SPECTRE Trailer/TV Spot Thread - NEW TV Spots Page 117 - Final Trailer Page 106

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Comments

  • edited March 2015 Posts: 2,015
    Germanlady wrote: »
    Can we stop calling each other idiots? How idiotic is that? And its no difference, if you do it in French @ parachute.
    If you see "idiots" in my French sentences, it refers to Univex calling idiots whole categorie of persons (I suspect, exclusively those who disagree with him), including me, who happens to consider a dubbed movie can be very good. The only criticism I made of him was a slight allusion to someone being obsessed with very weird things (here : considering the dubbing as a good indicator society has gone wrong).
    I will insist here again that although lots of people claim dubbing is bad and for lazy persons, it is often overlooked that subtitling can be very bad too. In talkative movies, you can have only a third of what's being said on screen sometimes.
    Pour quelqu'un qui prétend parler six langues (mais sa modestie l'empêche de le prouver), il ne me parait pas très ouvert d'esprit ! :)

    For instance here in the French subtitles of the trailer :

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?t=50&v=7CRxuCI8c1I

    "I was at a meeting recently" = "Lors d'une réunion".
    The fact Bond says he was at the meeting he talks about, is lost in the subtitles.

    And for instance, when White delivers slowly the kite line, bam, the subtitle gives it to you instantly. While the Waltz delivery rythm is respected.

    And all this merely on a trailer.

    Moreover, I can't say more here, but well, we can expect quite some subtitles in this movie :)


  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    The definition of an idiot is someone with an IQ benath 75, which is what it takes to figure out how to open a door.
  • edited March 2015 Posts: 2,015
    I'll add one more image for whose who never talk about the problems with the subtitles :

    622976multi.png

    This is what happens when you have to do subtitles for a country where several languages are spoken. Hoyte is not happy :)

    And finally, subtitles are a pain in 3D movies, you have to deal with texts that float here and there.
    The definition of an idiot is someone with an IQ benath 75, which is what it takes to figure out how to open a door.

    Dubbing vs Subtitles is an ongoing debate for a long time, and it's incredible how those who defend the subtitles as a way to respect the subtlety of an actor, rarely display any subtlety in their comments : "Dubbing is for idiots" is quite a good summary of most discussions about it !
  • Posts: 6,601
    (:|
  • edited March 2015 Posts: 2,015
    One last comment about translation to make you sleep even more : in France, "SPECTRE" will be called "007 SPECTRE". Because of legal issues, we have to "translate" a French word :)
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Really. parachute? Is there no way you can see a film with just one set of subtitles? Poor Switzerland with their four languages if that is the case.
  • Posts: 625
    Really. parachute? Is there no way you can see a film with just one set of subtitles? Poor Switzerland with their four languages if that is the case.

    In Germany, France and Italy the movie will be dubbed, not subtitled.
    So in Switzerland they will watch either the german version or the french or the italien, depending in what part of the country they are.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Matt007 wrote: »
    One other thing. I wouldn't be surprised if in the film Bloefeld is shown as the final shot and is an as yet unknown / Un cast actor.

    True.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Matt007 wrote: »
    One other thing. I wouldn't be surprised if in the film Bloefeld is shown as the final shot and is an as yet unknown / Un cast actor.

    True.

    I highly doubt this. In fact, I'd put money on it.
  • Posts: 11,119
    You know what I especially liked. And I'm still humming this sentence:

    "You're a kite dancing in a hurricane....Mr. Bond"

    It gave me the chills really, combined with his empty-looking eyes. A preview on great screenplay writing...when it comes to dialogue?? Jesper Christensen is a marvelous actor really.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Jan1985 wrote: »
    Really. parachute? Is there no way you can see a film with just one set of subtitles? Poor Switzerland with their four languages if that is the case.

    In Germany, France and Italy the movie will be dubbed, not subtitled.
    So in Switzerland they will watch either the german version or the french or the italien, depending in what part of the country they are.

    So how come, if you do not have to listen to four people talking in each other s mouths when a film is dubbed, you have to endure that chaos if the film is subtitled?
    I presume the example above is from Belgium.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    The definition of an idiot is someone with an IQ benath 75, which is what it takes to figure out how to open a door.

    Well, a few PMs have been sent out to try and put a stop to this. Hopefully we can move on.
  • Posts: 229
    Jan1985 wrote: »
    Really. parachute? Is there no way you can see a film with just one set of subtitles? Poor Switzerland with their four languages if that is the case.

