Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • edited February 2023 Posts: 842
    Early morning thoughts. I know this isn't strictly a casting thread, but...

    I'm absolutely enthralled with the new season of Star Trek: Picard, particularly Ed Speelers' work. And I'm coming round to the idea that he would be a phenomenal James Bond.

    230116-ed-speleers-s04-167-1677084957.jpg?resize=980:*

    The image above is taken from today's Esquire piece about his rising stardom, (Note: major spoilers for Picard beyond the click, particularly episode 2).
    https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/a43024539/ed-speleers-star-trek-picard/

    ...but today's episode, specifically, is what's given me the idea. (I assure you, I had this thought before I read the subtitle on the article! :D )
    • Physically, he's handsome and looks the part
    • He's only 34 years old
    • Strong voice
    • He masterfully plays a rogue-ish, but always charming character who drives action
    • Balances humor and seriousness very well
    • He's a rising star, but not too famous yet: Clearly, he can be counted on to handle a major franchise IP but is also not so well known that audiences wouldn't be able to accept and see him as 007 (that post-Remington Brosnan sweet spot)
    • A new spin on the character: Perhaps less serious and bit a more fun than Daniel's interpretation (which I'm starting to think we need), but he could still maintain the harder edge of physicality and emotion when it's needed -- The man's a very good actor

    Bonus: He's asked directly about it at the end of the Esquire piece, and his answer's pretty clear.

    "I think every British actor under the age of 60 would probably like to put their hat in the ring for that one. I would absolutely love it. I think I’m probably down the pecking order at the moment. There seem to be a few big names thrown around. I mean, of course, I grew up adoring Bond, and it’s something my dad and I shared a huge passion for. But let’s put that out there! Star Trek spinoff and Bond. Yes, I’d do James Bond, and yes, I want to do a Star Trek spinoff."

  • Audiences love a dysfunctional character on screen, not so much in real life. Give him some flaws to overcome, a love he won't trust, the task that's almost impossible to complete etc...
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 950
    @AgentM72

    He’s in the new season of You. I did think he was quite charismatic, but I’d need to see him in more stuff.
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    edited February 2023 Posts: 1,673
    This is for the actor thread. It's probably right under this thread on the homepage, if you missed it...

    As for the guy, not for me!
  • Posts: 842
    LucknFate wrote: »
    This is for the actor thread. It's probably right under this thread on the homepage, if you missed it...

    As for the guy, not for me!

    Cheers -- didn't see it, but I knew there had to be one. Moved!
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    edited February 2023 Posts: 1,673
    AgentM72 wrote: »
    LucknFate wrote: »
    This is for the actor thread. It's probably right under this thread on the homepage, if you missed it...

    As for the guy, not for me!

    Cheers -- didn't see it, but I knew there had to be one. Moved!

    No worries.

    What do we think of James Bond with a London-based girlfriend for multiple movies? Someone he can come home to. We've never really done that. Call her Sylvia Trench. Then she can be put in jeopardy in the third movie or whatever. But give us a few with Bond at first having to keep his career mostly a secret, then she learns more and more and he opens up to her, then something happens to put it all at risk. But give it a few movies!
  • Posts: 1,870
    I used to think I knew what fans would like in a new reboot but the more comments I read the more I would not want to be the one making the FINAL decisions for the new take on Bond.
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    Posts: 1,673
    What "fans" want is so far out of the producers' minds, it really doesn't matter what we say. They're going to do exactly what they want regardless. They killed James Bond. What fan wants that.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    LucknFate wrote: »
    What "fans" want is so far out of the producers' minds, it really doesn't matter what we say. They're going to do exactly what they want regardless. They killed James Bond. What fan wants that.

    ^^^Never were truer words spoken. This is 💯 % correct.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,254
    LucknFate wrote: »
    What "fans" want is so far out of the producers' minds, it really doesn't matter what we say.

