"Don't worry, I'll tell the chef ": Thunderball Appreciation & Discussion

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  • JWPepperJWPepper You sit on it, but you can't take it with you.
    Posts: 512
    Ludovico wrote: »
    BT3366 wrote: »
    Octopussy wrote: »


    I love how even moments that don't particularly stand out in the iconography of Thunderball when one immediately thinks of the film are brilliant. I love the OO briefing and the scale of the Ken Adams set is awesome.
    I do too. It really stands out in the series as there's never been another type of scene like it with a meeting of defense personnel (usually it's just Bond and a handful of others) and all the 00s, that tapestry revealing the positions and I love Blofeld's voice on the tape "My dear prime minister..." Eric Pohlman's voice talent really added to his portrayal of No. 1.

    Love that scene. I always wondered why Pohlmann never played Blofeld in the flesh, I'm YOLT or OHMSS. Was he a much better voice actor than "plain" actor? Did he lack physical presence?

    Eric Pohlman would have been a great Blofeld. He also had a great physical presence.

    By the way, was it Pohlman who did the voice-over in Thunderball?? Some people claim it's Joseph Wiseman's voice. I think I agree. Compare the voice of Blofeld in FRWL and Thunderball, the voice is very different. And then compare Thunderball Blofeld to Dr. No.
  • Posts: 1,927
    JWPepper wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    BT3366 wrote: »
    Octopussy wrote: »


    I love how even moments that don't particularly stand out in the iconography of Thunderball when one immediately thinks of the film are brilliant. I love the OO briefing and the scale of the Ken Adams set is awesome.
    I do too. It really stands out in the series as there's never been another type of scene like it with a meeting of defense personnel (usually it's just Bond and a handful of others) and all the 00s, that tapestry revealing the positions and I love Blofeld's voice on the tape "My dear prime minister..." Eric Pohlman's voice talent really added to his portrayal of No. 1.

    Love that scene. I always wondered why Pohlmann never played Blofeld in the flesh, I'm YOLT or OHMSS. Was he a much better voice actor than "plain" actor? Did he lack physical presence?

    Eric Pohlman would have been a great Blofeld. He also had a great physical presence.

    By the way, was it Pohlman who did the voice-over in Thunderball?? Some people claim it's Joseph Wiseman's voice. I think I agree. Compare the voice of Blofeld in FRWL and Thunderball, the voice is very different. And then compare Thunderball Blofeld to Dr. No.

    I too had heard that about Wiseman and thought it was true. Several years ago I asked the question on another Bond fan forum and no less than Graham Rye of the James Bond Fan Club replied and confirmed it was Pohlman, so that was good enough for me. It's still hard sometimes not to hear Wiseman in that voice.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,485
    I love the scene after the briefing. When M walks in on Moneypenny and Bond.

    "You may be able to fool the "old man" but I know different I...

    "So do I Miss Moneypenny. And kindly not refer to me...as the old man."

    Bond "I think I had a hat when I came in."

    Love the dynamic!

    I agree with you @BT3366 Dench and Craig seemed to have more of an antagonistic relationship. Somewhat to what Hamilton liked to have between Bond and M. If you notice GF, DAF, LALD and TMWTGG Bond and M are always either having disagreements or M seems pissed at Bond. Similar vibe in Craig and Dench.
  • Posts: 230
    thedove wrote: »
    I love the scene after the briefing. When M walks in on Moneypenny and Bond.

    "You may be able to fool the "old man" but I know different I...

    "So do I Miss Moneypenny. And kindly not refer to me...as the old man."

    Bond "I think I had a hat when I came in."

    Love the dynamic!

    I agree with you @BT3366 Dench and Craig seemed to have more of an antagonistic relationship. Somewhat to what Hamilton liked to have between Bond and M. If you notice GF, DAF, LALD and TMWTGG Bond and M are always either having disagreements or M seems pissed at Bond. Similar vibe in Craig and Dench.

    There was legit character development between Dench and Bond throughout the course of the films. Just compare the dialogue in GE with the lengths Bond goes through in SF (continuity issues ignored, of course).
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,485
    I think we saw an arc in Brosnan and Dench and their relationship. By the time DAD comes around she wants him to "mix things up" with Graves. Craig's Bond and her seem to be at loggerheads. She's upset with him and reprimands him on the beach about Solange. She gets further pissed at him in QOS. In SF she sticks up for him and puts her career on the line for him, though I am not sure why as to this point there really hasn't been any acknowledgment of his achievements.