    In Germany, France and Italy the movie will be dubbed, not subtitled.
    So in Switzerland they will watch either the german version or the french or the italien, depending in what part of the country they are.
    In France you can choose to see the movies dubbed or subtitles. Both options are available in cinemas.
  • edited March 2015 Posts: 2,015
    maxcraig wrote: »
    In France you can choose to see the movies dubbed or subtitles. Both options are available in cinemas.
    Hm, subtitled movies can be seen mostly in large towns. You can have only dubbed movies in areas that are very large. You can have to drive 100/200kms to find a subtitled movie (for instance : Clermont Ferrand, I just checked it's hard to find American Sniper with subtitles near it).
    I think Moore's popularity in France owes *a lot* to his French dubber (some actors have the same French dubber for most of their work). After that Dalton, Brosnan, Craig.. "generic" dubbing alas I'm afraid. Moore's dubber was so "popular" (and unknown at the same time by the large audience) that you have a famous impersonator here in France that sometimes impersonates Moore's French voice !


  • Posts: 625
    maxcraig wrote: »
    Jan1985 wrote: »
    Really. parachute? Is there no way you can see a film with just one set of subtitles? Poor Switzerland with their four languages if that is the case.

    In Germany, France and Italy the movie will be dubbed, not subtitled.
    So in Switzerland they will watch either the german version or the french or the italien, depending in what part of the country they are.
    In France you can choose to see the movies dubbed or subtitles. Both options are available in cinemas.

    In Germany you can choose, too. At least here in Hamburg, there are cinemas showing the dubbed version, one or two cinemas showing the subtitled version and one or two cinemas showing the original version without subtitles.

    Germany is the biggest dubbing-market in the world. Since the invention of talking pictures movies are dubbed in Germany. Every movie star from overseas has his own famous german voice actor. Everyone in Germany knows the german voice of Tom Hanks, but almost no one know how Tom Hanks' real voice sounds.
    But believe me, dubbing actors are really good actors. They don't harm the actors original voice performance.

    Sometimes the dubbed version is way better than the original. George Lazenby had the same voice in Germany as Sean Connery. So Lazenby sounded as cool as Connery as Bond.
  • edited March 2015 Posts: 2,015
    Jan1985 wrote: »
    But believe me, dubbing actors are really good actors. They don't harm the actors original voice performance.
    Oh yes. People criticize dubbing because a bad dubbing can be such a disaster. People almost never criticize subtitles because bad subtitles go unnoticed so easily... There's a legend in some movie someone shouts "Tank !" and the subtitle goes "Merci !" ("Thanks !") :)

    Alas, now dubbers have to work under pressure, and sometimes they're monitored by people from the US studio who may not even speak the language. They just check no initiative is taken... In the 70/80s, dubbers could have weeks to work before the release in the foreign countries that was much later than in the USA. In TMWTGG, the French Roger Moore talks about vibrators instead of toothbrushes, that's a French adaptation for you :)

    PS : The dubbed version of the trailer that is the most seen for the moment seems to be the Russian one, with about 0.7M views. Really, if you think dubbing is for idiots, IMO you'd better wonder why you became so snobbish so young :)
  • Posts: 15,105
    You know what I especially liked. And I'm still humming this sentence:

    "You're a kite dancing in a hurricane....Mr. Bond"

    It gave me the chills really, combined with his empty-looking eyes. A preview on great screenplay writing...when it comes to dialogue?? Jesper Christensen is a marvelous actor really.

    Love this line. In fact Mr White remains as threatening in this scene as he was in previous movies, even as a shadow of himself.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    No doubt subtitles can be terrible, but at least you can judge that by yourself as the original voicework of the actors is intact. No such thing with dubbing.
  • Posts: 11,119
    Jan1985 wrote: »
    But believe me, dubbing actors are really good actors. They don't harm the actors original voice performance.
    Oh yes. People criticize dubbing because a bad dubbing can be such a disaster. People almost never criticize subtitles because bad subtitles go unnoticed so easily... There's a legend in some movie someone shouts "Tank !" and the subtitle goes "Merci !" ("Thanks !") :)

    Alas, now dubbers have to work under pressure, and sometimes they're monitored by people from the US studio who may not even speak the language. They just check no initiative is taken... In the 70/80s, dubbers could have weeks to work before the release in the foreign countries that was much later than in the USA. In TMWTGG, the French Roger Moore talks about vibrators instead of toothbrushes, that's a French adaptation for you :)

    PS : The dubbed version of the trailer that is the most seen for the moment seems to be the Russian one, with about 0.7M views. Really, if you think dubbing is for idiots, IMO you'd better wonder why you became so snobbish so young :)

    Are there actually protest groups in Germany, Spain or France who are advocates of sole, original language versions of movies?

    I was wondering this. I am Dutch myself, and for me there's no greater insult to an actor by dubbing his/her real voice. All intonation, all vocal "color" in my opinion gets lost. And on top of that....jokes do get a different vibe.

    A good example that still sticks to my mind is this one from "Octopussy":

    As a kid, I grew up on a farm near the German border. So at first we could only receive the three Dutch public broadcasters and the three German public broadcasters (ARD, ZDF and NDR/WDR). ARD was broadcasting a lot of Bond films at that time (between 1990 and 1999, strict, around 8:15 PM after the "Tagesschau" News").

