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Sure you can, what I meant is in general consensus.
Do I blame anyone for thinking I'm crazy having Die Another Day in my Top 10? Nope, but I'd never say it is general consensus that DAD is a Top 10 Bond movie.
Have you read....my previous nuanced post then ;-)?
Quite right @Shardlake
"in the end, there has to be a central theme..a central idea and in this movie, more than any other Bond I can think of there is a central idea..which is the idea of their relationship...to this mother character and I can't think of another Bond movie where this has run so strongly, absolutely like a stick of rock so even whilst everything is going on, even whilst your getting all the tourist stuff, even whilst you're getting all the spectacular set pieces, the jokes and all the stuff that everyone likes, at the heart of it is an idea and the idea of it as a kind of "mummy dearest", quite twisted, quite oedipal weird thing going on." M Kermode
Subtext isn't there to be appreciated, 'rather' than the plot or story, it's there to enhance it. Subtext without plot leaves you with the Matrix sequels. Visually impressive, but lacking the thrust of the original, which is a superb story.
But dat film did not av theeeems!
I liked SF but it's lacking in some plot coherence certainly. That didn't spoil it for me because I liked everything else about the film, especially the visuals and the dialogue.
In this case, to carry the analogy forward, I liked the tune, even though the lyrics might have been lacking in some instances.
M: Well, if you believe that, why did you come back?
James Bond: Good question.
M: Because we're under attack. And you know we need you.
If you go down the Kermode route, Bond came back to help M personally, not "we": by avoiding answering the question, it hints that he himself is either unsure of the answer at that time or uncomfortable in admitting that he came back to help her. And later we learn that it is M that needs help as the vendetta is against her as an individual rather than "we"
Just like The Beatles vs Rolling Stones, or Michael Schumacher vs Ayrton Senna, or Roger Federer vs Rafael Nadal, we will never get close to an understanding on which Bond film is universally considered the best.
I would insert complete before "sh.." and then I'm in agreement...
For me Skyfall is more like Starbucks. Nice place, but don't think too much about the food :)
Yes, but not always. If everyone ranked the Bond films by their cinematic qualities, nearly everyone would have the same ranking. Saying which Bond film is the best 'Bond film' (and not 'film') is not an exact science.
You are basically saying that people should rank the Expendables films by their cinematic values, while nearly everyone would rank them by the amount of kills and badassery of the main cast.
@chrisisall could rank TND higher than SF for example. Why? better gadgets, more humour, more action. Maybe TND is what he expects more from a Bond film. Everyone ranks the films based on different aspects.
What makes Skyfall so special?
Precisely. Hence why the idea that you 'have' to accept that SF is superior to the vast majority of Bond films is incorrect.
Seconded and bang on 100%.
Totally agree. I'd put Hamilton in there too. GF and LALD are top tier for me and utterly iconic.
There's "James Bond : In Service Of Nothing" produced by Adi Shankar, that is even more divisive. Here you don't have all the eye candy to make it "nice", it's really a matter of liking the theme or not.
I'd say Skyfall is full of sugar that makes it easy to like by many (the photography looks like it was designed for a Blu-Ray demo, IMO), but that even in the non-fan crowd, Casino Royale is still judged like the real masterpiece of Craig's tenure, because it tastes so good even though there's not as much sugar and despite the fact that not all the ingredients are first-rate on their own. We'll see if Spectre is perceived as an overdose of sugar or not !
One cannot help to notice that possibly the only masterpiece of the last 25 years, CR, is the only one based on a story by Fleming... And that SF's biggest criticism IMO is the plot (and some lack of action when you read the general crowd's reaction).
Not defending Mendes work in Skyfall, but I think we should give him another chance, maybe he does it better with Spectre, of course he'll never reach the heights of Martin Campbell who did two of the 5 best Bond movies in my opinion.
Opinion.