Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    edited February 2023 Posts: 1,646
    Univex wrote: »
    This is probably off thread and I have no idea where the proper thread is but, seeing this one is meant to discuss the future, could we please have a Bond song by Benjamin Clementine? I have just found out about him and his songs and I'm properly blown away. A true poet with a damn good range. Just him, his piano, and at some point, a swelling orchestra.

    So, here's my vote for a future Bond song by Clementine.

    Actually, he could play the villain as well. He has a credit in Dune, so...

    It would be funny if he was a silent villain. Mute. Dangerous for it. Full of charisma and no voice, just actions, slow dangerous powerful gestures. A mute villain.

    Who happens to sing the title song.

    Brilliant? Well...thank you ;)

    Benjamin-Clementine,medium.2x.1602159931.jpg

    Or a musical film where the villain only speaks in song. Bond wins the dance-off.
  • Posts: 1,859
    Speaking of Dance offs, what if EON signed on the director of RRR?
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,179
    delfloria wrote: »
    Speaking of Dance offs, what if EON signed on the director of RRR?

    If Bond does a big dance every couple of scenes, I'm in!
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    Maybe a proper tango sequence that doesn’t have Bond spilling the news about the death of a brother. Too bad TRUE LIES beat them to it first!
  • Posts: 1,630
    Maybe a proper tango sequence that doesn’t have Bond spilling the news about the death of a brother. Too bad TRUE LIES beat them to it first!

    NSNA beat True Lies to the Tango scene by quite some time...
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    Since62 wrote: »
    Maybe a proper tango sequence that doesn’t have Bond spilling the news about the death of a brother. Too bad TRUE LIES beat them to it first!

    NSNA beat True Lies to the Tango scene by quite some time...

    I said “proper”. NSNA’s wasn’t. Hence TRUE LIES being the first proper tango sequence.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    "Your brother's dead, keep dancing."

    You can feel the compassion radiating from Bond with that line. ;)
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited February 2023 Posts: 5,970
    "Your brother's dead, keep dancing."

    You can feel the compassion radiating from Bond with that line. ;)
    I suppose it depends on how you feel about your brother ;)
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,629
    peter wrote: »
    LucknFate wrote: »
    What "fans" want is so far out of the producers' minds, it really doesn't matter what we say. They're going to do exactly what they want regardless. They killed James Bond. What fan wants that.

    ^^^Never were truer words spoken. This is 💯 % correct.

    I agree.
    Venutius wrote: »
    I thought it was already revealed awhile ago why Boyle left. He’s what’s known as a “writer’s director”. He started the project with John Hodge and had every intention of working with him up to the end. But Eon wanted to bring in other writers for rewrites. Boyle wouldn’t agree to that and left. The rest is history.

    Yes, this is what Boyle himself said happened. EON wanted to dump Hodge and his script, and Boyle walked the plank out of loyalty to his mate.

    I can respect that. They probably didn't want Purvis and Wade messing up their script. They wanted pulled a Martin Campbell and Marc Forster. EON showed loyalty to their writers too often and upset some people, both crew and fans.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    LucknFate wrote: »
    What "fans" want is so far out of the producers' minds, it really doesn't matter what we say. They're going to do exactly what they want regardless. They killed James Bond. What fan wants that.

    ^^^Never were truer words spoken. This is 💯 % correct.

    I agree.
    Venutius wrote: »
    I thought it was already revealed awhile ago why Boyle left. He’s what’s known as a “writer’s director”. He started the project with John Hodge and had every intention of working with him up to the end. But Eon wanted to bring in other writers for rewrites. Boyle wouldn’t agree to that and left. The rest is history.

    Yes, this is what Boyle himself said happened. EON wanted to dump Hodge and his script, and Boyle walked the plank out of loyalty to his mate.

    I can respect that. They probably didn't want Purvis and Wade messing up their script. They wanted pulled a Martin Campbell and Marc Forster. EON showed loyalty to their writers too often and upset some people, both crew and fans.

