Where does Bond go after Craig?

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Comments

  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,157
    OHMSS was far from a flop at the time, though, and George is a genuinely funny bloke - even with the same or similar scripts, the lighter, more humorous tone of the '70s films would've suited him and there'd've been no doubting the action scenes. Maybe no safari suits either...I wish he'd done at least two more.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,603
    GL’s exit a “tragedy”? That’s a laugh.

    The series would have crashed and burned if he stuck around.

    I seriously doubt that, considering the series nearly crashed and burned in the early 70’s on at least two separate occasions. Say what you will about Lazenby, but he would’ve eventually grown into the role, and made it his own. Hell the action scenes and sense of spectacle found in films like DAF, LALD, and TMWTGG pale in comparison to those found in OHMSS.

    He wasn’t directing or writing them though, the action wasn’t down to him. He was good at the fight stuff but he just wasn’t a star, it went the right way.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,918
    Yes but with Lazenby on board I expect director Peter Hunt, editor John Glen, and screenwriter Richard Maibaum would continue to work as a team. Some golden moments expected from that.

    But there's no arguing with success and the success of Eon since 1969. Change the timestream then, and the franchise likely would have played out and ended some time ago.

  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited January 2022 Posts: 6,382
    mtm wrote: »
    GL’s exit a “tragedy”? That’s a laugh.

    The series would have crashed and burned if he stuck around.

    I seriously doubt that, considering the series nearly crashed and burned in the early 70’s on at least two separate occasions. Say what you will about Lazenby, but he would’ve eventually grown into the role, and made it his own. Hell the action scenes and sense of spectacle found in films like DAF, LALD, and TMWTGG pale in comparison to those found in OHMSS.

    He wasn’t directing or writing them though, the action wasn’t down to him. He was good at the fight stuff but he just wasn’t a star, it went the right way.

    I agree with this. I'm as disappointed as anyone that there was never a proper follow-up to OHMSS, but Lazenby, even if he stayed on, was a casting mistake.

    He might have lasted two or three films, but that's it. So it would be a Dalton-to-Brosnan casting scenario, except more dire.
  • Posts: 1,650
    mtm wrote: »
    delfloria wrote: »
    I hear that the new film series starts in the Aston Martin as Madeline begins telling her daughter about one of James Bond's many adventures, "Property of a Lady".

    Or we discover that ‘Madeline’ is often shortened to ‘Mata’, and we start on the adventures of Mata Bond…
    mtm wrote: »
    delfloria wrote: »
    I hear that the new film series starts in the Aston Martin as Madeline begins telling her daughter about one of James Bond's many adventures, "Property of a Lady".

    Or we discover that ‘Madeline’ is often shortened to ‘Mata’, and we start on the adventures of Mata Bond…

    Joanna Pettet ! Oh the films DEFINITELY could have used more Joanna Pettet !
  • Posts: 1,650
    Bring back Joanna Pettet NOW !
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited January 2022 Posts: 16,603
    Yes but with Lazenby on board I expect director Peter Hunt, editor John Glen, and screenwriter Richard Maibaum would continue to work as a team. Some golden moments expected from that.

    Why would that have happened? I’ve never heard any suggestion that Hunt didn’t direct any more because Lazenby wasn’t involved. In fact he actually directed more films starring Roger Moore that he did with Lazenby.
  • Posts: 1,650
    Perhaps your last sentence was about John Glen. As for Peter Hunt, OHMSS was the only Bond film he directed, and the last Bond on which he worked at all. He was offered more, but declined.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,603
    Since62 wrote: »
    Perhaps your last sentence was about John Glen. As for Peter Hunt, OHMSS was the only Bond film he directed, and the last Bond on which he worked at all. He was offered more, but declined.

    I said films, not specifically Bond films. Peter Hunt directed Shout At The Devil and Gold, both starring Roger Moore. If he preferred to direct films starring Lazenby than Moore he had a funny way of showing it! :D
  • edited January 2022 Posts: 2,296
    mtm wrote: »
    GL’s exit a “tragedy”? That’s a laugh.

    The series would have crashed and burned if he stuck around.

    I seriously doubt that, considering the series nearly crashed and burned in the early 70’s on at least two separate occasions. Say what you will about Lazenby, but he would’ve eventually grown into the role, and made it his own. Hell the action scenes and sense of spectacle found in films like DAF, LALD, and TMWTGG pale in comparison to those found in OHMSS.

