Take a seat, have a drink, let's talk! - 013 School bullies: how serious a problem?

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  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Being myself.

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  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Glad I am not you , at laesy. Gald I am just getting drunh and switcking from DK to Eddie Cichran noe. Let s get together!
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited April 2015 Posts: 23,883
    That I personally am aware of consciously, and attempt to correct for - procrastination

    That others tell me about but I don't personally feel/find difficult to correct for - overthinking
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    In that vein, sorry for being an overlord genius.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    My major vice is caffeine, of which I consume far too much! :-)
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Whisky, Gin, Rum, Vodka, Ale, Wine... Alcohol, I guess.
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    Posts: 2,629
    Not getting enough exercise.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited April 2015 Posts: 24,183
    <center><font color=#E9AB12 size=6><b>005
    </b>How objective are journalists these days?</font>

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  • Posts: 12,526
    I think its more about the price paid for the scoop sadly?
  • Posts: 7,653
    I think that the owners of the papers decide what gets printed but otherwise journalists are just like other people are objective in their opinions, sometimes due to being better informed than the masses.
    Immediately after 9/11 in the US the papers were not allowed to question the government in all their wisdom, you are with us or against us was the motto. French fries became freedom fries because the French government questions Bush and his thugs choices. That moment in time and the aftermath shows how objective journalists are allowed to be by their bosses. FOX news is another example of how journalists get turned into puppets.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Most journalists are ignorant or liars. not that there are many left, news are mostly distributed through "news agencies" these days.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited April 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Sadly, not very objective. Far less so than in the past, that's for sure.

    The reasons are four-fold imho (although there may be more reasons):

    1. Growing concentration of media ownership in Western countries by large corporations (ABC is owned by Disney, CBS by National Amusement Theaters (Viacom), Fox by NewsCorp, CNN by TimeWarner, NBC by GE) who themselves are cross-connected via Boards of Directors which are constituted by bankers, defence corporations, ex-politicians etc.

    2. Rising competition for eyeballs from other state funded, contrary point of view (internet, state owned competitor media like RT/Russia Today or Qatar based Al Jazeera) increasingly means that Western media has to be more 'one-sided' to get its point across. The pressure on journalists & editors is intense. The internet competition further leads to the need to sensationalize rather than just report, in order to grab eyeballs.

    3. Increasing polarization of views due to the internet and information customization/bifurcation. People more and more gravitate only to news that they're interested in and to people who only agree with them rather than to conflicting points of view which they disagree with. So more choice paradoxically leads to more closed minds.
    In the old days, the news was broadcast to everyone at one time. The world was the audience (or at least, the whole country) and so there was an emphasis on objective reporting. Now news serves selected communities of like minded people (e.g. Fox for the right, MSNBC for the left etc.). The middle (arguably CNN) gets left in the cold (declining ratings). This leads to more opinionated hypothesis & pontification masquerading as objective fact based reporting. This hardening of views (on one side or the other) inevitably leads to conflict and less ability to find common ground - so it's not good for society as a whole.

    4. the large tech companies are not helping. Tying into our earlier social media discussion, I have always been against Facebook & Apple in particular because they are leading people into tightly controlled & monitored, closed subsections of the internet. In the old days (call it the wild west of the internet) people searched the world-wide web for their information and got competing viewpoints. Now, increasingly, people are navigating their information on these small smartphones which are increasingly making them dumber and using closed wall apps to get what they want - rather than seeing everything.
    Twitter is not helping either, because much of the world's news needs history & context, which is fundamental to the complex issues at play. 120 characters does not cut it. A simplified soundbite at best.

    This is one reason why I am a proponent of open discussion on this forum and on these threads, and not of 'lover' and 'hater' threads. People should have to endure views which are not in agreement with theirs. They should be able to formulate valid counterarguments. It's good for the mind and critical thinking/questioning is always a good thing - imho.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    @bondjames

    Marvellous post, sir!

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  • edited April 2015 Posts: 11,189
    *delete
  • Posts: 1,181
    One of the great follies of the mainstream media is in reporting accurate, science-based data on health/nutrition based topics. They refuse to report on the facts of sugar when it will damage their mega food industry sponsorships. The media is just now getting around to rectifying some of the bad information the public has been fed for years about fat being evil.

