appreciation for all of Craig's films.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited August 2017 Posts: 8,395
    RC7 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    I explained above it's a Pyrrhic victory for Bond. But it's not a victory of any sort for Silva as his ultimate end game was the death of 'M' and he was hell bent on that happening in the right circumstances - looking into her eyes.

    I see your point, but it all (all of Bond's actions, and the film as a whole) seems pointless when M still is dead, even if the villain didn't get to enjoy it; the consequences of his scheme still came to fruition.

    I get the fact it's not an absolute breeze, but that was the point and what I believe resonated with people. You often here platitudes in relation to this sort of cinema like, 'His toughest mission yet!' And it's always bollocks. With SF you could really argue the case. He's down and out, one step behind at all times. I find it appealing as a one off Bond.

    The climax takes place at Bond childhood home, yet he's one step behind? How is this Bond hardest mission ever again? He clicks the homer and the helicopters arrive almost immediately. How was he one step behind then? If anything this is one of Bond easier missions. The hardest part was probably the drive from London to Skyfall.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    RC7 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    I explained above it's a Pyrrhic victory for Bond. But it's not a victory of any sort for Silva as his ultimate end game was the death of 'M' and he was hell bent on that happening in the right circumstances - looking into her eyes.

    I see your point, but it all (all of Bond's actions, and the film as a whole) seems pointless when M still is dead, even if the villain didn't get to enjoy it; the consequences of his scheme still came to fruition.

    I get the fact it's not an absolute breeze, but that was the point and what I believe resonated with people. You often here platitudes in relation to this sort of cinema like, 'His toughest mission yet!' And it's always bollocks. With SF you could really argue the case. He's down and out, one step behind at all times. I find it appealing as a one off Bond.

    The climax takes place at Bond childhood home, yet he's one step behind? How is this Bond hardest mission ever again? He clicks the homer and the helicopters arrive almost immediately. How was he one step behind then? If anything this is one of Bond easier missions. The hardest part was probably the drive from London to Skyfall.
    Hahaha, well said! Here's my +1 to you! :))
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    RC7 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    I explained above it's a Pyrrhic victory for Bond. But it's not a victory of any sort for Silva as his ultimate end game was the death of 'M' and he was hell bent on that happening in the right circumstances - looking into her eyes.

    I see your point, but it all (all of Bond's actions, and the film as a whole) seems pointless when M still is dead, even if the villain didn't get to enjoy it; the consequences of his scheme still came to fruition.

    I get the fact it's not an absolute breeze, but that was the point and what I believe resonated with people. You often here platitudes in relation to this sort of cinema like, 'His toughest mission yet!' And it's always bollocks. With SF you could really argue the case. He's down and out, one step behind at all times. I find it appealing as a one off Bond.

    The climax takes place at Bond childhood home, yet he's one step behind? How is this Bond hardest mission ever again? He clicks the homer and the helicopters arrive almost immediately. How was he one step behind then? If anything this is one of Bond easier missions. The hardest part was probably the drive from London to Skyfall.

    If you've seen the film you'll know that Bond suggests 'they get out in front', hence going to SF. That's where he attempts to turn the tables. It's a tough mission because he's spent most of the film off his game after drinking himself into a stupor in Turkey.
  • Posts: 12,466
    Man I love SF still so much. It's a shame it got a lot of backlash here; I find a ton to like about it. Definitely superior to SP and QoS for me, both of which I still like.
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    Posts: 1,165
    Minion wrote: »
    I would argue that in death, M was able to retain her dignity. Her living would mean facing the fallout of Silva's chaos and possibly be relieved of her duties in disgrace.

    I know Mendes has been compared to Nolan quite often, but to pull another TDK-ism:

    "You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain."
    Please no more of that. I've been less enthusiastic about the films already. I don't need to increase to lessen it furthermore.
    flat,800x800,070,f.jpg
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Minion wrote: »
    Minion wrote: »
    I would argue that in death, M was able to retain her dignity. Her living would mean facing the fallout of Silva's chaos and possibly be relieved of her duties in disgrace.

    I know Mendes has been compared to Nolan quite often, but to pull another TDK-ism:

    "You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain."
    Please no more of that. I've been less enthusiastic about the films already. I don't need to increase to lessen it furthermore.
    flat,800x800,070,f.jpg
    Thanks for the advice, I'll keep that in mind.
  • Posts: 11,425
    bondjames wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I think they've pretty much boxed themselves in with this iteration. There is only so much one can do in a more grounded serious universe like this, and particularly with a continuity narrative that they've stretched out over 11+ years (and potentially 13).

    In retrospect, I believe they should have just moved on after CR and tried to tell standalone stories after that, allowing Craig to showcase elements of Bond's character through a solid script and with his subtle acting skills.

    I hope that's what they do after they eventually close this chapter and iteration with the next man.

    Oh, and I agree with Panchito that they should discard Blofeld as soon as possible. I think bringing him back was a huge mistake. He was a caricature in the films before, and now he's just become absurd.

