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BRING BACK BOND THE CONNOISSEUR

Matt007Matt007
edited February 2015 in Bond Movies Posts: 1,314
Seem to me an integral part of the character is his heady lifestyle coupled with knowledge of fine wine and food. This aspect of the character seem to have been abandoned since pretty much GoldenEye, with the exception of the drink ordering scene in CR. Simply ordering a Vodka Martini isnt enough. I want a pretentious listing of particular spirits, vintage champagne, coupled with a snidy remark about how poorly cooked his venison was. Maybe the producers think this will alienate the audience? I think not - its such an impotant character trait. Its what makes Bond Bond.

Hopefully we get a little more of this in Spectre.
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Comments

  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    Posts: 2,483
    Couldn't agree more. Bond's elitism is a unique--by today's standards--and integral part of Fleming's character, that, IMO, has never been fully fleshed out on screen. But it was certainly more prominent in the early days. Re-emphasis of this facet of Bond would be most welcome indeed.
  • jetsetwillyjetsetwilly
    Posts: 3,327
    I would love to see Bond eat some extravagant dinner in SPECTRE, and order a Fleming-style breakfast room service in his hotel. It's about time this essential ingredient from the books was brought into the films.....
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited February 2015 Posts: 11,189
    ...well he did order a 61 Bollinger in Die Another Day, and refer to Cognac when he was in M's office in GE.
  • JCRendleJCRendle
    Posts: 1,552
    In Casino Royale he orders a chilled Bollinger Grande Année with Beluga caviar.
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    Posts: 1,731
    I'd like to see more of that again yes. Bond was indeed a raging snob in Fleming's novels - it was presumably a way to dull the ache of his morbid, robotic life.

    My absolute favorite scene involving Bond & M is the look on M's face after 007's pithy remark in GF when Bond is offered more of what Col. Smithers describes as "rather disappointing brandy" - M asks what's wrong with it, and Bond replies:

    "I'd say it's a 30-year-old fine, indifferently blended ... with an overdose of bon bois."
  • JCRendleJCRendle
    Posts: 1,552
    "Red wine with fish, I should have known..."

  • Matt007Matt007
    Posts: 1,314
    "Red wine with fish" and 'mouton Rothschild is a claret" are two great lines.
  • Matt007Matt007
    Posts: 1,314
    AceHole wrote: »
    I'd like to see more of that again yes. Bond was indeed a raging snob in Fleming's novels - it was presumably a way to dull the ache of his morbid, robotic life.

    My absolute favorite scene involving Bond & M is the look on M's face after 007's pithy remark in GF when Bond is offered more of what Col. Smithers describes as "rather disappointing brandy" - M asks what's wrong with it, and Bond replies:

    "I'd say it's a 30-year-old fine, indifferently blended ... with an overdose of bon bois."

    Colonel Smithers is giving the lecture 007.

    Lazenbys Bond had a fair few moments
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I too have missed this element of Bond and look forward to it returning in full force in SP.

    It doesn't matter how many darn Q branch Omegas he sports or Astons he drives if he doesn't knowingly demonstrate a personal appreciation for the finer details in life......and it doesn't always have to be about the damn shaken martinis - that's where it became a cliche.

    Connery, as always, did it best. I like the saki line in YOLT because I learned something. I didn't know there was an ideal temperature for it.
  • Jones_The_BondJones_The_Bond
    edited February 2015 Posts: 344
    Yes, indeed. It is an important part of the character of James Bond; it was an important part of Ian Fleming himself!

    You can have all the 'grittiness' and all the fantastic fight scenes you want, but without the snobbery and sophistication, then the character is not a wholly accurate portrayal of Fleming's creation.

