"Don't worry, I'll tell the chef ": Thunderball Appreciation & Discussion

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Comments

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,383
    Wasn't having nukes, the Aston etc. repetitive too? Repetition is kind of the name of the game with Bond; I'm happy to accept that in a trade-off for tension and excitement.
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    Posts: 1,646
    The tropes are entertaining when they're done properly, just like I've eaten the same meal hundreds of times in my lifetime. Nobody is necessarily looking for inspiration or a Twilight Zone twist in a Bond movie: play the notes as best to your abilities and the tune will come out fine. I do think there needs to be several variations to a franchise formula, to avoid going stale (like M:I may have).
  • edited August 2023 Posts: 15,116
    mtm wrote: »
    Wasn't having nukes, the Aston etc. repetitive too? Repetition is kind of the name of the game with Bond; I'm happy to accept that in a trade-off for tension and excitement.

    There's repetitions and there's variations. I think TB and the best Bond films use the latter more. SPECTRE gets nukes, but through theft, not with the help of China and Russia. The whole plot is completely different from the previous movie, like GF was from FRWL and FRWL from DN. And if the Aston Martin is there Bond barely uses it. The gadgets he uses in the PTS are not the ones he used in GF and when Count Lippe tries to kill him he has no time to use them that Fiona Volpe murders him. I suspect there was a conscious attempt not to repeat the previous movie, while acknowledging its existence.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited August 2023 Posts: 16,383
    The countdown at the end of YOLT absolutely is a variation, not a repetition. It's a completely different situation, and he's not even trying to stop a bomb going off, but trying to destroy a spaceship before it swallows another one to avert WW3. If you're saying that's a repetition then you're writing off most of the Bond movies!

    I think that, rather than making a conscious attempt not to repeat the previous movie, they learned all the wrong lessons from it, but finally got there for YOLT. GF had interesting and larger-than-life villains like Oddjob which people loved; TB gave us Vargas. What does he do? GF gave Bond cool and interesting gadgets which he uses in interesting and amusing ways; TB gave the cool gadgets (the rocket bike, the transforming yacht) to the baddies, whilst Bond gets a silly backpack, a pill and a tape in a book. Yes he has the jetpack, but he uses that where he could have used a ladder much easier. GF has a laser beam and an atom bomb right there; TB has a few guns and some bombs we don't see. Everything is somehow less, rather than more, as it should have been. And no, that's not a matter of not repeating itself; it's failing to learn from the successful film before. And the series did indeed go back to many of those points after TB, when it finally worked out they were the good bits.
    Connery is at his peak though, and the music is as gorgeous as ever.
  • edited August 2023 Posts: 15,116
    I just found the self-destruct device too much of a deus ex machina, whether it's a repetition or a variation. Beside I never stated it was a repetition. YOLT was too heavy in sci-fi and too far off the source material for my taste, but that's another debate entirely.

    Regarding the gadgets in TB I am glad they didn't just reuse the Aston in the same way they did in GF AND gave gadgets to the villains too. We knew SPECTRE has gadgets from FRWL. Does only MI6 have resources and engineers? That's actually something I'd like to see more in Bond movies.
  • Posts: 6,709
    Well, the last time they thought of that they gave gadgets to Zao. So, I’d say no thanks ;)
  • edited August 2023 Posts: 15,116
    Univex wrote: »
    Well, the last time they thought of that they gave gadgets to Zao. So, I’d say no thanks ;)

    It was poorly executed in a terrible movie, but it was a good idea. I loved how in the early films, the villains' gadgets were kind of nastier: a shoe with poisoned blade, a garrot hidden in a watch, etc. And, even if I'm not a fan of TMWTGG, the golden gun disguised as everyday objects
    Sneaky stuff meant to murder, not merely kill. Bond had lethal gadgets too, but not exclusively.
    (And I know it's off topic, so I might start a new thread about it.)
  • Posts: 1,986
    Is there a word for a variation of a repetition? Or will we need to coin one here?

  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,426
    To my mind TB is a blend of serious with outrageous. It tries very hard to keep the plot grounded and yet we have a villain with an eye patch. We have Bond sleuthing around Shrublands only because Lippe's tattoo.

    Whereas GF embraced the outlandish, TB dials it back. Sure the jet pack is OTT, the gadgets in TB are really pushing the limits of reality. A pill that will trigger Bond to appear on the radar would have to be a fatal dose of radiation. The re-breather was at most a few seconds of air, and yet someone from the US military reached out to find out more about it. ;)

    I like the balance that TB strikes. My challenge with it is the run time, and the sense of urgency which never really comes through. Why hijack bombs and then give the free world lots of time to track them down?
  • Posts: 15,116
    thedove wrote: »
    To my mind TB is a blend of serious with outrageous. It tries very hard to keep the plot grounded and yet we have a villain with an eye patch. We have Bond sleuthing around Shrublands only because Lippe's tattoo.