    Probably for the best. 😉
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited February 2023 Posts: 4,589
    LucknFate wrote: »
    What "fans" want is so far out of the producers' minds, it really doesn't matter what we say. They're going to do exactly what they want regardless. They killed James Bond. What fan wants that.

    I don't know if I wanted it, but it's the artistic choice that was made, and it worked. DC's James Bond always seemed to traffic in the symbolic and thematic, and his death was perfectly acceptable from that standpoint. If we review the previous four films, the shadow of death was cast all over him, continuously: from "Life expectancy" conversations to his hobby being "resurrection" to skull masks and Dia de los Muertos. It's been there from the beginning.

    The beautiful irony in Bond's tragic end is that he would have lived an even more tragic, lonely existence in Jamaica if he had not made the choice to get involved. It was an existential conundrum. Great heroes are forced to make serious choices: and Bond makes one here. It leads him to knowing his life was not meaningless (because of that most perfect thing he'd ever seen) and leads him to possibly saving the world (something Felix bragged about), as well.

    The denouement, with Madeliene telling Mathilde about a man named "Bond, James Bond" allows the characters and the audience to see Bond in far more mythic proportions.

    But that's me. I liked that DC's Bond was not just another action hero (like Ethan Hunt or Jason Bourne or any of the others). Bond has to affect us differently, and I appreciate that the DC era recognized that--despite some of its flaws.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,600
    @TripAces

    Well said!
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,215
    I rather the filmmakers do what they want rather than pander to fans.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,970
    Even if they did choose to listen to the fans, which ones do they listen to?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Even if they did choose to listen to the fans, which ones do they listen to?

    Well...me, of course.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,157
    TripAces wrote: »
    he would have lived an even more tragic, lonely existence in Jamaica if he had not made the choice to get involved.
    What's tragic about living a loveless, purposeless life without a partner or friends? Most Brits over 60 do that! ;)
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    edited February 2023 Posts: 1,673
    TripAces wrote: »
    LucknFate wrote: »
    What "fans" want is so far out of the producers' minds, it really doesn't matter what we say. They're going to do exactly what they want regardless. They killed James Bond. What fan wants that.

    I don't know if I wanted it, but it's the artistic choice that was made, and it worked. DC's James Bond always seemed to traffic in the symbolic and thematic, and his death was perfectly acceptable from that standpoint. If we review the previous four films, the shadow of death was cast all over him, continuously: from "Life expectancy" conversations to his hobby being "resurrection" to skull masks and Dia de los Muertos. It's been there from the beginning.

    The beautiful irony in Bond's tragic end is that he would have lived an even more tragic, lonely existence in Jamaica if he had not made the choice to get involved. It was an existential conundrum. Great heroes are forced to make serious choices: and Bond makes one here. It leads him to knowing his life was not meaningless (because of that most perfect thing he'd ever seen) and leads him to possibly saving the world (something Felix bragged about), as well.

    The denouement, with Madeliene telling Mathilde about a man named "Bond, James Bond" allows the characters and the audience to see Bond in far more mythic proportions.

    But that's me. I liked that DC's Bond was not just another action hero (like Ethan Hunt or Jason Bourne or any of the others). Bond has to affect us differently, and I appreciate that the DC era recognized that--despite some of its flaws.

    You make it sound much better than the movie I watched. I accepted the conceit, hated the execution. But I don't think any fan prior to Daniel Craig's era would have ever said they should kill him on screen. Fleming teased it in the novels and the world nearly revolted. Though, I guess they did it with Rogue Agent.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,215
    LucknFate wrote: »
    But I don't think any fan prior to Daniel Craig's era would have ever said they should kill him on screen. Fleming teased it in the novels and the world nearly revolted. Though, I guess they did it with Rogue Agent.

    20 years ago I would have never expected or anticipated Eon making a movie where Bond actually dies, because I would have thought they were too cowardly to actually go through with it. In fact, I would have never expected the next Bond film to NOT feature Q or Moneypenny, or have the Bond girl die at the end. I remember even when rumors of adapting CR came about that many were skeptical that Eon would actually stay true to the story. Maybe it would just be another case of them taking the title of the book and the rest of the movie would barely resemble what’s on the page.

