Quantum of Solace Appreciation Thread- We Found a Better Place to Meet

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  • Posts: 7,653
    TLD's 007 in aid of the Muhajadeen does show the sympathy of the time for a certain party, and is also an eye opener in the sense that the West did make a mistake or miscalculated badly. It is not right-wing or left-wing but showed the alliances of those days which were excepted, in hindsight they still show a lack of insight on behalve of the security services which in it selves shows their falsity in knowledge. That is part of the spy-game.

    With QoB the role of the CIA is done excellent as expected, and Felix represents the good side of the CIA as he always did in the Fleming novels.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Absolutely. Bottom of top ten is still pretty damn good for a Bond fan. I agree.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    SaintMark wrote: »
    With QoB the role of the CIA is done excellent as expected, and Felix represents the good side of the CIA as he always did in the Fleming novels.
    Yes, of course.
    :)>-
  • Posts: 11,119
    Getafix wrote: »
    I think the water monopoly thing was fine. Perfectly serviceable as a dastardly villain's plan. I would have like the actual physical and human manifestations of the plan to have been a little bit more front and centre. When Bond discovers the underwater reservoir, I would have like to have seen a few goons at work - a sort of classic underground lair thing going on. And when Bond defeats Green, there should have been a few exploding dams and water rushing back into riverbeds etc.


    Agreed. I thought the same. It's a bit like Silva's mobster plan to bribe the London Metropolitan Police to help him. Suddenly, Silva got an awful lot of help. And there were police cars helping Silva. And a bomb. Where did it came from? How was the scheme worked out?

    Same with the underwater reservoir in QOS. Suddenly, it was there. Yeah well, let us see some goons working on it. I preferred some more investigation on this. Could have done perfectly.....QOS desperately needed 15 min's more :-P.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Those goons are everywhere. Have you been sleping through the last 50 years+?
  • Posts: 15,124
    Getafix wrote: »
    I think the water monopoly thing was fine. Perfectly serviceable as a dastardly villain's plan. I would have like the actual physical and human manifestations of the plan to have been a little bit more front and centre. When Bond discovers the underwater reservoir, I would have like to have seen a few goons at work - a sort of classic underground lair thing going on. And when Bond defeats Green, there should have been a few exploding dams and water rushing back into riverbeds etc.


    Agreed. I thought the same. It's a bit like Silva's mobster plan to bribe the London Metropolitan Police to help him. Suddenly, Silva got an awful lot of help. And there were police cars helping Silva. And a bomb. Where did it came from? How was the scheme worked out?

    Same with the underwater reservoir in QOS. Suddenly, it was there. Yeah well, let us see some goons working on it. I preferred some more investigation on this. Could have done perfectly.....QOS desperately needed 15 min's more :-P.

    All we know is that Silva had henchmen passing as police officers. He didn't need to corrupt police officers, only to get a hold of some uniforms, or create the disguise himself. Nothing too difficult for a resourceful man like he was.
  • Posts: 7,653
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    I think the water monopoly thing was fine. Perfectly serviceable as a dastardly villain's plan. I would have like the actual physical and human manifestations of the plan to have been a little bit more front and centre. When Bond discovers the underwater reservoir, I would have like to have seen a few goons at work - a sort of classic underground lair thing going on. And when Bond defeats Green, there should have been a few exploding dams and water rushing back into riverbeds etc.


    Agreed. I thought the same. It's a bit like Silva's mobster plan to bribe the London Metropolitan Police to help him. Suddenly, Silva got an awful lot of help. And there were police cars helping Silva. And a bomb. Where did it came from? How was the scheme worked out?

    Same with the underwater reservoir in QOS. Suddenly, it was there. Yeah well, let us see some goons working on it. I preferred some more investigation on this. Could have done perfectly.....QOS desperately needed 15 min's more :-P.

    All we know is that Silva had henchmen passing as police officers. He didn't need to corrupt police officers, only to get a hold of some uniforms, or create the disguise himself. Nothing too difficult for a resourceful man like he was.

    And the attack on the underground was an attempt to lure the police and security forces away from the hearing so Silva could strike at M.