    Whereas GF embraced the outlandish, TB dials it back. Sure the jet pack is OTT, the gadgets in TB are really pushing the limits of reality. A pill that will trigger Bond to appear on the radar would have to be a fatal dose of radiation. The re-breather was at most a few seconds of air, and yet someone from the US military reached out to find out more about it. ;)

    I like the balance that TB strikes. My challenge with it is the run time, and the sense of urgency which never really comes through. Why hijack bombs and then give the free world lots of time to track them down?

    I think the outlandish gadgets were a remnant of GF. Not sure Young was too keen on them. Wasn't he unsatisfied with TB?
  • Posts: 6,709
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    Well, the last time they thought of that they gave gadgets to Zao. So, I’d say no thanks ;)

    It was poorly executed in a terrible movie, but it was a good idea. I loved how in the early films, the villains' gadgets were kind of nastier: a shoe with poisoned blade, a garrot hidden in a watch, etc. And, even if I'm not a fan of TMWTGG, the golden gun disguised as everyday objects
    Sneaky stuff meant to murder, not merely kill. Bond had lethal gadgets too, but not exclusively.
    (And I know it's off topic, so I might start a new thread about it.)

    You are right, of course. There are some villainous gadgets that are straight out macabre and that work very well in some of the films.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,571
    I have a very nice replica of Largo's cigarette case door remote - one of the few benign SPECTRE gadgets?
  • Posts: 6,709
    QBranch wrote: »
    I have a very nice replica of Largo's cigarette case door remote - one of the few benign SPECTRE gadgets?

    Wow, how cool. Do you have any photos?
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,571
    Univex wrote: »
    QBranch wrote: »
    I have a very nice replica of Largo's cigarette case door remote - one of the few benign SPECTRE gadgets?

    Wow, how cool. Do you have any photos?
    53126502833_3667a97d0e_o.png
    53125426322_8c24c69edf_o.png

    I didn't make this one, it had passed through at least two collectors' hands before I was lucky enough to acquire it. Not sure if any more of these were produced, I believe it was a one-off.
  • Posts: 6,709
    QBranch wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    QBranch wrote: »
    I have a very nice replica of Largo's cigarette case door remote - one of the few benign SPECTRE gadgets?

    Wow, how cool. Do you have any photos?
    53126502833_3667a97d0e_o.png
    53125426322_8c24c69edf_o.png

    I didn't make this one, it had passed through at least two collectors' hands before I was lucky enough to acquire it. Not sure if any more of these were produced, I believe it was a one-off.

    Wow, thanks! Very cool.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,383
    That’s a lovely piece of work.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,571
    I shall pretend to operate it at my next toolbox meeting, while covertly nudging the door open with my foot.
  • Posts: 15,116
    QBranch wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    QBranch wrote: »
    I have a very nice replica of Largo's cigarette case door remote - one of the few benign SPECTRE gadgets?

    Wow, how cool. Do you have any photos?
    53126502833_3667a97d0e_o.png
    53125426322_8c24c69edf_o.png

    I didn't make this one, it had passed through at least two collectors' hands before I was lucky enough to acquire it. Not sure if any more of these were produced, I believe it was a one-off.

    Looks great. And I think @Univex is right, it is one of the few benigns villainous gadgets. Heck even in TLD we have explosive milk bottles! Milk bottles! Is there anything more devious?
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,426
    Looking at the gadget more closely, do we think it doubled as a radio? I see the numbers on it maybe that's the radio frequency? Or is that counting the number of times Largo has entered the room? LOL
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,571
    thedove wrote: »
    Looking at the gadget more closely, do we think it doubled as a radio? I see the numbers on it maybe that's the radio frequency? Or is that counting the number of times Largo has entered the room? LOL
    Possibly! A bit like how Roger's morse code hairbrush had a radio coms function to speak into. All I can tell you about Largo's gadget is the grille is from the front of a pocket radio, and some of the inner parts as well.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,383
    Yeah I think I always took it to be some sort of radio; I don't know how else it could have worked back then. And even Bluetooth is basically radio of course! :)
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Reading through this thread directed me to watch TB last night…. I have such an incredible soft spot, rate it highly, think it’s Connery’s best, and realize some (some, not all), of my love is tainted because it was the first Bond film I saw (it was on tv, and I must have been four or five); it still has that magic… from punching out the “widow” at the beginning, to Bond vs Lippe at Shrublands, to the glory that is Nassau, to a hijacked jet camouflaged in the ocean, to the psychopathic and cold Fiona Volpe (no femme fatale has been able to touch this character)…

    It’s just so fantastical and Connery was so smooth… His face-off with Fiona has always been , and will continue to be, one of the best confrontations in the Bond series.
  • Posts: 15,116
    thedove wrote: »
    Looking at the gadget more closely, do we think it doubled as a radio? I see the numbers on it maybe that's the radio frequency? Or is that counting the number of times Largo has entered the room? LOL

    Maybe it's meant to open many different doors in SPECTRE meeting places? Each one with a different code?
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,426
    peter wrote: »
    Reading through this thread directed me to watch TB last night…. I have such an incredible soft spot, rate it highly, think it’s Connery’s best, and realize some (some, not all), of my love is tainted because it was the first Bond film I saw (it was on tv, and I must have been four or five); it still has that magic… from punching out the “widow” at the beginning, to Bond vs Lippe at Shrublands, to the glory that is Nassau, to a hijacked jet camouflaged in the ocean, to the psychopathic and cold Fiona Volpe (no femme fatale has been able to touch this character)…

    It’s just so fantastical and Connery was so smooth… His face-off with Fiona has always been , and will continue to be, one of the best confrontations in the Bond series.

