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SPECTRE and HYDRA - The public consciousness

JCRendleJCRendle
in Bond Movies Posts: 1,552
In numerous article comments, Youtube comments, social media etc. in relation to the SPECTRE announcement poster and teaser trailer, I have seen people making comments like "Hail HYDRA!", "Did Bond steal HYDRA's logo?", "They're just copying Marvel" etc.

I does annoy me, somewhat, that people out there think that Fleming, or the movie makers somehow stole the idea from Marvel comics. They see the SPECTRE logo and say that was stolen or copied - but history does not back this up at all.

SPECTRE debuted in March 1961 in Thunderball, it was first seen on screen in 1962 in Dr. No. Hydra was first seen in August 1965 in a comic book called Strange Tales #135.
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Comments

  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    I saw that too. Especially on IMDB-forums. In the end, we know better ;-). "They" need to be educated off course. It's as simple as that.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited April 2015 Posts: 10,591
    @Gustav_Graves how on Earth could you stay on IMDB with all those spoliers?
    Anyway, I do agree that all this Hydra nonsense is bogus. People should do their research before they accuse EON of copying Marvel.
  • MadeleineSwannMadeleineSwann
    Posts: 591
    It's like Skyfall "copying" The Dark Knight all over again.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    It's the sad part of comic book movies being so popular.
  • komododragonBkomododragonB
    Posts: 48
    Here's the ironic twist, and I'm a fan of Marvel but the writers possibly Stan lee himself have said that HYDRA was indeed inspired by SPECTRE from the Bond films. Baron Von Strucker = Ernst Stavro Blofeld. Even Von Strucker's "demise", falling into a reactor is straight out of Dr. No and it should be noted that the Strange Tales story was also the first of Nick Fury agent of Shield run and he was basically Marvel's equivalent of James Bond and the writers never denied that. Either way whatever anyone says, Truth is the truth.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,116
    That's inevitable, sadly, people having such a short memory, everything turns into mumbo jumbo. On the plus side, it means they also don't know about Blofeld, all they know is the parody of Austin Powers, not the name or the character.
  • JCRendleJCRendle
    Posts: 1,552
    It doesn't help that the logos are, indeed, extremely similar.

    10808594_1387213044904950_1305730780_n.jpg
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,179
    They're both just copying the logo of my boy Cthulhu:

    nZO4VHU.png

    H.P. Lovecraft described the logo in his 1928 story The Call Of Cthulhu. :-)
  • JCRendleJCRendle
    Posts: 1,552
    @DarthDimi too many legs ;)
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,179
    Those aren't Cthulhu's legs, @JCRendle...

    Bet you're intrigued now, huh? ;-)
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Cthulhu's pretty popular these days so I'm sure people will start saying both Bond and Hydra ripped it off. =))
  • delfloriadelfloria
    Posts: 1,859
    Too bad anyone would think that Bond stole this from Marvel because S.H.I.E.L.D. and HYDRA were actually inspired by U.N.C.L.E. and Thrush according to Stan Lee. Something that Ian Fleming had a hand in creating.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    komododragonB wrote: »
    Here's the ironic twist, and I'm a fan of Marvel but the writers possibly Stan lee himself have said that HYDRA was indeed inspired by SPECTRE from the Bond films. Baron Von Strucker = Ernst Stavro Blofeld. Even Von Strucker's "demise", falling into a reactor is straight out of Dr. No and it should be noted that the Strange Tales story was also the first of Nick Fury agent of Shield run and he was basically Marvel's equivalent of James Bond and the writers never denied that. Either way whatever anyone says, Truth is the truth.

    James Bond = SPECTRE! It infects every movie franchise, from The Dark Knight to Marvel, from Furious 7 to Ethan Hunt. Bond is like a virus: You can't avoid it. And this is already happening since 1962 >:)
  • JCRendleJCRendle
    edited April 2015 Posts: 1,552
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Those aren't Cthulhu's legs, @JCRendle...

    Bet you're intrigued now, huh? ;-)
    Not really, I know a bit about Lovescraft's Cthulhu mythos, it was a poor joke.
  • OnlyManWhoCanOnlyManWhoCan Greater London
    Posts: 202
    JCRendle wrote: »
    It doesn't help that the logos are, indeed, extremely similar.

    10808594_1387213044904950_1305730780_n.jpg

    Yeah I'm surprised they didn't redesign the logo - not only in light of Hydra but also... their logo is an octopus? Really?

    Don't get me wrong - I love the SPECTRE logo and I also love the modernised version that features in the trailer. However, until I see the film we don't know if this is an organisation that views itself as 'evil.' I feel this is an outdated concept though, so we may end up with an organisation that believes themselves to be 'saving' the world (in their own warped way) but have decided upon a really creepy logo!

    Apropos of nothing I love it when supposedly secret organisations have a branding dept - it amuses me no end in Agents of S.H.E.I.L.D. when Hydra special forces have their logo on full display, or the executives have meetings around a table emblazoned with the skull-and-tentacle symbol! :))
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    JCRendle wrote: »
    It doesn't help that the logos are, indeed, extremely similar.

    10808594_1387213044904950_1305730780_n.jpg

    Write a letter to Disney/Marvel. THEY need to re-design, not the Bond franchise :-).