    Connery and Moore were the best at this. Connery's are well-documented, but they also seemed entirely natural to Moore's Bond. Witness his dinner with Kristatos in FYEO. Rejecting the sentimental wine order of a white Ribolo from Kristatos' home of Catalonia - Bond's exquisite taste rarely yields to diplomacy - Bond instead orders the Theotaki Aspero. Kristatos' choice being "a little too scented for my palate."
  • JCRendleJCRendle
    Posts: 1,552
    But it wouldn't be shoehorning anything into his character, as I said above, he does have good tastes - Bollinger and Beluga caviar for example.
  • GermanladyGermanlady
    Posts: 6,601
    He showed it in changing hotels in QOS, too and I am sure, we could think of other occasions. Its not, that this one has no taste or doesn't show it.
  • JCRendleJCRendle
    Posts: 1,552
    And not forgetting the bespoke tailored Tom Ford suits and the latest Omega watches that he wears with pride.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    JCRendle wrote: »
    And not forgetting the bespoke tailored Tom Ford suits and the latest Omega watches that he wears with pride.

    I think the point is that the moments of superfluous indulgence that really enrich the novels are currently absent. Wearing Tom Ford and Omega is all well and good, but it's in the pursuit of luxury that we understand the character. It's ultimately much harder to translate to screen and justify that it is progressing the narrative, but it can and should be done more. I want to see more of Bond eating, drinking, smoking and having sex, all for the thrill.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    Craigs Bond is too blue collar to bring this aspect of the character back. It would be awkward. Better to wait until the next Bond.

    Whether it was becoming unfashionable, but Dalton only had one elitist moment.
    Bond: The brand on the list was questionable, so I took the liberty of choosing something else."

    Unless attending the opera counts, then that's two.
  • Matt007Matt007
    Posts: 1,314
    Basically wearing luxury or expensive goods is not enough anymore. Luxury brands at some level are available to a large proportion of people in the developed world. In a world wear drug dealers wear Rolexs, and Football players drive Astons, it should be the luxury of 'knowledge and refinement' that sets Bond apart from the rest of us.

    In GoldenEye, Bond's line of "buy me a pint" always perplexes me. Does Bond drink Pints? I know its banter with Alex but seems out of character. Although then he goes on to flip open the compartment in the Aston to reveal the Chilled champagne - a cheesy though laugh out loud moment.

    In TND - cant think of anything
    TWINE - theres the scene in the caviar factory but it seems a missed opportunity. He could have made a remark about how Zukovskys caviar is inferior to "Royal beluga, north of the Caspian" for example.
    DAD - Well he orders the 61 Bollinger. A name check.
    CR - obvisouly this is a good one, and reinforces my opinion that Campbell really 'gets' Bonds character. We ahve the Drink ordering scene at the Casino, the caviar and champagne, and we see him eating caviar on toast after the card game. Again his gourmet credentials are hinted at on the Eurostar, but, not really.
    QOS - cant think of anything
    SF - An allusion with the Scotch shot off Severines head.
    Spectre - I hear there is a scene on both ...

    minor minor spoiler
    a train and a restaurant

    Seems there are opportunities for food or drink name checking here.

  • Matt007Matt007
    Posts: 1,314


    1:30 onwards

    Everything you need to know about Bond, Cool, Sophisticated and dangerous
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2015 Posts: 23,883
    While I might be in the minority given their enduring popularity, I love the "Beatles' line from GF. Tells me what a snob Bond is (you won't see him hanging with the plebs at a Taylor Swift concert for instance), and I like it.

    I also love "I was referring to the original vintage on which the sherry is based, sir" in reference to M's comment that a sherry has no year in DAF. What an arrogant sod.
  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    Posts: 2,483
    Matt007 wrote: »
    Basically wearing luxury or expensive goods is not enough anymore. Luxury brands at some level are available to a large proportion of people in the developed world. In a world wear drug dealers wear Rolexs, and Football players drive Astons, it should be the luxury of 'knowledge and refinement' that sets Bond apart from the rest of us.

    In GoldenEye, Bond's line of "buy me a pint" always perplexes me. Does Bond drink Pints? I know its banter with Alex but seems out of character. Although then he goes on to flip open the compartment in the Aston to reveal the Chilled champagne - a cheesy though laugh out loud moment.