    He wasn’t directing or writing them though, the action wasn’t down to him. He was good at the fight stuff but he just wasn’t a star, it went the right way.

    Sean Connery and Daniel Craig weren’t stars when they first started playing Bond, they were well respected actors, but didn’t have that star power until they started playing Bond. I’m sure had Lazenby acted more professionally on set, and had actually stuck around, he would’ve gotten that star power, and could very well have been the best Bond. I’d say the action is largely down to Lazenby’s physicality and prowess, in conjunction with Peter Hunt’s filming, and John Glen’s editing. I agree with one of the posts above that had Lazenby stayed, Peter Hunt would’ve remained as well, and it’s the loss of Hunt that really breaks a lot of the 1970’s Bond films. Gone are the kinetic action scenes of the 60’s Bond, and in their place are slow, poorly executed, and poorly edited action sequences that pale in comparison to what the series had brought before. Lazenby was also much more vulnerable than both Connery and Moore, and in the socially conscious era of the late 60’s and early 70’s, an era in which on screen heroes had become much tougher, harder edged, and brutal, Lazenby’s Bond would’ve fit perfectly, and the films wouldn’t have felt as if they were keeping up with the trends of the day, which is an issue that has plagued the series post OHMSS, and still somewhat plagues the franchise even to this day. I’m not here to say Lazenby is the best Bond, that EON hasn’t had its triumphs since 1969, or that Bond died after OHMSS. Because clearly that didn’t happen, and Lazenby sits at the bottom of my ranking of the actors, but I do love him as Bond, and him being in last place is because he stupidly chose not to do more, thus how could I put his one performance as Bond above the other great performances we’ve gotten from Connery, Moore, Dalton, Brosnan, and Craig. But I strongly think had he and Hunt continued, this franchise wouldn’t have nearly died on two separate occasions, and perhaps the series wouldn’t have resorted to borrowing other film trends as much as it has.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,382
    Okay, let's say Lazenby didn't quit after OHMSS (which was not an unreasonable choice in 1969, as much as it looks dumb now).

    Dalton in TLD was much better received than Lazenby, and Dalton lasted only two films. (Finances also derailed Dalton, but Brosnan was ultimately more popular.)

    Lazenby would probably have suffered a similar fate after DAF or LALD.

    It's a strange thing, which actors take off as Bond and which don't. My bet would be that Lazenby wouldn't.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited January 2022 Posts: 16,603
    mtm wrote: »
    GL’s exit a “tragedy”? That’s a laugh.

    The series would have crashed and burned if he stuck around.

    I seriously doubt that, considering the series nearly crashed and burned in the early 70’s on at least two separate occasions. Say what you will about Lazenby, but he would’ve eventually grown into the role, and made it his own. Hell the action scenes and sense of spectacle found in films like DAF, LALD, and TMWTGG pale in comparison to those found in OHMSS.

    He wasn’t directing or writing them though, the action wasn’t down to him. He was good at the fight stuff but he just wasn’t a star, it went the right way.

    Sean Connery and Daniel Craig weren’t stars when they first started playing Bond, they were well respected actors, but didn’t have that star power until they started playing Bond.

    Of course they did: that's why they got cast as Bond. They were both having successful careers.
    They took off from there, sure, that's the exposure of Bond, but they had star charisma in them and that's what the producers spotted. Lazenby never did- they thought Bond was a big enough draw in itself and quickly decided that was an error. Call in Connery.
    I agree with one of the posts above that had Lazenby stayed, Peter Hunt would’ve remained as well

    What are you basing that on? As I say, Hunt directed more films with Roger Moore than he did with Lazenby so the signs don't seem to be that he wanted to work with Lazenby more.
    But I strongly think had he and Hunt continued, this franchise wouldn’t have nearly died on two separate occasions, and perhaps the series wouldn’t have resorted to borrowing other film trends as much as it has.

    That's another quite big reach, I think.
  • edited January 2022 Posts: 2,296
    echo wrote: »
    Okay, let's say Lazenby didn't quit after OHMSS (which was not an unreasonable choice in 1969, as much as it looks dumb now).

    Dalton in TLD was much better received than Lazenby, and Dalton lasted only two films. (Finances also derailed Dalton, but Brosnan was ultimately more popular.)

