The unfair criticism

24

Comments

  • Posts: 15,122
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Another bit of unfair criticism, I find, is aimed at the great Roger Moore.

    Moore is often called the 'old' Bond and the 'funny' Bond.
    Personally, I don't think age issues really begin to show until AVTAK, and a lot may have to do with what I presume was a slightly failed face lift. ;-)

    As for the funny Bond, I just think Moore delivered his funny lines less cool than Connery but more jokey and that's the thing. I don't think the scripts written for him were so much more comedic.

    I also think Moore was very good in the more dramatic moments, when he remembers Tracy for instance. He did not spend his whole tenure cracking jokes.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,279
    Ludovico wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Another bit of unfair criticism, I find, is aimed at the great Roger Moore.

    Moore is often called the 'old' Bond and the 'funny' Bond.
    Personally, I don't think age issues really begin to show until AVTAK, and a lot may have to do with what I presume was a slightly failed face lift. ;-)

    As for the funny Bond, I just think Moore delivered his funny lines less cool than Connery but more jokey and that's the thing. I don't think the scripts written for him were so much more comedic.

    I also think Moore was very good in the more dramatic moments, when he remembers Tracy for instance. He did not spend his whole tenure cracking jokes.

    Indeed not and Roger Moore is a very underrated and good actor. He's my second favourite Bond after Dalton and he's a gentleman in real life too.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    Its unusual to have Dalton and Moore so close together, fighting it out in ones rankings, hey @Draggers? Well, the general movie consensus anywho...
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited July 2015 Posts: 18,279
    royale65 wrote: »
    Its unusual to have Dalton and Moore so close together, fighting it out in ones rankings, hey @Draggers? Well, the general movie consensus anywho...

    Yes, I'm conflicted and strange like that. Roger Moore used to be my favourite in fact and I still hold him in high regard as he enormously likeable. I think they each bring different components of the character together. Still, I love all of the Bonds.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Agreed
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Another bit of unfair criticism, I find, is aimed at the great Roger Moore.

    Moore is often called the 'old' Bond and the 'funny' Bond.
    Personally, I don't think age issues really begin to show until AVTAK, and a lot may have to do with what I presume was a slightly failed face lift. ;-)

    As for the funny Bond, I just think Moore delivered his funny lines less cool than Connery but more jokey and that's the thing. I don't think the scripts written for him were so much more comedic.

    Agreed!

    Seconded. Moore is nothing if not a Saint.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    royale65 wrote: »
    Its unusual to have Dalton and Moore so close together, fighting it out in ones rankings, hey @Draggers? Well, the general movie consensus anywho...

    Yes, I'm conflicted and strange like that. Roger Moore used to be my favourite in fact and I still hold him in high regard as he enormously likeable. I think they each bring different components of the character together. Still, I love all of the Bonds.

    Quite. They both bring interesting traits to the Bondian table. In my rankings, Dalton is third, just ahead of Moore.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,279
    royale65 wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    royale65 wrote: »
    Its unusual to have Dalton and Moore so close together, fighting it out in ones rankings, hey @Draggers? Well, the general movie consensus anywho...

    Yes, I'm conflicted and strange like that. Roger Moore used to be my favourite in fact and I still hold him in high regard as he enormously likeable. I think they each bring different components of the character together. Still, I love all of the Bonds.

    Quite. They both bring interesting traits to the Bondian table. In my rankings, Dalton is third, just ahead of Moore.

    I'm guessing that Sean Connery and Daniel Craig are in the top positions then?
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    Connery and Brosnan!
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,279
    royale65 wrote: »
    Connery and Brosnan!

    I see. Good choices all the same.
  • Posts: 15,122
    Some unfair criticism I have read from time to time by non Bond fans or people who know nothing of cinema: FRWL is boring for whatever reason.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited July 2015 Posts: 4,399
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Some unfair criticism I have read from time to time by non Bond fans or people who know nothing of cinema: FRWL is boring for whatever reason.

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  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Goldfinger is a lousy movie because Bond isn t involved in much action.

    This is one of the most stupid nagnagnags around here.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Goldfinger is a lousy movie because Bond isn t involved in much action.

    This is one of the most stupid nagnagnags around here.

    +1
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    I so agree. And Connery is the epitome of cool in GF!
  • Posts: 11,189
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I so agree. And Connery is the epitome of cool in GF!

    I think it's possibly Connery's best performance too.

  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    Connery's most serious performance: DN
    Connery's most confident performance: GF
    Connery's most uber masculine performance: TB
    Connery's most 'I don't care, I'm just here to enjoy myself and crack jokes' performance: DAF
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,398
    Goldfinger is a lousy movie because Bond isn t involved in much action.

    This is one of the most stupid nagnagnags around here.

    I would love to hear your review of Goldfinger. You seem very fond of that film.

  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    Roger Moore or "the Moore era" gets blamed for derailing the series with everything silly and/or outrageous. Yes, it was possibly taken to a new level (at times) during his tenure but this was the direction the series was headed in before he got there.

    Octopussy is considered to be the worst film in the series simply because Bond dresses like a clown.

    I agree that Dalton gets unfairly blamed for the series almost coming to an end.

    Pierce Brosnan is a better actor than some people give him credit for.

    Any good qualities that Quantum of Solace possesses are completely disregarded because it's the worst movie ever.
  • Posts: 15,122
    Goldfinger is a lousy movie because Bond isn t involved in much action.

    This is one of the most stupid nagnagnags around here.

    I don't think GF is a lousy movie but it is one of its flaws. Not so much in the novel.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,398
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Goldfinger is a lousy movie because Bond isn t involved in much action.

    This is one of the most stupid nagnagnags around here.

