'The Spectator' Article - The Heckler: Why it's time to kill off James Bond

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Comments

  • Posts: 5,767
    smitty wrote: »
    Though I like Craig's Bond, I agree with the posters who note that Craig has taken Bond to far over to the dark side. It's ironic because Craig is said to have a great sense of humor, is always joking on the set, yadda yadda. I hope the SP script lets him lighten up in some scenes, and show his dry wit more and Bond's all but vanished charming side, but I'm not counting on it. They've swung to wide to the dark and glum side and I think that is where a lot of the criticism stems from, even from those of us who think Craig is a good Bond. For me, SP badly needs more balance but I thing Craig , Logan and Mendes want DRAMA and EON is so obsessed with making another 1Billion film, they won't challenge their view of Bond.
    Not that I´m a huge fan of all that DRAMA, especially if it taps into soap opera areas. But does the DRAMA or my opinion about it harm the franchise?

    suavejmf wrote: »
    Craig's Bond is fairly faithful to Fleming in style and humour.
    So was Dalton´s Bond, and even more so. But Fleming´s Bond not necessarily always translates easily onto the screen. Fleming himself said so and was happy that Broccoli and Salzman made the films as they did.

  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Fleming only got to see the brilliant first two. If he saw DAF I bet he would be pissed!
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,263
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Fleming only got to see the brilliant first two. If he saw DAF I bet he would be pissed!

    I'm surely he merely spun around wildly in his grave instead.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    What happen when he viewed DAF from the afterlife!!!! Robocop suit and all.....
  • Posts: 5,767
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Fleming only got to see the brilliant first two. If he saw DAF I bet he would be pissed!
    That doesn´t change the fact that cinematic Bond had some huge differences from literary Bond, in terms of tone and humor.

  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,263
    suavejmf wrote: »
    What happen when he viewed DAF from the afterlife!!!! Robocop suit and all.....

    No doubt he would have thought DAD was a DUD as well as a waste of a good novel of his - MR!
  • edited April 2015 Posts: 12,526
    Have not even bothered to read the article as we had something similar all those years ago when Brosnan returned with Bond in the 1990's, and some said the cold war is over why do we need Bond?

    Well let us take a look around the world today, blindingly obvious that we need some escapism more than ever with continuous state of uncertainty in the Middle East, the global IS threat, and not to forget Putin trying to take us back to a kind of Cold War throwback with the situation in Ukraine.
  • Ludovico wrote: »
    And I am a bit of a Fleming purist myself and I am all for a James Bond who is no longer a superspy. I don't think he was in the very early Connery either, not in DN or FRWL. Competent yes, skilled absolutely, the best at what he does even, but that does not make him a superspy. He should not be infallible, should not be a know it all and he should not be some kind of invincible, gadget-clad fop.

    It works for GF too... In it, the DB5 has an iconic scene, but in the end he cannot escape because he can't kill an old lady with a machinegun, and he gets caught because he's fooled by a mirror. You've got gadgets galore that works fine, and yet he fails. Pure genius, IMO. After that, the gadgets seemed to always be some deux ex machina. You rarely saw Bond trying a gadget that didn't work (LALD crocodile scene for instance). Moore could play the superspy that way, all the others had quite some problem.

    LTK used Bond-OTT in a meta manner (when Sanchez can't believe how Bond escaped), and this is in a John Glen movie, which are supposed to be very superficial and straightforward... It's hard to handle Bond-OTT.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    andmcit wrote: »
    th
    Getafix wrote: »
    Hmm. I like Craig but he comes as across as a bit joyless sometimes. Would be nice to see him enjoying some of the finer things in life - his food, drink, women. Plumber is a cheap dig but I think I get where this is coming from. If Bond is only a tough go doing a dirty job then what's to like? He's just another assassin/workman. Isn't Bond more than that ?

    I know people idolise the Fleming Bond, but even he sought diversion is luxury and the passing consolation of the worlds finest pleasures. EON took that a step further in Dr No and made Bond himself suave and a super spy as well. Still not sure where DC's Bond sits on the sliding scale.


    I agree with this totally - i can't really believe Craig's Bond could actually have the guile or finesse to successfully seduce a fabulous and unavailable woman or be convincing with knowledge of art, food or wine the way I could with the older Bonds of RM, TD or PB - jury is out for me with SC.

    Craig's Bond is too much a hard man who's a shade too crude and direct. A sledgehammer to crack a nut relying on his machismo wearing the token suit (not very well IMHO)- it was uncomfortable watching him practically rape Severine in the shower with no by or leave preamble unless the chat in the casino was actually the come on from her?

