Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    edited March 2023 Posts: 16,351
    I've watched every new Bond movie in the theater since TWINE. That tradition ended with NTTD. I skipped it because the ending and it didn't look exciting to me.
  • Posts: 2,161
    I skipped TND because I didn’t feel connected to the Brosnan Era at the time. That had been the first one I hadn’t seen in the theater, or drive-in, in its first run, since OHMSS. I was also going through a divorce, which surely added to Bond not being on my mind at all. When the ending of NTTD was leaked to me, I almost made the decision not go see it.
  • Posts: 9,847
    peter wrote: »
    @jetsetwilly … It’s a 60 year franchise. No other film series can boast this. Most have died out, or like Indy Jones, take longgggg pauses to figure out where they’re taking their IP.

    Let EoN figure this out so they can blast back on the scene like they did with GE and CR.

    There’s a process and as I, and @ColonelSun can attest, writing scripts isn’t as easy as , oh I’ve got a grand idea. When you place yourself with a producer, it gets a little more complex. There’s a process to modern blockbuster tent-pole creations.

    And I don’t believe EoN’s been sitting there with a thumb up their rear. I just think they’re pushing through the creative waters to give us an explosive reintroduction. If it was easy, all we Bond fans would be making gazillions off our own Bond-type creations. But we aren’t.

    EoN literally is unique in that it is the size of an independent film production company, but unlike other indies they’re competing in the world of multi million dollar popcorn flicks. It’s a wonder they’re not only surviving but thriving in this marketplace (like seriously, I’d challenge any independent production company to compete in the blockbuster sandbox. I guarantee they couldn’t compete and would be dead within five years).

    You should write Bond 26….

    But since you will say no I still say if they are unsure where to go the obvious answer as always is GO BACK TO FLEMING….

    Again let’s take what many consider a weaker book like diamonds are forever readapting that’s for modern audiences woukd be fine as gangster films seem to be on the rise/more popular today

    I know Bond vs the Spangled mob is not on everyone’s bucket list but it will be good and well well
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Not all of Fleming’s material was gold. Why use the Spangled mob when you can write a newer and more compelling villain?
  • Posts: 9,847
    Not all of Fleming’s material was gold. Why use the Spangled mob when you can write a newer and more compelling villain?

    Because mob movies are in :)
  • Posts: 12,473
    I’m the kind of person that has to see / do everything for completion sake, so even if a new Bond movie looked terrible for whatever reason, I’d have to watch it at least once. Because I’m younger QOS was my first one at the theater, which was the first one to come out since I became a fan, and I don’t plan on missing any.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited March 2023 Posts: 8,399
    In a little over a month's time things should be a lot clearer. If the writers strike goes ahead at least we'll know not to get excited about news for the foreseeable future, and we can fully prepare ourselves to be in for the long haul.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited March 2023 Posts: 6,304
    Red_Snow wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    But @Mendes4Lyfe , I’m not talking about your personal tastes in a film.

    Should EoN take the time they need to develop a script? Or;

    Even if the story is in trouble (like Spectre), should they still release anyway— to hit their three year release mandate?

    I understand the film production process takes longer these days, but writing a script? Come on, EON have had a few years since NTTD was in post to start developing ideas for the next Bond script.

    I cannot believe all EON have right now is a blank sheet of paper with no story ideas for the next one, or even a half finished script in development, and they've happily been in this position for a couple of years, with no urgency to start writing the next one.

    MGW always says when starting the next Bond film they look at what the next big global threat is. Going by that, since NTTD was released the world has changed enormously. Whatever they thought the biggest threat was, would have been scrapped partially if not entirely when Russia re-booted it's invasion of Ukraine and geo-political alliances changed over night, and if they really have their finger on the pulse, the sudden and astronomical rise of A.I. would definitely be something they're watching with interest.

    Going by that, it's quite possible they'd have re-started the script three times by now.

    +1. You are correct. This is always MGW's approach.

    I think Eon will go back to Fleming as their template for Bond 26, and to MR specifically.

    Eon will think about the success of CR: how it was a close adaptation of Fleming, how there was a major gambling sequence, and how strong the story was, not caring that the story had already been adapted twice.

