Quantum of Solace Appreciation Thread- We Found a Better Place to Meet

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  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I like the film, but there is obvious political messaging. There is a very blatant dig at the US/CIA's history of backing dictators/tortuters etc. It's spelled out in a scene between Leiter and Bean. It doesn't bother me, and I'm not interested in the argument you guys are having about it much at all. But to deny that there are political statements being made in the picture seems odd.

    Agreed. Good post.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited October 2014 Posts: 17,801
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I like the film, but there is obvious political messaging. There is a very blatant dig at the US/CIA's history of backing dictators/tortuters etc.
    It's called STORYTELLING. The less well defined the good guys are from the bad guys, the more interesting the juxtaposition. That they draw on bits of reality is only a problem for those whom are offended by the mentioning of events that make them uncomfortable politically.
    :))

    And when you say "messaging" what do you mean? Like, there's a 'message' in the film that we shouldn't do bad stuff? And if that's the case, is that in and of itself a bad thing? Or a bad message? Why can't people just take it in without labelling it?
    I watched the original Red Dawn & enjoyed it as an adventure. I watched Silent Running & enjoyed it as a science fiction. Neither pissed me off regardless of my political beliefs... :-??
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited October 2014 Posts: 17,801
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Don't patronize me. I've been a student and teacher of film for many decades.
    Sorry, I've been a film fan & made many student films & been involved with political analysis for most of my life... what seems like patronizing is what I call lively discussion, and since that seems to be not what you want to participate in on my admittedly wild & woolly level here I will certainly back off, with my sincere apologies. I sometimes come on too strong, and being also a martial artist, I am sometimes too quick to bring it to those I see worthy of a good clean fight. I regard this all as academic, and have no serious emotional investment in any internet engagement. My blu rays of TND & YOLT haven't arrived yet, if they had, I probably wouldn't have been posting quite as much on this thread. :))
    But, as always, politics (like religion) cannot be discussed in any other way but HOT. I always try to see if it can be done in fun,... like a fool.... :-??

    But (geeze I just can't help it, heh heh), isn't EVERY film & work of fiction 'political' in some way then? Isn't How the Grinch Stole Christmas a Socialist cartoon? Isn't Enter The Dragon a Right Wing message? What about Firefly/Serenity- a whole frikin' mish-mash of conflicting political statements???


  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited October 2014 Posts: 17,801
    @Birdleson, I have found you to be an extremely intelligent, insightful & entertaining contributor here, and I respect you highly.
    To capture the nuance we'd like to incorporate into our communications, we'd have to write like we were writing full-on novels, and who has time for that?
    -Chris

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    No problem, my fellow agent.
  • Posts: 15,124
    RE: the CIA being scheming evil in QOS. I am not buying it. Sure, they seem to be morally lost, but more for not looking at the big picture than anything else. Anyway, even IF they were pictured in an unflattering light, let's not forget that the main antagonist is French, not exactly the nationality the US right likes the most, or associates most with conservatism. Dominic Greene is not pictured as a staunch right wing, Libertarian capitalist either. He passes as an environment friendly entrepreneur, something that is generally associated with the left. He also spells out Quantum's ideology, which is pretty much based on ideological indifference.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Interesting. :-?
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Ludovico wrote: »
    RE: the CIA being scheming evil in QOS. I am not buying it. Sure, they seem to be morally lost, but more for not looking at the big picture than anything else.

    Morally lost for not looking at the big picture? I took it as a comment on the fact the US and CIA are always fully aware of the 'big picture', but continue to act immorally, or at best solely in their own interest, but apparently on behalf of others.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    RC7 wrote: »
    the US and CIA are always fully aware of the 'big picture'
    LOL, not really. Look at history. It's one short-sighted objective after another, by committee.
    :))
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    chrisisall wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    the US and CIA are always fully aware of the 'big picture'
    LOL, not really. Look at history. It's one short-sighted objective after another, by committee.
    :))

    Well it's a case of the lunatics running the asylum across the globe. Some are just bigger lunatics than others. And others are puppets for the lunatics. It's lunacy, I tell you!
  • Posts: 15,124
    RC7 wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    RE: the CIA being scheming evil in QOS. I am not buying it. Sure, they seem to be morally lost, but more for not looking at the big picture than anything else.

    Morally lost for not looking at the big picture? I took it as a comment on the fact the US and CIA are always fully aware of the 'big picture', but continue to act immorally, or at best solely in their own interest, but apparently on behalf of others.

    In QOS, they don't. The take questionable decisions out of self-interest, yes, but also of ignorance: they do not know Greene belongs to a secret organization that organized a terrorist attack on US soil not long ago, and may even have been instrumental to 9/11 (according to CR). Beam fails to recognize a crook, something Felix Leiter, however, sees right away.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Ludovico wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    RE: the CIA being scheming evil in QOS. I am not buying it. Sure, they seem to be morally lost, but more for not looking at the big picture than anything else.

