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I've never noticed that before...

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  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,585
    Much has been written about the SP PTS, so forgive me if this has been mentioned.

    Tonight, I saw Birdman for the first time, and I had no idea that it served as such an influence on that SP PTS. It's not just the tracking shot...but also the places where swipes occurred, At one point in Birdman, we follow Zack Gallifinakis up a set of stairs, and as he turns a corner, we see posters on the way, where a swipe occurs. This is the exact same shot and positioning as Bond heads into the hotel, and a swipe occurs on the Dia de los Muertos lobby poster.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    You've been paying a lot of attention while watching 'Birdman'!
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I guess there are only so many ways to hide, where a cut has taken place ?
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Here's a good video highlighting some hidden cuts of Birdman.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited June 2016 Posts: 4,585
    Indeed, There are camera angles in Birdman that are obviously on influence on that SP PTS.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    @Murdock thanks for that! Interesting!
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    You're welcome @CommanderRoss. :)
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    After Patrice assassinates the man in Shanghai and he and Bond begin to fight, we get a quick shot of what's going on across the street, where after they begin moving the man's body, you can see in a separate room, in the corner of the screen, one of Severine's men choking out who I can only assume is the man's wife? Either way, always thought the target was alone, never caught his wife getting killed, as well. Makes me wonder why they need Patrice and his high-priced abilities, anyway.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Wow I'll have to keep an eye out for that next time.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    Nice catch, I can't believe I've never spotted that.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    Excellent catch @Creasy47
    You can see it in this video at about 1:57...
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    @Benny, many thanks. That video won't work for me, but at least you got to see what I'm talking about.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2016 Posts: 23,883
    I never noticed that bit either, but I have always wondered what Patrice's purpose was in Shanghai, since those big goons who followed Severine around were more than capable of breaking the measly art connoisseur's neck themselves, given they were the ones given the task to kill Bond a few scenes later.

    I guess we can add this to the litany of SF plot holes and contrivances.

    I know there was a scene of Severine at an airport which was cut out of the final film, and perhaps the whole thing would have been more clearly explained there.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    @bondjames, I believe that scene was just to reflect her passing off the suitcase to Patrice.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Thanks @Creasy47, I thought it may have led to more exposition on what that whole sequence was about. Pity. I just remember seeing the photo still well before release and then being disappointed that Mendes had the temerity to cut any scene with Severine in it.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited July 2016 Posts: 4,585
    bondjames wrote: »
    I never noticed that bit either, but I have always wondered what Patrice's purpose was in Shanghai, since those big goons who followed Severine around were more than capable of breaking the measly art connoisseur's neck themselves, given they were the ones given the task to kill Bond a few scenes later.

    I guess we can add this to the litany of SF plot holes and contrivances.

    I know there was a scene of Severine at an airport which was cut out of the final film, and perhaps the whole thing would have been more clearly explained there.



    Of all the characters in SF, Patrice is the one who was most manipulated. He was hired to do jobs simply to appear like...well, someone hired to do jobs. Fact is, his jobs were completely unnecessary...and he didn't even know it. Silva didn't need Patrice in order to get the list. Silva had the means and the ability to hack any system and get the list himself. In fact, he likely had already done so. Patrice was a pawn. And he was a dead man. If Bond hadn't killed him in Shanghai, Silva's men would have when he arrived at the casino in Macau.

    So, why was he there? My guess: to lure MI6 and/or the CIA in any direction Silva wanted. Notice how easy it was for M to learn where he'd be next???

    This was another stroke of genius in SF.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    TripAces wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I never noticed that bit either, but I have always wondered what Patrice's purpose was in Shanghai, since those big goons who followed Severine around were more than capable of breaking the measly art connoisseur's neck themselves, given they were the ones given the task to kill Bond a few scenes later.

    I guess we can add this to the litany of SF plot holes and contrivances.

    I know there was a scene of Severine at an airport which was cut out of the final film, and perhaps the whole thing would have been more clearly explained there.



    Of all the characters in SF, Patrice is the one who was most manipulated. He was hired to do jobs simply to appear like...well, someone hired to do jobs. Fact is, his jobs were completely unnecessary...and he didn't even know it. Silva didn't need Patrice in order to get the list. Silva had the means and the ability to hack any system and get the list himself. In fact, he likely had already done so. Patrice was a pawn. And he was a dead man. If Bond hadn't killed him in Shanghai, Silva's men would have when he arrived at the casino in Macau.

