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Massacre in Oslo

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  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,978
    My problem with religion is that most fundamentalists find, say, homosexuality disgusting, wrong, and feel that it is in their right (Christians) to tell them who and how to love, along with telling them that nobody wants to know or hear about their sexuality, and to keep it to themselves. In turn, said fundamentalists feel it's alright to spread their beliefs in such a way
    And what exactly might the problem be here. Sounds like the exercise of freedom of expression from both sides of the sex camps.
    Would we be better off legislating correct thinking and then enforce it? It's been done. It's called communism.
    It's just hypocrisy. Don't sit there and tell homosexuals to keep to themselves and that they're wrong, and then also sit there and think it is acceptable to preach your views to the world. If everyone can do it, let the homosexuals express as much as they want.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    Muslims are considered all evil.
    I scowl at the thought that you would grant me such narrow-minded views, dear friend. I teach a diverse group of pupils, diverse in terms of ethnicity, skin colour, religion, sex and sexual preferences, social background, physical abilities and disabilities and political views. My experiences with Muslims are in no sense different from my experiences with other youngsters and I certainly do not consider them all to be evil. In fact, I get along with them pretty well. Not that it matters, but some youngsters very recently told me I am one of the most open-minded teachers they've ever known to hang around in a catholic school. I nevertheless believe that Muslim spokespersons sometimes express themselves in clumsy terms, clouded in irrational and medieval thinking, but I'm not naive enough to think that the Christian community doesn't feature the same kind of people. This monster, for example, is probably a product of dangerous doctrines, possibly self-taught, and cannot be excused for what he's done.

    I don't consider you narrowminded but you drag religion into it yourself. I disagree with you it plays any part in this mans awefull acts.

    I don't care to compare you in anyway with that man whatever his beliefs, nobody should listen to such a nutball who goes on a shootingrampage because he disagrees with other people. His beliefs suddenly become void and nill, his acts speak and they they don't serve him well.

  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    So... When a terrorist kills in the name of the far-right, it's a lunatic, but when it's for the name of Islam, it's a Muslim... Weird, isn't it ?
  • DiscoVolanteDiscoVolante Stockholm, Sweden
    edited July 2011 Posts: 1,347
    A single person shooting 80+ teenagers to death and blowing another seven people up is so hard to take in.

    My deepest condolences to our neighbours in the west... This is the worst tragedy I can remember happening in Scandinavia.

    Vila i frid. :(
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,187
    I was just told that some nut opened fire somewhere in Texas... Any word on that?
  • j7wildj7wild Suspended
    edited July 2011 Posts: 823
    I was just told that some nut opened fire somewhere in Texas... Any word on that?
    WOW!

    Another nutcase!

    This is in Grand Prairie, Texas!

    http://www.imagebam.com/image/adcfe0142001993

    It's near between Dallas and Fort Worth in North Texas!

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43869906/ns/local_news-dallas_fort_worth_tx/
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,187
    I'm suddenly reminded of Dirty Harry, although in that film we have a ransom case. Both situations are nuts of course. What's with these nutters going berserk all the time?

    Call me paranoid, but I believe that if the presses would simply not report on any of these cases, some weirdos might not even think about doing anything of the sorts. I may be very wrong of course.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    edited July 2011 Posts: 3,262
    He's a very conservative Christian with some screws loose.
    Just because someone may claim to be a very conservative Christian doesn't necessarily mean he is one.

    You have a good point there. Of course, it really boils down to his personal interpretation of what a conservative Christian is all about. I somewhat consider myself a conservative Christian yet this man and I have nothing in common I dare say.
    Interesting update about Anders Behring Breivik entitled "Terrorist proclaimed himself
    'Darwinian,' not 'Christian': Norwegian's manifesto shows not religious, having no personal faith ":

    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.printable&pageId=325765

    This quote is interesting:

    "The terrorist also candidly admits he finds no support within either the Catholic or Protestant churches for his violent ideas. "

    So is this quote from Mr. Brevik himself:

    '"I'm not going to pretend I'm a very religious person, as that would be a lie," he says. "I've always been very pragmatic and influenced by my secular surroundings and environment."

