SPECTRE Trailer/TV Spot Thread - NEW TV Spots Page 117 - Final Trailer Page 106

13233353738119

Comments

  • Posts: 5,767
    Jan1985 wrote: »
    maxcraig wrote: »
    Jan1985 wrote: »
    Really. parachute? Is there no way you can see a film with just one set of subtitles? Poor Switzerland with their four languages if that is the case.

    In Germany, France and Italy the movie will be dubbed, not subtitled.
    So in Switzerland they will watch either the german version or the french or the italien, depending in what part of the country they are.
    In France you can choose to see the movies dubbed or subtitles. Both options are available in cinemas.

    In Germany you can choose, too. At least here in Hamburg, there are cinemas showing the dubbed version, one or two cinemas showing the subtitled version and one or two cinemas showing the original version without subtitles.

    Germany is the biggest dubbing-market in the world. Since the invention of talking pictures movies are dubbed in Germany. Every movie star from overseas has his own famous german voice actor. Everyone in Germany knows the german voice of Tom Hanks, but almost no one know how Tom Hanks' real voice sounds.
    But believe me, dubbing actors are really good actors. They don't harm the actors original voice performance.

    Sometimes the dubbed version is way better than the original. George Lazenby had the same voice in Germany as Sean Connery. So Lazenby sounded as cool as Connery as Bond.
    I am German too, and I dislike a lot of the dubbed versions. Luckily, the Bond films are all amazingly well dubbed, but a lot of other films are quite ruined by it.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I am dubbed too on this community. Do not speak a word English.
  • edited March 2015 Posts: 2,015
    Ah, that's why there are so many jokes that don't really work :)
  • Posts: 2,081
    I am dubbed too on this community. Do not speak a word English.

    =))
  • Posts: 6,601
    Dubbe-di-dubbe-di-dub :P
  • Posts: 625
    Are there any pro-original-version protest groups in your country? Openly asking for the abolishment of dubbing? Basically facilitating better knowledge of one's foreign language?

    No, because there are theatres that show the original language version. So you can choose which one you want to see.

    And by the way: if dubbing would be forbidden, then every not-german-language-movie would flop really bad, because 99% of the people would never go and watch a movie not in their own language.

    The movie studios would never allow to forbid dubbing.

    Even people that know english or french or whatever language very well would go and see the dubbed version, because they love their dubbing-actors. It's their great voices they love.
    For exemple: Bruce Willis has a really cool voice in Germany, whereas his real voice is really lame and nothing special. But in german he sounds badass. People love that. And dubbing-actor's voices are sometimes the reason why some "old" movie stars are still big in Germany while they are not A-listers anymore in America or England.

    And some TV-shows even were bigger in Germany than in their original country, BECAUSE of the dubbing.
    "The Persuaders" with Roger Moore and Tony Curtis are CULT in Germany, because of it's great dialogue. Many Germans don't understand why it was cancelled after two seasons.
    Yes, the german dubbing-script is not a 1:1 translation of the original spoken words. It was way better and had way more charme and wit. That's why this TV series was nowhere as succesful as in Germany.
  • edited March 2015 Posts: 1,661
    Okay, playing devil's advocate here so don't shoot me down but here goes...

    If Bond and Blofeld are brothers - and this is shown in SPECTRE - couldn't you argue this is Eon/Sony showing major disrespect to Ian Fleming. He never mentioned Bond and Blofeld were related and if that is what happens in SPECTRE I think you could argue that this is a disrespectful reinvention of Bond's childhood and Blofeld's.

    I fear SPECTRE may be completely reinventing the character of James Bond. And not in a good nor respectful way. Barbara and MG did not buy the rights to James Bond - they inherited them. Pure chance, you could argue. Is it right they should do what they like with Bond just because they were born into the Bond film family?
  • Posts: 1,407
    @fanbond123

    IF that is the case, I have no doubt that Mendes and everybody will make it work in a way that would make Fleming happy. I just don't see anybody on that team doing anything to disrespect him in such a way.
  • Posts: 4,619
    Cinema is art, and altering films in any way is disrespectful towards the people who created them. Obviously, people sometimes want to watch a movie made in a language they do not understand. Which means the movie has to be altered, so that they can understand it. The two options: subtitles and dubbing.

