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"Fixing" bad special effects

thelordflasheartthelordflasheart
edited July 2011 in Bond Movies Posts: 1,370
Everyone complains about the atrocious CGI in DAD, but there are many Bond films that have bad special effects - whether CGI, model work, obvious stuntdoubles, or rear-screen projection. What if we could fix it?

Don't think of middling efforts like the "remastered" versions of the original Star Trek episodes, imagine if we could have state -of-the-art (or a little beyond that, perhaps with help from Q branch) special effects that "clean up" Bond films. Would they lose some of their charm, or would they become even greater and more entralling than what they already are without those distractions?

If you could fix a scene in a film, what would your top choice be? For me it would be the sped up film and horrible fake backgrounds during the final fight on the Disco Volante in TB.

Comments

  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited July 2011 Posts: 13,356
    The back-projection used for the car chase in Dr. No would be my number choice. Though if you fixed it, it just wouldn't feel right anymore. Just like if the cameraman in the mirror from The Man With The Golden Gun was altered it'd be a bad idea.

    The Bond films should be left the way they are, they're not Star Wars - yet.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I always get taken out of the moment of the Madagascar chase in CR because the presence of the stunt double for Craig is so obvious. I feel the double could have been masked better to look like Craig, like dying his hair instead of a loose top of hair as it appears to be.
  • 00130013
    Posts: 1,817
    I admit I don't like many of the effects of YOLT... neither the car chase in DN. But I prefer to keep them as they are than to have special editions where professor Dent shot first.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    Don't alter the effects, let the past be the past... always save better effects for newer films....

    And it just wasn't the awful CGI that made those scenes in DAD horrible - it was the thought process behind creating those scenes.
  • RogueThunderballRogueThunderball
    Posts: 306
    In a perfect world I would fix many scenes. Nothing drives me nuts more than those crappy back-screen projections that almost never look real and make those scenes feel cheap.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,722
    Don't alter the effects, let the past be the past...
    Totally agree - They should never remaster the Bond films to the point of altering scenes.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,249
    They oughtn't change anything about the films, with perhaps the single exception of the annoying sound whistle in TMWTGG. And even that is debatable. ;;)
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited July 2011 Posts: 15,722
    They oughtn't change anything about the films, with perhaps the single exception of the annoying sound whistle in TMWTGG. And even that is debatable. ;;)
    I hope this is a joke... TMWTGG is perfect as it is... And I love the slide whistle !! :-D
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited July 2011 Posts: 24,249
    5.999.999.999 people disagree with you, DC ;;)
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,722
    5.999.999.999 people disagree with you, DC ;;)
    Aren't we 6.5 billions on earth ? So 500 millions people agree with me !! ;-)
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,249
    Well, Leonidas only needed his 300 so I guess I shouldn't grow overconfident just yet. ;;)
  • Monsieur_AubergineMonsieur_Aubergine Top of the Eiffel Tower with a fly in my soup!
    Posts: 642
    DAF- all the final explosions of the missiles, Chinese guy on fire etc, don't get me started on the oil rig, real shame as it let's down the only real threat line that the film had.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,163
    Leave the effects as they are. They remind us of times past.
    The back projection and the sped up film, in some of the early films is what gives them some of their charm. Though in the more recent entries, it's what takes some of the charm away. I'm looking at you Die Another Day!
  • SJK91SJK91
    Posts: 1,310
    Leave everything in its originality. Leave the Dr. No green screens, the DAF missiles, the DAD parasailing, the horrible TMWTGG whistle and everything else alone...

    Restoration is one thing, but when you start fixing things and adding things (a la the 1997 and 2004 re-issues of the original Star Wars films), I believe it takes away from what made the films either great or not so great in the first place.

    So leave it all, no changes whatsoever to any of the films from the past. That goes for any film, ever.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited July 2011 Posts: 24,249
    So leave it all, no changes whatsoever to any of the films from the past. That goes for any film, ever.
    I only partially agree. For starters, I don't mind a director's cut being released because in some cases the director's vision is so much more interesting than the producers'. Blade Runner, for example, really does impress me with its Final Cut. The enhanced visuals and sound, the removal of Ford's dull voice-over and a few other tiny changes, make it in my opinion a stronger film than the original, domestic cut.

    Secondly, 'uncut' or 'unrated' or 'expanded' editions are often so much more desirable as well. Some scenes are deleted for terribly silly reasons, not rarely thought up by the MPAA and sorts. The Exorcist, for example, thrived heavily on the added 'spider' scene, at least IMO.

    I'm not saying that the Bonds require such a treatment though. You're absolutely right; they're great as they are.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    There is alaso Terminator 2 which had a directors cut in 1997 and (arguably) is a better film because of it.

    In regard to fixing sfx in Bond I came across this MWTGG vid on youtube. It has the original slide wistle sound effect AND a re-edited version complete with the James Bond theme



    See which one is better.

