Why criticism on "Skyfall" never truly gained ground (but flourishes in small fan circles)

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  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,978
    I hear the word "complex" used to describe Silva so often, but why? What's so complex or hard to understand about him and his motivations? As for action, I'll take the entire PTS of TWINE over anything SF has to offer any day.

    Oh, nevermind, SF is obviously infinitely better because they added some quotes from a poet in it. Of course! #1 Bond of all time for me, then.
  • To me he's a complex character because he wants M to love him, or at least to accept that she did him wrong big-time. IN the end, he'd rather die than live without her, and that's kinda F%^&#@ up. Complex character, for me.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,978
    Oh, so he wants acknowledgment, much like all of the other Bond villains. Hell, it seems Blofeld's entire motivation in SP is because of the lack of acknowledgment by his father. By that logic, is he not infinitely more complex, then?
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited March 2016 Posts: 17,804
    Look, SF is basically stupid, and SP is basically stupid, the difference being that Mendes attempted to make SF seem like an art-house movie, and he didn't bother with that pretension in SP. :))
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    edited March 2016 Posts: 4,423
    I've got it! People who dislike SF are mummy boys, and the people who dislike SP are daddy boys. Eureka! Or vice - versa
  • royale65 wrote: »
    I've got it! People who dislike SF are mummy boys, and the people who dislike SP are daddy boys. Eureka! Or vice - versa

    Ha!
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,585
    For the thousandth time: Silva did not kill M. A stray bullet, fired by a hired hand, did her in. Silva's desire to be the one the kills her, face to face, is verbalized later. He dies NOT getting his wish...and, in fact, M is still alive (and only known to Silva as hurt) when he dies. In other words, he died without satisfaction.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    TripAces wrote: »
    For the thousandth time: Silva did not kill M. A stray bullet, fired by a hired hand, did her in. Silva's desire to be the one the kills her, face to face, is verbalized later. He dies NOT getting his wish...and, in fact, M is still alive (and only known to Silva as hurt) when he dies. In other words, he died without satisfaction.

    Silva wanted to personally kill M???
    But let's a small army make a Swiss cheese out of the Skyfall mansion?

    Makes perfect sense. Like the rest of the movie.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited March 2016 Posts: 10,591
    So, this is basically an "I hate Skyfall" thread?
    We may as well just call it Skyfall Disappreciation Thread.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    Yes.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    "Criticism. .. Flourishes in small fan circles" :))
    I think this thread is living proof of that.
  • jake24 wrote: »
    So, this is basically an "I hate Skyfall" thread?
    We may as well just call it Skyfall Disappreciation Thread.

    Nah, 'flourishes in small circles' thread is apropos.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,406
    I think Bond films should prioritize plot over character, personally.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I'm happy they're just entertaining. :)
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    Murdock wrote: »

    =)) :)) O:-)
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    :))
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Standard operating procedure. Boys with toys. =))
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    Skyfall defecates on SPECTRE from a great height.

    SPECTRE is hugely flawed devisve one and will likely stay that way, it's only a faction of the hard core fans that seem to worship it and think it's so good

    SPECTRE might have a more coherent plot but boy is it dull, after the PTS it never really recovers, as for TWINE being like SF, I can see an argument to a degree it's just SF is not a wildly jarring film with it's tone all over the place and huge waste of Robert Carlyle.

    Is it possible to make a car chase so un suspenseful well Mendes manages it even with all the toys he has at his beck and call. I orginally tried to make excuses for the uneventful execution of that much touted scene when I first saw it but the second time round it just feels like they are going through the motions.

    Bond & Whites scene is great but could have been better, Bond and Swann but boy that plane chase is utter rubbish and about as exciting as watching paint dry. Train fight yeah that is good but it's all down hill from there.

    Skyfall has one of the best PTS of the series, Bond in Shanghai fighting Patrice hugely tense and also the hugely enjoyable Macau sequence. I sometimes wonder if the same team made SPECTRE considering it's tenseless, uneventful auto pilot like execution.

    Some clearly really don't like Bardem as Silva and while I wouldn't put him up with Le Chiffre, Dr No or Telly's Blofeld I certainly think he makes more of an impact than Waltz does.

    As for the likes of Jonathan Pryce (utterly attrocious), Carlyle & Marceu (decidely dull) and of course Toby Stephens well Bardem is in another class all together.

    Bardem was larger than life and utterly absurd like all the best Bond villains. Mads was so good but his more realistic caged animal like reading was right for CR but Skyfall needed an unhnged loon and Bardem fit that perfectly, Waltz was just uttely disappointing and given some right awful dialogue to spout.

  • Shardlake wrote: »
    Skyfall defecates on SPECTRE from a great height.