    One of the Bond films got broadcasted then, "Octopussy". And when watching the PTS, I saw Roger Moore in that little airjet, escaping that Cuban heatseeking missile. After Bond destroys the missile together with an entire Cuban military airbase, Bond sees the red light flickering, which means soon the fuel runs out.

    Upon watching the instruments, he says in German: "Aah, Ich muß mal tanken!" It actually sounds quite funny.

    BUT, here it comes. Years later, when I watched the original version, there was no English line to be heard at all! The little moves of Moore's mouth did not utter ANY spoken word. The "Dzjermans" made it up! They ADDED that line. Although funny while I was young, I find it really disrespectful towards the original acting profession.

    We all know how Gert Frobe was dubbed, and he was basically babbling like a little baby through his movies. And then they added spoken words to his babbling. So in essence....there's no distinction between actors really being professional, learning their languages, and learning the screenplay by heart on one hand AND "baby babblers" on the other hand.


    For me, as a Dutchman, dubbing is an absolute NO-GO. Period. It evokes laziness. It is a remnant of the old days, when education at schools was still rather bad, and when young kiddo's didn't learn foreign languages. And therefore again my question: Are there any pro-original-version protest groups in your country? Openly asking for the abolishment of dubbing? Basically facilitating better knowledge of one's foreign language?
  • Loved the trailer. Very smart to keep it simple and devoid of action. It's a brave move to do so in such an action orientated movie. The dialogue was killer. Especially Mr.White.
    I want to keep out of your SPECTRE pages from now on to avoid spoiling too much of this movie.
    Does anyone know when the next trailer is scheduled for release?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Mr White is going blind from masturbating too much in that remote cottage, hence why they call him Mr White.
  • SkyfallCraigSkyfallCraig Rome, Italy
    Posts: 630
    Mr White is going blind from masturbating too much in that remote cottage, hence why they call him Mr White.
    Ahahahahaahahaah genius!

  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Mr White is going blind from masturbating too much in that remote cottage, hence why they call him Mr White.

    I now have a vision of Bond nervously stalking his way through the cabin, stumbling upon a growing number of randomly discarded empty Kleenex boxes.

  • Posts: 1,068
    So that's why Bond treads in trepidation?
  • AVBAVB
    Posts: 97
    I am curious as to whether Bond actually kills White himself(and if so, for what exact reason since he appears inactive), or if he leaves it to Spectre...
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    RC7 wrote: »
    Mr White is going blind from masturbating too much in that remote cottage, hence why they call him Mr White.

    I now have a vision of Bond nervously stalking his way through the cabin, stumbling upon a growing number of randomly discarded empty Kleenex boxes.
    andmcit wrote: »
    So that's why Bond treads in trepidation?

    :)) We shall know, come November.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    RC7 wrote: »
    Mr White is going blind from masturbating too much in that remote cottage, hence why they call him Mr White.

    I now have a vision of Bond nervously stalking his way through the cabin, stumbling upon a growing number of randomly discarded empty Kleenex boxes.
    andmcit wrote: »
    So that's why Bond treads in trepidation?

    :)) We shall know, come November.

    Boom.
  • edited March 2015 Posts: 11,119
    RC7 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Mr White is going blind from masturbating too much in that remote cottage, hence why they call him Mr White.

    I now have a vision of Bond nervously stalking his way through the cabin, stumbling upon a growing number of randomly discarded empty Kleenex boxes.
    andmcit wrote: »
    So that's why Bond treads in trepidation?

    :)) We shall know, come November.

    Boom.

    "You're a kite dancing in a hurricane....Mr Bond. Now let the kite get fully "erect" in front of me. Perhaps I can "blow" it into my desired path....Mr Bond!"

    =))
  • ThomasCrown76ThomasCrown76 Augusta, ks
    Posts: 757
    You've shot your wad, mr white. Now it's my turn
  • For me, as a Dutchman, dubbing is an absolute NO-GO. Period. It evokes laziness. It is a remnant of the old days, when education at schools was still rather bad, and when young kiddo's didn't learn foreign languages. And therefore again my question: Are there any pro-original-version protest groups in your country? Openly asking for the abolishment of dubbing? Basically facilitating better knowledge of one's foreign language?

    No there are not.

    In the US the audiences won't watch dubbed foreign movies (they remake them instead) and I don't feel it has anything to do with a wish to learn other people's language.

    How many Dutch movies are released every year ? I found on the Internet that there is about 15 Dutch movies every year. Well, more than 300 French movies are released every year, I feel this is also a big part of the equation.

    Also don't forget that in Hollywood the movies are made with a very clear English compared to the true English that is spoken by other people. This is some international English that is very simple.
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