    The question is: which option is more intrusive, which one alters the original movie more? The answer obviously is dubbing. This is why subtitles will ALWAYS be the better choice.

    A personal example: I dislike dubbing. Since I speak English, I always watch English language films in their original language, and without subtitles. When I watch a movie made in a language I do not speak, I always opt for subtitles. The only movie I LOVE watching dubbed is Pulp Fiction. Still, I know that the original audio track is the superior version, simply because that is what reflects the intentions the filmmaker had when making the movie.
  • Seven_Point_Six_FiveSeven_Point_Six_Five Southern California
    edited March 2015 Posts: 1,257
    AVB wrote: »
    I am curious as to whether Bond actually kills White himself(and if so, for what exact reason since he appears inactive), or if he leaves it to Spectre...

    Well he's really the face of Quantum, as far as I'm concerned. And Quantum is (at very least) indirectly responsible for Vesper's death, so I'd say he has a reason to put a bullet in White's head.

    Or as you suggested, Bond could give him the Dominic Greene treatment and let death find him.
  • edited March 2015 Posts: 2,015
    Jan1985 wrote: »
    "The Persuaders" with Roger Moore and Tony Curtis are CULT in Germany, because of it's great dialogue. Many Germans don't understand why it was cancelled after two seasons.
    Yes, the german dubbing-script is not a 1:1 translation of the original spoken words. It was way better and had way more charme and wit. That's why this TV series was nowhere as succesful as in Germany.

    Very, very successful and cult in France too, and also with quite some "creative dubbing" here. I'm not sure why The Persuaders was "adapted" so much, compared to a mere word-by-word translation : maybe because the US vs UK angle of the original show simply cannot be translated...

    Bond related trivia : "The Persuaders" was translated into "Amicalement Vôtre" (Friendly Yours). When they had to translate "AVTAK", they chose "Dangereusement Vôtre" (Dangerously Yours). I don't know how it sounds in English, but in France it sounds really cool.

    More generally, It's funny that people care so much for the actors but does not care about the DoP work : these ugly lines of white text in a frame that a whole crew spent weeks making can be quite a problem ! I wonder how many people have seen a 3D movie with subtitles for instance. The text has to float somewhere to avoid collision with the 3D, it's very distracting.
  • Posts: 4,622
    Mr White is going blind from masturbating too much info that remote cottage, hence why they call him Mr White.
    Ahahahahaahahaah genius!


    He's on a roll! :))
  • Posts: 33
    Has anyone got (or created) any HQ stills from the teaser?

    I'd appreciate any help, thanks.
  • edited March 2015 Posts: 5,767
    fanbond123 wrote: »
    Okay, playing devil's advocate here so don't shoot me down but here goes...

    If Bond and Blofeld are brothers - and this is shown in SPECTRE -
    Where?
    fanbond123 wrote: »
    couldn't you argue this is Eon/Sony showing major disrespect to Ian Fleming. He never mentioned Bond and Blofeld were related and if that is what happens in SPECTRE I think you could argue that this is a disrespectful reinvention of Bond's childhood and Blofeld's.

    I fear SPECTRE may be completely reinventing the character of James Bond. And not in a good nor respectful way. Barbara and MG did not buy the rights to James Bond - they inherited them. Pure chance, you could argue. Is it right they should do what they like with Bond just because they were born into the Bond film family?
    Respectful or not, that would be lowest soap opera level. I can´t believe it´s going to be like that. A personal connection, ok, that can make sense, in order to have a mirrored dark side. But brothers?




    I wonder how many people have seen a 3D movie with subtitles for instance. The text has to float somewhere to avoid collision with the 3D, it's very distracting.
    I know a very easy solution for that: chuck the 3D :-)!



    Ok, I admit that I French movies dubbed, and not subtitled. But that´s mostly laziness. Asian movies can make really more sense with subtitles. Except Chinese ones, which are dubbed in any case, because usually half the cast speaks Mandarin, and the other half Cantonese ;-).