    Only the whole set-up is as believable and impossible to time from is being arrested by Bond on the island as anything that MR does offer in the fantastic. For me the weakness of SF are all events after the apprehension of Silva as they make so little sense in any way. That and the fact that an injured secret agent gets into service after months of absence and no bloody explanation of that absence. It would have been a chance to do TMWTGG or even refer to Topol from FYEO owing him a favor.
  • edited October 2014 Posts: 11,425
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    I think the water monopoly thing was fine. Perfectly serviceable as a dastardly villain's plan. I would have like the actual physical and human manifestations of the plan to have been a little bit more front and centre. When Bond discovers the underwater reservoir, I would have like to have seen a few goons at work - a sort of classic underground lair thing going on. And when Bond defeats Green, there should have been a few exploding dams and water rushing back into riverbeds etc.


    Agreed. I thought the same. It's a bit like Silva's mobster plan to bribe the London Metropolitan Police to help him. Suddenly, Silva got an awful lot of help. And there were police cars helping Silva. And a bomb. Where did it came from? How was the scheme worked out?

    Same with the underwater reservoir in QOS. Suddenly, it was there. Yeah well, let us see some goons working on it. I preferred some more investigation on this. Could have done perfectly.....QOS desperately needed 15 min's more :-P.

    All we know is that Silva had henchmen passing as police officers. He didn't need to corrupt police officers, only to get a hold of some uniforms, or create the disguise himself. Nothing too difficult for a resourceful man like he was.

    And the attack on the underground was an attempt to lure the police and security forces away from the hearing so Silva could strike at M.

    Only the whole set-up is as believable and impossible to time from is being arrested by Bond on the island as anything that MR does offer in the fantastic. For me the weakness of SF are all events after the apprehension of Silva as they make so little sense in any way. That and the fact that an injured secret agent gets into service after months of absence and no bloody explanation of that absence. It would have been a chance to do TMWTGG or even refer to Topol from FYEO owing him a favor.

    Totally agree. Said a hundred times before, but the plot just turns into an incoherent mess after Silva's capture. And the film just becomes flabby and dull.

    Frankly, give me the sparse but actually relatively logical plot of QoS any day.
    Those goons are everywhere. Have you been sleping through the last 50 years+?

    Not sure what you are trying to say. Yes, of course, goons are a hallmark of the some of the best Bond movies. That's why I was saying I'd have liked to have seen a few boiler suits whizzing round in their trucks in the underground reservoir scene in QoS.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Same with the underwater reservoir in QOS. Suddenly, it was there. Yeah well, let us see some goons working on it. I preferred some more investigation on this. Could have done perfectly.....QOS desperately needed 15 min's more :-P.
    That would have been the icing (and the padding) the film needed for sure!
    :)>-
  • Posts: 15,124
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    I think the water monopoly thing was fine. Perfectly serviceable as a dastardly villain's plan. I would have like the actual physical and human manifestations of the plan to have been a little bit more front and centre. When Bond discovers the underwater reservoir, I would have like to have seen a few goons at work - a sort of classic underground lair thing going on. And when Bond defeats Green, there should have been a few exploding dams and water rushing back into riverbeds etc.


    Agreed. I thought the same. It's a bit like Silva's mobster plan to bribe the London Metropolitan Police to help him. Suddenly, Silva got an awful lot of help. And there were police cars helping Silva. And a bomb. Where did it came from? How was the scheme worked out?

    Same with the underwater reservoir in QOS. Suddenly, it was there. Yeah well, let us see some goons working on it. I preferred some more investigation on this. Could have done perfectly.....QOS desperately needed 15 min's more :-P.

    All we know is that Silva had henchmen passing as police officers. He didn't need to corrupt police officers, only to get a hold of some uniforms, or create the disguise himself. Nothing too difficult for a resourceful man like he was.

    And the attack on the underground was an attempt to lure the police and security forces away from the hearing so Silva could strike at M.

    Only the whole set-up is as believable and impossible to time from is being arrested by Bond on the island as anything that MR does offer in the fantastic. For me the weakness of SF are all events after the apprehension of Silva as they make so little sense in any way. That and the fact that an injured secret agent gets into service after months of absence and no bloody explanation of that absence. It would have been a chance to do TMWTGG or even refer to Topol from FYEO owing him a favor.

    Oh I agree Silva's plan was far too convenient. But the henchmen passing as police officers were not what irked me about it. It was the timing that was ridiculous.

    Anyway, this is off topic.
  • Posts: 7,653
    Ludovico wrote: »

    Anyway, this is off topic.

    true and there is me defending QoB against SF :(

    That said, the action scene in Istanbul is far superior to anything that QoB had to offer, one can always blame the editing but for me it is the lack of a director that knows about action in movies. Which should be important for a 007 director.
  • Posts: 11,425
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »

    Anyway, this is off topic.

    true and there is me defending QoB against SF :(

    That said, the action scene in Istanbul is far superior to anything that QoB had to offer, one can always blame the editing but for me it is the lack of a director that knows about action in movies. Which should be important for a 007 director.