    Lazenby would probably have suffered a similar fate after DAF or LALD.

    It's a strange thing, which actors take off as Bond and which don't. My bet would be that Lazenby wouldn't.

    The difference between Lazenby and Dalton was that audiences weren’t ready for that darker, more brutal Bond that Dalton portrayed. They’d just come off of 7 lighthearted adventures with Roger Moore, and to have Dalton put them off slightly. Another issue with that comes down to why Dalton chose to leave. Everyone says MGM executives wanted Dalton out and Brosnan in, and I’m sure that was true to some extent, but I doubt Dalton was ever going to be doing more than 3 Bond films. He would’ve came back for Goldeneye if he didn’t have the commitment of at least doing more films after that, which is why he declined to return. I do think Lazenby would’ve taken off in the role if he had stuck around though, I mentioned earlier that he would’ve perfectly matched the other darker, more socially conscious heroes of the late 60’s and early 70’s.
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    GL’s exit a “tragedy”? That’s a laugh.

    The series would have crashed and burned if he stuck around.

    I seriously doubt that, considering the series nearly crashed and burned in the early 70’s on at least two separate occasions. Say what you will about Lazenby, but he would’ve eventually grown into the role, and made it his own. Hell the action scenes and sense of spectacle found in films like DAF, LALD, and TMWTGG pale in comparison to those found in OHMSS.

    He wasn’t directing or writing them though, the action wasn’t down to him. He was good at the fight stuff but he just wasn’t a star, it went the right way.

    Sean Connery and Daniel Craig weren’t stars when they first started playing Bond, they were well respected actors, but didn’t have that star power until they started playing Bond.

    Of course they did: that's why they got cast as Bond. They were both having successful careers.
    They took off from there, sure, that's the exposure of Bond, but they had star charisma in them and that's what the producers spotted. Lazenby never did.
    I agree with one of the posts above that had Lazenby stayed, Peter Hunt would’ve remained as well

    What are you basing that on? As I say, Hunt directed more films with Roger Moore than he did with Lazenby.
    But I strongly think had he and Hunt continued, this franchise wouldn’t have nearly died on two separate occasions, and perhaps the series wouldn’t have resorted to borrowing other film trends as much as it has.

    That's another quite big reach, I think.

    If that’s true, then list the big box office successes that both Connery and Craig were in before Bond. You’d probably have about one or two from each actor and that’s it. They weren’t big movie stars, they were relatively unknown, respected actors. If they were big stars when they were cast then Connery and Craig would’ve started off with humongous salaries for their first films.

    And I base the Peter Hunt quote off of something that the man actually said himself. He’s quoted as saying that had Lazenby stuck around, he would’ve returned for Diamonds are Forever.

    And there’s no reach about what I’ve said, because I can list at least 10 different occasions where the franchise has riffed off of other films/genres, even up to today.
  • Posts: 1,650
    mtm wrote: »
    Since62 wrote: »
    Perhaps your last sentence was about John Glen. As for Peter Hunt, OHMSS was the only Bond film he directed, and the last Bond on which he worked at all. He was offered more, but declined.

    I said films, not specifically Bond films. Peter Hunt directed Shout At The Devil and Gold, both starring Roger Moore. If he preferred to direct films starring Lazenby than Moore he had a funny way of showing it! :D

    Doh ! I stepped RIGHT INTO THAT !
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited January 2022 Posts: 16,603
    Since62 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Since62 wrote: »
    Perhaps your last sentence was about John Glen. As for Peter Hunt, OHMSS was the only Bond film he directed, and the last Bond on which he worked at all. He was offered more, but declined.

    I said films, not specifically Bond films. Peter Hunt directed Shout At The Devil and Gold, both starring Roger Moore. If he preferred to direct films starring Lazenby than Moore he had a funny way of showing it! :D

    Doh ! I stepped RIGHT INTO THAT !

    Well I wasn't trying to trick anyone, I did say he 'didn't direct any more', meaning Bond films.
    echo wrote: »
    Okay, let's say Lazenby didn't quit after OHMSS (which was not an unreasonable choice in 1969, as much as it looks dumb now).

    Dalton in TLD was much better received than Lazenby, and Dalton lasted only two films. (Finances also derailed Dalton, but Brosnan was ultimately more popular.)