    That’s not the issue. It was that if Boyle was going to have rewrites conducted it would be done with Hodge. It had nothing to do with Purvis and Wade. EON could have brought any talented writer on board and Boyle would still be against it.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited February 2023 Posts: 3,152
    True - Boyle said that Hodge's script 'wasn't finished', but I don't know if that means that they literally didn't have a completed draft or if he meant that it wasn't a finalised script that'd gone through rewrites, etc.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,297
    LucknFate wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    I do think it's kind of unfair to say they fumbled Danny Boyle when we have no idea what happened with that.

    It must take a lot for an A-level departure like that, and there's been plenty of press about what happened. Saying the producers "didn't want to go down" their route. They hired Danny Boyle and then fired him! Because he wouldn't make edits. I call that a fumble, you call it whatever. And they are on record as having invested heavily in sets etc. for Boyle's plot before bailing on him. Those "wasted" millions that I guess were sort of recycled.

    It's not really a fumble. It's business as usual in Hollywood.
  • George_KaplanGeorge_Kaplan Being chauffeured by Tibbett
    edited February 2023 Posts: 682
    LucknFate wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    I do think it's kind of unfair to say they fumbled Danny Boyle when we have no idea what happened with that.

    It must take a lot for an A-level departure like that, and there's been plenty of press about what happened. Saying the producers "didn't want to go down" their route. They hired Danny Boyle and then fired him! Because he wouldn't make edits. I call that a fumble, you call it whatever. And they are on record as having invested heavily in sets etc. for Boyle's plot before bailing on him. Those "wasted" millions that I guess were sort of recycled.

    You'd be surprised by the amount of money that sometimes gets spent on stuff that never gets made.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,585

    I disagree strongly with almost all of it.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,588
    Screen rant is garbage outside of the Ryan George Pitch Meetings
  • George_KaplanGeorge_Kaplan Being chauffeured by Tibbett
    edited February 2023 Posts: 682
    I'm curious about what current or recent films and tv shows are going to be an influence. I'm a little out of the loop as far as that's concerned. What does everyone here think?
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    As far as influential spy thrillers? There’s nothing obvious now, not like how BOURNE was in the 2000s.

    MISSION: IMPOSSIBLE has coexisted with Bond for nearly 30 years now, and if anything, that has taken a lot more cues from Craig Bond than the other way around.
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 942
    I think the ‘team Bond’ aspect that came into play in Spectre was influenced by the recent MI films. Apart from that though, the big thing about the MI films are the daredevil stunts, and they really are influenced by Bond movies.

    I don’t think there are any obvious new challengers in the spy-actioner arena. The Last of Us is the bigger new sensation on TV, and that’s doing well more for its fantastic chemistry between Pedro Pascal and Bella Ramsey than the post-apocalyptic zombie action. I wouldn’t be shocked if they tried to find a place for Ramsey somewhere in the new film, but otherwise I think they might simply try to place more emphasis on chemistry between Bond and his co-star(s).
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    I think the ‘team Bond’ aspect that came into play in Spectre was influenced by the recent MI films.

    I think it was more of a byproduct of hiring known actors in parts that used to be small, and the filmmakers feeling they need to make use of their talents by giving them more to do, rather than actually taking influence from M:I. Besides, Bond is only out in the field with that team for a very brief period in London before he has to fend for himself when captured.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    All the more reason why I hope they scale it back with some smaller actors for the MI6 crew in this next era. Return them to what they do best and please don't inject them into the action sequences so heavily again this go around.
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 942
    You know what I’d like to see in a new Bond film? A bit of subtlety. At the moment I think the franchise has aspirations to be more serious and thoughtful, but I don’t think they really trust the audience enough to go the whole hog and show rather than tell.
  • Posts: 3,327
    LucknFate wrote: »
    What "fans" want is so far out of the producers' minds, it really doesn't matter what we say. They're going to do exactly what they want regardless. They killed James Bond. What fan wants that.

    Spot on, pal! =D>
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited February 2023 Posts: 3,152
    TripAces wrote: »

    I disagree strongly with almost all of it.