    So, why was he there? My guess: to lure MI6 and/or the CIA in any direction Silva wanted. Notice how easy it was for M to learn where he'd be next???

    This was another stroke of genius in SF.

    In this way it does make sense. As he'd probably planned to get rid of Severine at the outset as well.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited July 2016 Posts: 9,117
    TripAces wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I never noticed that bit either, but I have always wondered what Patrice's purpose was in Shanghai, since those big goons who followed Severine around were more than capable of breaking the measly art connoisseur's neck themselves, given they were the ones given the task to kill Bond a few scenes later.

    I guess we can add this to the litany of SF plot holes and contrivances.

    I know there was a scene of Severine at an airport which was cut out of the final film, and perhaps the whole thing would have been more clearly explained there.



    Of all the characters in SF, Patrice is the one who was most manipulated. He was hired to do jobs simply to appear like...well, someone hired to do jobs. Fact is, his jobs were completely unnecessary...and he didn't even know it. Silva didn't need Patrice in order to get the list. Silva had the means and the ability to hack any system and get the list himself. In fact, he likely had already done so. Patrice was a pawn. And he was a dead man. If Bond hadn't killed him in Shanghai, Silva's men would have when he arrived at the casino in Macau.

    So, why was he there? My guess: to lure MI6 and/or the CIA in any direction Silva wanted. Notice how easy it was for M to learn where he'd be next???

    This was another stroke of genius in SF.

    This was another stroke of sloppy writing by P&W.

    Let's not kid ourselves that us coming up with theories to make sense of all the plot holes and contrivances is a multi layered, nuanced script.

    How do MI6 find him? By use of the P&W Magic Metal Scanner™ of course! This useful gadget which gets you out of having to write a coherent story by just having a character scan a piece of metal and have the computer come back with a lot of convenient exposition to move us to the next scene is not available in stores but can be yours for the bargain price of $19.99.

    Just dial 0800 007 LAZY SCRIPTWRITING now and for the first hundred purchasers we will give you this fantastic bonus DB5 Homageoniser absolutely free.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited July 2016 Posts: 4,585
    TheWizardOfIce wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I never noticed that bit either, but I have always wondered what Patrice's purpose was in Shanghai, since those big goons who followed Severine around were more than capable of breaking the measly art connoisseur's neck themselves, given they were the ones given the task to kill Bond a few scenes later.

    I guess we can add this to the litany of SF plot holes and contrivances.

    I know there was a scene of Severine at an airport which was cut out of the final film, and perhaps the whole thing would have been more clearly explained there.



    Of all the characters in SF, Patrice is the one who was most manipulated. He was hired to do jobs simply to appear like...well, someone hired to do jobs. Fact is, his jobs were completely unnecessary...and he didn't even know it. Silva didn't need Patrice in order to get the list. Silva had the means and the ability to hack any system and get the list himself. In fact, he likely had already done so. Patrice was a pawn. And he was a dead man. If Bond hadn't killed him in Shanghai, Silva's men would have when he arrived at the casino in Macau.

    So, why was he there? My guess: to lure MI6 and/or the CIA in any direction Silva wanted. Notice how easy it was for M to learn where he'd be next???

    This was another stroke of genius in SF.

    This was another stroke of sloppy writing by P&W.

    Let's not kid ourselves that us coming up with theories to make sense of all the plot holes and contrivances is a multi layered, nuanced script.

    How do MI6 find him? By use of the P&W Magic Metal Scanner™ of course! This useful gadget which gets you out of having to write a coherent story by just having a character scan a piece of metal and have the computer come back with a lot of convenient exposition to move us to the next scene is not available in stores but can be yours for the bargain price of $19.99.

    Just dial 0800 007 LAZY SCRIPTWRITING now and for the first hundred purchasers we will give you this fantastic bonus DB5 Homageoniser absolutely free.

    Lazy scriptwriting? I doth protest.

    Let's take a look back at what Silva told Bond: "All the physical stuff. So dull, so dull. Chasing spies, so old fashioned. Your knees must be killing you."