    Lazenby would probably have suffered a similar fate after DAF or LALD.

    It's a strange thing, which actors take off as Bond and which don't. My bet would be that Lazenby wouldn't.

    The difference between Lazenby and Dalton was that audiences weren’t ready for that darker, more brutal Bond that Dalton portrayed. They’d just come off of 7 lighthearted adventures with Roger Moore, and to have Dalton put them off slightly. Another issue with that comes down to why Dalton chose to leave. Everyone says MGM executives wanted Dalton out and Brosnan in, and I’m sure that was true to some extent, but I doubt Dalton was ever going to be doing more than 3 Bond films. He would’ve came back for Goldeneye if he didn’t have the commitment of at least doing more films after that, which is why he declined to return.

    That's the nice version of the story, but the truth seems to be that MGM didn't want him back and he didn't actually get the chance to decline.
  • Posts: 1,650
    By the way, having been around long enough to witness it all in real time, it is quite true that Lazenby's choice was not at all incomprehensible. Bond was not cool as he's been since. Had George not listened only to the counsel of friends advising him to depart, or had George pointed out to the producers some obvious things about societal changes, they might have addressed it in a way still appropriate for Bond, and moved on together. Oh well, didn't happen. As for the tonal change which stated in DAF, it was very well received partly because Connery had returned. (Besides, there was a shift starting in YOLT, paused for OHMSS, resumed with Connery in DAF) It was great to have Sean back, even for just one more and then done, and it was a fun film-going experience.
  • edited January 2022 Posts: 2,296
    mtm wrote: »
    Since62 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Since62 wrote: »
    Perhaps your last sentence was about John Glen. As for Peter Hunt, OHMSS was the only Bond film he directed, and the last Bond on which he worked at all. He was offered more, but declined.

    I said films, not specifically Bond films. Peter Hunt directed Shout At The Devil and Gold, both starring Roger Moore. If he preferred to direct films starring Lazenby than Moore he had a funny way of showing it! :D

    Doh ! I stepped RIGHT INTO THAT !

    Well I wasn't trying to trick anyone, I did say he 'didn't direct any more', meaning Bond films.
    echo wrote: »
    Okay, let's say Lazenby didn't quit after OHMSS (which was not an unreasonable choice in 1969, as much as it looks dumb now).

    Dalton in TLD was much better received than Lazenby, and Dalton lasted only two films. (Finances also derailed Dalton, but Brosnan was ultimately more popular.)

    Lazenby would probably have suffered a similar fate after DAF or LALD.

    It's a strange thing, which actors take off as Bond and which don't. My bet would be that Lazenby wouldn't.

    The difference between Lazenby and Dalton was that audiences weren’t ready for that darker, more brutal Bond that Dalton portrayed. They’d just come off of 7 lighthearted adventures with Roger Moore, and to have Dalton put them off slightly. Another issue with that comes down to why Dalton chose to leave. Everyone says MGM executives wanted Dalton out and Brosnan in, and I’m sure that was true to some extent, but I doubt Dalton was ever going to be doing more than 3 Bond films. He would’ve came back for Goldeneye if he didn’t have the commitment of at least doing more films after that, which is why he declined to return.

    That's the nice version of the story, but the truth seems to be that MGM didn't want him back and he didn't actually get the chance to decline.

    I’d like to have a source on that truth, because I’m going to take what Dalton himself says over anyone else.
    Since62 wrote: »
    As for the tonal change which stated in DAF, it was very well received partly because Connery had returned. (Besides, there was a shift starting in YOLT, paused for OHMSS, resumed with Connery in DAF) It was great to have Sean back, even for just one more and then done, and it was a fun film-going experience.

    I’d argue that the tonal shift actually began in Goldfinger with the hiring of Guy Hamilton.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited January 2022 Posts: 16,603
    mtm wrote: »
    Since62 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Since62 wrote: »
    Perhaps your last sentence was about John Glen. As for Peter Hunt, OHMSS was the only Bond film he directed, and the last Bond on which he worked at all. He was offered more, but declined.

    I said films, not specifically Bond films. Peter Hunt directed Shout At The Devil and Gold, both starring Roger Moore. If he preferred to direct films starring Lazenby than Moore he had a funny way of showing it! :D

    Doh ! I stepped RIGHT INTO THAT !