    Mix in the angst and bloodied aspect of the deeper characterisation and baggage of a hidden past history and it's all very contradictory and sending off all kinds of ideas and signals.

    I don't dislike Craig's Bond and am really excited to see SP but just want to see him play it straight with a bit more thinking as a top spy as well as the rippling of muscles, gnashing of teeth and pouring of bloodied wounds.

    What film were you were you watching, rape her in the shower?

    This is utter bollocks, I've heard this comment about SF to the point of wondering at what point is this against her will? She all but asks him to come to her rescue and the attraction is evident from the moment they meet.

    This sequence is nowhere as questionable as SC Bond in the stable with Pussy Galore. Now there is no question he forces himself on her. but hey it's King Connery the man who said some women just deserve a good slap now and then, we call Craig's Bond a thug, well maybe in the films but at least he doesn't it play it out in real life.

    This article is totally pointless, that's right lets put out to pasture a series of films that after 50 years is still going strong and has hit the billion dollar mark recently and it's follow up is one of the most anticipated films of 2015.

    What smug self satisfied pile of horse shite are these journalists writing and getting paid for these days?
  • Posts: 1,596
    boldfinger wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Fleming only got to see the brilliant first two. If he saw DAF I bet he would be pissed!
    That doesn´t change the fact that cinematic Bond had some huge differences from literary Bond, in terms of tone and humor.

    Well said.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    Have not even bothered to read the article
    Let me sum it up for you. Bond is now a sociopath and a crybaby, and he shags guys.

  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,263
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    Have not even bothered to read the article
    Let me sum it up for you. Bond is now a sociopath and a crybaby, and he shags guys.

    A fair enough summary! :))
  • Jazz007Jazz007 Minnesota
    edited April 2015 Posts: 257
    This article proves how irritating many Bond fans can be. Despite what the author tries to say, the issue here doesn't actually seem to be about how the Craig-era has supposedly perverted the series from how it used to be and is more about a common Bond fanboy trap: tearing down the movies you personally don't like to build up the ones you do.

    "The writing team cannot touch real-world issues in espionage for fear of losing tax breaks, offending worldwide audiences, or failing to appeal to a key demographic."

    By that logic, the very existence of SPECTRE as a main adversary, instead of the USSR or China, would prove the same of the early Bond period. I mean, honestly: why did Fleming sell out? The cover of From Russia With Love should have been Bond punching Khrushchev in the face!

    "Despite the current tensions between Russia and the West, we can expect to see Bond praising the fine people of Mexico..."

    Right, because FRWL didn't exaggerate the splendors of Turkey or TLD that of Afghanistan! The Bond films have always taken Bond down the prettiest alleys in developing nations. There are some slums in Brazil and India; the fact that MR and OP didn't show us any doesn't mean the series had taken a dive.


    There's a good reason the post was published by "the Heckler": when do hecklers ever win? Never. The comics always put them to shame (unless your Michael Richards). I guess he can heckle all he wants - I'll be enjoying the show this November.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Jazz007 wrote: »
    This article proves how irritating many Bond fans can be. Despite what the author tries to say, the issue here doesn't actually seem to be about how the Craig-era is supposedly perverted the series from how it used to be and is more about a common Bond fanboy trap: tearing down the movies you personally don't like to build up the ones you do.

    "The writing team cannot touch real-world issues in espionage for fear of losing tax breaks, offending worldwide audiences, or failing to appeal to a key demographic."

    By that logic, the very existence of SPECTRE as a main adversary, instead of the USSR or China, would prove the same of the early Bond period. I mean, honestly: why did Fleming sell out? The cover of From Russia With Love should have been Bond punching Khrushchev in the face!

    "Despite the current tensions between Russia and the West, we can expect to see Bond praising the fine people of Mexico..."

    Right, because FRWL didn't exaggerated the splendors of Turkey or TLD that of Afghanistan! The Bond films have always taken Bond down the prettiest allies in developing nations. There are some slums in Brazil and India; the fact that MR and OP didn't show us any doesn't mean the series had taken a dive.


    There's a good reason the post was published by "the Heckler": when do hecklers ever win? Never. The comics always put them to shame (unless your Michael Richards). I guess he can heckle all he wants - I'll be enjoying the show this November.

    Well put. I think the article has to be read in the context you highlight. And not taken tooo seriously. It's designed to p*** off and provoke, in which it seems to have succeeded reasonably well.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,263
    It certainly has succeeded in creating a debate. This is one of my best threads in a long time! I had so many Notifications I didn't know where to look! :))
  • Posts: 1,971
    Number of dollars I've spent on Bond books, films, and videos over the years? Hundreds, maybe more. Number of pennies I've spent on The Spectator? Zero.