    Me too. Hard to respect their judgment when they can't grasp the importance of water to the plot of QOS and they think that ephemera like the dearth of gadgets is one of two or three issues to highlight as a major flaw. I mean...pffft.
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    Posts: 693
    Bond Needs Better Gadgets
    As long as they're clever, but I didn't exactly miss the gadgets in CR and QOS. The Brosnan era went a bit overboard on them.
    Bond 26 Needs Better Villains
    Yes, something other than a guy from someone's past seeking revenge, which they did three times in a row. I wouldn't like revenge being a factor at all in Bond 26. It's basically the only plot Hollywood does nowadays when it comes to action movies.
    Bond 26 Should Honor Classic Characters
    Yes. Write the characters as they're supposed to be instead of writing original characters and slapping legacy names onto them like Moneypenny and Blofeld.
    Bond 26 Needs To Forget The Overarching Story
    Agreed again. They can still have a loose continuity, but each individual film should work on its own and not just be links in a chain.
    Bond Himself Needs To Be Different
    Every Bond is different simply from being played by a different actor. But they shouldn't try to re-do the Craig era.
    Daniel Craig's Bond Era Was Too Serious
    The Craig era wasn't brought down by seriousness, it was brought down by bad ideas. If they had just made 5 movies with the same level of seriousness of CR, only with good plots instead of what we got, it would have worked.
    The Next Bond Movie Probably Needs A Different Continuity
    Obviously, This isn't really even a suggestion, it's a necessity.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    I do think it’s better they don’t pander to younger audiences. Bond should be for adults.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    As for influences from film and TV, it's still kind of up in the air whether they want to jump on a bit more of the Wick/Raid/Atomic Blonde/Gangs of London train and do a very kinetic hand-to-hand action based film. Slick style, little story, smaller but outrageous stunts. I have been saying that for a bit, but it seems like the moment those films had in Hollywood has passed a bit. Plus, there's always the problem of doing that without the outright violence that would preclude you from a 12 rating. So I think the stairwell sequence in NTTD or something like it is about as much as we'll get.

    Another possible route is spectacle. I am very sure EON had a meeting where they watched Top Gun: Maverick and discussed why that one was the "MOVIES ARE BACK"-blockbuster and not NTTD. Frankly, I don't think there's a lot to take from it approach-wise. They tried to do spectacle and nostalgia and high value and TG:M just did it more succesfully. The more cynical, Moonraker-version would be: Let's do fighter jets. However, they are too slow for something like that nowadays and the basic business plan of "hey here's a film that's a bit like the one you liked before" just doesn't work anymore, now that viewers can just watch TG:M four times a day at home, if they want to. (Little side possiblity would be Top Spy and copying more of the Top Gun dynamic between the pilots. That would be atrocious.) MI obviously also works in this register, so it's a big continuing influence there. Avatar and Marvel also kind of fall into the category of spectacle, but there's really nothing to take from those, other than people are seemingly done with Multiverse.

    The final thing and that's maybe a bit out there is the kind of sneaky return of indie but coupled with, let's call them outsider stories. I am largely basing this on Everything Everywhere All At Once. Weird premises, but heavily tied to the personal stories of the creators and actors that have to be outside of the white, western, straight mainstream. Now I can't imagine anything further away from Bond - the patron saint and personal protector of the the white, western, straight mainstream - but it's a massive succes story and again I can't imagine EON isn't huddling together and trying to pull something from it. The first obvious hindrance is, you can't do crazy sci-fi on that conceptual level with Bond. The second is, even if they decide to cast a non-white actor, the story can't suddenly completely revolve around the specific historical trauma and experience of whatever heritage he may have. Plus, we've already had a huge run of personal stories. So a very real possibility would be that they don't take anything on a conceptual level and instead look at EEAAO and say: Hey, Michelle Yeoh was awesome in TND. This Ke Huy Quan guy is good, too. We like to cast previous Best Supporting Oscar Winners. Let's do an Asian Marial Arts film with him. A bit more out there would be to hire Daniels to do a film, but I don't think they'd be interested in doing something that is true to Bond (I don't know them at all) and be more interested in other character in a Bond Universe making Bond a side character, which has been a huge concern for fans for years now.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    edited February 2023 Posts: 554
    As for influences from film and TV, it's still kind of up in the air whether they want to jump on a bit more of the Wick/Raid/Atomic Blonde/Gangs of London train and do a very kinetic hand-to-hand action based film. Slick style, little story, smaller but outrageous stunts. I have been saying that for a bit, but it seems like the moment those films had in Hollywood has passed a bit. Plus, there's always the problem of doing that without the outright violence that would preclude you from a 12 rating. So I think the stairwell sequence in NTTD or something like it is about as much as we'll get.