    If Eon is trying to recapture the CR magic in a bottle, all signs point to MR.
  • Posts: 2,161
    echo wrote: »
    If Eon is trying to recapture the CR magic in a bottle, all signs point to MR.

    I had the same thought.
  • Posts: 17,756
    peter wrote: »
    @Torgeirtrap it’s an excellent book and we are hoping to be in front of cameras by summer or fall!

    That's fantastic! I hope you get the chance to document some behind the scenes stuff on Instagram :)
  • peterpeter Toronto
    edited March 2023 Posts: 9,509
    @Torgeirtrap

    I lost my original account— it was hacked!!!

    So I started to document the writing process on my new IG… And will continue posting through the process!!

    But like EoN, and everyone else: lots of news to share that’s interesting, then…. Lots of radio silence where a lot is going on, but the machinations of the minutiae are not “newsworthy”…

    Join me at peter.d.sheldrick

    Just let me k ow you’re following is all I ask, 😂
  • Posts: 1,993
    I have seen every Bond film made in a theatre, but none has provided the excitement of the first four films, 1962, 63, 64, 65. Perhaps because I was still in high school and my adolescent hormones were raging. There had been no other films like them.

    YOLT ended the excitement along with adolescence. Sixty years on I haven't given up on Bond films, but they haven't left me shaken and stirred. Good ones here and there, but uneven. And never ever as shattering as those first four.

    For many, especially younger Bond fans, those early films must seem awfully crude, not vulgar, just crudely made. Like The Beatles, those early films burst onto the scene and burned bright for a while. Perhaps because they became familiar and predictable the new wore off. I don't share the opinion that Bond needs to return to the sixties. Even the old Bonds evolved. Note SC's clothing styles in DAF. But it won't be enough that the next Bond will younger and contemporary.

    Much has been speculated about a lighter Bond after Craig. But that can be taken too far, as in the RM series. Humor in the face of danger robs danger of its believability.

    I want to be wowed again. I want to be moved by a big, brassy title song. Not old school, not Shirley Bassey. But something that says, "Hold on to your hat." I want a stylish Bond who owns the role instead of renting it. I want wit, not silly quips. I want a pulse pounding opening. I want to be excited by a Bond film again, not just glad there is a new Bond film.

    Don't cock it up.

  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    CrabKey wrote: »
    I have seen every Bond film made in a theatre, but none has provided the excitement of the first four films, 1962, 63, 64, 65. Perhaps because I was still in high school and my adolescent hormones were raging. There had been no other films like them.

    YOLT ended the excitement along with adolescence. Sixty years on I haven't given up on Bond films, but they haven't left me shaken and stirred. Good ones here and there, but uneven. And never ever as shattering as those first four.

    For many, especially younger Bond fans, those early films must seem awfully crude, not vulgar, just crudely made. Like The Beatles, those early films burst onto the scene and burned bright for a while. Perhaps because they became familiar and predictable the new wore off. I don't share the opinion that Bond needs to return to the sixties. Even the old Bonds evolved. Note SC's clothing styles in DAF. But it won't be enough that the next Bond will younger and contemporary.

    Much has been speculated about a lighter Bond after Craig. But that can be taken too far, as in the RM series. Humor in the face of danger robs danger of its believability.

    I want to be wowed again. I want to be moved by a big, brassy title song. Not old school, not Shirley Bassey. But something that says, "Hold on to your hat." I want a stylish Bond who owns the role instead of renting it. I want wit, not silly quips. I want a pulse pounding opening. I want to be excited by a Bond film again, not just glad there is a new Bond film.

    Don't cock it up.

    George Lazenby
    is
    James Bond
    in
    Don't Cock It Up
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    I wasn’t born in the original era but it was that era that my dad educated me on. To this day, the first four films are still magical— that’s why I’d never want to go back and try and capture that period. It’d be nothing but a poor facsimile of the actual movie magic of the original films.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    There have been only a few high points since the original 4 films when Bond dominated the culture again. I'd argue those are: maybe DAF, TSWLM, possibly GE, CR, and SF.

    Until Craig, no Bond actor came even close to Connery in cultural significance.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited March 2023 Posts: 8,399
    Eh? Brosnan had a whole campaign to become Bond willed into existence from the general public seeing him as perfect for the role (and in the days before the Internet, mind you).