    But to put this back to TB. I too like M throughout this movie. He sticks up for Bond with the Home Secretary. Who is perfectly cast as a snooty suit!

    My only complaint with TB is the ending has pacing issues. Lots of underwater action that looks rather tame and boring. But it is beautifully shot and the final battle with the navy versus S.P.E.C.T.R.E is quite something.
  • Posts: 1,927
    thedove wrote: »
    My only complaint with TB is the ending has pacing issues. Lots of underwater action that looks rather tame and boring. But it is beautifully shot and the final battle with the navy versus S.P.E.C.T.R.E is quite something.

    Your opinion, shared by many others it seems. But I have to take issue with tame claim. I can understand the complaint many have about the battle's length, but beneath the surface (see what I did there) there is some real and graphic violence in that scene what with divers being speared, smashed through the diver masks and that memorable shot of Largo with the bloody knife. Alan Barnes and Marcus Hearn mentioned it in their review of the book Kiss Kiss Bang Band something to the effect of "this is not comic strip James Bond, this is nasty stuff." Not that that's a good thing, but it stands out in the series.

    If that wasn't enough, they also have to contend with sharks and other undersea life and there are even a few moments of humor mixed in.

    The TB final battle also stands out in it differs from other such battles in the series that usually involve the two armies with machine guns and pistols blazing and grenades exploding. I find GF's pretty staid in that way, for example.
  • ThunderballThunderball playing Chemin de Fer in a casino, downing Vespers
    edited March 2020 Posts: 815
    I have never understood the complaint about the underwater battle in TB being boring. Every time I watch the film I am amazed by what the filmmakers did there. Doing this kind of thing in 1965 wasn't ordinary. And it's underwater....I think had the filmmakers completely sped it up even more than the PTS fight between Bond and Bouvard, then we'd have a legitimate reason to complain. I love that battle. I love how there's virtually no dialogue at all. Nothing boring about it at all.
    And by the way, using the word 'boring' to describe part or all of a Bond movie is already getting tiresome (see the Is FYEO Boring thread for example). Good or bad, Bond movies are rarely if ever boring. Like, I completely hate Die Another Day's guts, but it's never BORING. Fleming's novels (at least so far for me) are never boring either, but I can imagine some who find the underwater battle in TB boring would say the same about Fleming's stuff.
  • Posts: 230
    I have never understood the complaint about the underwater battle in TB being boring. Every time I watch the film I am amazed by what the filmmakers did there. Doing this kind of thing in 1965 wasn't ordinary. And it's underwater....I think had the filmmakers completely sped it up even more than the PTS fight between Bond and Bouvard, then we'd have a legitimate reason to complain. I love that battle. I love how there's virtually no dialogue at all. Nothing boring about it at all.
    And by the way, using the word 'boring' to describe part or all of a Bond movie is already getting tiresome (see the Is FYEO Boring thread for example). Good or bad, Bond movies are rarely if ever boring. Like, I completely hate Die Another Day's guts, but it's never BORING. Fleming's novels (at least so far for me) are never boring either, but I can imagine some who find the underwater battle in TB boring would say the same about Fleming's stuff.

    It is a bit long, but the action is interesting. The biggest underwater issue for me is burying the bomb. it is WAY too long and kills the momentum of the film. I disagree that there is never anything boring in Bond films. Most of th Connery films have stretches where not much of interest happens - esp. in the films with longer expositions.

    I will say everything from Bond arriving in Nassau until the final battle is my favorite stretch of any Bod film.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,485
    Oh I have no problem with the final battle. I think it is nasty and rather beautiful at the same time as there is mayhem going on.

    Some of the boring underwater stuff:
    • Bond doing his underwater photographs when apparently Largo has men always under the Disco Volante. The fight after is really rather a weak attempt. I'd prefer the hand grenade of Bond by Largo that takes place after.
    • Bond going in the team to get the bombs. Takes way too long.
    • The sinking and stealing of the bombs. I'm not sure what narrative purpose this serves I frequently jump that part and the film isn't less enjoyable.