    What do those lines mean? They're not throwaways. That would be an example of lazy scriptwriting. No, they're there as a peek into Silva's soul, his motivations. Like everything else on the island (the most important scene in the film), we are given all the clues we need to figure Silva out and realize that he is a master "manipulator" (even by his own admission).

    Follow the clues: 1. Patrice was unnecessary, but...2. he was nonetheless employed by Silva even though...3. Silva has no need for old forms of espionage and therefore...4. Patrice's employment takes on a different meaning. Is this theory? Or following the "breadcrumbs?" Patrice was a mere tool for Silva to play the old-fashioned spy game preferred by MI6 and the CIA, and to turn around and use it against them--notably, to make the world believe a list had been physically stolen, a means of public embarrassment for M. It's much in the same way that his grandmother was able to get all those rats to run into a drum...by mere "suggestion."

    Silva has been toying with MI6 by using their own outdated approaches to espionage. He does it again in London. The great irony, of course, is that Bond gets Silva to follow him, and thus that outdated "physical stuff" actually gets Silva killed.

    When Bond catches Patrice, he screams to him, "Who's got the list?" Of course, Patrice has no answer. But everyone knows that by then that "list of names" is not a physical thing. It's digital; it's in the Cloud; it's everywhere. This is a great contrast to any "list" that's ever been used as a plot device in thrillers of days gone by.

    There is no lazy scriptwriting here. There might be lazy movie watching.



    ;)
  • LudovicoLudovico
    edited July 2016 Posts: 15,124
    Do we know in SF if the list exists in any virtual form and if so if it can so easily be hacked, even by Silva? For all we know it only exists in a few hard copies, especially given the highly sensitive nature of the information on it. I know Silva has a quasi deus ex machina status when it comes to computers and hacking, but there is no reason to believe that he had the list already before the events in Istanbul. Actually, he could have easily triggered the theft of the list because he could not get it through hacking.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited July 2016 Posts: 4,585
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Do we know in SF if the list exists in any virtual form and if so if it can so easily be hacked, even by Silva? For all we know it only exists in a few hard copies, especially given the highly sensitive nature of the information on it. I know Silva has a quasi deus ex machina status when it comes to computers and hacking, but there is no reason to believe that he had the list already before the events in Istanbul. Actually, he could have easily triggered the theft of the list because he could not get it through hacking.

    Given that Silva can hack MI6's mainframe, to the point he can read Bond's fitness notes and even create an explosion at headquarters gives me reason to believe that he could easily get the encrypted list without needing Patrice to go steal it from a laptop in Istanbul.

    When I see the film, now, the entire PTS is an exercise in futility on Bond's part, and he doesn't even realize it. It's sadly ironic. Some might say that this makes it a bad script or film, but I think it makes it a better film. It illustrates new world / old world clashes, similarly to what happens in the end. Great films tend to have beginnings and endings that mirror or juxtapose each other. SF is no different.

    It saddens me when Bond fans don't see just how bloody brilliant SF is.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    TripAces wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Do we know in SF if the list exists in any virtual form and if so if it can so easily be hacked, even by Silva? For all we know it only exists in a few hard copies, especially given the highly sensitive nature of the information on it. I know Silva has a quasi deus ex machina status when it comes to computers and hacking, but there is no reason to believe that he had the list already before the events in Istanbul. Actually, he could have easily triggered the theft of the list because he could not get it through hacking.

    Given that Silva can hack MI6's mainframe, to the point he can read Bond's fitness notes and even create an explosion at headquarters gives me reason to believe that he could easily get the encrypted list without needing Patrice to go steal it from a laptop in Istanbul.

    When I see the film, now, the entire PTS is an exercise in futility on Bond's part, and he doesn't even realize it. It's sadly ironic. Some might say that this makes it a bad script or film, but I think it makes it a better film. It illustrates new world / old world clashes, similarly to what happens in the end. Great films tend to have beginnings and endings that mirror or juxtapose each other. SF is no different.

    It saddens me when Bond fans don't see just how bloody brilliant SF is.

    Well, not quite. If the laptop had no way of connecting to the internet (no wifi /bluetooth/network connections possible) he would've needed Patrice, and in state security it isn't uncommon to use devises like that in that manner. And another problem, unless Silva hadn't cared who MI6 send after him, how did he know Bond was still alive? Even MI6 didn't know....
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,009
    TripAces wrote: »
    TheWizardOfIce wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I never noticed that bit either, but I have always wondered what Patrice's purpose was in Shanghai, since those big goons who followed Severine around were more than capable of breaking the measly art connoisseur's neck themselves, given they were the ones given the task to kill Bond a few scenes later.