  • Posts: 15,105
    I don't see anywhere any blood connection between Bond and Blofeld. Certainly not in the teaser. All we know is that a man named Franz Oberhauser claims to know him.
  • SkyfallCraigSkyfallCraig Rome, Italy
    Posts: 630
    fanbond123 wrote: »
    Okay, playing devil's advocate here so don't shoot me down but here goes...

    If Bond and Blofeld are brothers - and this is shown in SPECTRE - couldn't you argue this is Eon/Sony showing major disrespect to Ian Fleming. He never mentioned Bond and Blofeld were related and if that is what happens in SPECTRE I think you could argue that this is a disrespectful reinvention of Bond's childhood and Blofeld's.

    I fear SPECTRE may be completely reinventing the character of James Bond. And not in a good nor respectful way. Barbara and MG did not buy the rights to James Bond - they inherited them. Pure chance, you could argue. Is it right they should do what they like with Bond just because they were born into the Bond film family?

    So considering Quantum and Silva were not part of Fleming's Bond, CR, QoS and SF are disrespectful?
    No, I don't think so
  • Posts: 11,119
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I don't see anywhere any blood connection between Bond and Blofeld. Certainly not in the teaser. All we know is that a man named Franz Oberhauser claims to know him.

    As far as I see it, "Franz Oberhauser" and James Bond were merely childhood friends, who share one common link: their dads, Andrew Bond and Hannes Oberhauser.

    By the way, we don't know exactly for sure if the tall man on the picture is Hannes Oberhauser or Andrew Bond no? Yes, it's highly likely it is Hannes Oberhauser, but still.


    Regarding the complaints about "re-writing" parts of the factual written information that Ian Fleming left us: I find those complaints rather stupid.

    What the Bond producers and the directors did ever since "Casino Royale", was going back to Ian Fleming's material. And obviously, when "SPECTRE" went into pre-production, the whole team -Barbara, Michael, Sam, Daniel- did extensively re-read at least a few novels. Most likely "Octopussy" and "Thunderball", to get fully informed about the Oberhausers, Blofeld and S.P.E.C.T.R.E..

    I fully admire that. And I especially admire the fact that they use these facts to slightly update it with new material. Is it dishonest to Fleming's legacy? Off course not. It's admirable AND immensely creative that they make new connections that basically follow Fleming's original storylines, without changing them at all. They are entirely new connections that Fleming did not write about. I call it: Lending the late Fleming a helping hand to continue and expand his universe, his legacy, his continuity.

    I would be more dissatisfied and unhappy, IF the producers and the writing staff really turn Blofeld into a blood brother of Bond. THEN you're falsifying Fleming's original stories. That is something I dislike.

    Also, there were days when Bond producers came up with completely new storylines WITHOUT referencing any of Fleming's stories. I can think of "AVTAK". Now look how that movie turned out. It's admirable to come up with something completely new, but it's also my feeling that when Bond producers do that, they start making creative mistakes. They start to think in terms of elements. "Now that part needs to be in the film" or "Let's look at Goldfinger, because this part is not in there". I usually find that a flawed approach.

    The best way to make a near-perfect Bond-film, is to always go back to Fleming's work. Even "LTK" (Milton Krest, "The Hildebrand Rarity") and "SF" (Bond's family, "You Only Live Twice") had these references. And IMO they worked. Barbara Broccoli, Michael Wilson, Sam Mendes and Daniel Craig have shown us consistently that they are as nerdy and geeky as us fans, by constantly re-reading Fleming's work, and perhaps even extend his work with new plots and twists, without destroying the original Fleming storyline.

    I love that approach.

    And in return?? We're completely spoiled by a wonderful sense of continuity during this Craig-era. Something that Fleming already took into account in his own novels, but that at the time, the 1960's, could not be taken into account due to issues related to finance and scale of production.
  • Posts: 15,105
    I think that in the 60s and after people were happy to have cinematic heroes with no past or background. When people meet an old friend, it is as plot requires, nothing more. Same with the villains. Now with superhero movies, among others, audiences expect the exact opposite.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Agreed. More complex narratives and motivations are demanded now of both heroes and villains.