    Morally lost for not looking at the big picture? I took it as a comment on the fact the US and CIA are always fully aware of the 'big picture', but continue to act immorally, or at best solely in their own interest, but apparently on behalf of others.

    In QOS, they don't. The take questionable decisions out of self-interest, yes, but also of ignorance: they do not know Greene belongs to a secret organization that organized a terrorist attack on US soil not long ago, and may even have been instrumental to 9/11 (according to CR). Beam fails to recognize a crook, something Felix Leiter, however, sees right away.

    The way I read it was that Beam was perfectly aware of Greene's nefarious acts, but didn't really care as they were of no immediate threat and would be worth keeping sweet, no matter their history. Wouldn't be the first time the US had courted terrorists. I can see how you would also come to the conclusion that he's ignorant and I'm not saying you're wrong, I just assumed that Quantum don't fit the profile Du Jour for terrorists and thus there is no pressing need to mount serious operations against them. If they'd been a bunch of middle eastern blokes they'd be ripe for the picking, no matter their political persuasion. As it stands they're a bunch of seemingly politically neutral Caucasians blokes. I'll keep this in mind the next time I watch, like I said, it's just the way I took it.

  • Posts: 15,124
    Oh I think Beeam knows Greene is a scumbag, he just fails to see that an eel is an eel for everyone.
  • Posts: 7,653
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Oh I think Beam knows Greene is a scumbag, he just fails to see that an eel is an eel for everyone.

    I think Beam doesn't care about Greene's motives as long as they do not clash with the interest of his boss, which is in this case good old US of A. Which is basically his job, protecting the interests of the USA in a way he thinks would be best or his boss tells him is best. Beam is like Bond a tool to obtain a result.
    In that sense the script of QoB was actually quite good and subtle in making Greene & Quantum the baddies and Beam as well but with a different agenda.
    In the hands of a decent director with more vision and talent QoS could have been a contender.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    SaintMark wrote: »
    In the hands of a decent director with more vision and talent QoS could have been a contender.
    Oh, I think Forster did a helluva job considering he went in shooting with a story idea as opposed to a finished script. Making a motion picture on the fly isn't conducive to coherency or nuance. Give the man a break?
  • Posts: 315
    Unlike the fleas who confuse post activity with accomplishment, Beam is more interested in the result than the methods. While some think that picking his teeth and rolling his eyes makes Greene an intelligent bad guy, that's far from accurate. Like little gnat, his bravado masks the fact he is forced to hide behind a large security force and could accomplish nothing on his own. Someone needs to wipe their chin.
  • Posts: 7,653
    FLeiter wrote: »
    Unlike the fleas who confuse post activity with accomplishment, Beam is more interested in the result than the methods. While some think that picking his teeth and rolling his eyes makes Greene an intelligent bad guy, that's far from accurate. Like little gnat, his bravado masks the fact he is forced to hide behind a large security force and could accomplish nothing on his own. Someone needs to wipe their chin.

    Quantum is the baddie with Greene as a front.

  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    FLeiter wrote: »
    Beam is more interested in the result than the methods.

    Like Hitler.
  • Posts: 11,119
    RC7 wrote: »
    FLeiter wrote: »
    Beam is more interested in the result than the methods.

    Like Hitler.

    Hitler combined both. Tight, effective methods, planning with a very high success rate of results.
  • Posts: 7,653
    RC7 wrote: »
    FLeiter wrote: »
    Beam is more interested in the result than the methods.

    Like Hitler.

    Hitler combined both. Tight, effective methods, planning with a very high success rate of results.

    His longterm planning kinda sucked though. :D

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    SaintMark wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    FLeiter wrote: »
    Beam is more interested in the result than the methods.

    Like Hitler.

    Hitler combined both. Tight, effective methods, planning with a very high success rate of results.

    His longterm planning kinda sucked though. :D
    Lucky for us he had that back-up gun, eh?
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited October 2014 Posts: 15,718
    Beam was kind of like the Boris of QOS. Clumsy, awkward, but hilarious character. I couldn't stop laughing each time he was on screen.
  • Posts: 1,993
    QoS improves with subsequent viewings

    Watched QoS again last night and came away thinking this is a much better film than I have previously given credit. The PTS and title song are immediately off putting, but
    I watched the opening chase in slo-mo, which made it a lot more tolerable. For me, the editing is the main problem. Get passed those scenes that you almost cannot focus on and it's a good film.

    Greene is the type of villain LeChiffre was. Not some think 100 moves ahead like Silva.

    I think killing off Mathis was a mistake.

    This film moves up on my list.