    I'm wondering though how this works out legally. I mean, the official Bond producers were constantly brought to court by that Kevin McGlory-villain. Now EON have the "rights" to everything that's related to S.P.E.C.T.R.E. no? It includes the name "Ernst Stavro Blofeld" and the accronym "S.P.E.C.T.R.E.". But does it include the original Octopus-logo as well? Can they copyright it, similar to the 007-logo?
  • JCRendleJCRendle
    Posts: 1,552
    In a way they have, from the trailer:-
    spectre-ring.png
    Looks like they're moving away from the similarity to the HYDRA logo.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited April 2015 Posts: 18,270
    I wasn't aware of this debate that has been raging on social media but I will say that it is all rather ironic considering that 'Madam Spectra' (very similar sounding to 'Hydra') was actually the Head of SPECTRE in the later 1980s comic strips of the Daily Star after the deaths of Ernst Stavro Blofeld and his heir. :D
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    JCRendle wrote: »
    In a way they have, from the trailer:-
    spectre-ring.png
    Looks like they're moving away from the similarity to the HYDRA logo.

    Not deliberately. And in all honesty, IF EON changed the logo due to similarities with the HYDRA-logo, then I find it bullocks. Disney/Marvel need to change! Not EON :-). Disney/Marvel choose an octopus, with striking similarities to the octopus-logo from the Bond franchise.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    This looks like a design choice to me. Nothing more.
  • ChampionAlonsoChampionAlonso
    Posts: 389
    This is one of the reasons why I am a bit fed up with Marvel and Marvel fanatics. My God, the original thing is SPECTRE !!!
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Why be mad at Marvel? They've been using the symbol almost as long as Bond has and have been utilising it in their films/shows because they can. It's not a competition. If anyone should take some heat it's definitely the clowns who know no better, making false claims but Marvel themselves hardly deserve any flack.
  • AlexanderWaverlyAlexanderWaverly
    Posts: 2,115
    I think it's more of a coincidence, but the head Hydra in the 1960s SHIELD comics, Baron Wolfgang von Strucker, bears a resemblance to Donald Pleasance/Blofeld. The reason I say coincidence is because Strucker made his debut in 1963 in, I think, the fourth issue of Sgt. Fury and His Howling Commandos, a World War II comic. After that appearance, in 1966 or 1967, it was established that von Strucker survived the war and was running Hydra.

    https://hmssweblog.wordpress.com/2012/10/05/blofeld-and-strucker-masterminds-separated-at-birth/
  • AlexanderWaverlyAlexanderWaverly
    edited April 2015 Posts: 2,115
    MadeleineSwann wrote: »
    It's like Skyfall "copying" The Dark Knight all over again.

    But on that one, you have quotes from Sam Mendes saying he took inspiration from The Dark Knight. Arguably turn about is fair play, given the times Nolan was inspired by Bond movies.

    http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/sam-mendes-says-he-was-not-at-all-interested-in-bond-at-first-took-direct-inspiration-from-christopher-nolans-dark-knight-films-20121018#



  • AlexanderWaverlyAlexanderWaverly
    Posts: 2,115
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    JCRendle wrote: »
    It doesn't help that the logos are, indeed, extremely similar.

    10808594_1387213044904950_1305730780_n.jpg

    Write a letter to Disney/Marvel. THEY need to re-design, not the Bond franchise :-).

    I'm wondering though how this works out legally. I mean, the official Bond producers were constantly brought to court by that Kevin McGlory-villain. Now EON have the "rights" to everything that's related to S.P.E.C.T.R.E. no? It includes the name "Ernst Stavro Blofeld" and the accronym "S.P.E.C.T.R.E.". But does it include the original Octopus-logo as well? Can they copyright it, similar to the 007-logo?

    The Hydra logo has been used by Marvel since 1965. Eon didn't challenge it at the time. If Eon tried to challenge it a half-century later after not doing anything, they might lose in court.

    Recall how Kevin McClory, in the 1990s, tried to challenge Eon, saying the Eon 007 film series was based on his material? McClory hadn't made that claim previously and he lost in court, in part because he waited so long.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Nobody needs to change anything. It's a logo. They are similar in design. They serve the purposes of both respective franchises. This is nothing to get worked up over. People cry over such mundane details these days. True fans of the material will know the origins. 8-|
  • AlexanderWaverlyAlexanderWaverly
    Posts: 2,115
    Murdock wrote: »
    Nobody needs to change anything. It's a logo. They are similar in design. They serve the purposes of both respective franchises. This is nothing to get worked up over. People cry over such mundane details these days. True fans of the material will know the origins. 8-|

    Indeed.
  • andmcitandmcit
    Posts: 1,068
    Murdock wrote: »
    Nobody needs to change anything. It's a logo. They are similar in design. They serve the purposes of both respective franchises. This is nothing to get worked up over. People cry over such mundane details these days. True fans of the material will know the origins. 8-|

    Totally agree Murdock - there's nothing to get worked up about here. OMG, both logos are round...

  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    Murdock wrote: »
    Nobody needs to change anything. It's a logo. They are similar in design. They serve the purposes of both respective franchises. This is nothing to get worked up over. People cry over such mundane details these days. True fans of the material will know the origins. 8-|

    Exactly.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Murdock wrote: »
    Nobody needs to change anything. It's a logo. They are similar in design. They serve the purposes of both respective franchises. This is nothing to get worked up over. People cry over such mundane details these days. True fans of the material will know the origins. 8-|

    This excellent point needs to be driven home a fifth time.
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