    I thought the car chase at the start of QoS was actually pretty good.

    Not sure that Forster or Mendes have really excelled with the action.

    It would be nice to have more action that feels totally integral to the story, rather than just being there for the sake of an 'action sequence'.
  • Posts: 15,124
    I liked the car chase in the PTS of QOS, but it didn't make much of a connection between the ending of CR and the beginning of QOS. The goons showing up, it seemed a bit gratuitous. I think the movie works best in the quieter moments, when Bond spies and investigates. I really enjoyed the boat chase though and the Dr Noesque action sequence at the Perla de la Duna. And QOS has also some great dialogues, especially Greene's, which makes up for a rather mundane introduction to the character. "We deal with the left and the right," may be one of the best villainous speeches of the franchise, chilling and effective, reminiscent of the early years of SPECTRE.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I liked the car chase in the PTS of QOS, but it didn't make much of a connection between the ending of CR and the beginning of QOS. The goons showing up, it seemed a bit gratuitous. I think the movie works best in the quieter moments, when Bond spies and investigates. I really enjoyed the boat chase though and the Dr Noesque action sequence at the Perla de la Duna. And QOS has also some great dialogues, especially Greene's, which makes up for a rather mundane introduction to the character. "We deal with the left and the right," may be one of the best villainous speeches of the franchise, chilling and effective, reminiscent of the early years of SPECTRE.

    Yes, for all the slating it gets, I actually think the QoS script is really not that bad.
  • Posts: 15,124
    The scheme of the villain is large scale, believable enough and actually original. It was used before, like in Chinatown and Once Upon a Time in the West, but not in a long while.
  • edited October 2014 Posts: 4,622
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Water monopoly in Bolivia gets a lot of flak for not being a Bondian and evil enough scheme by some folks here, but TV rights in China is A_OK?

    I love QOS. Top ten material.
    I agree.
    timmer wrote: »
    Control your LOL. You are missing the point. ie you said with your 1+1=2 and 1+1=3 analogy that QoS was not political.
    "Political" denotes a slant or bending of data to support a mindset. To say If we do x then y will happen can be political because it's based on a belief system; it's theoretical. To say we DID a then b happened is stating a fact. To reference a fact is not and cannot be "political". The climate change issus for example: to say we've changed the Earth's climate is not political; it's scientific fact. To say we didn't or aren't, or to say we will destroy our environment completely in ten years is political, because the former is incorrect, and the latter hasn't happened. See?
    So when QOS references things that HAVE happened, it is just using actual events to help drive a story. Using things not widely seized upon by the consciousness of the general public is a powerful & time honoured storytelling device. (see: Argo).
    When TLD shows Bond helping the Muhajadeen you don't see me going into a "That's so Right-wing" tirade, do ya? No, because it was referencing real world events at the time.
    I will in no way control my LOL, LOL!
    :))
    Its becoming clear what gets you all wound up. You can't abide that your precious belief systems that you hold so dear might actually be challenged. You can't abide that QoS might be considered political because presumably you relate to the politics being served up by Forster and Haggis. You guys are kindred spririts obviously. You want the messaging in QoS to be lapped up as status quo, as 1+1=2. As reality. Not something whos merits can be discussed, pro or con.

    They are not making any political statements. They are merely working with unassailable assumptions and facts. If I may, I need an LOL here. :))

    You betray yourself with this statement. You don't even realize how poltically charged it really is.

    " to say we've changed the Earth's climate is not political; it's scientific fact"

    I assume by the "we" you mean mankind, as the earth's climate has continually changed throughout history.

    Meanwhile your "fact" has been and is being debated at think tanks all over the world, and I do not believe there has been a more politiclly charged debate in the history of the world. The implications of these discussions impact entire ecomomies with the usual suspects demanding massive global wealth redistribution schemes. It is not a coincidence that actual Socialist International, with banners to that effect, were front and centre in New York last week, marching lock-step, in unison, in solidarity, united in the fight against global "climate change" Shudder.
    And you don't think climate change science is rife with politics and competing agendas.
    OK then. It's only about the scientific fact. Its just 1+1=2.