    I don't blame the media solely. The root of most of this goes back many years to the government deciding nutrition guidelines and removing as much fat as possible from our diets. This was due to bad science and incomplete data.

    I can't really stand to watch Fox News or CNN anymore. They are both so biased its painful. I try to get my news from reading the headlines and if I see an article that looks interesting I read the whole thing.

  • Posts: 4,617
    Journalism is virtually dead. They just tweak press releases. Printed news is a dead man walking
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    Posts: 2,629
    Today's journalists are as objective as their employers want them to be.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    patb wrote: »
    Journalism is virtually dead. They just tweak press releases. Printed news is a dead man walking

    This. Anyone with a blog can call themselves Journalists.

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    <center><font color=#E9AB12 size=6><b>006
    </b>Is the term 'sexism' being used too loosely these days?</font>

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  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Most terms are. When I offer to pick something up for a 90 year old woman who looks as thin as a twig, and I'm called a sexist for it, then, yes, it's being passed around too loosely.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    Sexism is real, I know it is. Sexism affects many women, I know that too. However I sometimes feel that women accuse men of being sexist when really, we haven't even begun to contemplate any potential undertone of things we say or write with the very best of intentions.

    Some women are offended if you don't compliment them on their new outfit, others feel offended if you do, wondering why you're checking them out head-to-toe and don't you know they're married? - OMG! Some women think it's rude if a man steps through a door first or doesn't spontaneously pay the restaurant bill, others accuse you of being an old-fashioned sexist with indecent intentions if you do. After all, gallantry is an expression of filthy sexual motives, isn't it?

    It's getting really confusing, to be honest. "I want my husband to compliment my looks but I don't expect my male colleague to do so because that's sexism!" What? Huh? Where's the logic in that? Isn't not complimenting then some form of deliberate discrimination? "Hey Bob, wow, looking good, man! Nice tan. Done a lot of fishing? ... O, hi, uh, Lucy. Uh, good to see you again WAIT! no, I didn't mean it like "that", I know you're married, I meant in a polite way like... *sigh* uh, stepping over there now... See you around! You look fine! I mean, it's not like I was looking or anything!! Uh... Bye."

    About 8 years ago I worked for two female bosses. One wanted me to call her "Madam" because she felt it was sexist if we wouldn't accentuate her femininity; the other expected to be called "Sir" because in her opinion to differentiate between genders was an act of sexism...
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited April 2015 Posts: 12,480
    I'm glad to be up in years sometimes (as in not navigating the dating waters any more). It can be confusing for all. I have no easy fix on this. It does get out of hand.

    The woman who wanted to be called "Sir" to me is simply amusing. That is a longstanding male designation, not neutral. I have always been for using "Ms." and it is feminine but not designating married or not. But don't call me 'sir" any time soon, okay? ;) In a role where a man would be called "sir" then I am fine with "madam" its feminine equivalent. Or just call me "guv" (ha!). That works for me; even not in a police procedural setting. :)

    Sexism is not so easily discerned these days as so many people are reacting differently to human interactions. Reactions are across the board it seems.

    More than 25 years ago, I was a substitute teacher in a high school. I forget the full details, but basically ... in the staff room there was a "coffee conversation" that went something like this: me, taking hot water for tea near the drip coffee maker and a male teacher came up (thought I was taking the last of the coffee; he wasn't paying attention) said something like: "If you don't make a fresh pot when you take the last of the coffee, you get a spanking next time." I looked at him -hard to write this correctly; I did not look angry, just the expression I felt and that showed on my face (I remember I raised both my eyebrows) was 'Do you realize what you just said, you big idiot?!') ... I thought it was out of line but silly/stupid of him. I actually did not say anything. Well, he caught up with me later the same day, trying to seem calm and cool but basically pleading for me not to report him for sexual harassment. I reassured him that was not even a fleeting feeling for me, regarding his one comment. That was just a silly, mildly inappropriate remark; I only wanted him to be aware that it was a bit much. But I remember how easily it slipped out from him and how panicked he was afterwards. And that was a long time ago.

    Words matter. Attitudes matter. We need to be respectful, but yes it can be difficult.
    Words are misconstrued, people are hyper sensitive these days it seems - and the media really feeds that. Which is awful.

    I do think that considerateness - such as kind acts of helping elderly people, opening a door for anyone, complimenting someone on looking nice - is in grave danger of being trampled to death. And honestly, being considerate, kind, and embracing as a human being to another human being is pretty damn important. We lose much more of that, lose being in touch with the honesty of those actions and kinds of things said, and we are one step lower towards a chaotic, isolated abyss.

