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On Her Majesty's Secret Service vs. For Your Eyes Only vs. Casino Royale

00Beast00Beast
edited July 2011 in Bond Movies Posts: 4,762
Based on the earlier discussion posted by @DoubleOhhSeven, this one focuses on what came after the science-fiction type Bond movies, You Only Live Twice, Moonraker, and Die Another Day. Just like that discussion, decide which one of these "back to basics" Bond movies is the best.
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Comments

  • DB5DB5
    Posts: 408
    I've got to go with Casino Royale. Daniel Craig seemed to nail the role on his first outing. Plus a fairly good representation of the original Fleming novel.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    Casino Royale
    On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    For Your Eyes Only

    i love them all though - as they are "my Bond-cup-of-tea" ;-)
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    Mine would be a close match between Casino Roayle and For Your Eyes Only. Ultimately though, Casino Roayle would most likely win the match. While I don't think the whole series re-boot idea was necessary, I do think that Casino Roayle managed to come off the sci-fi and return to basics the best. For Your Eyes Only did a good job as well, but in some ways lost the entertaining fun found in the others, while CR blended both while still keeping away from ridiculous concepts. As for OHMSS, it completely bores me to death from the moment Bond meets Draco at his birthday party to the time Bond's cover as Sir Hilary is blown. Also, Tracy annoyed me up until the scene where she rescues Bond, and then she started to get better. Anyway, OHMSS went a bit too far the other way for me.
  • DoubleOhhSevenDoubleOhhSeven
    Posts: 1,778
    @OOBeast. I was actually planning to post this next as a continuation of the last post. But first I wanted to sum-up an emotional story for me regarding Casino Royale. I'll post it eventually. But damn you beat me to it.

  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    @DoubleOhhSeven: Sorry I ruined your post! However, I did credit you in my opening comment, so I didn't forget you! ;-)
  • DoubleOhhSevenDoubleOhhSeven
    Posts: 1,778
    Thanks @ooBeast. Great minds think alike
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    @DoubleOhhSeven: Yes indeed!
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    Posts: 2,629
    Casino Royale
    On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    For Your Eyes Only
    Make mine a double.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    Based on the earlier discussion posted by @DoubleOhhSeven, this one focuses on what came after the science-fiction type Bond movies, You Only Live Twice, Moonraker, and Die Another Day. Just like that discussion, decide which one of these "back to basics" Bond movies is the best.
    001) OHMSS
    002) CR

    massive gap

    003) FYEO

    OHMSS and CR are in my top 5 Bond films. They sometimes switch places but I tend to give OHMSS the edge since it was made in the golden 1960s era of 007 cinema. While a decent midrange entry, I find FYEO vastly overrated by fans(usually ones who detest MR. Since I've always loved MR, FYEO probably wasn't made for fans like me). Also, I consider TLD a "back to basics"/"return to Fleming" type Bond film after the tired AVTAK so if it were competing here, it would be number 001 on my list.

    Mods, can we get a poll added to this one?

  • LAWNMOWERMANLAWNMOWERMAN
    edited July 2011 Posts: 163
    ^ agree

    taking a page from @DaltonCraig007
    OHMSS>>CR>>>>>>>FYEO
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,184
    This is very hard. I enjoy the spirit of each of these films and the way I see it, they are all more or less equal in value. Remember, none of these was redundant. After YOLT, MR and DAD there was simply no choice left but to return to the real world. They all served their purpose well, I think. So I have a hard time deciding which one is the better film.

    I believe I'll go with something like this:

    CR & OHMSS >>> FYEO

    I still love FYEO, but the other two are simply much closer to my heart.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    All of them are currently in my top 10 however the order of preference would be:

    OHMSS (6)
    Casino Royale (7)
    FYEO (9)
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    OHMSS
    FYEO
    [massive gap]
    CR
  • lecherolechero
    Posts: 161
    At the moment they rank as follows

    OHMSS (#3)
    CR (#4)
    FYEO (#10)
  • actonsteveactonsteve
    Posts: 1,492
    I love them all. But as FYEO is my favourite I put it first, then St Daniel of Craig in CR and finally OHMSS..

