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Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • ByRoyalDecreeByRoyalDecree
    Posts: 784
    You are typecasting him. He did overact the dramatic parts of his films but he would have pulled of despondent if he was instructed to do so.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,179
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    There's this ugly notion going around that Daniel Craig completely hijacked the Bond series to see his personal desires fulfilled, that Barbara Broccoli was so smitten with him that she let him get away with it from day 1, or worse, that the producers (though "Babs" takes most of the popular blame) were powerless to act.

    This is rumour, gossip, Internet speculation (the worst part of the Internet), and nothing more. The way I see it, Daniel Craig was part of a team; he worked dilligently and studiously with directors, screenwriters and producers to construct good if not great Bond films. But it is ridiculous to think that he only needed to make a fist or look "Babs" in the eyes and have everyone drop on all fours to lick his boots.

    It also upsets a certain subset of Bond fans that Eon seemingly made Craig a creative partner, and tried to keep him on board as long as possible. Whereas with Brosnan, not only were most of his creative suggestions ignored, but they seemingly had no problem showing him the door and looking for a replacement.

    One bit in the BEING JAMES BOND documentary that I thought was funny was when Michael G Wilson said Craig was the only actor that could “make the role feel more real, emotionally connected, and dramatic”, and it made me think Pierce Brosnan was sneering somewhere in the distance.

    Yes, I think Brosnan would have gladly made some contributions, however small, to see stronger Bond films, or at least films more in sync with his talents, produced. Brosnan was suckered out of creative imput--imput, not control--as well as the opportunity to bring more 'Fleming' to the agenda.

    Regarding Craig, if he hadn't been so willing to deliver quality films to us, QOS might've been a disaster, never seen the light or day, or been delayed beyond measure. Furthermore, he wasn't going to settle for rote product, for formulaic or generic by-the-book Bond films. People can lament certain decisions all they want, but I am glad that we were given interesting, if not innovative Bond films.
  • JustJamesJustJames London
    Posts: 216
    BladeRunner 2049 has quite a few similarities with Bond films — it has essentially a PTS with Sapper, a few ‘Bond Girl’ archetypes with Joi and Luv —being very Onatopp — in particular, an Evil Corporate Villain with Plans For Humanity, and a secret lair, car chases, allies, and a central protagonist with essentially a license to kill, following the orders of his superior who briefs him in an office a la M. It’s closer in tone to the Craig era than Moore mind you.
    That might be more in line with what they are thinking when they are approaching Denis for Bond.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,016
    If Denis gets Bond 26, then another Zimmer score is a certainty.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,382
    ByRoyalDecree wrote: »
    You are typecasting him. He did overact the dramatic parts of his films but he would have pulled of despondent if he was instructed to do so.

    He wouldn't have done it convincingly. There would be lots of squinting and wiping his hand across his lips, some staring off into the middle distance. He's a great star but not a great actor.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    Not sure who I'd want to direct Bond 26 but I'm not crazy about the handful of Denis Villeneuve films I've seen. They were a bit slow and lacked a general direction I thought. They could have lasted forever, there was no sense of urgency. But the scope of them was fantastic and really immersive

    I'd prefer someone else rather than Zimmer, his new version of the Bond theme in NTTD was great but some of the action sequences felt generic
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,382
    I think Villeneuve is fantastic, but I agree that I don't see him as a fit with Bond. He does these very thoughtful, immersive works, and Bond is still action/adventure.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited September 2022 Posts: 2,016
    Yeah @Jordo007 Denis' lack of action in his lengthy films is a concern. I'm not crazy about Denis directing Bond as well. But if a director like Mendes, who was good at directing American dramas before Bond, directed Bond well, I think Denis would have to adapt. I must say when Mendes was announced for SF, I thought the film won't have much action, not that SF is action-heavy, but I expected less. But Mendes now knew he was in Bond territory. I don't think Barbara & Michael would let Denis direct Bond 26 if he wants to include just three action scenes or minimalistic action, then have the rest of the film in slow-burn mode.

    Also, Zimmer's heart was entirely in Dune, that's why he got an Oscar for it, that's why he turned Christopher Nolan's Tenet down. I think if he came into Bond early, he would have done much better, but I still like the score though.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,382
    SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ wrote: »
    Also, Zimmer's heart was entirely in Dune, that's why he got an Oscar for it, that's why he turned Christopher Nolan's Tenet down. I think if he came into Bond early, he would have done much better, but I still like the score though.