    I guess we can add this to the litany of SF plot holes and contrivances.

    I know there was a scene of Severine at an airport which was cut out of the final film, and perhaps the whole thing would have been more clearly explained there.



    Of all the characters in SF, Patrice is the one who was most manipulated. He was hired to do jobs simply to appear like...well, someone hired to do jobs. Fact is, his jobs were completely unnecessary...and he didn't even know it. Silva didn't need Patrice in order to get the list. Silva had the means and the ability to hack any system and get the list himself. In fact, he likely had already done so. Patrice was a pawn. And he was a dead man. If Bond hadn't killed him in Shanghai, Silva's men would have when he arrived at the casino in Macau.

    So, why was he there? My guess: to lure MI6 and/or the CIA in any direction Silva wanted. Notice how easy it was for M to learn where he'd be next???

    This was another stroke of genius in SF.

    This was another stroke of sloppy writing by P&W.

    Let's not kid ourselves that us coming up with theories to make sense of all the plot holes and contrivances is a multi layered, nuanced script.

    How do MI6 find him? By use of the P&W Magic Metal Scanner™ of course! This useful gadget which gets you out of having to write a coherent story by just having a character scan a piece of metal and have the computer come back with a lot of convenient exposition to move us to the next scene is not available in stores but can be yours for the bargain price of $19.99.

    Just dial 0800 007 LAZY SCRIPTWRITING now and for the first hundred purchasers we will give you this fantastic bonus DB5 Homageoniser absolutely free.

    Lazy scriptwriting? I doth protest.

    Let's take a look back at what Silva told Bond: "All the physical stuff. So dull, so dull. Chasing spies, so old fashioned. Your knees must be killing you."

    What do those lines mean? They're not throwaways. That would be an example of lazy scriptwriting. No, they're there as a peek into Silva's soul, his motivations. Like everything else on the island (the most important scene in the film), we are given all the clues we need to figure Silva out and realize that he is a master "manipulator" (even by his own admission).

    Follow the clues: 1. Patrice was unnecessary, but...2. he was nonetheless employed by Silva even though...3. Silva has no need for old forms of espionage and therefore...4. Patrice's employment takes on a different meaning. Is this theory? Or following the "breadcrumbs?" Patrice was a mere tool for Silva to play the old-fashioned spy game preferred by MI6 and the CIA, and to turn around and use it against them--notably, to make the world believe a list had been physically stolen, a means of public embarrassment for M. It's much in the same way that his grandmother was able to get all those rats to run into a drum...by mere "suggestion."

    Silva has been toying with MI6 by using their own outdated approaches to espionage. He does it again in London. The great irony, of course, is that Bond gets Silva to follow him, and thus that outdated "physical stuff" actually gets Silva killed.

    When Bond catches Patrice, he screams to him, "Who's got the list?" Of course, Patrice has no answer. But everyone knows that by then that "list of names" is not a physical thing. It's digital; it's in the Cloud; it's everywhere. This is a great contrast to any "list" that's ever been used as a plot device in thrillers of days gone by.

    There is no lazy scriptwriting here. There might be lazy movie watching.



    ;)

    I think you may be giving P&W a bit more credit than they actually deserve...
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited July 2016 Posts: 4,585
    LeonardPine wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    TheWizardOfIce wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I never noticed that bit either, but I have always wondered what Patrice's purpose was in Shanghai, since those big goons who followed Severine around were more than capable of breaking the measly art connoisseur's neck themselves, given they were the ones given the task to kill Bond a few scenes later.

    I guess we can add this to the litany of SF plot holes and contrivances.

    I know there was a scene of Severine at an airport which was cut out of the final film, and perhaps the whole thing would have been more clearly explained there.



    Of all the characters in SF, Patrice is the one who was most manipulated. He was hired to do jobs simply to appear like...well, someone hired to do jobs. Fact is, his jobs were completely unnecessary...and he didn't even know it. Silva didn't need Patrice in order to get the list. Silva had the means and the ability to hack any system and get the list himself. In fact, he likely had already done so. Patrice was a pawn. And he was a dead man. If Bond hadn't killed him in Shanghai, Silva's men would have when he arrived at the casino in Macau.