    These are my beefs with the underwater stuff.
  • Posts: 1,927
    I think we can apply the term boring, as Bond fans, in a community sense. So I think we in making the comparison to other Bond films it can be applicable, not, for example, a talky drama or chick flick. For example, I'd never apply boredom when applied to a Bond film as a fan as opposed to being bored by one of the many Lifetime movies or Hallmark movies where they are basically the same thing over and over and over. THAT, my friends, is boredom.

    Maybe we could apply a politically correct term such as less creatively inspiring or comparatively uninvolving.
  • Posts: 1,596
    The underwater action scenes are not boring whatsoever. They were groundbreaking then, and still breathtaking and astounding now. The added layer that the characters could not only die from the person they are fighting -- but also by drowning -- at any moment just adds another layer of tension and suspense and thrill.
  • Posts: 230
    thedove wrote: »
    Oh I have no problem with the final battle. I think it is nasty and rather beautiful at the same time as there is mayhem going on.

    Some of the boring underwater stuff:
    • Bond doing his underwater photographs when apparently Largo has men always under the Disco Volante. The fight after is really rather a weak attempt. I'd prefer the hand grenade of Bond by Largo that takes place after.
    • Bond going in the team to get the bombs. Takes way too long.
    • The sinking and stealing of the bombs. I'm not sure what narrative purpose this serves I frequently jump that part and the film isn't less enjoyable.

    These are my beefs with the underwater stuff.

    I always thought Bond taking the photographs was rushed. He was literally there for 2 seconds before thugs arrived (like you said). Could have really built tension by sneaking around the DV for a bit.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,232
    Absolutely adore the underwater scenes in TB. I think they're shoot extremely well and I love Barry's manipulation of the 007 theme there to match the epic scope of it.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,335
    thedove wrote: »
    I think we saw an arc in Brosnan and Dench and their relationship. By the time DAD comes around she wants him to "mix things up" with Graves. Craig's Bond and her seem to be at loggerheads. She's upset with him and reprimands him on the beach about Solange. She gets further pissed at him in QOS. In SF she sticks up for him and puts her career on the line for him, though I am not sure why as to this point there really hasn't been any acknowledgment of his achievements.

    But to put this back to TB. I too like M throughout this movie. He sticks up for Bond with the Home Secretary. Who is perfectly cast as a snooty suit!

    My only complaint with TB is the ending has pacing issues. Lots of underwater action that looks rather tame and boring. But it is beautifully shot and the final battle with the navy versus S.P.E.C.T.R.E is quite something.

    You're missing the pivotal moment when Bond escapes his own people in the hotel, walks towards her and says she wants Fields to be reccommended in the report. 'she showed true bravery'.
    Then M realises Bond's been on the mission all along. She even references to that when Bond walks away from Yussef and she asks if he's still alive. That's not a jab at him, but a confirmation he wasn't out on revenge.

    I agree to an extend that the burying of the bombs could've been cut shorter, but the fight underwater I still find amazing. I don't know of any other film that has such action. The fights with all the danger of under water (u/w life, pressure, etc.) I think makes for a long, thrilling ride.
  • Posts: 1,927
    STLCards3 wrote: »
    thedove wrote: »
    Oh I have no problem with the final battle. I think it is nasty and rather beautiful at the same time as there is mayhem going on.

    Some of the boring underwater stuff:
    • Bond doing his underwater photographs when apparently Largo has men always under the Disco Volante. The fight after is really rather a weak attempt. I'd prefer the hand grenade of Bond by Largo that takes place after.
    • Bond going in the team to get the bombs. Takes way too long.
    • The sinking and stealing of the bombs. I'm not sure what narrative purpose this serves I frequently jump that part and the film isn't less enjoyable.

    These are my beefs with the underwater stuff.

    I always thought Bond taking the photographs was rushed. He was literally there for 2 seconds before thugs arrived (like you said). Could have really built tension by sneaking around the DV for a bit.
    The production team missed a potential way to make this scene more suspenseful by adding the scene from the book where Bond is investigating the Disco Volante underwater and is surprised by a Largo frogman and during the struggle the bad guy is attacked and violently killed by some type of undersea creature, not a shark. Been a while since I've read it, but it's Fleming at his descriptive best.