    In TND - cant think of anything
    TWINE - theres the scene in the caviar factory but it seems a missed opportunity. He could have made a remark about how Zukovskys caviar is inferior to "Royal beluga, north of the Caspian" for example.
    DAD - Well he orders the 61 Bollinger. A name check.
    CR - obvisouly this is a good one, and reinforces my opinion that Campbell really 'gets' Bonds character. We ahve the Drink ordering scene at the Casino, the caviar and champagne, and we see him eating caviar on toast after the card game. Again his gourmet credentials are hinted at on the Eurostar, but, not really.
    QOS - cant think of anything
    SF - An allusion with the Scotch shot off Severines head.
    Spectre - I hear there is a scene on both ...

    minor minor spoiler
    a train and a restaurant

    Seems there are opportunities for food or drink name checking here.

    An astute observation and distinction. Any goon with a fat wallet can buy a Rolex or nine, but cultural refinement, knowledge and taste are required to order the perfect wine with the Rhone-caught fish.
  • ScampScamp
    Posts: 117
    All the previous comments about Rolex, Omega and Tom Ford may be true but....it's not the brand that really makes the difference it's the fact that those people who actually do know what it takes to handmake any of these items will appreciate it for what it actually is....rather than the dubious celebrity that these brands have had thrust upon them. If you appreciate them for what they are then they fulfil the quality and sophistication aspect of Bond's character. A stainless steel Submariner is timeless, an Aston Martin is a fantastic piece of engineering and the quality of the finish etc is sublime. I understand that having a suit tailor made is something everyone should experience. So they are all aspirational items....as, after all. James Bond himself is!
  • ScampScamp
    Posts: 117
    Also, bond's Rolex happened to be the Vavy issue at the time so it makes sense that he should wear one!
  • ScampScamp
    Posts: 117
    Apologies, should have read
    Also, Bond's Rolex happened to be Royal Navy issue at the time so it would make sense that he should wear one!
  • ThighsOfXeniaThighsOfXenia
    edited February 2015 Posts: 1,596
    RC7 wrote: »
    JCRendle wrote: »
    I want to see more of Bond eating, drinking, smoking and having sex, all for the thrill.

    Very very well said.

    Craig's Bond has generally been very blue collar (someone else pointed that out) but SKYFALL seemed to bring a bit more of the sophistication back. He was more refined and less of that nightclub bouncer "look how tough this new Bond is!" from the first two. Again, a bit.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited February 2015 Posts: 7,553
    I think a period-set Bond show on television in the format of Sherlock (very long episodes) that follow very much more closely with the literary, connoisseur Bond, that runs along side the films, which do what they do now very well, would quench the thirst of die-hard Bond fans that has been brought up in this thread.
    First to get the treatment should be Moonraker, where the first half of the episode is Bond and M at Blades, dining and bridging away :D

    EDIT: @Scamp, welcome to the forum! Try to remember to use the "Edit" function to avoid multi-posting :)
  • ScampScamp
    Posts: 117
    Apologies, typed too quickly and then couldn't find the "Edit" function.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    Connery and Moore were good at it I must say! :)) You could see it got on M's nerves on more than one occasion!
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,125
    I think Craig was a very convincing connoisseur in CR, QOS and even SF. It was not shown as much as I wanted, but still more than the last movies since TLD. And there is an easy way to show Bond as a connoisseur: have more scenes set in restaurants. You could make at least one complete recipe book with the meals in the novels. Just show them on screen!
  • jerome007jerome007
    Posts: 158
    The scene about the sherry with Bond,M and Sir Donald Munger in DAF is classic.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    I liked when Bond knew a lot about his mission before being briefed. Bondsight as I call it. ;)
  • DrShatterhandDrShatterhand Garden of Death, near Belfast
    Posts: 805
    Murdock wrote: »
    I liked when Bond knew a lot about his mission before being briefed. Bondsight as I call it. ;)

    Apart from TMWTGG when M asks Bond what he knows about Scaramanga and he says "not much" but then goes on to give a complete dossier of him, right down to the medical term for a extra nipple, finishing with a smirky glance back at M. Comes across as a right smug b*stard!

    Rather more on topic though, I think EON need to reaffirm Bond as a bon vivant as this is an important part of his character. It may need a bit more work with Craig as he does tend to come off as a bit more blue-collar compared to Connery and Moore's effortless portrayal.

    Without giving anything away, there seems to be a couple of scenes in SP where Bond could demonstrate his appreciation of the finer things in life so fingers crossed eh?



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