    I don't think GF is a lousy movie but it is one of its flaws. Not so much in the novel.

    I thought Felix rescues Bond with the army in the novel? I wouldn't call that Bond getting involved.
  • edited July 2015 Posts: 15,122
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Goldfinger is a lousy movie because Bond isn t involved in much action.

    This is one of the most stupid nagnagnags around here.

    I don't think GF is a lousy movie but it is one of its flaws. Not so much in the novel.

    I thought Felix rescues Bond with the army in the novel? I wouldn't call that Bond getting involved.

    He does act a little bit more, even from early on in the novel. Finding what Goldfinger is up to, it's his initiative, for instance.

    Other unfair criticism:

    -The water scheme in QOS is bad/boring. Was it bad in Once Upon a Time in the West? In Chinatown? In Manon des Sources?

    -That critic who said SF was the most overrated movie of all time. Of. All. Time. Of all the history of cinema. This man has no sense of perspective.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Ludovico wrote: »
    -That critic who said SF was the most overrated movie of all time. Of. All. Time. Of all the history of cinema. This man has no sense of perspective.

    You're right. He's only partially correct.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Other unfair criticism:

    -The water scheme in QOS is bad/boring. Was it bad in Once Upon a Time in the West? In Chinatown? In Manon des Sources?

    You're right, it's not bad. It's just executed poorly. If you're going to have something that nuanced in a Bond movie you have to give it the relevant exposition and screentime. There's no tangibility, just arty shots of dripping taps and wisened Bolivians. Imagine GF's plan being a vague background noise that comes to nothing. Doesn't work. It's my main problem with QoS, there isn't really a plot.
  • edited July 2015 Posts: 7,653
    Ludovico wrote: »

    -The water scheme in QOS is bad/boring. Was it bad in Once Upon a Time in the West? In Chinatown? In Manon des Sources?

    Compared with those movies it is a piece of s***, those three are brilliant executed movies that are all classics.

    The water theme in QoB was the least of my problems with the movie.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    I don't think the water theme in QOS was particularly bad. It's relevant, of the times and something I can see a large organisation like Quantum planning ahead. Also, they don't stretch it out too far. It helps to move the plot forward but in the end Bond and Camille are on a vendetta mission; I'm not sure taking out Medrano and Greene makes a lot of difference for the good people of Bolivia. Another government, another reign of corruption.

    Another bit of unfair criticism:
    David Arnold wrote terrible scores for the Bond films.

    Here's the thing. Of course Arnold is no Barry. Then again, no-one can reach the quality of John Barry's music. So right there, it's unfair to say Arnold was no Barry; that's just a given. But, I think Arnold wrote perfectly acceptable and adequate music. Sure, not everything works well. I'm particularly upset over his recording experiments for DAD. But his music for CR and QOS is quite good IMO.

    Again, I don't think Arnold is the best thing since Barry but the way some people keep claiming that his music was *awful* and detrimental to the alleged failure of the Brosnans, is unfair IMO.
  • Posts: 15,122
    RC7 wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Other unfair criticism:

    -The water scheme in QOS is bad/boring. Was it bad in Once Upon a Time in the West? In Chinatown? In Manon des Sources?

    You're right, it's not bad. It's just executed poorly. If you're going to have something that nuanced in a Bond movie you have to give it the relevant exposition and screentime. There's no tangibility, just arty shots of dripping taps and wisened Bolivians. Imagine GF's plan being a vague background noise that comes to nothing. Doesn't work. It's my main problem with QoS, there isn't really a plot.

    It is not very well executed, I will give you that, but intrinsically it is a very good idea, hence saying it is one of the flaws of QOS is unfair criticism. I may add that the water plot is essential to the movie: without it, Quantum would merely be running away from Bond's vendetta, always on the defensive. (Come to think of it, Sanchez's schemes in LTK have the same utility. Without them, he'd be a moving target for two hours.)
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Goldfinger is a lousy movie because Bond isn t involved in much action.

    This is one of the most stupid nagnagnags around here.

    I would love to hear your review of Goldfinger. You seem very fond of that film.

    I am, but a full review? Too lazy.

    Here is a mini review: Ilikeitalot!
  • Posts: 7,653

    review of Goldfinger

    Here is a mini review: Ilikeitalot!

    As some famous composer once said: "Nobody does it better"

    Hard to disprove your review.

  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,215
    I like Moore a great deal. The Spy Who Loved Me is I my top 5, possibly 3. I think his age started to show in FYEO. He was also a victim of some horrible hair choices.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Ludovico wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Other unfair criticism:

    -The water scheme in QOS is bad/boring. Was it bad in Once Upon a Time in the West? In Chinatown? In Manon des Sources?

    You're right, it's not bad. It's just executed poorly. If you're going to have something that nuanced in a Bond movie you have to give it the relevant exposition and screentime. There's no tangibility, just arty shots of dripping taps and wisened Bolivians. Imagine GF's plan being a vague background noise that comes to nothing. Doesn't work. It's my main problem with QoS, there isn't really a plot.

    It is not very well executed, I will give you that, but intrinsically it is a very good idea, hence saying it is one of the flaws of QOS is unfair criticism.

    I still disagree. It's a good idea in principle, but doesn't translate and as such is a flaw. It's like saying a bad song you wrote was good in principal and should be respected for that reason. Doesn't really work. Some of the ideas in DAD are actually decent on paper, but executed very badly.

    Unfair criticism for me - John Glen is a poor director. Of his five films I've heard high praise in various camps for at least four of his five entries. I personally love AVTAK, but I'll accept that the general consensus is that it's lacking. Taking that into account we're left with FYEO, OP, TLD, LTK. That is a strong set of films imo. I've heard enormous praise for all four individually.
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