    Of course, with sharks being a threat at other points in the film, it may have been a bit of overload on that type of thing.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,485
    Wonderful stuff! Great to combine Bond and Lego. I think it's time for a Bond Lego movie! :)
  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 2,868
    That’s priceless.

    I think we now have the solution to how EON can get back to producing Bond movies every two years – employ LEGO actors and sets!
  • zebrafishzebrafish <°)))< in Octopussy's garden in the shade
    edited March 2020 Posts: 4,348
    Fantastic! Loved the inclusion of the Corgi toy car and the fact that you did not even try to hide the ropes. @vzok , please do another one (oops, just saw it's not yours, but anyway, maybe also do one!)
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,335
  • Posts: 1,927
    Continuing on some of the discussion from the Is Skyfall the best Bond thread, it seems some aren't big on the jet pack. While nowhere near as iconic as the Aston Martin, it has its place among the memorable gadgets, having been included in the DAD Q's lab scene and considered for use in subsequent Bond scripts and in the FRWL video game.

    And it's a real gadget with a practical purpose. Lost in Space had a character use a jetpack in an early episode and a guy wearing one was part of the pregame during the first Super Bowl in 1967. Yeah the dodgy back projection due to the helmet distracts some, but there are worse instances of that in the series.

    If we want to criticize something in the precredits, the water spray thing is pretty goofy. I always wondered why the henchmen didn't just run around to get to Bond.
  • edited March 2020 Posts: 11,425
    I remember watching the PTS as a kid and my heart sinking. Just a lame silly gadget. It just has a really naff vibe to the PTS. I do remember enjoying the underwater battles though and of course the Barry score.
  • Posts: 1,927
    Getafix wrote: »
    I remember watching the PTS as a kid and my heart sinking. Just a lame silly gadget. It just has a really naff vibe to the PTS. I do remember enjoying the underwater battles though and of course the Barry score.

    How do you feel about the underwater battle and other underwater scenes now? Do they bother you or take you out of TB as many others have expressed?
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,232
    I also quite like the jetpack as a concept, and I think it's a cool moment if you don't think too much about it. But if you do think about it, it is a silly scenario to use it in.

    Who put it there? How did nobody notice is being lugged up to that spot? Did Bond always intend to escape that way? :)

  • Posts: 1,927
    I also quite like the jetpack as a concept, and I think it's a cool moment if you don't think too much about it. But if you do think about it, it is a silly scenario to use it in.

    Who put it there? How did nobody notice is being lugged up to that spot? Did Bond always intend to escape that way? :)
    I've seen it implied that he flew in on it and waited. I guess his bodyguards and staff were all at the funeral when Bond flew it in.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,232
    BT3366 wrote: »
    I also quite like the jetpack as a concept, and I think it's a cool moment if you don't think too much about it. But if you do think about it, it is a silly scenario to use it in.

    Who put it there? How did nobody notice is being lugged up to that spot? Did Bond always intend to escape that way? :)
    I've seen it implied that he flew in on it and waited. I guess his bodyguards and staff were all at the funeral when Bond flew it in.

    That works, I suppose!
  • Posts: 11,425
    BT3366 wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    I remember watching the PTS as a kid and my heart sinking. Just a lame silly gadget. It just has a really naff vibe to the PTS. I do remember enjoying the underwater battles though and of course the Barry score.

    How do you feel about the underwater battle and other underwater scenes now? Do they bother you or take you out of TB as many others have expressed?

    Need to give it a rewatch. I don't remember a huge amount from TB tbh. Apart from Fiona Volpe.
  • Posts: 11,425
    https://www.007.com/thunderball/

    It's more Thunderbirds than James Bond
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,335
    Getafix wrote: »
    BT3366 wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    I remember watching the PTS as a kid and my heart sinking. Just a lame silly gadget. It just has a really naff vibe to the PTS. I do remember enjoying the underwater battles though and of course the Barry score.

    How do you feel about the underwater battle and other underwater scenes now? Do they bother you or take you out of TB as many others have expressed?

    Need to give it a rewatch. I don't remember a huge amount from TB tbh. Apart from Fiona Volpe.

    That's after all all you need to remember 😜
  • Posts: 1,596
    One of the greatest characters in Bond history.
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