    The fact that they actually went through with killing him off in NTTD actually makes me excited for the future of the series. From here on out nothing is off the table. Nothing is sacred. I’m game for that.
  • Posts: 1,650
    LucknFate wrote: »
    But I don't think any fan prior to Daniel Craig's era would have ever said they should kill him on screen. Fleming teased it in the novels and the world nearly revolted. Though, I guess they did it with Rogue Agent.

    20 years ago I would have never expected or anticipated Eon making a movie where Bond actually dies, because I would have thought they were too cowardly to actually go through with it. In fact, I would have never expected the next Bond film to NOT feature Q or Moneypenny, or have the Bond girl die at the end. I remember even when rumors of adapting CR came about that many were skeptical that Eon would actually stay true to the story. Maybe it would just be another case of them taking the title of the book and the rest of the movie would barely resemble what’s on the page.

    The fact that they actually went through with killing him off in NTTD actually makes me excited for the future of the series. From here on out nothing is off the table. Nothing is sacred. I’m game for that.

    Agreed ! I'll repeat my proposal that in each and every film for the next 6 or so, Bond dies. New Bond and supporting actors each time. We can have films with all the "too-old-for-a-series-of-films" actors, all different sorts of appearances and tones - comic ! tragic ! all action ! - and then switch back. Oh. And each one must have appropriately Fleming-esque Bondian titles, preferably with "die" or "live" in the title !
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    edited February 2023 Posts: 1,673
    LucknFate wrote: »
    But I don't think any fan prior to Daniel Craig's era would have ever said they should kill him on screen. Fleming teased it in the novels and the world nearly revolted. Though, I guess they did it with Rogue Agent.

    20 years ago I would have never expected or anticipated Eon making a movie where Bond actually dies, because I would have thought they were too cowardly to actually go through with it. In fact, I would have never expected the next Bond film to NOT feature Q or Moneypenny, or have the Bond girl die at the end. I remember even when rumors of adapting CR came about that many were skeptical that Eon would actually stay true to the story. Maybe it would just be another case of them taking the title of the book and the rest of the movie would barely resemble what’s on the page.

    The fact that they actually went through with killing him off in NTTD actually makes me excited for the future of the series. From here on out nothing is off the table. Nothing is sacred. I’m game for that.

    I see your perspective. Again, I ultimately accepted the conceit of killing Bond off—even if I find it lazy—for Craig's final film, I just think they muddle the execution with a bad villain narrative. I have no grasp of who killed James Bond, the acting was atrocious, and that's a failure on their part. I would have certainly done things different.

    Why is the Bond's blood on the good guy's hands at the end? That didn't have to go that way. And separating Bond from the family he'd finally obtained in his final moments was just bleak. They could have done so much more with it, and imo they whiffed at the end. There's some stuff to like in NTTD, I just don't want to go back and find it.

    And it's not fair to the film, but the follow-up of the director being kind of a wierdo around younger women didn't help my impression. And looking back at how they fumbled Danny Boyle, and wasted millions and months, I just have a lot of questions. I worry about execution going forward.

    And it's why we shouldn't be rushing them!
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited February 2023 Posts: 5,970
    I do think it's kind of unfair to say they fumbled Danny Boyle when we have no idea what happened with that. I'm also not sure it's fair to say they wasted millions considering the position they were in with No Time To Die's release.
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    edited February 2023 Posts: 1,673
    Denbigh wrote: »
    I do think it's kind of unfair to say they fumbled Danny Boyle when we have no idea what happened with that.