  • Posts: 17,756
    peter wrote: »
    @Torgeirtrap

    I lost my original account— it was hacked!!!

    So I started to document the writing process on my new IG… And will continue posting through the process!!

    But like EoN, and everyone else: lots of news to share that’s interesting, then…. Lots of radio silence where a lot is going on, but the machinations of the minutiae are not “newsworthy”…

    Join me at peter.d.sheldrick

    Just let me k ow you’re following is all I ask, 😂

    Oh my, didn't know that! I know people who have got their accounts hacked, so I guess you can't be too careful. Anyway, you've got a new follower!
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    peter wrote: »
    @Torgeirtrap

    I lost my original account— it was hacked!!!

    So I started to document the writing process on my new IG… And will continue posting through the process!!

    But like EoN, and everyone else: lots of news to share that’s interesting, then…. Lots of radio silence where a lot is going on, but the machinations of the minutiae are not “newsworthy”…

    Join me at peter.d.sheldrick

    Just let me k ow you’re following is all I ask, 😂

    Oh my, didn't know that! I know people who have got their accounts hacked, so I guess you can't be too careful. Anyway, you've got a new follower!

    @Torgeirtrap … yep I got rope-a-doped… someone contacting me about being a writer influencer. I went on what I thought was a petition, and that was it.

    Learned my lesson.

  • edited March 2023 Posts: 17,756
    peter wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    @Torgeirtrap

    I lost my original account— it was hacked!!!

    So I started to document the writing process on my new IG… And will continue posting through the process!!

    But like EoN, and everyone else: lots of news to share that’s interesting, then…. Lots of radio silence where a lot is going on, but the machinations of the minutiae are not “newsworthy”…

    Join me at peter.d.sheldrick

    Just let me k ow you’re following is all I ask, 😂

    Oh my, didn't know that! I know people who have got their accounts hacked, so I guess you can't be too careful. Anyway, you've got a new follower!

    @Torgeirtrap … yep I got rope-a-doped… someone contacting me about being a writer influencer. I went on what I thought was a petition, and that was it.

    Learned my lesson.

    Scams can be very smart these days, rather than the ridiculous stuff you'd never fall for in the past. It's actually impressive how clever these scams can be!

    (Sorry for going off topic, everyone!)
  • Posts: 1,630
    Not all of Fleming’s material was gold. Why use the Spangled mob when you can write a newer and more compelling villain?

    Indeed. Very weak villain, plot, etc. Would not happen again until TSWLM, which was deliberately a different sort of story, but even that one had better villains. The next time there was a villain and plot that weak in the books was TMWTGG. Some of the books, if folllowed, would not serve well as films.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    peter wrote: »
    I wasn’t born in the original era but it was that era that my dad educated me on. To this day, the first four films are still magical— that’s why I’d never want to go back and try and capture that period. It’d be nothing but a poor facsimile of the actual movie magic of the original films.

    This exactly mate. There's something truly special about those first four films
  • JustJamesJustJames London
    Posts: 216
    Have just realised that the only Bond film I have ever seen in the Cinema was TND, and I nearly walked out of that because the missile in the white knight sequence was an early trigger for vertigo/fear of heights combo that got me later.

    So, do I have to hand in my badge and gun?
  • Posts: 944
    In this day and age you know it's gonna be a demasculated Bond.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,789
    For me, only the 60's films where Bond is a trademark, the original, an icon.
    Because it keeps the signature while bringing in the essence of Fleming, that's why there's the originality.

    From the 70's onwards, Bond had became the shadow of its glory days, the essence was no longer there, Bond is no longer the trademark, it's like a Fashion Brand that died out so easily after inspiring some new trends, Bond was just copying those films that dethroned him from the spotlight, in short, replicating the same essence of those big blockbusters at the time.

    Maybe, if one may think of it, Lazenby's agent was at somehow, right, Bond and the spy genre did really died after the 60's, he'd made a decent argument for that.

    Bond, in terms of dominating the trends, never seemed to recover again.