  • TracyTracy
    Posts: 1,708
    He met some people in london , april 2002.....they were from all over Europe and shares his views.
  • thelordflasheartthelordflasheart
    Posts: 1,370


    (see the same-sex marriage debate here in Canada several years back) yet these same religious people try to force their "lifestyle" on others - trying to get sex ed taken out of schools, enforce Christian prayer (but none from other religions) during City Council meetings, making it illegal to have a business open on certain holidays like Xmas or Easter Sunday
    what are you going on about? you seem to be confusing normal debate on the issues of the day in a democratic society with "forcing"
    In a democracy the will of the people, whatever that will might be, rules the day. Eg to use your example, ssm passed a vote in the House of Commons under the old Liberal government. But that legislation wouldn't have stood a chance of passing since the Conservatives took over 5 years ago.
    Just the way it goes in a democracy. No forcing.
    btw I live in the same city as you and I am not aware of any, forced or otherwise, Christian prayer in the public schools, however there has been a big flap recently over
    Islamic prayer services in public schools. Hmmm

    Timmer, re-read my post. I did not say that every example I stated was happening in Toronto this week. Why would you think that I meant that when I never said that? Instead of making assumptions about what I mean, just go by what I actually say.

    With regards to the four items I'm referring to those have happened in different cities in Canada and the US where I've lived or have friends. Closing down a condom store (in Calgary when I lived there) was indeed "forcing something" on me. I then no longer had a place that sold a wide variety of condoms (the quality difference between the cheap ones you find in a drugstore and the ones sold in the specialty store was like the difference between a Goodyear tire and a thin latex glove a surgeon would use). If the Christians who insisted that the city not renew the business licence didn't want to buy condoms there, fine. But to deny me the ability to buy condoms there because they thought it "immoral" and "glorifying pre-marital sex" then they are indeed forcing something on me - a lack of being able to life my life the way I want to. It's like a great billboard my girlfriend took a picture of in NYC - "If you don't like gay marriage then just don't get gay married!".

    Interesting poll just came out in April - 63% of Canadians now support same-sex marriage (Leger Marketing). So while the Reform Party (rebranded as The Conservatives) would not likely propose legislation legalizing it I wonder if a private member's bill would pass. Witness NY where some Republicans are now thinking that they don't want to be on the wrong side of history.

  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    The bodycount of the shooting has been toned down to 68.
  • DiscoVolanteDiscoVolante Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts: 1,347
    http://www.aftonbladet.se/

    look at that smiling a$$hole peace of sh*t
  • j7wildj7wild Suspended
    Posts: 823
    http://www.aftonbladet.se/

    look at that smiling a$$hole peace of sh*t
    that's evidence that he has no remorse for his action and he is aware what he has done and he shouldn't be allowed to plead not guilty by reason of insanity

  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    http://www.aftonbladet.se/

    look at that smiling a$$hole peace of sh*t
    that's evidence that he has no remorse for his action and he is aware what he has done and he shouldn't be allowed to plead not guilty by reason of insanity

    Agreed althought that means he will get 21 years of imprisonment instead of the death penalty which his crimes warrant.

  • Smirnoff_PurpleSmirnoff_Purple
    Posts: 110
    http://www.aftonbladet.se/

    look at that smiling a$$hole peace of sh*t
    that's evidence that he has no remorse for his action and he is aware what he has done and he shouldn't be allowed to plead not guilty by reason of insanity

    Agreed althought that means he will get 21 years of imprisonment instead of the death penalty which his crimes warrant.

    Further evidence that the law can just be crazy at times. Whether or not one agrees with the death penalty (I honestly am undecided about it in general and don't fault people for being of either view), 21 years seems insanely light for what he's done. First time I've commented on this thread, but RIP those killed and may peace somehow find their friends and families, along with all those affected. There's no excuse for what he did.
  • DiscoVolanteDiscoVolante Stockholm, Sweden
    edited July 2011 Posts: 1,347
    He will be sent to prison for life... Norway's maximum prison time is called "storage" which can be set to a maximum of 21 years. After that however, they can decide to keep him for five more years at a time. So, he'll probably sit 21+5+5+5+5... 'til the sucker dies.
  • j7wildj7wild Suspended
    Posts: 823
    why won't he get the death penalty?
  • DiscoVolanteDiscoVolante Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts: 1,347
    Because Norway don't have death penalty.

    Lifetime imprisonment is a far worse and better penalty anyway, he shouldn't get away with an instant death.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    Because Norway don't have death penalty.

