Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,578
    If they're EON are going to do another arc, this time they need to plan it out. At least map out a rough framework, allowing for wiggle room (change of cast, shifting of geo politics). Don't bumble through it this time.

    At the end of CR, Bond is the
    Bond we know and love
    But at the start of QOS, Bond wasn't at that point yet. Then in SF Bond was supposedly burned out. In SP he had regained his spark... sort of. And I am not even going to touch NTTD with a broom handle.

    That would have meant we didn't get Skyfall though. And I think that would be terrible.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,970
    mtm wrote: »
    If they're EON are going to do another arc, this time they need to plan it out. At least map out a rough framework, allowing for wiggle room (change of cast, shifting of geo politics). Don't bumble through it this time.

    At the end of CR, Bond is the
    Bond we know and love
    But at the start of QOS, Bond wasn't at that point yet. Then in SF Bond was supposedly burned out. In SP he had regained his spark... sort of. And I am not even going to touch NTTD with a broom handle.

    That would have meant we didn't get Skyfall though. And I think that would be terrible.
    I agree.

    The biggest frustration for me with the Craig-era, and I’ve said this before, is that they had the perfect ending in Skyfall. The perfect place to move forward and launch as many independent James Bond stories as they or Daniel wanted to from that one scene with Bond and Fiennes as the new M in the classic office, but instead they got caught up in what came before and confused (I think) in what made Skyfall successful, so decided to jump headfirst into a story that would try to be the connective tissue between everything, completely undoing, in my opinion, one of the many things that made Skyfall so great.

    You wanna introduce SPECTRE again? Cool. Do it. But don’t do it by retroactively trying to link everything together with some nice string. At that point, it’d been 6/7 years since Quantum and people didn’t need it.
  • Posts: 1,085
    Denbigh wrote: »
    The biggest frustration for me with the Craig-era, and I’ve said this before, is that they had the perfect ending in Skyfall

    I completely agree. Everything was wrapped up so well, even the introduction of Q and Moneypenny, and the male curmudgeon boss in a panelled office. I'm not ashamed to say that's how I like my Bond world, thanks.
    What can I say? I'm a traditionalist when it come to James Bond movies. How wonderful it would have been if the last scene in the Craig era had been Bond in M's office, wanting to get back to work, with the promise of gratuitous spy adventures ahead.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,970
    Denbigh wrote: »
    The biggest frustration for me with the Craig-era, and I’ve said this before, is that they had the perfect ending in Skyfall
    I completely agree.
    I more meant that they had the perfect ending to launch Craig specifically into more independant stories, to move on from Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace and give us more classic James Bond stories with Craig, as much I enjoyed both of Craig's first adventures, it felt right since it'd been 5 years, but again Spectre undid all of that.

    I do, however, see how Skyfall would've also been a good ending for Craig overall if he wanted to stop.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,181
    No doubt, SF's ending would have been the best ending to a Bond's era, even if I liked seeing more of Craig's Bond...albeit in Bond films I'm not that crazy about.
  • Posts: 1,085
    Denbigh wrote: »
    I more meant that they had the perfect ending to launch Craig specifically into more independant stories, to move on from Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace and give us more classic James Bond stories with Craig, as much I enjoyed both of Craig's first adventures, it felt right since it'd been 5 years, but again Spectre undid all of that.

    Yes, I agree. If Craig had have done stand-alone missions after SF, that would have been great too. My point is, after Skyfall, everything was reset, and they could have gone with Craig or a new actor, but gone back to proper missions.
    The biggest problem with the Craig era, for me, is that after Skyfall, instead of leaving the character arc baggage behind, they went further into it.


  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited October 2022 Posts: 5,970
    Denbigh wrote: »
    I more meant that they had the perfect ending to launch Craig specifically into more independant stories, to move on from Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace and give us more classic James Bond stories with Craig, as much I enjoyed both of Craig's first adventures, it felt right since it'd been 5 years, but again Spectre undid all of that.
    The biggest problem with the Craig era, for me, is that after Skyfall, instead of leaving the character arc baggage behind, they went further into it.
    I also think they needed to pick a lane with Spectre. Have your villain be the son and murderer of Hannes Oberhauser or Ernst Stavro Blofeld. Not both. The introduction of SPECTRE or follow on from Casino Royale or Quantum of Solace. Not both.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,692
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    I more meant that they had the perfect ending to launch Craig specifically into more independant stories, to move on from Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace and give us more classic James Bond stories with Craig, as much I enjoyed both of Craig's first adventures, it felt right since it'd been 5 years, but again Spectre undid all of that.
    The biggest problem with the Craig era, for me, is that after Skyfall, instead of leaving the character arc baggage behind, they went further into it.
    I also think they needed to pick a lane with Spectre. Have your villain be the son and murderer of Hannes Oberhauser or Ernst Stavro Blofeld. Not both. The introduction of SPECTRE or follow on from Casino Royale or Quantum of Solace. Not both.

    I agree with everyone’s points. Thankfully, EON more often than not learns from their mistakes. I don’t mind seeing Blofeld and Spectre again, but this time they should plan better, and not base it off their egos.
  • TheSkyfallen06TheSkyfallen06 Buenos Aires, Argentina.
    edited October 2022 Posts: 1,124
    [DELETED]
  • I don't care what people say. NTTD is a top notch Bond film.. The next fella has a tough act to follow.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    I think the problem with ending the Craig era with Skyfall, is that it'd be a disappointment to have not seen Craig's Bond fully formed.
    I do love the ending of Skyfall
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,359
    If they're EON are going to do another arc, this time they need to plan it out. At least map out a rough framework, allowing for wiggle room (change of cast, shifting of geo politics). Don't bumble through it this time.