    And I know I said I didn't want to get into the actual politics of QoS because it was all thoroughly discussed back in the day, with a consensus btw, that the film did contain politicaly messaging, some of it quite overt.
    The discussion was never about whether the messaging was actually there or not. Rather the discussion is whether we care. Some do some don't.
    I don't actually resent Forster and Haggis using the Bond palate to promote their leftist leanings. I don't like it, but I don't mind them exercising their right to artistic expression.
    I would expect no less.

    As I do have access to key transcripts from those politically charged discussions circa 2008, generated by the film known as QoS, I will share one nugget, which I humbly submit does contain, none too subtle, and again I don't care if any closet Marxists on this board, might relate wholeheartedly to the sentiments being expressed.
    Artistic freedom of expression is dear to our free societies. It must have voice.

    So put this one in your cuban cigar and puff. The smoke is decidedly political.

    This Marxist platitude incongruously uttered by the criminal Greene: "We wouldn't want Marxists giving natural resources to the people, now would we?"
    The writing is even hamfisted. Why would a pure criminal like Greene be compelled to utter such politically charged drivel. I guess if you are Haggis, you have a limited supply of characters to voice such lines. Greene may be bad but as least he's a smart sounding bad guy.
    There are many more examples. The learned Dr Khan had a whole list. One could do a university term paper on the political messaging in this film.
    And again I'm not actually complaining. Not a sour puss. The movie can be enjoyed for other merits, or not enjoyed.

    And might I remind, you started this whole discussion when you expressed dismay that someone ( I can't remember who) gasp, innocently mentioned that there was politics in this film.

    It seems that some who relate to the politics in the film, like to pretend its not even there, so the rest of us will just lap it all up I guess.

    ==and while we are on the subject....the corrupt CIA official is indeed a cinema cliche, however Forster and Haggis do take the Beam character to another level of perfidy.

    It would be one thing if he was merely one rotten apple in a good CIA barrel, which we've seen many times in cinema. But Beam was working with official sanction. He wasn't rogue. He was above board.
    We therefore have a rather broad condemnation of US foreign and economic policy in the western hemisphere combined with a contemporary censure directed at the CIA. It doesn't take Noam Chomsky to see where this all points.
    At the end we find that Bond and Leiter have put the CIA, not just Beam, but the CIA right.
    I am sure Langley appreciated the heads up from Messrs Forster and Haggis.


  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited October 2014 Posts: 17,801
    timmer wrote: »
    Its becoming clear what gets you all wound up. You can't abide that your precious belief systems that you hold so dear might actually be challenged.
    I welcome it, but you do not read what I type and you have your opinions already, so to quote Max Guevara, "Whatever."
    :P
  • edited October 2014 Posts: 15,124
    Beam was working with official sanctions... Because he was an incompetent man put in a position of authority. He was not even much of a schemer, if at all. I would think he borderline committed treason by blurting the identity of Bond to a third party, something that should not be done between allied nations, but then again he is an incompetent. And unfortunately they do exist, in any kind of government services.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    @Ludovico, THANK YOU.
  • Posts: 315
    chrisisall wrote: »
    timmer wrote: »
    Its becoming clear what gets you all wound up. You can't abide that your precious belief systems that you hold so dear might actually be challenged.
    I welcome it, but you do not read what I type and you have your opinions already, so to quote Max Guevara, "Whatever."
    :P

    Well said, Chrisisall..I got your back. I have a better chance of finding Bolivian water out of my tap, than finding a salient point in the wreckage of that bloviated post. But then I'm not an engineer skilled at drilling thru compost.

    And revealing Bond's identity by Beam is something that's done in real life. Ask outed CIA agent Valerie Plame whose cover was blown by the Bush Admin. because of political revenge.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    FLeiter wrote: »
    I have a better chance of finding Bolivian water out of my tap, than finding a salient point in the wreckage of that bloviated post. But then I'm not an engineer skilled at drilling thru compost.
    AHAHAHAHAHAHH!! oH mY that's my big LOL of the day here- thanks!
    :)) =))
  • Posts: 15,124
    I think Beam revealed Bond's identity partially because he had one drink too many. And maybe because he thought little of the Brits. It is not unheard of. And let's not forget that the real schemer and villain in QOS is not the CIA, or any member of it, but a Frenchman who poses as a businessman with a eco-friendly conscience.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited October 2014 Posts: 17,801
    Ludovico wrote: »
    let's not forget that the real schemer and villain in QOS is not the CIA, or any member of it, but a Frenchman who poses as a businessman with a eco-friendly conscience.
    Yes...
    and here's another quote that will irritate those who need to find a "Socialist" message in Bond films:
    Alec Trevelyan: "Hilarious question, particularly from you. Did you ever ask why? Why we toppled all those dictators, undermined all those regimes, only to come home: "Well done, good job, but sorry, old boy, everything you risked your life and limb for has changed." "