    Well I wasn't trying to trick anyone, I did say he 'didn't direct any more', meaning Bond films.
    echo wrote: »
    Okay, let's say Lazenby didn't quit after OHMSS (which was not an unreasonable choice in 1969, as much as it looks dumb now).

    Dalton in TLD was much better received than Lazenby, and Dalton lasted only two films. (Finances also derailed Dalton, but Brosnan was ultimately more popular.)

    Lazenby would probably have suffered a similar fate after DAF or LALD.

    It's a strange thing, which actors take off as Bond and which don't. My bet would be that Lazenby wouldn't.

    The difference between Lazenby and Dalton was that audiences weren’t ready for that darker, more brutal Bond that Dalton portrayed. They’d just come off of 7 lighthearted adventures with Roger Moore, and to have Dalton put them off slightly. Another issue with that comes down to why Dalton chose to leave. Everyone says MGM executives wanted Dalton out and Brosnan in, and I’m sure that was true to some extent, but I doubt Dalton was ever going to be doing more than 3 Bond films. He would’ve came back for Goldeneye if he didn’t have the commitment of at least doing more films after that, which is why he declined to return.

    That's the nice version of the story, but the truth seems to be that MGM didn't want him back and he didn't actually get the chance to decline.

    I’d like to have a source on that truth, because I’m going to take what Dalton himself says over anyone else.

    It's been covered lots of times on here: read 'Some Kind of Hero', the excellent book covering the production of all Bond movies. They speak to the MGM executives who confirm that they didn't want him back.
    Dalton wouldn't be a great unbiased source for this: obviously he (most probably his agent) wouldn't want it to sound like he was ditched. Why on earth wouldn't he want to do more Bond movies? Look at the rubbish he went on to make in the 90s. He was desperate to star in The Beautician and The Beast?
  • edited January 2022 Posts: 2,296
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Since62 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Since62 wrote: »
    Perhaps your last sentence was about John Glen. As for Peter Hunt, OHMSS was the only Bond film he directed, and the last Bond on which he worked at all. He was offered more, but declined.

    I said films, not specifically Bond films. Peter Hunt directed Shout At The Devil and Gold, both starring Roger Moore. If he preferred to direct films starring Lazenby than Moore he had a funny way of showing it! :D

    Doh ! I stepped RIGHT INTO THAT !

    Well I wasn't trying to trick anyone, I did say he 'didn't direct any more', meaning Bond films.
    echo wrote: »
    Okay, let's say Lazenby didn't quit after OHMSS (which was not an unreasonable choice in 1969, as much as it looks dumb now).

    Dalton in TLD was much better received than Lazenby, and Dalton lasted only two films. (Finances also derailed Dalton, but Brosnan was ultimately more popular.)

    Lazenby would probably have suffered a similar fate after DAF or LALD.

    It's a strange thing, which actors take off as Bond and which don't. My bet would be that Lazenby wouldn't.

    The difference between Lazenby and Dalton was that audiences weren’t ready for that darker, more brutal Bond that Dalton portrayed. They’d just come off of 7 lighthearted adventures with Roger Moore, and to have Dalton put them off slightly. Another issue with that comes down to why Dalton chose to leave. Everyone says MGM executives wanted Dalton out and Brosnan in, and I’m sure that was true to some extent, but I doubt Dalton was ever going to be doing more than 3 Bond films. He would’ve came back for Goldeneye if he didn’t have the commitment of at least doing more films after that, which is why he declined to return.

    That's the nice version of the story, but the truth seems to be that MGM didn't want him back and he didn't actually get the chance to decline.

    I’d like to have a source on that truth, because I’m going to take what Dalton himself says over anyone else.

    It's been covered lots of times on here: read 'Some Kind of Hero', the excellent book covering the production of all Bond movies. They speak to the MGM executives who confirm that they didn't want him back.
    Dalton wouldn't be a great unbiased source for this: obviously he (most probably his agent) wouldn't want it to sound like he was ditched. Why on earth wouldn't he want to do more Bond movies? Look at the rubbish he went on to make in the 90s. He was desperate to star in The Beautician and The Beast?