    SPECTRE is hugely flawed devisve one and will likely stay that way, it's only a faction of the hard core fans that seem to worship it and think it's so good

    SPECTRE might have a more coherent plot but boy is it dull, after the PTS it never really recovers, as for TWINE being like SF, I can see an argument to a degree it's just SF is not a wildly jarring film with it's tone all over the place and huge waste of Robert Carlyle.

    Is it possible to make a car chase so un suspenseful well Mendes manages it even with all the toys he has at his beck and call. I orginally tried to make excuses for the uneventful execution of that much touted scene when I first saw it but the second time round it just feels like they are going through the motions.

    Bond & Whites scene is great but could have been better, Bond and Swann but boy that plane chase is utter rubbish and about as exciting as watching paint dry. Train fight yeah that is good but it's all down hill from there.

    Skyfall has one of the best PTS of the series, Bond in Shanghai fighting Patrice hugely tense and also the hugely enjoyable Macau sequence. I sometimes wonder if the same team made SPECTRE considering it's tenseless, uneventful auto pilot like execution.

    Some clearly really don't like Bardem as Silva and while I wouldn't put him up with Le Chiffre, Dr No or Telly's Blofeld I certainly think he makes more of an impact than Waltz does.

    As for the likes of Jonathan Pryce (utterly attrocious), Carlyle & Marceu (decidely dull) and of course Toby Stephens well Bardem is in another class all together.

    Bardem was larger than life and utterly absurd like all the best Bond villains. Mads was so good but his more realistic caged animal like reading was right for CR but Skyfall needed an unhnged loon and Bardem fit that perfectly, Waltz was just uttely disappointing and given some right awful dialogue to spout.

    I agree with a lot of this.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    How big is the fraction who adore it ?
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    How big is the fraction who adore it ?
    On this forum? Not a large one it seems.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    I loved Skyfall.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Shardlake wrote: »
    as for TWINE being like SF, I can see an argument to a degree it's just SF is not a wildly jarring film with it's tone all over the place and huge waste of Robert Carlyle.
    I understand this argument, story wise, but frankly in terms of execution, I see far more similarities between SP & TWINE. Jarring tonal variations all over the place & tacked on, dull action sequences in both.
    Shardlake wrote: »
    Bardem was larger than life and utterly absurd like all the best Bond villains. Mads was so good but his more realistic caged animal like reading was right for CR but Skyfall needed an unhnged loon and Bardem fit that perfectly, Waltz was just uttely disappointing and given some right awful dialogue to spout.
    I seem to recall quite a lot of praise for Bardem's Silva when SF came out. He was one of the reasons a lot of the critics liked that film. There were lots of comparisons to Ledger's Joker, but they also said that he was a throwback to the larger than life, somewhat camp villains of yore, and I agree.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I too like SF more than SP, but Thankfully I don't hate it , as many here seem to.
  • Don't hate spectre, just think it's not as strong a story as SF.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    I too like SF more than SP, but Thankfully I don't hate it , as many here seem to.
    I'm at a point where I 'hate' no Bond movie. I just watch SPECTRE 20X as much as Skyfall is all.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,585
    chrisisall wrote: »
    I too like SF more than SP, but Thankfully I don't hate it , as many here seem to.
    I'm at a point where I 'hate' no Bond movie. I just watch SPECTRE 20X as much as Skyfall is all.

    I prefer SF, too, but I watch SP a lot more right now: it's still got a novelty thing going for it.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited March 2016 Posts: 9,020
    @Shardlake

    That's the same fraction that likes GE.
    Very small indeed :))

    I say it's a small fraction that has difficulty accepting the reality that the general public welcomed James Bond back in SP with open arms and didn't mind getting a more traditional Bond back.
  • Posts: 4,617
    Its remarkable that one director can produce such different movies, consecutively within the same franchise. It is this that adds to the heat of the debate. SF is a very different movie from any of the Bond series and I understand why many Bond fans dont like it. Its just too left field for them. But to pick at it over and over again is unfair IMHO. No Bond movie is perfect, they all have their faults. Fairer to object to the fact that it's just too different to embrace as a Bond. If you are more flexible and able to enjoy it is a movie, rather than a Bond movie, there is much to like and appreciate (all its strengths have been covered). SP seeks to return to a more traditional formula and, as such, it is easier and fairer to compare it to other Bond classics. As such, it fails. But some I can see would rather watch a failed attempt to make a classic Bond rather than a bold and ambitious attempt to create something a little different. By its nature, SF will be debated by Bond fans for generations to come (as will OHMSS), but the bottom line is that movies are designed to be enjoyed by jo public and SF succeeded in that. Even if you dont like the film, it should be given credit for that.
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