    Lifetime imprisonment is a far worse and better penalty anyway, he shouldn't get away with an instant death.
    What are Norwegian prisons like? If they'd make him do something like tough manual labor on a chain gang every day for the rest of his life that's one thing but I've read from some that their prisons are almost like country clubs or hotels.
  • timmertimmer
    edited July 2011 Posts: 4,622
    If everyone can do it, let the homosexuals express as much as they want.
    Exactly. Freedom of expression is a wonderful thing. Guard it dearly.

  • timmertimmer
    edited July 2011 Posts: 4,622
    @thelordflasheart

    "Timmer, re-read my post. I did not say that every example I stated was happening in Toronto this week."
    I didn't say that you said that, so no worries.
    My point was that you seemed to be expressing outrage at persons daring to voice and promote a pov that ran contrary to your own thinking or broader progressive thinking.
    Nothing is more important in a democracy than freedom of expression.
    btw who cares why a condom store was closed down. Market forces. That's how business works.
    My local blockbuster closed. Big deal.

  • forgotmyusernameforgotmyusername
    Posts: 2,782
    If everyone can do it, let the homosexuals express as much as they want.
    but not in my face.

  • commandbond007commandbond007
    Posts: 660
    so he pleads not guilty? but he wont be going to jail..and no justice to the victims family....
  • thelordflasheartthelordflasheart
    Posts: 1,370
    @thelordflasheart

    "Timmer, re-read my post. I did not say that every example I stated was happening in Toronto this week."
    I didn't say that you said that, so no worries.
    My point was that you seemed to be expressing outrage at persons daring to voice and promote a pov that ran contrary to your own thinking or broader progressive thinking.
    Nothing is more important in a democracy than freedom of expression.
    btw who cares why a condom store was closed down. Market forces. That's how business works.
    My local blockbuster closed. Big deal.

    Timmer, it wasn't "market forces" that closed the store down - it was a group of conservative Christians who persuaded the city not to renew the business licence because they thought the store was immoral and promoted pre-marital sex (I already stated that in my last post, so I don't know why you thought it closed because of market forces). The store was quite profitable and well liked by a lot of younger people who found the products vastly superior to what you could buy in drug stores. All of them - and myself - cared when the store was forced to close. As it was a profitble venture there's no equating it with Blockbuster.

    This would be a good analogy - you really like Bond films and find them far superior to other action films. There's only one video store where you can rent them (this is the mid-90s, remember - no easy downloading or buying off of Amazon). A group of conservative Christians is upset because they believe that the Bond films promote pre-marital sex and are immoral. Rather than be content to not rent the films themselves they want to take away your right to see them (forcing their morals on you). They convince enough politicians to make it so the video store's business licence is not renewed even though it's a profitable business and pays taxes into the city's coffers.



  • timmertimmer
    edited July 2011 Posts: 4,622
    "thelordflasheart" said

    "Timmer, it wasn't "market forces" that closed the store down - it was a group of conservative Christians who persuaded the city not to renew the business licence because they thought the store was immoral and promoted pre-marital sex (I already stated that in my last post, so I don't know why you thought it closed because of market forces). "
    ======
    You make my point for me. No one was forced. The democratically elected council chose not to renew the business license. Your beef is with the council. Throw the bums out and elect more condom-friendly councillors. Government red tape is part of the market equation.
    btw I've never heard of any group protesting the renting of Bond movies, let alone a wacko Christian sect, but even if one did, your beef is with the politicians. Throw the bums out. Democracy in action.

  • VirageVirage
    Posts: 1,856
    Just plain tragic :-(
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,187
    Looks like the Oslo shooter expected to be shot on his way to court. I wonder if he craves the easy way out.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited July 2011 Posts: 15,718
    Looks like the Oslo shooter expected to be shot on his way to court. I wonder if he craves the easy way out.
    I doubt it... He wanted his trial to be public, so he can explain his motivations and racial theories to the whole world. I think the 'easy way out' of being shot is totally out of the question for him. It is a weakness, in his mind.

  • forgotmyusernameforgotmyusername
    edited July 2011 Posts: 2,782
    He could be found hanged in his cell in the morning?

    Just as bad is the EDL have been in bed with him - what is that sick bunch of war mongering terrorists thugs have in store for the UK?

    Reminds me of the early 80s with the APL, they made my life hell in school.
  • forgotmyusernameforgotmyusername
    Posts: 2,782
    http://www.reuters.com/video/2011/07/29/norway-remembers-muslims-killed?videoId=217687148&videoChannel=117760
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