    I’ll have to take a look into it. By all means if I’m wrong then fair enough I’m wrong, but I just took Dalton’s word himself. There’s an excellent interview he did with Vanity Fair about Penny Dreadful, and opening up about his decision to leave the franchise, and it made me understand why he chose not to come back. I’m sure that MGM story is also true though, film executives have always been incredibly slimy. Seems to me like the real reason is all murky and not clear enough, much like why Lazenby chose to leave.

    And to answer your question, he’s stated that he hoped he would’ve taken the best elements of his first two films, combine them into his third, then leave. My guess is he didn’t want to keep playing the role into his 50’s, this is also the same man who turned down an audition for Bond at 25 because he felt like he was too young, it’s out of love and respect for Fleming’s creation, which is why he’s the perfect embodiment of Fleming’s Bond.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited January 2022 Posts: 6,382
    I love Dalton in the role, but here in the US, he was always seen as the runner-up to Brosnan. He just never caught on with audiences.

    I don't know who bungled the Brosnan/TLD announcement/contractual negotiations, but poor Dalton was the collateral damage.

    Studios don't have a problem keeping on stars they don't like, so long as they're popular.
  • edited January 2022 Posts: 2,296
    echo wrote: »
    I love Dalton in the role, but here in the US, he was always seen as the runner-up to Brosnan. He just never caught on with audiences.

    I don't know who bungled the Brosnan/TLD announcement/contractual negotiations, but poor Dalton was the collateral damage.

    Studios don't have a problem keeping on stars they don't like, so long as they're popular.

    I’ll agree with that, I think everyone hyped themselves up for Brosnan that they might’ve been disappointed that Dalton ended up with the part. Sad because I’m somebody who loves what both of them did. This could also go onto explain why Goldeneye was such a phenomenon when it came out in 95.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,217
    GL’s exit a “tragedy”? That’s a laugh.

    The series would have crashed and burned if he stuck around.

    I seriously doubt that, considering the series nearly crashed and burned in the early 70’s on at least two separate occasions. Say what you will about Lazenby, but he would’ve eventually grown into the role, and made it his own. Hell the action scenes and sense of spectacle found in films like DAF, LALD, and TMWTGG pale in comparison to those found in OHMSS.

    That’s assuming audiences are taken to him.
  • edited January 2022 Posts: 2,296
    GL’s exit a “tragedy”? That’s a laugh.

    The series would have crashed and burned if he stuck around.

    I seriously doubt that, considering the series nearly crashed and burned in the early 70’s on at least two separate occasions. Say what you will about Lazenby, but he would’ve eventually grown into the role, and made it his own. Hell the action scenes and sense of spectacle found in films like DAF, LALD, and TMWTGG pale in comparison to those found in OHMSS.

    That’s assuming audiences are taken to him.

    I think half of them were and half weren’t, or at least that was what the critical reaction at the time seemed to suggest. I’m sure the announcement of him not doing any more before the film even came out was what was the final nail for Lazenby in the eyes of the audience; why go see the new Bond if he isn’t doing any other films after? That also hurt the box office I think.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited January 2022 Posts: 16,603
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Since62 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Since62 wrote: »
    Perhaps your last sentence was about John Glen. As for Peter Hunt, OHMSS was the only Bond film he directed, and the last Bond on which he worked at all. He was offered more, but declined.

    I said films, not specifically Bond films. Peter Hunt directed Shout At The Devil and Gold, both starring Roger Moore. If he preferred to direct films starring Lazenby than Moore he had a funny way of showing it! :D

    Doh ! I stepped RIGHT INTO THAT !

    Well I wasn't trying to trick anyone, I did say he 'didn't direct any more', meaning Bond films.
    echo wrote: »
    Okay, let's say Lazenby didn't quit after OHMSS (which was not an unreasonable choice in 1969, as much as it looks dumb now).

    Dalton in TLD was much better received than Lazenby, and Dalton lasted only two films. (Finances also derailed Dalton, but Brosnan was ultimately more popular.)

    Lazenby would probably have suffered a similar fate after DAF or LALD.

    It's a strange thing, which actors take off as Bond and which don't. My bet would be that Lazenby wouldn't.

    The difference between Lazenby and Dalton was that audiences weren’t ready for that darker, more brutal Bond that Dalton portrayed. They’d just come off of 7 lighthearted adventures with Roger Moore, and to have Dalton put them off slightly. Another issue with that comes down to why Dalton chose to leave. Everyone says MGM executives wanted Dalton out and Brosnan in, and I’m sure that was true to some extent, but I doubt Dalton was ever going to be doing more than 3 Bond films. He would’ve came back for Goldeneye if he didn’t have the commitment of at least doing more films after that, which is why he declined to return.