    That film was always butchered for network TV. I recall the who Fiona and Bond in bed with the caged animal was chopped by ABC. Also the death of Colonel was cut so you didn't see the final pull back by Bond. The mink glove scene was chopped as well. I remember my first viewing of TB on VHS it was almost like discovering a deleted scene.
  • FeyadorFeyador Montreal, Canada
    Posts: 735
    Yup, I had the same experience in the mid/late '70s ... when ABC-TV was literally the only place for me to see the older films. Always heavily edited (and TB more so than most, including the Vargas death scene).

    I would only learn what I was missing later in the decade via a Bond fanzine out of Minnesota that would review, always indignantly, each of these TV screenings ....

    Nevertheless, they were always a big event in my household, where I would invariably tape-record the soundtrack (audio only, pre-VHS) then later play back the cassettes while doing homework.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    thedove wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Reading through this thread directed me to watch TB last night…. I have such an incredible soft spot, rate it highly, think it’s Connery’s best, and realize some (some, not all), of my love is tainted because it was the first Bond film I saw (it was on tv, and I must have been four or five); it still has that magic… from punching out the “widow” at the beginning, to Bond vs Lippe at Shrublands, to the glory that is Nassau, to a hijacked jet camouflaged in the ocean, to the psychopathic and cold Fiona Volpe (no femme fatale has been able to touch this character)…

    It’s just so fantastical and Connery was so smooth… His face-off with Fiona has always been , and will continue to be, one of the best confrontations in the Bond series.

    That film was always butchered for network TV. I recall the who Fiona and Bond in bed with the caged animal was chopped by ABC. Also the death of Colonel was cut so you didn't see the final pull back by Bond. The mink glove scene was chopped as well. I remember my first viewing of TB on VHS it was almost like discovering a deleted scene.

    Absolutely, I remember all the cut scenes as well. The 80s and home video was like rediscovering most of the Bond films… TV edits were never kind.

    Thankfully I didn’t see OHMSS on TV; from what our original fans say, they really took to slicing and dicing that one on TV.
  • FeyadorFeyador Montreal, Canada
    Posts: 735
    peter wrote: »
    thedove wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Reading through this thread directed me to watch TB last night…. I have such an incredible soft spot, rate it highly, think it’s Connery’s best, and realize some (some, not all), of my love is tainted because it was the first Bond film I saw (it was on tv, and I must have been four or five); it still has that magic… from punching out the “widow” at the beginning, to Bond vs Lippe at Shrublands, to the glory that is Nassau, to a hijacked jet camouflaged in the ocean, to the psychopathic and cold Fiona Volpe (no femme fatale has been able to touch this character)…

    It’s just so fantastical and Connery was so smooth… His face-off with Fiona has always been , and will continue to be, one of the best confrontations in the Bond series.

    That film was always butchered for network TV. I recall the who Fiona and Bond in bed with the caged animal was chopped by ABC. Also the death of Colonel was cut so you didn't see the final pull back by Bond. The mink glove scene was chopped as well. I remember my first viewing of TB on VHS it was almost like discovering a deleted scene.

    Absolutely, I remember all the cut scenes as well. The 80s and home video was like rediscovering most of the Bond films… TV edits were never kind.

    Thankfully I didn’t see OHMSS on TV; from what our original fans say, they really took to slicing and dicing that one on TV.

    Ohhhh, yeah ... perversely enough, while I had seen my first Bond films in 1975, it was that infamous 1976 OHMSS screening that I have a very clear memory of watching, perhaps in part because it was played over two weeks.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited August 2023 Posts: 16,383
    peter wrote: »
    It’s just so fantastical and Connery was so smooth… His face-off with Fiona has always been , and will continue to be, one of the best confrontations in the Bond series.

    Fiona should have been the main villain. The scenes with her and Connery have such spark and she lights up the screen, whereas Largo is really a dead weight in the film. He’s just a sort of glowering hunk of meat. Shame, because Celi is good value in other films I’ve seen.
  • Posts: 1,986
    Fiona and Largo are both great villains. Fiona provides the sass and sex. Largo is suave and cultured like Bond. He is different from previous Bond villains but very watchable.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,571
    Some great moments showcasing Largo's menace is when he's looming over Domino with ice and cigar, her reflection in the ceiling mirror. This is such great use of low angle and strategic lighting, almost hiding his face in the shadows. Also, after Quist is fed to the sharks, Largo walks off, kissing his SPECTRE ring while looking into the camera, threatening the audience.
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