    It's all very well yacking on endlessly about what you think they should have done, but the current trajectory has been a commercial and critical success the likes of which Bond hasn't seen for decades so it's probably fair to assume they'll bang out one more in a similar vein.
    That's where you and I are in continued disagreement. There have been two global enduring critical successes in the Craig era to date, and they both were not 'continuity' based, at least initially. CR & SF. Whether you like it or not, these will be seen as the critically acclaimed 'classics' in the Craig era, at least from the view of the majority of the global public.

    In terms of box office, they've all been successful to varying degrees. In fact, Michael Wilson has only directly commented about two entries not being all that successful in his view: Namely, OHMSS and the Dalton run (I presume he was referring to LTK).

    It doesn't really matter what either of us think @bondjames. You seem to take the view that EON make a conscious decision whether or not to make a classic this time round. The fact is of course they want to make a classic but it doesn't always turn out like that. But overall the Craig era has had more hits and misses and has done good box office so we can expect them to carry on in a similar vain regardless of whether we like it or not.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Getafix wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I think they've pretty much boxed themselves in with this iteration. There is only so much one can do in a more grounded serious universe like this, and particularly with a continuity narrative that they've stretched out over 11+ years (and potentially 13).

    In retrospect, I believe they should have just moved on after CR and tried to tell standalone stories after that, allowing Craig to showcase elements of Bond's character through a solid script and with his subtle acting skills.

    I hope that's what they do after they eventually close this chapter and iteration with the next man.

    Oh, and I agree with Panchito that they should discard Blofeld as soon as possible. I think bringing him back was a huge mistake. He was a caricature in the films before, and now he's just become absurd.

    It's all very well yacking on endlessly about what you think they should have done, but the current trajectory has been a commercial and critical success the likes of which Bond hasn't seen for decades so it's probably fair to assume they'll bang out one more in a similar vein.
    That's where you and I are in continued disagreement. There have been two global enduring critical successes in the Craig era to date, and they both were not 'continuity' based, at least initially. CR & SF. Whether you like it or not, these will be seen as the critically acclaimed 'classics' in the Craig era, at least from the view of the majority of the global public.

    In terms of box office, they've all been successful to varying degrees. In fact, Michael Wilson has only directly commented about two entries not being all that successful in his view: Namely, OHMSS and the Dalton run (I presume he was referring to LTK).

    It doesn't really matter what either of us think @bondjames. You seem to take the view that EON make a conscious decision whether or not to make a classic this time round. The fact is of course they want to make a classic but it doesn't always turn out like that. But overall the Craig era has had more hits and misses and has done good box office so we can expect them to carry on in a similar vain regardless of whether we like it or not.
    That's fair. I agree then. It is what it is and we'll just have to live with it.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    Getafix wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I think they've pretty much boxed themselves in with this iteration. There is only so much one can do in a more grounded serious universe like this, and particularly with a continuity narrative that they've stretched out over 11+ years (and potentially 13).

    In retrospect, I believe they should have just moved on after CR and tried to tell standalone stories after that, allowing Craig to showcase elements of Bond's character through a solid script and with his subtle acting skills.

    I hope that's what they do after they eventually close this chapter and iteration with the next man.

    Oh, and I agree with Panchito that they should discard Blofeld as soon as possible. I think bringing him back was a huge mistake. He was a caricature in the films before, and now he's just become absurd.

    It's all very well yacking on endlessly about what you think they should have done, but the current trajectory has been a commercial and critical success the likes of which Bond hasn't seen for decades so it's probably fair to assume they'll bang out one more in a similar vein.
    That's where you and I are in continued disagreement. There have been two global enduring critical successes in the Craig era to date, and they both were not 'continuity' based, at least initially. CR & SF. Whether you like it or not, these will be seen as the critically acclaimed 'classics' in the Craig era, at least from the view of the majority of the global public.

    In terms of box office, they've all been successful to varying degrees. In fact, Michael Wilson has only directly commented about two entries not being all that successful in his view: Namely, OHMSS and the Dalton run (I presume he was referring to LTK).

    It doesn't really matter what either of us think @bondjames. You seem to take the view that EON make a conscious decision whether or not to make a classic this time round. The fact is of course they want to make a classic but it doesn't always turn out like that. But overall the Craig era has had more hits and misses and has done good box office so we can expect them to carry on in a similar vain regardless of whether we like it or not.

    When EON start to feel the ground falling away underneath their feet they always are prepared to take risks in order to hold onto their position. That's why each new tenure starts on such a positive note. It's not just random.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Who said anything about random?

    The Moore era had plenty of changes in tone. The DC era has arguably
    Been more consistent, largely because it's built around Craigs very character driven take on Bond.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited August 2017 Posts: 6,288
    RC7 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    What was Skyfall about again?

    An ex-agent trying to bring down 'M'.