    Another possible route is spectacle. I am very sure EON had a meeting where they watched Top Gun: Maverick and discussed why that one was the "MOVIES ARE BACK"-blockbuster and not NTTD. Frankly, I don't think there's a lot to take from it approach-wise. They tried to do spectacle and nostalgia and high value and TG:M just did it more succesfully. The more cynical, Moonraker-version would be: Let's do fighter jets. However, they are too slow for something like that nowadays and the basic business plan of "hey here's a film that's a bit like the one you liked before" just doesn't work anymore, now that viewers can just watch TG:M four times a day at home, if they want to. (Little side possiblity would be Top Spy and copying more of the Top Gun dynamic between the pilots. That would be atrocious.) MI obviously also works in this register, so it's a big continuing influence there. Avatar and Marvel also kind of fall into the category of spectacle, but there's really nothing to take from those, other than people are seemingly done with Multiverse.

    The final thing and that's maybe a bit out there is the kind of sneaky return of indie but coupled with, let's call them outsider stories. I am largely basing this on Everything Everywhere All At Once. Weird premises, but heavily tied to the personal stories of the creators and actors that have to be outside of the white, western, straight mainstream. Now I can't imagine anything further away from Bond - the patron saint and personal protector of the the white, western, straight mainstream - but it's a massive succes story and again I can't imagine EON isn't huddling together and trying to pull something from it. The first obvious hindrance is, you can't do crazy sci-fi on that conceptual level with Bond. The second is, even if they decide to cast a non-white actor, the story can't suddenly completely revolve around the specific historical trauma and experience of whatever heritage he may have. Plus, we've already had a huge run of personal stories. So a very real possibility would be that they don't take anything on a conceptual level and instead look at EEAAO and say: Hey, Michelle Yeoh was awesome in TND. This Ke Huy Quan guy is good, too. We like to cast previous Best Supporting Oscar Winners. Let's do an Asian Marial Arts film with him. A bit more out there would be to hire Daniels to do a film, but I don't think they'd be interested in doing something that is true to Bond (I don't know them at all) and be more interested in other character in a Bond Universe making Bond a side character, which has been a huge concern for fans for years now.
    I think another aspect of Maverick's particular success compared to NTTD is that, well, it's more of a feel good, upbeat movie in comparison to the tragic feel NTTD ends on (and executes well).
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,016
    I also think most of the action scenes in NTTD aren't that memorable. Do fans really look forward to the Lab attack, Cuba sequence, Norway chase? Even some action in Safin's lair doesn't really stand out. Something like a massive flood or massive explosion/fire would have made it better. There's nothing apocalyptic like what the film thinks it was aiming for....even Bond's death.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,789
    I also think most of the action scenes in NTTD aren't that memorable. Do fans really look forward to the Lab attack, Cuba sequence, Norway chase? Even some action in Safin's lair doesn't really stand out. Something like a massive flood or massive explosion/fire would have made it better. There's nothing apocalyptic like what the film thinks it was aiming for....even Bond's death.

    No, No and no, even the Matera scenes, I'm not looking forward into it.

    Maybe the Cuba scenes (but I thought the cinematography used there was too dark), but those all of the scenes involving Madeleine Swann, no I'm not looking forward into those, I'm now looking forward into forgetting them now.
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