    It must take a lot for an A-level departure like that, and there's been plenty of press about what happened. Saying the producers "didn't want to go down" their route. They hired Danny Boyle and then fired him! Because he wouldn't make edits. I call that a fumble, you call it whatever. And they are on record as having invested heavily in sets etc. for Boyle's plot before bailing on him. Those "wasted" millions that I guess were sort of recycled.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited February 2023 Posts: 5,970
    LucknFate wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    I do think it's kind of unfair to say they fumbled Danny Boyle when we have no idea what happened with that.
    It must take a lot for an A-level departure like that, and there's been plenty of press about what happened. Saying the producers "didn't want to go down" their route. They hired Danny Boyle and then fired him! Because he wouldn't make edits. I call that a fumble, you call it whatever. And they are on record as having invested heavily in sets etc. for Boyle's plot before bailing on him. Those "wasted" millions that I guess were sort of recycled.
    I just feel that there's a lot we don't know about the situation so I can't just put the issue at EON's feet. Are we even sure he was fired? Cause I swear some have said he quit?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    Speaking of Boyle, is there a compilation of all the information regarding his set and what was already prepared? I saw some concept art or storyboards for it several months back but can't remember where. Curious if anyone has catalogued everything we know about his ideas.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited February 2023 Posts: 5,970
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Speaking of Boyle, is there a compilation of all the information regarding his set and what was already prepared? I saw some concept art or storyboards for it several months back but can't remember where. Curious if anyone has catalogued everything we know about his ideas.
    I know some concept art from Boyle's film can be found here:

    https://www.krop.com/timbrowning/#/527768/
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,215
    I thought it was already revealed awhile ago why Boyle left. He’s what’s known as a “writer’s director”. He started the project with John Hodge and had every intention of working with him up to the end. But Eon wanted to bring in other writers for rewrites. Boyle wouldn’t agree to that and left. The rest is history.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    edited February 2023 Posts: 2,641
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Speaking of Boyle, is there a compilation of all the information regarding his set and what was already prepared? I saw some concept art or storyboards for it several months back but can't remember where. Curious if anyone has catalogued everything we know about his ideas.
    I know some concept art from Boyle's film can be found here:

    https://www.krop.com/timbrowning/#/527768/

    Looking at the concept art Boyle's film, it looked like it was inspired by Moonraker and YOLT. Such a grand scale to everything
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited February 2023 Posts: 2,186
    Honestly, what I would say is, Boyle's Bond film would have had more rewatch value. My only worry about Boyle is his penchant for using songs not recorded for the film. I enjoy that in his films. But it would have been too much for a Bond film, even if it's a bit present in some Bond films. But still, I have a feeling I would have watched Boyle's Bond film more. I have not seen NTTD up to 10 times since its release....and I saw it last in early 2022. I have listened to Zimmer's NTTD score more and I still do. I'm still grateful someone like Zimmer scored it, at least it gives me the urge to rewatch the Matera Chase & Bunker Shootout on YouTube.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited February 2023 Posts: 3,157
    I thought it was already revealed awhile ago why Boyle left. He’s what’s known as a “writer’s director”. He started the project with John Hodge and had every intention of working with him up to the end. But Eon wanted to bring in other writers for rewrites. Boyle wouldn’t agree to that and left. The rest is history.

    Yes, this is what Boyle himself said happened. EON wanted to dump Hodge and his script, and Boyle walked the plank out of loyalty to his mate.
  • edited February 2023 Posts: 6,710
    This is probably off thread and I have no idea where the proper thread is but, seeing this one is meant to discuss the future, could we please have a Bond song by Benjamin Clementine? I have just found out about him and his songs and I'm properly blown away. A true poet with a damn good range. Just him, his piano, and at some point, a swelling orchestra.

    So, here's my vote for a future Bond song by Clementine.

    Actually, he could play the villain as well. He has a credit in Dune, so...

    It would be funny if he was a silent villain. Mute. Dangerous for it. Full of charisma and no voice, just actions, slow dangerous powerful gestures. A mute villain.

    Who happens to sing the title song.

    Brilliant? Well...thank you ;)

    Benjamin-Clementine,medium.2x.1602159931.jpg
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