    Yes agreed, I think it was a bit of a rush job and he didn't work on it much. It was fine for what it was, I'm not a huge fan of his but I wouldn't mind him having another go where he was able to spend more time on it.
  • 007HallY007HallY
    Posts: 4,139
    I've always said it, I find Villeneuve's films a bit boring with the exception of Prisoners. He's an incredibly skilled, meticulous and cerebral director but perhaps it's not quite the right fit for a Bond film. It's also worth noting that if true it doesn't mean he'll actually be the director (these things have a tendency to fall through if directors and producers don't see eye to eye, and more famous directors than Villeneuve have been approached and weren't given the job).

    Not saying he'd be a bad choice mind you. Maybe his more character focused, cerebral tendencies will be balanced with a script that knows how to use his strengths while still being a Bond adventure. I'd take him any day over Christopher Nolan.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    I can only go on the two Villeneuve films I've seen, Blade Runner and Dune. The world building in both was great but they're the definition of a slow burn

    I remember years ago, coming away from Blade Runner thinking Ana would be a fantastic Bond girl and thinking after seeing Dune recently, Zimmer needed more time to score NTTD and put his own stamp on it.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited September 2022 Posts: 6,296
    mtm wrote: »
    SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ wrote: »
    Also, Zimmer's heart was entirely in Dune, that's why he got an Oscar for it, that's why he turned Christopher Nolan's Tenet down. I think if he came into Bond early, he would have done much better, but I still like the score though.

    Yes agreed, I think it was a bit of a rush job and he didn't work on it much. It was fine for what it was, I'm not a huge fan of his but I wouldn't mind him having another go where he was able to spend more time on it.

    I think Zimmer's factory worked on NTTD more than Zimmer himself.

    I like the NTTD score much better than SP, but a large chunk of it feels like pastiche from the other Craig films, and somewhat surprisingly, Craig-era trailers like CR. At times the score feels like the score equivalent of a cover band.

    I realize that there was a time crunch but...

    ...compare NTTD to something like Inception. Inception feels complete, like the singular work of one composer; NTTD feels more like score-by-committee.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,382
    Yes, agreed. It's pretty bland stuff.
    I would actually take the Sp score over NTTD, it's just a more interesting sound to me.
  • 007ClassicBondFan007ClassicBondFan
    Posts: 2,266
    I was really excited when they announced Zimmerman as NTTD’s composer, and subsequently really disappointed at how forgettable his score was. I’m not the biggest fan of Thomas Newman’s scores, but at least they were somewhat memorable to listen to at times. With Zimmerman, I can’t even begin to think of any cue of music that sticks in my head after hearing it.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    BROCCOLI: “It’s hard to know. We always sit down with our writers, and we start by thinking about “What is the world afraid of?” We start by thinking about, “Who’s the Bond villain?” We try to focus on that as the sort of uber story, and then we want to also look at Bond’s emotional life, and what he’ll be facing personally that he hasn’t had to deal with before. So he has two big issues in the films — one is the geopolitical one and the other is the personal one.”

    Doesn’t surprise me. They’ve been looking for a personal angle with Bond ever since Dalton, so it was unlikely they’d ever get away from that approach.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 2022 Posts: 16,382
    That's pretty much what films are, so it's right that they're doing that.

    I hope they aren't as rigid in their thinking about what the baddie is after as they describe, as you wouldn't get to CR that way. Hopefully they're thinking up some new situations.
  • 007ClassicBondFan007ClassicBondFan
    edited September 2022 Posts: 2,266
    I’m fine with getting more personal stories, just don’t give me another poorly planned film arc that relies too much on nostalgia baiting. Hell they should go back to the episodic nature of the first 20 films. Plus I’m pretty set on Bond films being meta commentaries for the franchises relevance, which was somewhat refreshing seeing NTTD shy away from that a bit.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,547
    mtm wrote: »
    Yes, agreed. It's pretty bland stuff.
    I would actually take the Sp score over NTTD, it's just a more interesting sound to me.

    Spectre has some beautiful tracks, notably Los Muertos Vivos Estan, The Eternal City, Secret Room. It only really falls short when it's a direct rehash of Skyfall.
  • CrabKeyCrabKey
    Posts: 1,985
    As one who has been with film series since Dr. No, I wonder if it's possible to recapture the anticipation and excitement of the three films that came after. No doubt it was youth and the times. Bond fan that I am, the series hasn't been as engaging as those first four films. My hope is a fresh start means trying to recapture what made those first films new and exciting. By way of analogy I look at the Star Trek spinoffs. Most are entertaining, but lack that special something of the original. After decades, along comes Strange New Worlds, an ST series that seems to understand the original. I hope we can expect that from the new Bond. I did like Craig as Bond, but I did not care for the story arc nor the ending of NTTD. I hope fresh start includes a new writing team. I accept that Bond 2025 will not be the Bond of 1963. I haven't been in the demographic for Bond films for decades. But that's okay as long as there's a good story to be told.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,382
    NickTwentyTwo wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Yes, agreed. It's pretty bland stuff.
    I would actually take the Sp score over NTTD, it's just a more interesting sound to me.