    At the end of CR, Bond is the
    Bond we know and love
    But at the start of QOS, Bond wasn't at that point yet. Then in SF Bond was supposedly burned out. In SP he had regained his spark... sort of. And I am not even going to touch NTTD with a broom handle.

    EON's map for the Craig era, leaked from the Sony hacks:
    image-asset.png

    Everyone always forgets that the cool, calm, collected, even bemused Bond at the end of CR is *not* how he is at the beginning of QoS. A direct sequel was unnecessary.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,590
    A direct sequel wasn't necessary, sure, but I didn't feel there was a big discrepancy with Bond between the end of CR and beginning of QOS, personally.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,231
    A direct sequel wasn't necessary, sure, but I didn't feel there was a big discrepancy with Bond between the end of CR and beginning of QOS, personally.

    Aside from his outfit, of course. ;)
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,590
    A direct sequel wasn't necessary, sure, but I didn't feel there was a big discrepancy with Bond between the end of CR and beginning of QOS, personally.

    Aside from his outfit, of course. ;)

    Hah, yeah. Perhaps it was a multi-day car ride with White in the boot?
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,231
    A direct sequel wasn't necessary, sure, but I didn't feel there was a big discrepancy with Bond between the end of CR and beginning of QOS, personally.

    Aside from his outfit, of course. ;)

    Hah, yeah. Perhaps it was a multi-day car ride with White in the boot?

    That works for me!
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,181
    Funnily enough, the ending of QoS perfectly closes off Craig's era with the Gunbarrel sequence. That's why SF was a standalone film, until SP came along.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,204
    Was Tom Ford prohibited from completely replicating the previous Brioni suit from CR or something, so they had to make it more approximating?
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,905
    Each of Craig's five Bond films could have neatly closed his tenure in the role, CR included.

    I'm grateful to have all five and wouldn't give up any of them they're pretty great all around.

  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,181
    Each of Craig's five Bond films could have neatly closed his tenure in the role, CR included.

    I'm grateful to have all five and wouldn't give up any of them they're pretty great all around.

    Yeah, I'm grateful as well. Just mentioning that for the sake of style.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,010
    Was Tom Ford prohibited from completely replicating the previous Brioni suit from CR or something, so they had to make it more approximating?

    I've wondered the same. Never understood why they didn't just replicate Bond's suit at the end of CR as accurately as possible.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited October 2022 Posts: 7,590
    If they did switch from Brioni in CR to Tom Ford in QOS (I wasn't sure if he started doing the suits in SF), that seems like that'd explain it. They're extremely different designers; even if they did ask Tom to replicate the suit from CR, what we got in QOS might be the closest you'd get anyways.

    Was it a three piece in QOS? Can't even remember.
  • edited October 2022 Posts: 784
    Those Brionis made damn fine suits back in the day
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,590
    They do, but personally I actually prefer Tom Ford.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,204
    It doesn’t appear to be three piece in QOS.

    I assume they couldn’t use the Brioni suit because 1. Craig slimmed down in muscle mass by QOS and it would have looked oversized for him. 2. Might have been a contractual issue. Because Tom Ford was hired for Craig’s tailoring, using a competitors’ product even if just for the first 20 mins would not have made people happy.

    All this says to me is that it would have been easier to just have QOS not be set immediately after CR. I don’t even think the film actually justifies the conceit. It could have taken place a day or week later and it wouldn’t have dramatically changed anything in the plot/story.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited October 2022 Posts: 7,590
    We technically don't know that it takes place immediately after CR. There's nothing to indicate that it does not pick up a day or week later, really.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,204
    Sure we do, Mr. White looks like someone who had just been shot in the leg, and they’re still in Italy. Aside from those clues, even Wilson has spoken about the beginning of QOS taking place at least within an hour after CR.

    It would be more ambiguous how much time had passed if QOS opened with White in official custody. But, for whatever creative reasons, Forster wanted to open the film close to where CR left off.

    My ideal follow up would be much like Fleming’s LALD where it’s at least a year or many months after. Bond is assigned on a mission that involves the unnamed organization, with M even noting that Bond is probably hungry for a little payback after what happened in CR. Leiter would be more heavily involved so to take more advantage of the chemistry between Craig and Wright.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,590
    Sure we do, Mr. White looks like someone who had just been shot in the leg, and they’re still in Italy.

    This is hardly conclusive proof. But fair enough about MGWs comments on the matter, that's more conclusive for sure.

    I think ultimately this is just a case of, don't worry about it.

  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,472
    How about they go down the Gardner book and have Bond be his own "troubleshooter". I rather like M saying we need the double-o and by God we shall have it. Might open up some more story angles where M gets in political trouble over the missions Bond gets into. I am not saying to do the Gardner films, but I do rather like the angle of no double O section and Bond being an off the books troubleshooter.
  • That would be fantastic if they just did the Gardner books. Maybe not all of them, but four or five of the best. That would make for some great cinema and would allow them to envision a new kind of Bond on screen: one who's intentionally in his 50s/early 60s.

    The Benson books had some pretty good ideas in them too that I think would translate very well to the screen. I would say apart from his overreliance on Fleming characters like Tiger Tanaka and René Mathis, but then again, that's just the kind of nostalgia Eon would probably go for.
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