    I've had (as so many women have had; I am not special) walked along streets and had men working on the street (in whatever job) wolf whistle, calling out things, even gestures. That is derogatory to me; sexist and unpleasant. On the other hand, a male worker just smiling nicely at me (not leering) as I walk by was okay with me. I would keep walking and wouldn't say anything. There is a difference.

    That's my summary today. Sexism - not clear, overhyped, and rather a mess these days.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    But don't call me 'sir" any time soon, okay? ;) .

    Yes, sir. ;)
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Okay, Cap'n! At ease. ;)
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited April 2015 Posts: 23,883
    This is another difficult question to answer.

    I personally find it's best to be prudent and chivalrous (which is something I'm more comfortable with and which is more natural to me anyway, being somewhat old fashioned when it comes to these things). So I do open doors, offer seats and pay for dinners. However, I also find I'm not as openly complimentary as I perhaps would like to be on occasion, because I do not want the praise to be misconstrued - if it's someone I don't know well enough.

    Having said that, I think this is a very personal thing, as can be imagined, since everyone is different. Some members of the fairer sex may not be offended by something that could be perceived as insulting by others, as @DarthDimi experienced. It also varies by age, by country (some countries are more accepting of sexist attitudes than others, even in the West - say Italy for instance) and interestingly, also depends on the who and the how. The very same act can cause offense or not to the same person depending on who does it and what tone and character it takes. So it's really quite difficult to understand because it sort of defies logical analysis and can be confusing as a result.

    However, I don't think sexism is being used any more loosely these days. At least not any more so in the last 20 yrs - although I certainly think there was a cultural shift in the 90's compared to previous decades - remember GE and the "M scolding" & "Yes Sir".
    In fact, the continued recent popularity and prevalence of rap culture/music along with associated misogyny may have actually taken things back a few decades - not exactly the best role models for young women/girls, and it further complicates gender expectations for some.

    I also don't think there are any real standards for behaviour which doesn't help - so from my perspective it's probably best to be polite rather than unrefined when it comes to this perplexing matter - especially when dealing with someone you don't know too well. It's also important to be yourself as well though. As @4EverBonded suggested, confusing indeed.
  • Posts: 1,181
    @DarthDimi You summed it up perfectly! Women want to have their cake and eat it too with icing on it. It almost puts you into a situation sometimes where you are gridlocked into not saying anything at all, or saying the least possible amount of syllables without totally ignoring someone.

    Surprisingly enough though, women can have the worst potty mouths around. I had a manager a few years ago that proceeded to tell me about a very specific sex act she had witnessed in nauseating detail. Keep in mind this was in front of 3 or 4 others so she wasn't trying to seduce me or anything like that, but it was extremely awkward around the other females in the room while she was telling the story. Later on, the Director of Operations(Male and a friend of mine since I had started working there) asked me if this was true that she had spoke about this subject in front of a group. I told him look I don't want to get her fired, but he insisted that I had to tell the truth and recite the whole damn story to him.

    This action along with another minor screwup was all they needed to fire her ass immediately. I really hated being involved at all in getting someone fired, but they forced my hand. As soon as I detect any inkling of a similar situation beginning in the future, I will leave the room immediately and say I'm sorry I can't participate in this discussion. I just don't want to be called to testify and taddle-tell on someone at work who ends up losing their job in the end. I realize its their fault for losing the job, but leave me out of it.
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    Posts: 2,629
    Disagree. It just hangs loosely.


    Actually, I really have nothing else to add. I think @DarthDimi and @4EverBonded both addressed their points brilliantly.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Sexism and Misogyny are the key buzzwords being thrown around these days.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    I read about some guy who got death threats because he asked his date to split their dinner bill which came to 350.
  • Posts: 4,622
    Murdock wrote: »
    Sexism and Misogyny are the key buzzwords being thrown around these days.
    Yes quite, I rather llike misogynist. One can sound very superior if you can get it to roll off the tongue just right.
    Guys, do compliment women on their look at every opportunity. They love it.
    Great icebreaker.
    Maybe stop short of "nice ass" or "great rack" (unless its closing time at bar, or attending wet T-shirt contest).

    But otherwise lay it on thick!
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