  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I agree, I didn't like it at first but with repeated viewings, it's pretty good.
    In fact it's a shame ( due to the writers strike no doubt) that they didn't
    Expand on Greene, who seemed an interesting villain , who I'd liked to
    Have seen more of.
    Daniel Craig is also very impressive, a great actor who's also good
    At the physical stuff. :)
  • Posts: 11,425
    chrisisall wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    In the hands of a decent director with more vision and talent QoS could have been a contender.
    Oh, I think Forster did a helluva job considering he went in shooting with a story idea as opposed to a finished script. Making a motion picture on the fly isn't conducive to coherency or nuance. Give the man a break?

    Totally agree. Given the circumstances Forster did a decent job. Some parts, like the plane and the ending in the desert don't work that well, but I like a lot of the film. I wish Forster had immersed himself more in Bond - in interviews he seems to know nothing about the other films.
  • ThomasCrown76ThomasCrown76 Augusta, ks
    Posts: 757
    Not a bad film. Should've been better, but still watchable
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Definitely should have been better, and that is a darn shame. Maybe this is the one that they should have waited 3 years before releasing in theatres, because while it's a very enjoyable Bond film (and moves at a very rapid and intense pace) it also suffered as a result of the writer's strike. The biggest casualty was character development & dialogue.

    Having said that, and despite this flaw (that cannot be blamed on the team because it was outside their control) they delivered a very coherent script and a movie that is going to be seen in a new light post-SP, as details of the Quantum story are likely to be filled in.

    As it stands, the movie is very entertaining and is a slow burner, similar to LTK. First watch is just meh, but on repeated viewings, the sheer brilliance of some of it becomes more apparent.

    In particular the cinematography, colours & artsy feel (unlike any other Bond film before) are standouts. Arnold's score is his best work IMO. Craig is in excellent, intense, sophomore form and cements his interpretation of Bond. The supporting cast (Greene, Kurylenko, Giannini, Wright, Arterton, Barbour) are all in fine form. Even Dench is not as annoying as in previous films or as in SF.

    Given what they were up again, the team really delivered. I'd love to see a re-edited version where we can actually make out what's going on in the action scenes. I also wouldn't mind Forster back for one more, as long as we have a new action editor.

    Truly underrated.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    bondjames wrote: »
    In particular the cinematography, colours & artsy feel (unlike any other Bond film before) are standouts. Arnold's score is his best work IMO. Craig is in excellent, intense, sophomore form and cements his interpretation of Bond. The supporting cast (Greene, Kurylenko, Giannini, Wright, Arterton, Barbour) are all in fine form. Even Dench is not as annoying as in previous films or as in SF.

    Given what they were up again, the team really delivered. I'd love to see a re-edited version where we can actually make out what's going on in the action scenes. I also wouldn't mind Forster back for one more, as long as we have a new action editor.

    Truly underrated.
    We see this move precisely the same way, B!
    :)>-
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    bondjames wrote: »
    Definitely should have been better, and that is a darn shame. Maybe this is the one that they should have waited 3 years before releasing in theatres, because while it's a very enjoyable Bond film (and moves at a very rapid and intense pace) it also suffered as a result of the writer's strike. The biggest casualty was character development & dialogue.

    Having said that, and despite this flaw (that cannot be blamed on the team because it was outside their control) they delivered a very coherent script and a movie that is going to be seen in a new light post-SP, as details of the Quantum story are likely to be filled in.

    As it stands, the movie is very entertaining and is a slow burner, similar to LTK. First watch is just meh, but on repeated viewings, the sheer brilliance of some of it becomes more apparent.

    In particular the cinematography, colours & artsy feel (unlike any other Bond film before) are standouts. Arnold's score is his best work IMO. Craig is in excellent, intense, sophomore form and cements his interpretation of Bond. The supporting cast (Greene, Kurylenko, Giannini, Wright, Arterton, Barbour) are all in fine form. Even Dench is not as annoying as in previous films or as in SF.

    Given what they were up again, the team really delivered. I'd love to see a re-edited version where we can actually make out what's going on in the action scenes. I also wouldn't mind Forster back for one more, as long as we have a new action editor.

    Truly underrated.

    I'd actually argue that QoS has some of the strongest character development of the entire series, especially where Bond is concerned. He learns so much from Mathis, M and the memory of Vesper in the film that by the end he's very much a different man than before, more in line with the agent we all know and love. I also love the dialogue of it, drama, comedy and all.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    I'd actually argue that QoS has some of the strongest character development of the entire series, especially where Bond is concerned. He learns so much from Mathis, M and the memory of Vesper in the film that by the end he's very much a different man than before, more in line with the agent we all know and love. I also love the dialogue of it, drama, comedy and all.
    Agree 100% here too.
    OMG, are we a sub-group of born-again QOSers?
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