    But all three are the gold standard of Bond films.
  • SharkShark Banned
    edited July 2011 Posts: 348
    ON HER MAJESTY'S SECRET SERVICE





















    FOR YOUR EYES ONLY



















    CASINO ROYALE
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    Shark : I wouldn't put such a gap between OHMSS and FYEO... ;-)
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    1. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    2. For Your Eyes Only
    3. Casino Royale
  • anotherbondgeekanotherbondgeek
    Posts: 423
    OHMSS

    CR




























    FYEO
  • CoH_GHOST_007CoH_GHOST_007
    Posts: 303
    Casino Royale (Definate win)
    - On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    - For Your Eyes Only
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    Wow, FYEO seems to be unpopular! I agree that it can seem rather dull at times, but I'd still rank it higher than OHMSS any day. FYEO has Roger Moore as 007, plenty of fantastic action scenes, great locations, entertaining pace which succeeds in keeping us entertained, and does a great job of getting the series back on track after the silliness of Moonraker.
    -Casino Royale
    -For Your Eyes Only
    -On Her Majesty's Secret Service
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    1. FYEO
    2. OHMSS
    3. CR

    None of them are in my top 10, and I dislike all 3.
  • JBFan626JBFan626
    Posts: 1,497
    1. OHMSS (1)
    2. CR (10)
    3. FYEO (15)

    @00Beast - FYEO is quite popular around here. It's on a lot of top 10's for people. But when compared to the mammoth OHMSS and the series reviving CR, you've got some stiff competition there. I'm actually surprised how many low marks for OHMSS there are on this thread. But hey that's how it goes. To each his own I guess.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    edited July 2011 Posts: 3,262
    1. FYEO
    2. OHMSS
    3. CR

    None of them are in my top 10, and I dislike all 3.

    OHMSS is not #3 out of these for you. Major? :-?

    Happy to see it raise in rankings for you.
    1. OHMSS (1)
    2. CR (10)
    3. FYEO (15)

    @00Beast - FYEO is quite popular around here. It's on a lot of top 10's for people. But when compared to the mammoth OHMSS and the series reviving CR, you've got some stiff competition there. I'm actually surprised how many low marks for OHMSS there are on this thread. But hey that's how it goes. To each his own I guess.
    Exactly. FYEO was the most financially successful Bond film of the 1980s(with or without adjusting for inflation) and is often ranked as the best of the Moore Bond films on many 007 film ranking lists so it's far from unpopular. If anything, it's overrated IMHO.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    I think people are missing the point here slightly. The question is not which film do you think is best, it is which film brought the series back on track after the overblown film preceding it and in that respect you have to say

    CR
    FYEO
    OHMSS

    Despite OHMSS being at the top of my rankings I dont think YOLT is preceived to go as far over the top as MR and DAD did and consequently OHMSS doesnt come crashing down to earth from such a height as CR and FYEO have to.
    CR has to come out top because the film that preceded it took the series to such a low that had it not been a total back to basics offering the continuation of the series might well have been in jeopardy. And you have to say that CR succeeded above the other two because no matter how good OHMSS and FYEO are the cinema audience did not cheer like they did at the end of CR to give thanks that Bond was truly back.
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    @JBFan626: Thanks for clarifying!
  • thelordflasheartthelordflasheart
    Posts: 1,370
    1) CR: My favourite Bond film. The idea that a "new" Bond film would become my favourite would have seemed unthinkable to me in the past. But never say never...Craig took a role that had been around for over 40 years and made it fresh and exciting. Fantastic directing, great cinematography, great acting and characters, the most exciting action since OHMSS, and a romantic plot instead of an obligatory love interest. Superb. It's like they took all of those elements I listed above and turned the dial to 11.

    2) OHMSS: My favourite until CR came along. I can see how some people would have a problem as it's the most (or only) "mod" of the Bonds which means it's the closest to Austin Powers. But at the core a great, seriously well-done film with (I detect a pattern in myself) a real romance, characters growing, great direction and editing, a wonderful supporting character in Draco, the best Blofeld performance, and explosive action that it still impressive over 40 years later!

    3) FYEO: I thought it good when I saw it but not great. I didn't have two years of "what have they done to Bond?!" after Moonraker so there wasn't a sense of relief that friends of mine had when they first saw it. Some really good moments but hampered by the inclusion of really silly humour that doesn't work - instead of adding to the film it detracts from it. The Thatcher "skit", the "hockey goons", Moore's age, Bibi Dahl, and most unforgivably the Blofeld scene - yuck. It's like the film-makers chickened out when they saw how good FYEO could have been without those things (and let's not even talk about the "underwater" scenes, which were just as embarassing as any bad rear-projection or CGI - if you can't do something well then just don't do it that way!).
  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    Posts: 3,494
    I think people are missing the point here slightly. The question is not which film do you think is best, it is which film brought the series back on track after the overblown film preceding it and in that respect you have to say