    Whether we can go back to the simpler stories remains to be seen (I personally doubt it).

    It's possible that television has contributed to this (there are some excellent tv shows that run story lines through multiple seasons in more depth and with very high production qualities).

    It's possible that 911 has contributed to this as well (i.e. there has to be a more in depth/personal reason for why people would commit dastardly acts/villainy now on film since reality has become more frightening/insecure for the general public)
  • Don't know if this has been brought up before in this thread - but does anyone think that the adult in the photograph in the trailer looks a bit like a younger Mr White??? or am i just seeing things!
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    You are just seeing things.
  • Birdleson wrote: »
    Cinema is art, and altering films in any way is disrespectful towards the people who created them.

    That's all that need be said.

    Then no dubbing to respect the actors and no subtitles to respect the DoP, ok. But sometimes you want to see foreign films in languages you don't understand. And even when you think you understand English, when you come across a movie where people talk something else than Hollywood English...
  • Posts: 15,105
    Don't know if this has been brought up before in this thread - but does anyone think that the adult in the photograph in the trailer looks a bit like a younger Mr White??? or am i just seeing things!

    I was actually wondering the same thing. White is such a generic name it could be an alias. Although Christensen is only marginally older than Waltz. He'd be a bit young to be his father, adopted or not.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    It makes no sense whatsoever.
  • Ludovico wrote: »
    Don't know if this has been brought up before in this thread - but does anyone think that the adult in the photograph in the trailer looks a bit like a younger Mr White??? or am i just seeing things!

    I was actually wondering the same thing. White is such a generic name it could be an alias. Although Christensen is only marginally older than Waltz. He'd be a bit young to be his father, adopted or not.

    Glad I am not the only one seeing this...

  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    Actually the man in the photo looks like Colin Firth to me... :-/
  • Posts: 669
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I don't see anywhere any blood connection between Bond and Blofeld. Certainly not in the teaser. All we know is that a man named Franz Oberhauser claims to know him.

    As far as I see it, "Franz Oberhauser" and James Bond were merely childhood friends, who share one common link: their dads, Andrew Bond and Hannes Oberhauser.

    By the way, we don't know exactly for sure if the tall man on the picture is Hannes Oberhauser or Andrew Bond no? Yes, it's highly likely it is Hannes Oberhauser, but still.


    Regarding the complaints about "re-writing" parts of the factual written information that Ian Fleming left us: I find those complaints rather stupid.

    What the Bond producers and the directors did ever since "Casino Royale", was going back to Ian Fleming's material. And obviously, when "SPECTRE" went into pre-production, the whole team -Barbara, Michael, Sam, Daniel- did extensively re-read at least a few novels. Most likely "Octopussy" and "Thunderball", to get fully informed about the Oberhausers, Blofeld and S.P.E.C.T.R.E..

    I fully admire that. And I especially admire the fact that they use these facts to slightly update it with new material. Is it dishonest to Fleming's legacy? Off course not. It's admirable AND immensely creative that they make new connections that basically follow Fleming's original storylines, without changing them at all. They are entirely new connections that Fleming did not write about. I call it: Lending the late Fleming a helping hand to continue and expand his universe, his legacy, his continuity.

    I would be more dissatisfied and unhappy, IF the producers and the writing staff really turn Blofeld into a blood brother of Bond. THEN you're falsifying Fleming's original stories. That is something I dislike.

    Also, there were days when Bond producers came up with completely new storylines WITHOUT referencing any of Fleming's stories. I can think of "AVTAK". Now look how that movie turned out. It's admirable to come up with something completely new, but it's also my feeling that when Bond producers do that, they start making creative mistakes. They start to think in terms of elements. "Now that part needs to be in the film" or "Let's look at Goldfinger, because this part is not in there". I usually find that a flawed approach.

    The best way to make a near-perfect Bond-film, is to always go back to Fleming's work. Even "LTK" (Milton Krest, "The Hildebrand Rarity") and "SF" (Bond's family, "You Only Live Twice") had these references. And IMO they worked. Barbara Broccoli, Michael Wilson, Sam Mendes and Daniel Craig have shown us consistently that they are as nerdy and geeky as us fans, by constantly re-reading Fleming's work, and perhaps even extend his work with new plots and twists, without destroying the original Fleming storyline.