    So, why was he there? My guess: to lure MI6 and/or the CIA in any direction Silva wanted. Notice how easy it was for M to learn where he'd be next???

    This was another stroke of genius in SF.

    This was another stroke of sloppy writing by P&W.

    Let's not kid ourselves that us coming up with theories to make sense of all the plot holes and contrivances is a multi layered, nuanced script.

    How do MI6 find him? By use of the P&W Magic Metal Scanner™ of course! This useful gadget which gets you out of having to write a coherent story by just having a character scan a piece of metal and have the computer come back with a lot of convenient exposition to move us to the next scene is not available in stores but can be yours for the bargain price of $19.99.

    Just dial 0800 007 LAZY SCRIPTWRITING now and for the first hundred purchasers we will give you this fantastic bonus DB5 Homageoniser absolutely free.

    Lazy scriptwriting? I doth protest.

    Let's take a look back at what Silva told Bond: "All the physical stuff. So dull, so dull. Chasing spies, so old fashioned. Your knees must be killing you."

    What do those lines mean? They're not throwaways. That would be an example of lazy scriptwriting. No, they're there as a peek into Silva's soul, his motivations. Like everything else on the island (the most important scene in the film), we are given all the clues we need to figure Silva out and realize that he is a master "manipulator" (even by his own admission).

    Follow the clues: 1. Patrice was unnecessary, but...2. he was nonetheless employed by Silva even though...3. Silva has no need for old forms of espionage and therefore...4. Patrice's employment takes on a different meaning. Is this theory? Or following the "breadcrumbs?" Patrice was a mere tool for Silva to play the old-fashioned spy game preferred by MI6 and the CIA, and to turn around and use it against them--notably, to make the world believe a list had been physically stolen, a means of public embarrassment for M. It's much in the same way that his grandmother was able to get all those rats to run into a drum...by mere "suggestion."

    Silva has been toying with MI6 by using their own outdated approaches to espionage. He does it again in London. The great irony, of course, is that Bond gets Silva to follow him, and thus that outdated "physical stuff" actually gets Silva killed.

    When Bond catches Patrice, he screams to him, "Who's got the list?" Of course, Patrice has no answer. But everyone knows that by then that "list of names" is not a physical thing. It's digital; it's in the Cloud; it's everywhere. This is a great contrast to any "list" that's ever been used as a plot device in thrillers of days gone by.

    There is no lazy scriptwriting here. There might be lazy movie watching.



    ;)

    I think you may be giving P&W a bit more credit than they actually deserve...

    Maybe. LOL

    But...

    Credit them for writing a "mad genius" as a villain. Silva is capable of anything in the digital world. They have established that, through his ability to "breach the most secure computer system in Britain" not just once, but three times, the second and third occurring after MI6 moved into their "new digs." Furthermore, he had managed to take over an entire island ("Amazing what one can do with a single computer").

    In fact, Silva is a master of psychological warfare via technology. Isn't he?

    And like so many other Bond villains, Goldfinger in particular, Silva is "mad." Many see SF as having plot holes, but those holes are easily filled when you realize that Silva has no end game. He knows how to manipulate people, but after that...what??? And so is the case with M. He didn't want to kill her. Actually, he had no idea what to do with her other than humiliate her. Notice that after managing to coordinate an extravagant escape and attack on the court, what does Silva do when he has M right in his sights? Point blank. Right there. He freezes. He doesn't really want to kill her; he wants to toy with her. This is why, at the Skyfall estate, he tells his men that they are not to touch her, that he wants her alive. Then again, in the chapel, he can't kill her, and still he toys with her some more.

    Silva is so brilliant and so "gone" that explaining away the plot holes becomes easy.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2016 Posts: 23,883
    I agree that Silva is a great villain. Brilliant lines and Bardem delivers them all superbly

    "They tortured me. And I protected your secrets. I protected you. But they made me suffer. And suffer. And suffer. Until I realized it was you who betrayed me. So, I had only one thing left. My cyanide capsule in my back left molar. You remember, right? So I broke the tooth and bit into the capsule.And it burned all my insides. But I didn't die. Life clung to me like a disease. And then I understood why I had survived. I needed to look in your eyes one last time."
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,124
    CommanderRoss wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Do we know in SF if the list exists in any virtual form and if so if it can so easily be hacked, even by Silva? For all we know it only exists in a few hard copies, especially given the highly sensitive nature of the information on it. I know Silva has a quasi deus ex machina status when it comes to computers and hacking, but there is no reason to believe that he had the list already before the events in Istanbul. Actually, he could have easily triggered the theft of the list because he could not get it through hacking.

