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Bond vs Bond

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  • GamesBond007GamesBond007 Golden Grotto
    Posts: 66
    Jazz007 wrote: »
    There are some good moments in the war room fight - the toy cannon firing at bond has a very legitimately creepy feel to it - but the sequence does feel a bit off at the same time. It does have a strange 'low budget tv-like' feel as @bondjames mentioned; plus, Bond should have been smart enough to know that shots to the head weren't working because of the armor and that Whitaker's legs, arms and torso are clearly exposed. There's also something about a grown man playing with toy soldiers that takes me out of the movie for a second. A Spaceballs-like moment.

    Still, Joe Don Baker was a better Whitaker than Wade.

    Bond did shoot at Whitaker's torso. Watch again. Whitaker had some sort of body armor under his uniform.

  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    TND >>TLD
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Though the plot to TLD isn't always the most thrilling (something about drugs and Afgahn freedom fighters and cellos) they do at least try to tell a spy story and John Barry's score gives the film class.

    The problem with TND is that it's all pretty much surface gloss. Some of the action is decent but there's not a lot to it in terms of substance.

    TLD is a film targeted primarily at adults, TND is a film aimed at teenagers.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    I've always been young at heart ;)
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    barryt007 wrote: »
    I've always been young at heart ;)

    Me too ;) But yet we both love FRWL, which is really an adult film through and through.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Oh yes...thats for sure !!
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    I do agree though that sometimes TLD is a bit flat and occasionally suffers from Glen's "TV movie" direction.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I do agree though that sometimes TLD is a bit flat and occasionally suffers from Glen's "TV movie" direction.

    And a certain 'you know who',that nearly makes the film unwatchable at times.

  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    The woman I can't stand in TLD is Caroline Bliss.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Aaah you know its a woman eh ? (of course you do,everyone does)
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Judging by how Bliss acts I could have mistaken her for a ditzy schoolgirl.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    bondjames wrote: »
    I just finished TND and was reasonably impressed with Brosnan in this film. I watched TLD yesterday, and was quite impressed with Dalton in that film as well.

    As was mentioned on another thread where these two were discussed yesterday, Brosnan is far more slick & stylish as Bond, while Dalton is more sincere & real. In TND, Brosnan gives a decent performance, and for the most part he avoids his acting tics (pain face, exaggerated facial expressions). One of the issues I've always had with his Bond though is that he seems quite slight, even though he's quite a tall chap. There's something rather unthreatening about his physique, voice and manner. Dalton on the other hand is a more sinister presence, and is more credible as a hardened agent.

    I can't really pick one actor over the other. They both bring different strengths, & I find in both cases that what one lacks the other delivers. Neither actor is fully convincing to me but both are quite watchable as Bond.

    That's an excellent summary and pretty much sums up how I feel about both as well. They are almost like yin and yang, aren't they? Of the two, it's always extremely difficult to pick which one I prefer.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Yes @pachazo, I never noticed that before actually, but while discussing the two actors in another thread I suddenly realized that these two films must be given a viewing because they are indeed yin and yang as you say.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited March 2017 Posts: 11,189
    I know I've got my issues with Dalton (I still think he's maybe a little underwhelming on camera next to Pierce) but there is more substance to his approach.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    @bondjames, I was actually referring to Dalton and Brosnan, not so much those specific films, but I see your point there as well.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2017 Posts: 23,883
    I got it @pachazo, and realized I should have clarified when I typed my earlier response. I did mean the actors as well as these two films, since both movies represent the two extremes of Bond entries (relatively stripped down spy thriller vs. high octane action spectacle). What I meant to say was these two films are essential viewing in order to capture the differences between these two actors.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    I don't think Dalton would have approved of the TND climax.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited March 2017 Posts: 11,189
    @barryt007, @bondjames.

    Your comments have made me watch a bit of both TLD and GE.

    In terms of Bond girl, there's no comparison between Kara and Natalya and who is the better actress.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2017 Posts: 23,883
    I hope you're leaning towards Scorupco @BAIN123.

    I have to say I didn't mind D'Abo on my last viewing of TLD. She's ok with the facial expressions and emotions actually. I just can't bear it when she opens her mouth. Perhaps if they'd worked on her delivery and accent I might have been more tolerant of her emotional & clingy antics. Still, I'm warming up to her.

    EDIT: Now that I think about it, a TLD/GE back to back combo would make interesting viewing actually. Both feature a new Bond. One is the last film dealing with Russians before the wall came down and the other is the first film (and interestingly, the last) dealing with Russians after the wall came down. They both feature Bond girls from behind the old Iron Curtain as well as Russian Generals. The Q & MP scenes are eerily similar, given both films introduce all the characters and the interplay.
  • Jazz007Jazz007 Minnesota
    Posts: 257
    GamesBond007 wrote: »
    Jazz007 wrote: »
    There are some good moments in the war room fight - the toy cannon firing at bond has a very legitimately creepy feel to it - but the sequence does feel a bit off at the same time. It does have a strange 'low budget tv-like' feel as @bondjames mentioned; plus, Bond should have been smart enough to know that shots to the head weren't working because of the armor and that Whitaker's legs, arms and torso are clearly exposed. There's also something about a grown man playing with toy soldiers that takes me out of the movie for a second. A Spaceballs-like moment.