    I find QOS to be a bold and unapologetic statement about the grey shades of the espionage business. The links that fail & the abuse of the system by the few. The most realistic Bond film yet, and actually, I'd have liked a bit more fantasy to it myself. Yeah, goons in the underground lake & a small firefight would have been nice.... "Good morning, gentlemen. ACME aquifer inspection, we're cleaning up the world, we thought this was a suitable starting point."
    :)) :))
  • edited October 2014 Posts: 4,622
    Beam is an idiot and I'm sure there are plenty of real-life idiots in the CIA, even some real bad men. No kidding.
    What's offputting about the Beam scenario from political mischief pov (which of course can't possibly exist in a Forster-Haggis collaboration- perish the thought) is the cute little planting of the seed, that the evil CIA conspires to plunder the resources of the hapless indiginees.
    Where's Hugo Chavez when you need him.
    The most realistic Bond film yet, and actually, I'd have liked a bit more fantasy to it myself
    Oh, there's plenty enough fantasy in QoS.

    But this being an appreciation thread, I'm sure the movie moved thousands to hustle down to Bolivia to start digging wells.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited October 2014 Posts: 17,801
    The thing I didn't like about QOS was the idea that Quantum was everywhere, posing a worldwide threat, a force that needed to be reckoned with... and that covert agencies were the only line of defence. So, once again, government CONTROL is what's needed to keep us safe from the unknown dark & sinister forces that are ready to pounce. Again, we must be willing to trade transparency & liberty for security. And we even get to enjoy the loss of freedom because it's BOND. This movie is simply a sugar coated Right-wing subliminal pill for us to swallow under the guise of a slam at evil corporations. Yeah, toss us a few indiscriminate bread crumbs about corruption, but I see what this film is all about. Typical western far right fascist propaganda. Oh please noble & trustworthy government spies, save us! ^:)^

    Edit to add: The above is for @timmer to show him this movie (like most) can be argued any which way you want and in no way reflects my feelings about this movie in particular or the franchise in general (just in case anyone took this seriously and was ready to send me a Force choke ).
    :))
  • Posts: 315
    Another self-induced face plant by Mr. Timmer. Well done. The American C.I.A. has been in more attempted regime changes in the last 60 years than any of us can count. They have chosen to deal with some of the most brutal, sadistic criminals around the world for interests that have nothing to do with freedom. They have toppled duly elected officials, only to turn around and install puppets and in many cases, leaders who were far worse than the men they replaced.

    While they are pervasive world wide, much of their attention has been aimed at Central and South America. Countless coup attempts have failed, but a number have succeeded. Here are just a handful in the last 50 years: Cuba, Honduras, Haiti, Bolivia, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Panama, Brazil and Uruguay.

    The collection of water rights to one group or organization is far from outlandish. T. Boone Pickens(one of the world's richest men) has been buying water rights in Oklahoma and Texas for a few years. "Water will be the new oil" he says. Oh and by the way, these states have severe droughts and water shortages for the past 2-3 years. I doubt Mr. Pickens is hoping for a wet weather pattern anytime soon.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited October 2014 Posts: 17,801
    That's a little more detail than I was hoping for here... :-?
    Let's at least keep it connected to QOS...
  • Posts: 7,653
    chrisisall wrote: »
    That's a little more intense than I was hoping for here... :-?

    true but it does make the story QoB has as a backbone so much interesting and that is why this movie is such a frustration for me, it has got a brilliant real life backbone and a effing oaf of a director whose artistic vision was seemingly more important than telling what could have been a better movie than CR.

    For that reason I find that Forster should be flogged in public and never be allowed to direct any movie whatsoever. ;)
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited October 2014 Posts: 17,801
    They should have just put a laser in it somewhere.

    I still like the movie as-is.
  • edited October 2014 Posts: 4,622
    this movie (like most) can be argued any which way you want and in no way reflects my feelings about this movie in particular or the franchise in general (just in case anyone took this seriously
    exactly, no one could take that take seriously.

    btw, nice rant by Mr 69 posts.This stuff ( and not much else) always pulls them out of the woodwork.
    So come again about QoS not stirring the loins of the moveon.org crowd.
    No political messaging in this film. None at all.

    Vive le revolution!
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