    Given that Silva can hack MI6's mainframe, to the point he can read Bond's fitness notes and even create an explosion at headquarters gives me reason to believe that he could easily get the encrypted list without needing Patrice to go steal it from a laptop in Istanbul.

    When I see the film, now, the entire PTS is an exercise in futility on Bond's part, and he doesn't even realize it. It's sadly ironic. Some might say that this makes it a bad script or film, but I think it makes it a better film. It illustrates new world / old world clashes, similarly to what happens in the end. Great films tend to have beginnings and endings that mirror or juxtapose each other. SF is no different.

    It saddens me when Bond fans don't see just how bloody brilliant SF is.

    Well, not quite. If the laptop had no way of connecting to the internet (no wifi /bluetooth/network connections possible) he would've needed Patrice, and in state security it isn't uncommon to use devises like that in that manner. And another problem, unless Silva hadn't cared who MI6 send after him, how did he know Bond was still alive? Even MI6 didn't know....

    That has always been my thought.
    bondjames wrote: »
    I agree that Silva is a great villain. Brilliant lines and Bardem delivers them all superbly

    "They tortured me. And I protected your secrets. I protected you. But they made me suffer. And suffer. And suffer. Until I realized it was you who betrayed me. So, I had only one thing left. My cyanide capsule in my back left molar. You remember, right? So I broke the tooth and bit into the capsule.And it burned all my insides. But I didn't die. Life clung to me like a disease. And then I understood why I had survived. I needed to look in your eyes one last time."

    Kind of like the Monster of Frankenstein, come to think of it.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,585
    CommanderRoss wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Do we know in SF if the list exists in any virtual form and if so if it can so easily be hacked, even by Silva? For all we know it only exists in a few hard copies, especially given the highly sensitive nature of the information on it. I know Silva has a quasi deus ex machina status when it comes to computers and hacking, but there is no reason to believe that he had the list already before the events in Istanbul. Actually, he could have easily triggered the theft of the list because he could not get it through hacking.

    Given that Silva can hack MI6's mainframe, to the point he can read Bond's fitness notes and even create an explosion at headquarters gives me reason to believe that he could easily get the encrypted list without needing Patrice to go steal it from a laptop in Istanbul.

    When I see the film, now, the entire PTS is an exercise in futility on Bond's part, and he doesn't even realize it. It's sadly ironic. Some might say that this makes it a bad script or film, but I think it makes it a better film. It illustrates new world / old world clashes, similarly to what happens in the end. Great films tend to have beginnings and endings that mirror or juxtapose each other. SF is no different.

    It saddens me when Bond fans don't see just how bloody brilliant SF is.

    Well, not quite. If the laptop had no way of connecting to the internet (no wifi /bluetooth/network connections possible) he would've needed Patrice, and in state security it isn't uncommon to use devises like that in that manner. And another problem, unless Silva hadn't cared who MI6 send after him, how did he know Bond was still alive? Even MI6 didn't know....

    1. I don't know that he did care. (Of course, SP has blown a lot of this out of the water, as it appears that Blofeld basically "oversaw" all of this?);
    2. Did Silva know he was still alive prior to M finding out? There is no evidence that he did.
    3. As for the computer, your comment is a fair one. But there are ways to pull info off hard drives even if they aren't "plugged in." This requires remote access, and it is entirely possible that the computer in Ronson's possession had remote booting capability. (Just a thought.)
  • GettlerGettler USA
    Posts: 326
    I still wonder what went down in that room before Patrice stole the drive. I imagine someone sold somebody out, or maybe Ronson was undercover.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,009
    I just wonder why they were in a hotel in the middle of Istanbul with a hard drive containing all the undercover names on it in the first place!

    Convenience for the writers to get the ball rolling no doubt. Sheer genius with P&W..!
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    A laptop with the plans for "Desert Storm" was left in the back of a taxi, so to be honest
    it can happen. :D
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