    CR
    FYEO
    OHMSS

    Despite OHMSS being at the top of my rankings I dont think YOLT is preceived to go as far over the top as MR and DAD did and consequently OHMSS doesnt come crashing down to earth from such a height as CR and FYEO have to.
    CR has to come out top because the film that preceded it took the series to such a low that had it not been a total back to basics offering the continuation of the series might well have been in jeopardy. And you have to say that CR succeeded above the other two because no matter how good OHMSS and FYEO are the cinema audience did not cheer like they did at the end of CR to give thanks that Bond was truly back.
    You are right Wiz, in the spirit of the post you have to review them exactly this way and put aside personal opinion. In that respect, I would have to go OHMSS (my #6) first from the standpoint that I was old enough to remember. When Connery quit/refused to resign, the series was definitely in more jeopardy than after DAD. I remember how nervous my family was fearing it might be over for a long, long time because there was no replacement at all, whereas EON was prepared to have Brosnan return for one more effort (which I understand he wanted to do) if need be until they got their man. They decided he was too old to do the reboot and got Craig, otherwise we may have gotten something else instead of CR (second and my #2 as well). FYEO (#9) was very refreshing and returned Bond movies from too much fantasy to the grittier realism of an MI6 superspy, but there was never any doubt that I remember regarding the ability of the franchise to get back to basics or a strong possibility that Sir Roger would not return.

    Good to see that most people realize CR is a classic debut for one of the top 3 Bonds in the series' history. I just couldn't see anyone other than Sir Sean and TD doing the job Craig has done to this point. If what they have "on paper" to this point materializes, his detractors (that are getting fewer in number with each passing year) will become an endangered species.


  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    edited July 2011 Posts: 3,262
    3) FYEO: I thought it good when I saw it but not great. I didn't have two years of "what have they done to Bond?!" after Moonraker so there wasn't a sense of relief that friends of mine had when they first saw it.
    I think that is one of FYEO's weaknesses. One of the reasons OHMSS and CR are much stronger films is that they each individually stand alone and on their own as classic Bond films, i.e., OHMSS isn't great because it's not YOLT and CR isn't great because it isn't DAD. I've read many reviews where FYEO receives praise because it's not MR. If a series entry is truly a great Bond film then the goodness, badness, and/or indifferentness of its immediate predecessor shouldn't be an issue IMHO.
    Some really good moments but hampered by the inclusion of really silly humour that doesn't work - instead of adding to the film it detracts from it. The Thatcher "skit", the "hockey goons", Moore's age, Bibi Dahl, and most unforgivably the Blofeld scene - yuck. It's like the film-makers chickened out when they saw how good FYEO could have been without those things (and let's not even talk about the "underwater" scenes, which were just as embarassing as any bad rear-projection or CGI - if you can't do something well then just don't do it that way!).
    Which validates my theory that FYEO isn't a "hard-edged thriller" Bond. It's a typical Moore-era action comedy style Bond with the primary exceptions being that the megasupervillain is eliminated in the PTS rather than the finale and more Fleming source material than usual is contained in its script.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    The Best

    Well OHMSS and CR are probably the two longest films in the series. And it has to be said, if the viewer is to remain entertained and committed for well over two hours then the film has to be well paced and gripping. Both films start and end with plenty of action, and are more sedately paced in the middle sections.

    Both films look gorgeous, use locations well and feature debute Bond actors.

    Both films feature strong romantic sub-plots.

    Both films take a chance on changing direction ever so slightly following a period where the franchise had pushed Bond as far as possible as OTT entertainment.

    On balance because of the disappointing climax in Venice OHMSS nicks it for me.

    1. OHMSS
    2. CR

    FYEO was certainly grounded especially after MR, but the abundance of action sequences only seemed to suggest that John Glen was taking no chances as a first time director. He went for the easy way out, throwing action at the screen. Had he left out the ice hockey fight and half of the underwater action (where Bond recovers the lektor), and given more screen time to Bond and Columbo's meeting after Lisl's death, I would have had more respect for this one.

    3. FYEO

    Which film brought the series back on track after the overblown film preceding it

    1. CR
    DAD, coupled with the big 40th anniversary hoo-hah had pushed Bond to the extreme. Bond was more amazing than ever showing off his expertise in surfing, para-surfing, hotrod racing, hovercraft driving etc. The aston martin had also become a thing of fantasy (although the technology for invisible cars existed at the time it has to be said).
    CR truly returned Bond to his roots.

    2. FYEO
    After MR it was a solid, deliberate decision to cut the hardware out of the series for the time being.

    3. OHMSS
    YOLT was about Blofeld and his madcap schemes, as was OHMSS.
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