    Still, Joe Don Baker was a better Whitaker than Wade.

    Bond did shoot at Whitaker's torso. Watch again. Whitaker had some sort of body armor under his uniform.

    That's a new one. Thanks to youtube, I can watch - Bond only shoots and hits Whitaker's gun/shield.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited March 2017 Posts: 11,189
    bondjames wrote: »
    I hope you're leaning towards Scorupco @BAIN123.

    I have to say I didn't mind D'Abo on my last viewing of TLD. She's ok with the facial expressions and emotions actually. I just can't bear it when she opens her mouth. Perhaps if they'd worked on her delivery and accent I might have been more tolerant of her emotional & clingy antics. Still, I'm warming up to her.

    EDIT: Now that I think about it, a TLD/GE back to back combo would make interesting viewing actually. Both feature a new Bond. One is the last film dealing with Russians before the wall came down and the other is the first film (and interestingly, the last) dealing with Russians after the wall came down. They both feature Bond girls from behind the old Iron Curtain as well as Russian Generals. The Q & MP scenes are eerily similar, given both films introduce all the characters and the interplay.

    Of course it's Scorrupco @bondjames. She's just a more engaging actress and I like the feistiness of her character (it feels more convincing than Carey Lowell's tough-gal performance in LTK). D'Abo just seems to have the same puppy-like look on her face a lot of the time.

    GoldenEye also seems to be directed with more panache and flair. Yes it's aged, but you get the sense they are going all-out to make it a "bigger" more contemporary film. It's faster paced and more dynamic, while TLD though well directed feels like its part of an ageing "old-guard". I can't really see Glen's version of the statue park scene being as memorable if I'm being honest.

    However, TLD does make far better use of actual locations. In GE there's a lot of obvious set work for the exterior shots.

    Bond-performance wise, i'm going to give the edge to Dalton. It seems like he's just got more stuff to play in the TLD. Broz is ok in GE but most of the meaty material seems to be given to the other actors. I will say though that, in part-response to @Milovy's comment the other day, the camera does seem more interested in Brosnan
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Completely agree with your comments @BAIN123. I'm partial to a bit of intelligence & feistiness personally, and perhaps that clouds my judgement a little, but there's no doubt that Scorupco delivers in GE. I agree with your assessment of Dalton vs. Brosnan in the respective films as well. Location work is indeed much better in TLD, except I really like the Monaco sequences in GE.

    Thanks for giving me the idea of a TLD / GE combo. I'll have to do that in a few months.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited March 2017 Posts: 11,189
    The early shots of Bond looking out over the water in Monaco and the shot a short while later of the Tiger flying off over the bay are probably the best uses of locations in GE. Later on, the locations look more like they belong in Home and Away.

    ge8-cl2-trousers.jpg
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2017 Posts: 23,883
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    The early shots of Bond looking out over the water in Monaco and the shot a short while later of the Tiger flying off over the bay are probably the best uses of locations in GE.
    Not to mention the Aston/Ferrari chase & casino sequence!
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Later on, the locations look more like they belong in Home and Away.
    Agreed. The budget constraints were evident later. Still, I really like the way they did the satellite sequence at the end. It seemed like Bond and Alec were really up there on that dish. Also, despite the cheap locales later on, I'm never disappointed because the cast more than makes up for it.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited March 2017 Posts: 11,189
    The cast in GE is mainly excellent.

    I always find the film very entertaining too.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited March 2017 Posts: 13,978
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    TLD looms far above TND.
    Don't get me wrong, I like them both, but there's a world of difference, TLD is a spy thriller, TND is an action film, but a glossy one.

    When I watched GE last year, I said it then, but it looks so dull and grey. Even in cuba, it lacks.... something. The two films it is sandwiched between look much better. It really hasn't aged well. Then then there is GE's cherry on the cake, stereo feminism... yay. Samantha Bond is my least favourite Moneypenny.

    1. Maxwell (1962-1969)
    2. Bliss / Harris
    3. Maxwell (1971-1985)
    4. Salem
    5. Bond

  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    I agree that the GE Cuba shots could have been better photographed.
  • GamesBond007GamesBond007 Golden Grotto
    Posts: 66
    @Jazz007 Might want to watch again. Bond's first 3 shots are at Whitaker's torso moving up to his shoulder. Once this fails he tries for the armor plate over his weapon.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Is it an armour plate? I thought it was a bullet magnet.
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