    I love that approach.

    And in return?? We're completely spoiled by a wonderful sense of continuity during this Craig-era. Something that Fleming already took into account in his own novels, but that at the time, the 1960's, could not be taken into account due to issues related to finance and scale of production.

    Just want to say: Hear, hear! I love this post and agree with every word. I think we're in very good hands with the current team, including Daniel Craig, who seems to take Fleming's work as seriously as any actor ever has (including Dalton, who felt a true obligation to do Fleming proud, which he did IMO).

  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    edited March 2015 Posts: 1,261
    roko wrote: »
    antovolk wrote: »
    I think this is Waltz dubbing himself in the German version, right?

    I'm not sure he does, actually. His lines sound very monotonous here, and I somehow doubt that he would deliver them so well in English and not be able to make them equally chilling in German, his native tongue. What do the other German speakers around here think?

    To me, this sounds like Waltz'voice, i.e. IMO it is his own voice. I watched a lot of the German films, series the last 30 years, etc. starring Waltz, and this surely is him. As for the lacking German accent: Waltz lived in Londo for many years and resided now in LA. But I see what you mean, but then, do Pleasance, Savalas and Gray have a German accent? This might have gone in all this years.
    And in the German version of the trailer, Waltz speaks also with a monotonous voice.
  • Posts: 15,105
    It is Waltz's voice all right. And I find it perfect: monotonous, creepy, menacing.

    Oh and let's not forget Blofeld is Polish.
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    edited March 2015 Posts: 1,261
    [quote="Gustav_Graves;439179"
    One of the Bond films got broadcasted then, "Octopussy". And when watching the PTS, I saw Roger Moore in that little airjet, escaping that Cuban heatseeking missile. After Bond destroys the missile together with an entire Cuban military airbase, Bond sees the red light flickering, which means soon the fuel runs out.

    Upon watching the instruments, he says in German: "Aah, Ich muß mal tanken!" It actually sounds quite funny.

    BUT, here it comes. Years later, when I watched the original version, there was no English line to be heard at all! The little moves of Moore's mouth did not utter ANY spoken word. The "Dzjermans" made it up! They ADDED that line. Although funny while I was young, I find it really disrespectful towards the original acting profession.

    [/quote]

    Personally I prefer the undubbed versions of movies, but do not oppose to dubbed versions. 20 years ago it was difficult to find a movie theatre in smaller German cities, only in the bigger cities like Berlin, Frankfurt, Hamburg, Munich, etc. they showed the movies undubbed. Around here (Greater Stuttgart Area), there was and there is a movie theatre, which shows the undubbed versions. The reason was, that there was a big US army base, so they new they would attract those people. Nowadays, more and more movie theatres do show the original versions, not every day, but three times a week, usually the 6pm shows, especially in cities with an university like at my place.
    Sometimes the German dubbings can be bad, as the example of Gustav_Graves proves. They did this in OHMSS when Bond is "talking" to the Saint Bernard's dog, or in DAF, in Bond's fight with Bambi and Thumper, inventing two lines, when we actually see Bond is not speaking.
    ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST maybe is the most extreme example. The German title is SPIEL MIR DAS LIED VOM TOD ("Play to me the song of death" or so), and the best thing is, nobody in the English version ever says this phrase. In the dubbed version, Henry Fonda says this line, when he pushes the harmonica in the boy's mouth. In English he says "Make your loving brother happy!" And in the German version, audience might believe, that the man on the boy's shoulders may not be his brother, but his father.
    This said, usually German dubbing versions are done very well mostly. The actor lending Robert De Niro's his voice, is mostly known for this job and earns a living dubbing De Niros, Keitel, etc. and also by doing audio books and readings in literature.
    And, of course, as other users pointed out above, there is the German version of THE PERSUADERS, although a lot of the lines do not have much resemblance with what the actors actually did say
Sign In or Register to comment.