    And Bond failing to stop him. Another wonderful anticlimax brought to us by Mendes.
    Not to mention, losing a MI6 NOC list to the hands of a cyber terrorist, etc. All the balderdash to take down M in style (in Silva's accordance). There's a reason for why I went insane in a short period of time when I saw millions praising this film. :))

    Yeah, and Bond throwing away his McGuffin, the A.TA.C. in FYEO, is considered professional too eh.
    Considering he was in position to bargain with the enemy when they were going to shoot him on sight, he did what any sane man would've done. "You don't have it, I don't have it." By a wide margin that's not the same thing.

    Still, there are other Bond films in which the loss of a McGuffin is the driving force for the rest of the narrative. It....simply happens......loosing a McGuffin. To make that a rime point of criticism for the total failure of SF is simply grotesque.
    Except, M is not just a McGuffin and the ATAC didn't fall into the enemy hands who'd end up using it to remotely have the British submarines target their own cities. M here is a prominent player in the British government and part of the leadership. Wasn't Bond's mission to protect her overall? He failed. His primary mission wasn't to kill Silva, no questions asked. He was to eliminate him to neutralize the threat. After M's death, what good did Silva's own death do to anybody? The head of the secret service is taken out. The terrorists have won and successfully attacked Britain, taking one of the pearls off the crown. M is not just a top secret weapon in the hands of a government like ATAC, she also is a political figure. Don't you think her death would've stunned and sparked an outrage within the public? Something that Bond is assigned over the course of the whole series to prevent?

    Exactly. Bond succeeded in preventing the enemy from having control of the ATAC; he won. In SF, Bond's mission was to stop Silva from killing M; he failed. Silva killed M. The bad guy succeeded in his goal. SF is the only Bond movie where the villain wins.
    That's why I will never love that movie. Well... one of the reasons, anyway... I haven't mentioned the seemingly-purposeful incompetence every single character portrays in it, yet.

    But when Silva dies he has no idea 'M' is about die too - so he doesn't win. There's some nuance to the whole affair - it's never black and white. That's what makes it such a distinctive Bond film. Bond's mission wasn't to save 'M', either, it was to capture/kill Silva. 'M' knew that hence why she agrees to be bait.

    ^This.

    When I first saw SF, I thought it was a cop-out to have M killed by random schrapnel. But on subsequent viewings, I realized that Silva never experienced completion of his goal.

    Regardless, it's okay if Bond fails in 1 of 24 films!
  • Posts: 12,466
    I just thought it was refreshing for the film to not be resolved in traditional Bond victory. YOLT, OHMSS, CR have a little bit of that too. SF is a unique and terrific Bond film all around for me, and its resolution is definitely a big reason why.
  • Posts: 3,274
    Jeffrey wrote: »
    I hope for Bond 25 that bright colours return. SF was pretty dark in colour as is SP. SP also has this yellow glow on a lot of scenes. Just imagine how much colour the Mexico scenes could have brought to the screen.

    Thank God for the Lumetri panel in Adobe Premiere ;-)

  • PropertyOfALadyPropertyOfALady Colders Federation CEO
    Posts: 3,675
    Zekidk wrote: »
    Jeffrey wrote: »
    I hope for Bond 25 that bright colours return. SF was pretty dark in colour as is SP. SP also has this yellow glow on a lot of scenes. Just imagine how much colour the Mexico scenes could have brought to the screen.

    Thank God for the Lumetri panel in Adobe Premiere ;-)

    Let's see it!
  • //Regardless, it's okay if Bond fails in 1 of 24 films!//

    Did Bond also fail in Casino Royale? SPECTRE/Quantum stole Bond's winnings. I don't recall any mention that Bond got it back. Lots of destruction in Venice but the electronic transfer of funds was completed.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    //Regardless, it's okay if Bond fails in 1 of 24 films!//

    Did Bond also fail in Casino Royale? SPECTRE/Quantum stole Bond's winnings. I don't recall any mention that Bond got it back. Lots of destruction in Venice but the electronic transfer of funds was completed.
    And Mr. White was seen departing with the briefcase.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    edited August 2017 Posts: 2,730
    //Regardless, it's okay if Bond fails in 1 of 24 films!//

    Did Bond also fail in Casino Royale? SPECTRE/Quantum stole Bond's winnings. I don't recall any mention that Bond got it back. Lots of destruction in Venice but the electronic transfer of funds was completed.
    And Mr. White was seen departing with the briefcase.

    And le cheffire died without giving up secrets
  • Posts: 11,119
    FoxRox wrote: »
    I just thought it was refreshing for the film to not be resolved in traditional Bond victory. YOLT, OHMSS, CR have a little bit of that too. SF is a unique and terrific Bond film all around for me, and its resolution is definitely a big reason why.

    *High Five*
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    Posts: 5,185
    FoxRox wrote: »
    I just thought it was refreshing for the film to not be resolved in traditional Bond victory. YOLT, OHMSS, CR have a little bit of that too. SF is a unique and terrific Bond film all around for me, and its resolution is definitely a big reason why.

    I've never gone crazy over seeing a Door as much as at the end of Skyfall. I was literllay jumping up and down in my seat...

    CR endig was a much bigger downer to me, even if he caught White at the end. SF felt like a new beginning, all the elements were finally in place.
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