    That's the nice version of the story, but the truth seems to be that MGM didn't want him back and he didn't actually get the chance to decline.

    I’d like to have a source on that truth, because I’m going to take what Dalton himself says over anyone else.

    It's been covered lots of times on here: read 'Some Kind of Hero', the excellent book covering the production of all Bond movies. They speak to the MGM executives who confirm that they didn't want him back.
    Dalton wouldn't be a great unbiased source for this: obviously he (most probably his agent) wouldn't want it to sound like he was ditched. Why on earth wouldn't he want to do more Bond movies? Look at the rubbish he went on to make in the 90s. He was desperate to star in The Beautician and The Beast?

    I’ll have to take a look into it. By all means if I’m wrong then fair enough I’m wrong, but I just took Dalton’s word himself. There’s an excellent interview he did with Vanity Fair about Penny Dreadful, and opening up about his decision to leave the franchise, and it made me understand why he chose not to come back. I’m sure that MGM story is also true though, film executives have always been incredibly slimy. Seems to me like the real reason is all murky and not clear enough, much like why Lazenby chose to leave.

    I don't think it's slimy, it's good sense. Why relaunch a series with a lead who never quite captured the audience's imagination? Much better to kick off with someone new who they're curious to see.
    And to answer your question, he’s stated that he hoped he would’ve taken the best elements of his first two films, combine them into his third, then leave. My guess is he didn’t want to keep playing the role into his 50’s, this is also the same man who turned down an audition for Bond at 25 because he felt like he was too young, it’s out of love and respect for Fleming’s creation, which is why he’s the perfect embodiment of Fleming’s Bond.

    Yeah maybe, or perhaps they just decided to go with someone else to get the series going again.
    echo wrote: »
    Studios don't have a problem keeping on stars they don't like, so long as they're popular.

    Precisely, yes. Dalton was fine, he functioned as Bond, he just didn't capture the public's imagination. He wasn't lovable, he wasn't funny, he wasn't particularly sexy or cool, but he functioned as Bond. Unfortunately audiences generally like all of those other things in their stars.
  • mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Since62 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Since62 wrote: »
    Perhaps your last sentence was about John Glen. As for Peter Hunt, OHMSS was the only Bond film he directed, and the last Bond on which he worked at all. He was offered more, but declined.

    I said films, not specifically Bond films. Peter Hunt directed Shout At The Devil and Gold, both starring Roger Moore. If he preferred to direct films starring Lazenby than Moore he had a funny way of showing it! :D

    Doh ! I stepped RIGHT INTO THAT !

    Well I wasn't trying to trick anyone, I did say he 'didn't direct any more', meaning Bond films.
    echo wrote: »
    Okay, let's say Lazenby didn't quit after OHMSS (which was not an unreasonable choice in 1969, as much as it looks dumb now).

    Dalton in TLD was much better received than Lazenby, and Dalton lasted only two films. (Finances also derailed Dalton, but Brosnan was ultimately more popular.)

    Lazenby would probably have suffered a similar fate after DAF or LALD.

    It's a strange thing, which actors take off as Bond and which don't. My bet would be that Lazenby wouldn't.

    The difference between Lazenby and Dalton was that audiences weren’t ready for that darker, more brutal Bond that Dalton portrayed. They’d just come off of 7 lighthearted adventures with Roger Moore, and to have Dalton put them off slightly. Another issue with that comes down to why Dalton chose to leave. Everyone says MGM executives wanted Dalton out and Brosnan in, and I’m sure that was true to some extent, but I doubt Dalton was ever going to be doing more than 3 Bond films. He would’ve came back for Goldeneye if he didn’t have the commitment of at least doing more films after that, which is why he declined to return.

    That's the nice version of the story, but the truth seems to be that MGM didn't want him back and he didn't actually get the chance to decline.

    I’d like to have a source on that truth, because I’m going to take what Dalton himself says over anyone else.