  • ggl007ggl007 www.archivo007.com Spain, España
    Posts: 2,541
    This reminds me a very interesting documentarty: The People vs. George Lucas.

    In it, there's a part where we listen to fans talking about the new trilogy and an interesting view is how we can read that as
    "now that everybody loves my object of love, I have to hate it to feel well or to feel different",
    "that's not my real love, my real love was the old ones",
    "this has nothing to do with the real ones, even if the creator is the same",
    "I know more about that, even more than him"...


    Maybe, there's something psychological there, about loving our youth and the moment we love these movies, and being unable to enjoy the new ones which are being loved by thousands of people everywhere...
  • Posts: 11,425
    Think you might have a PhD thesis right there
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,263
    Getafix wrote: »
    Think you might have a PhD thesis right there

    Indeed, very impressive @ggl007!
  • ggl007ggl007 www.archivo007.com Spain, España
    Posts: 2,541
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    Think you might have a PhD thesis right there

    Indeed, very impressive @ggl007!
    Thanks, as I said it was suggested in that interesting documentary...

    It is obvious that anyone can like or dislike Daniel Craig, but when we have seen that, even before CR!, there was a movement of craignotbondians, I found that quite remarkable...
  • ggl007 wrote: »
    "now that everybody loves my object of love, I have to hate it to feel well or to feel different",

    How can this apply to Star Wars ? It was big success from the beginning, and after that first trilogy, contrary to Bond, the SW Franchise still waits for his TSWLM or CR..

    Now imagine EON toyed with the early Bonds, putting some CG so that the chase in DN looks less dated, how would you feel ? You don't need to have seen DN in the theater to fid this weird, no ?
  • Posts: 15,105
    ggl007 wrote: »
    "now that everybody loves my object of love, I have to hate it to feel well or to feel different",

    How can this apply to Star Wars ? It was big success from the beginning, and after that first trilogy, contrary to Bond, the SW Franchise still waits for his TSWLM or CR..

    Now imagine EON toyed with the early Bonds, putting some CG so that the chase in DN looks less dated, how would you feel ? You don't need to have seen DN in the theater to fid this weird, no ?

    Indeed here are legitimate reasons why people were disappointed in the new trilogy and Lucas' tampering of the original one.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    In a way, The Ultimate Editions of the first Seven Bond movie all had little things added to them. A lot of new sound effects were added. Mostly gun shot sound effects but some more noticeable additions was a little beep sound effect added to the Safe cracking device in YOLT. And a Star Wars laser sound added to Blofeld's laser in DAD.
  • Posts: 15,105
    They didn't have Professor Dent fire a seventh's shot though.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Ludovico wrote: »
    They didn't have Professor Dent fire a seventh's shot though.
    Bond Shot First! =))

  • Murdock wrote: »
    In a way, The Ultimate Editions of the first Seven Bond movie all had little things added to them. A lot of new sound effects were added. Mostly gun shot sound effects but some more noticeable additions was a little beep sound effect added to the Safe cracking device in YOLT. And a Star Wars laser sound added to Blofeld's laser in DAD.

    Don't talk about this in the dubbing thread :)
  • AVBAVB
    edited April 2015 Posts: 97
    I'd prefer that suave agent to the current bisexual emo agent.

    Hahahahahahahaha. Oh mercy.

    On a serious note, the article is drivel. However, whenever people criticise Man of Steel, Star Wars NT, Indiana Jones and TKOTCS, or any remake of a film from their childhood, they are essentially saying; 'This is not like the film(s) I was raised on, therefore it's wrong'.

    I hear that all the time. People can't get over themselves long enough to realise films aren't made to satisfy their boring little nostalgia trips. It's pathetic to read grown adults say shit like,'Bond is all about gadgets, cars, shooting bad guys and shagging Women'.
  • edited April 2015 Posts: 2,015
    AVB wrote: »
    People can't get over themselves long enough to realise films aren't made to satisfy their boring little nostalgia trips.

    What about the DB5 in Skyfall ? It's a bit harsh to say this was pathetic gastroenterological stuff. And I hope you're not too worried by SPECTRE, the other big Bond concept from 50 years ago.

  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    boldfinger wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Fleming only got to see the brilliant first two. If he saw DAF I bet he would be pissed!
    That doesn´t change the fact that cinematic Bond had some huge differences from literary Bond, in terms of tone and humor.

    After the first 4 yes, true.
  • Posts: 1,971
    Cut through all the BS and here's what really matters. A Bond audiences can identify with and a story that is well-written and compelling.
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