    Spectre has some beautiful tracks, notably Los Muertos Vivos Estan, The Eternal City, Secret Room. It only really falls short when it's a direct rehash of Skyfall.

    Yes, the rehashing is a shame, but that doesn't stop it from sounding good.
    And to be fair, most sequels you see do use a lot of a tunes from the first one to tie them together.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,296
    The first film of each Bond is always one of his best, so I think we're in luck for Bond 26.

    I just hope, in this next era, that they don't allow it to be so convoluted. To be sure, there have always been convoluted Bond films, but when each one was a fresh mission, it wasn't as confusing as what they were trying to do across Craig's five.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited September 2022 Posts: 2,016
    I now like Newman's Bond scores, but it's the re-use of the SF's tracks I can't stand. Even if Zimmer's work was rushed, I think it's the action side of things that makes him better than Newman, which isn't a surprise. Plus, apart from David Arnold, there aren't much composers out there, who would have been able to score NTTD in that short time and still make it sound Bondian like Zimmer did.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    The more I think about, the more I'm surprised they didn't go back to Arnold for NTTD, given the time restrictions and Zimmer's limited availability.

    No offence to Zimmer here, I love a few of the tracks for NTTD, but I do feel Arnold would have composed something a bit more original in some places. I doubt he would have reused OHMSS theme for instances, we know he insisted on not reusing YOLT, for DAD for example
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 2022 Posts: 16,382
    echo wrote: »
    The first film of each Bond is always one of his best, so I think we're in luck for Bond 26.

    I just hope, in this next era, that they don't allow it to be so convoluted. To be sure, there have always been convoluted Bond films, but when each one was a fresh mission, it wasn't as confusing as what they were trying to do across Craig's five.

    Were you really confused though?
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    The more I think about, the more I'm surprised they didn't go back to Arnold for NTTD, given the time restrictions and Zimmer's limited availability.

    I kind of wonder if Arnold might not say no, to be honest. He's said that his lack of film scores recently isn't through lack of offers, he's doing what he wants to do now. And maybe big blockbusters are a bit too stressful.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    I genuinely believe that Eon hasn’t gone back to him because after five scores he was never able to secure an Oscar nom, and after Newman earned a nomination they’re more eager to look for prolific award winning composers rather than stick with Arnold.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,382
    No I don't think it's that; it would simply be because Mendes had a relationship with Newman and wanted to use him, and you let the Oscar-winning director choose his composer.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,179
    mtm wrote: »
    No I don't think it's that; it would simply be because Mendes had a relationship with Newman and wanted to use him, and you let the Oscar-winning director choose his composer.

    I agree that Newman came with Mendes as a 'by default'. I am, however, unsure about the producers' relationship with Arnold independent of that. Frankly, I know little about what he is doing right now. That said, I don't think a film composer's talent can just corrode away when it isn't actively used; if anything, he may as well be refuelling his arsenal of themes, cues and orchestral tricks during such a long break. So if they decide to invite him back in, and he agrees, we might as well see the best of the man. I may just be projecting personal hope, however, formed after the release of his score for QOS, which I think is his best Bond work to date.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,547
    echo wrote: »
    The first film of each Bond is always one of his best, so I think we're in luck for Bond 26.

    I just hope, in this next era, that they don't allow it to be so convoluted. To be sure, there have always been convoluted Bond films, but when each one was a fresh mission, it wasn't as confusing as what they were trying to do across Craig's five.

    Octopussy is by far the most convoluted confusing Bond film. None of it makes any damn sense (IMO).
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,179
    NickTwentyTwo wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    The first film of each Bond is always one of his best, so I think we're in luck for Bond 26.

    I just hope, in this next era, that they don't allow it to be so convoluted. To be sure, there have always been convoluted Bond films, but when each one was a fresh mission, it wasn't as confusing as what they were trying to do across Craig's five.

    Octopussy is by far the most convoluted confusing Bond film. None of it makes any damn sense (IMO).

    But it compensates with charm. 😉
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,382
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    No I don't think it's that; it would simply be because Mendes had a relationship with Newman and wanted to use him, and you let the Oscar-winning director choose his composer.

    I agree that Newman came with Mendes as a 'by default'. I am, however, unsure about the producers' relationship with Arnold independent of that. Frankly, I know little about what he is doing right now.

    Well he's curating the official Eon 60th anniversary show at the Albert Hall week after next, so I assume they're still vaguely friendly.
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