    It's been covered lots of times on here: read 'Some Kind of Hero', the excellent book covering the production of all Bond movies. They speak to the MGM executives who confirm that they didn't want him back.
    Dalton wouldn't be a great unbiased source for this: obviously he (most probably his agent) wouldn't want it to sound like he was ditched. Why on earth wouldn't he want to do more Bond movies? Look at the rubbish he went on to make in the 90s. He was desperate to star in The Beautician and The Beast?

    I’ll have to take a look into it. By all means if I’m wrong then fair enough I’m wrong, but I just took Dalton’s word himself. There’s an excellent interview he did with Vanity Fair about Penny Dreadful, and opening up about his decision to leave the franchise, and it made me understand why he chose not to come back. I’m sure that MGM story is also true though, film executives have always been incredibly slimy. Seems to me like the real reason is all murky and not clear enough, much like why Lazenby chose to leave.

    I don't think it's slimy, it's good sense. Why relaunch a series with a lead who never quite captured the audience's imagination? Much better to kick off with someone new who they're curious to see.
    And to answer your question, he’s stated that he hoped he would’ve taken the best elements of his first two films, combine them into his third, then leave. My guess is he didn’t want to keep playing the role into his 50’s, this is also the same man who turned down an audition for Bond at 25 because he felt like he was too young, it’s out of love and respect for Fleming’s creation, which is why he’s the perfect embodiment of Fleming’s Bond.

    Yeah maybe, or perhaps they just decided to go with someone else to get the series going again.
    echo wrote: »
    Studios don't have a problem keeping on stars they don't like, so long as they're popular.

    Precisely, yes. Dalton was fine, he functioned as Bond, he just didn't capture the public's imagination. He wasn't lovable, he wasn't funny, he wasn't particularly sexy or cool, but he functioned as Bond. Unfortunately audiences generally like all of those other things in their stars.

    Fair enough, problem is with so many sources saying so many different things, it’s hard to find out the actual truth behind what happened behind the scenes. I’m inclined to agree because what you say of Dalton technically is true, he wasn’t the most successful actor to take the part, and for all the reasons you mentioned, instead he went straight to the novels, and that’s respectable these days, hence why there’s been a reevaluation of him as Bond, but on the other hand, I find it hard to believe that Cubby, Barbara, and Michael would’ve just thrown Dalton aside purely because MGM didn’t want him, at least not without putting up some kind of fight.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,603
    Oh I think it is reported they objected to MGM's point of view, and had to tell him with a heavy heart and all that, but I can't not also think that they're businesspeople and would have surely known it was probably for the best. And also the easiest decision in the world knowing they had Pierce ready to step in.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,217
    If EON tried fighting MGM over keeping Dalton it would have just prolonged the hiatus even further. The only thing that could have could have changed MGM’s minds was if Dalton had a major hit film during the hiatus.
  • I’m going to have to read “Some Kind of Hero” because a lot of this is new to me. I always just assumed they went back to Brosnan because Dalton walked away, and took his comments as proof of that. Nothing against Brosnan since he’s my 2nd Favorite Bond, but this makes me feel a bit for Timothy.
  • Posts: 573
    LucknFate wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    LucknFate wrote: »
    Mallory wrote: »
    We may know sooner than we expected (massive bag of salt time).


    That's interesting considering Jamie Dornan may get nominated for Belfast? Dev Patel, Jonathan Majors, Iranian actor Amir Jadidi also in the mix for awards this year.

    EON maybe further along with Bond 26 then we realize.

    I honestly don't think so, and I don't mean to get anybody's hopes up. Just looking at names that will likely be on the red carpet and may get headlines. Keep in mind it's guaranteed the NTTD crew will also be on that red carpet making headlines, so I don't think anything is actually happening. They don't want to distract from NTTD and they've made that clear, and the Oscars are probably the last big event for the movie.

    Alternatively, Variety has reported that Bond will play strong in its usual technical categories but there could be a nod to Cary Fukunaga. It may just be that they want to wait until the Oscars are awarded, finish enjoying NTTD's moment, and then announce they are BEGINNING to cast the net. I bet that's the most likely scenario, if anything. But realistically my doubts are high for any major news this year outside of boring Amazon/MGM merger stuff settling.

    Hard agree.

    I don't think there's anyway they would begin the process of creating a film before that whole Amazon/MGM merger gets settled and the legal landscape is clearer.

    Like — they don't have a script, they don't have a director. There's no way they could cast the part before they have either of those things.
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