    As for DAD's wind-surfing, that's Dead on Arrival ;)
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited July 2011 Posts: 15,722


    In regard to fixing sfx in Bond I came across this MWTGG vid on youtube. It has the original slide wistle sound effect AND a re-edited version complete with the James Bond theme



    See which one is better.
    The one with the slide whistle, of course.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,249
    I so much prefer the version without the whistle, although now I'm faced with another inexcusable flaw: Peppah's yells, spoiling the fun of the Bond Theme. Ah well, they also left the whistle on the soundtrack CD, which again is inexcusable. :P
  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    Posts: 4,813
    While not a special effect, I did have a most random thought of something I would add, :)
    You see I'm the 'Best Man' at a wedding for the first time, and as the wedding approaches, I've started having recurring nightmares of losing the ring-- or making it all the way to the altar and it's simply not in my pocket anymore!! I'm sure every Best Man has had this creeping fear before the big day!
    Wouldn't it have been hilarious if in LTK, after the shootout in the PTS with Bond jumping and diving around, Felix (instead of saying 'trying to get yourself killed') he yells AGAIN 'You still have the ring???' lol I would have loved that

    But seriously, back on topic, I'm not about to turn the Bond movies into the next 'Star Wars SPECIAL EDITIONS', but in all honesty, if they got rid of the damn whistle in TMWTGG, it would be a welcome improvement....
    As for the CGI surfing in DAD..... well, they shouldn't have done it in the first place!!
  • OnlyManWhoCanOnlyManWhoCan Greater London
    Posts: 202
    Good thread topic! Although I would have to side with the majority, in that I wouldn't want to REALLY change anything as it defeats its charm, it is still fun to think about.

    I would like to change the obviously sped up fighting in OHMSS, because I believe that Bond will still seem like a total badass even if he punched a little slower. The whole films is so sumptuous that it makes the sped up footage look tacky and cheap

    Same goes for the back projection at the end in the bobsleigh, but for some reason I don't mind that as much. One could argue it actually makes the scene more abscract; more a reflection of the chaotic nature of Bond's/Blofeld's minds during the fight! (strokes chin).
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited August 2011 Posts: 41,007
    That sound whistle in TMWTGG irks me, as do the missile explosions in DAF. Also, in OHMSS' finale, there's a shot where a helicopter shifts position, and it kind of just appears a few feet ahead of it's former location. As for other things, like the cameraman in the mirror in TMWTGG, it's very entertaining to notice every time, haha.

    EDIT: I almost just spit up my drink while watching TSWLM. When that motorcycle flies through the guardrail, the leg on the dummy just goes stiff. Was so fake and so hilarious.
  • CraterGunsCraterGuns
    Posts: 618
    I'd have no problem with dodgy (by modern standards) FX shots being digitally tweaked -- as long as the films in their original form remain available. (Blu-ray is the perfect medium for this.)

    Off the top of my head, I'd firstly airbrush out the glaringly noticeable white support rod holding up the mock AcroStar jet as it "speeds" through the hangar in OCTOPUSSY.
    They could also do something about Gobinda's parachute straps -- clearly visible -- when he falls to his death during the climax.

    Ever since getting a 56-inch TV, less-than-stellar effects like those stick out more than ever.
  • CrabKeyCrabKey
    Posts: 2,022
    Take out all the speeded up footage in the Connery films.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,007
    @CraterGuns, Gobinda's parachute straps always bugged me, too. Blatantly obvious.

    I would like to fix all the sped-up footage, the chandelier obviously not connecting with Zao during the Ice Castle battle in DAD, and some of the shots of the stuntmen that could not be more of a "Look at me, I'm not Roger Moore!" banner.
  • JBFan626JBFan626
    Posts: 1,497
    Leave the effects as they are. They remind us of times past.
    The back projection and the sped up film, in some of the early films is what gives them some of their charm.     Though in the more recent entries, it's what takes some of the charm away. I'm looking at you Die Another Day!
    Right on the money.

    Even DAF--it's little touches like the Chinese man on fire that puts these films in the echelon of absurd hilarity.

  • VirageVirage
    edited August 2011 Posts: 1,856
    and some of the shots of the stuntmen that could not be more of a "Look at me, I'm not Roger Moore!" banner.
    Worst: bond jumping onto the Eiffel tower elevator in AVTAK
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited August 2011 Posts: 41,007
    @Virage, Oh, yeah, that's really bad. Another really bad bit: when Moore is climbing around on the top of the plane at the end of OP. That was terrible.

    Also, something I just noticed while watching the film: where does Ourumov and his goons run off to in the PTS of GE when Bond jumps off the runway with the motorcycle? When we see the shot of the plant detonating, they are nowhere to be found. If they went off either side, they would have fallen to their death, and if they want back in, it would have exploded. Hmm...
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