    Now, that's what I would liked to see, two things for me to expect since Babs and MGW are busy on reinventing the character: either it could be trying to reclaim the glory (which I'm expecting and hoping at some point), or just continue in what they're doing of serving what the trend had set by another film.

    I'm hoping for the former, not to the latter.
  • timdalton007timdalton007 North Alabama
    Posts: 155
    peter wrote: »
    I wasn’t born in the original era but it was that era that my dad educated me on. To this day, the first four films are still magical— that’s why I’d never want to go back and try and capture that period. It’d be nothing but a poor facsimile of the actual movie magic of the original films.
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    For me, only the 60's films where Bond is a trademark, the original, an icon.
    Because it keeps the signature while bringing in the essence of Fleming, that's why there's the originality.

    From the 70's onwards, Bond had became the shadow of its glory days, the essence was no longer there, Bond is no longer the trademark, it's like a Fashion Brand that died out so easily after inspiring some new trends, Bond was just copying those films that dethroned him from the spotlight, in short, replicating the same essence of those big blockbusters at the time.

    Maybe, if one may think of it, Lazenby's agent was at somehow, right, Bond and the spy genre did really died after the 60's, he'd made a decent argument for that.

    Bond, in terms of dominating the trends, never seemed to recover again.

    Now, that's what I would liked to see, two things for me to expect since Babs and MGW are busy on reinventing the character: either it could be trying to reclaim the glory (which I'm expecting and hoping at some point), or just continue in what they're doing of serving what the trend had set by another film.

    I'm hoping for the former, not to the latter.

    The gulf between these posts and their approaches to the next Bond era are massive. And irreconcilable, for that matter. Though I’m more inclined to agree with @peter, which also acknowledges that while Bond as a franchise hasn’t always been a trendsetter as it was in the sixties, it has seen off and outlived plenty of trends that led others into dead ends as “the next big thing.”

    I get the nostalgia for those early films (he says with Thunderball being his favorite Bond film and having just been replaying parts of the FRWL video game), but the past is the past for a reason. I get that a return to the sixties era has its appeal to the long time Bond enthusiast, but does it appeal to anyone else? In the last few years, we’ve had two big budget retro spy films flop and flip pretty hard (The Man From UNCLE and The King’s Man). You can read the reaction to The King’s Man) especially as a warning against doing the same for Bond, given the modern-day setting of that series before it went back in time. Indeed, the only successful retro spy film I can think of is 2011’s Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy adaptation which had both an all-star cast and a budget the fraction of a Bond film or those two aforementioned flops.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,216
    I think a return to the 60s is possible, but only if it were to be approached with 100% sincerity and not a hint of homage or parody. It would not be easy and would require an incredibly skilled filmmaker.
  • Posts: 1,860
    Just out of interest, what was the last new Bond film you didn’t see at the cinema?

    And would really bad reviews and word of mouth or bad casting for Bond himself keep you from going to see the next Bond film?

    The last Bond film I didn’t see at the cinema was Octopussy, but I seriously considered missing No Time to Die because I had hated Spectre, I felt killing off Bond was a cheap move and didn’t like the idea of rebooting continuity again.

    I wouldn’t skip the next film for a casting decision I didn’t like, but I would skip it if word of mouth was bad and I didn’t like the actor cast.

    In addition to your question, has everybody seen EVERY Bond film in a theater? original release, revival theater, museum showing, special screening etc. I can't imagine only having watched a Bond film on a TV.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Eh? Brosnan had a whole campaign to become Bond willed into existence from the general public seeing him as perfect for the role (and in the days before the Internet, mind you).

    Yet none of his films hit the stratosphere the way Connery and Craig’s have on first release. GE did exceptionally well on the 60th anniversary re-release, whereas his latter three films dropped like bricks. I was genuinely surprised by that because I was positive that all of Brosnan’s four films would have powered through on nostalgia alone, but it was only GE.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited March 2023 Posts: 3,789
    What I meant in my post was the cash in of trends just think of the Moore films for example heavily inspired by such trends in each years:

    1. Live And Let Die being inspired by the Blaxploitation

    2. The Man With The Golden Gun being inspired by those Kung Fu, Karate Martial Arts, Chinese 70's action.

    3. The Spy Who Loved Me inspired by Lawrence of Arabia, and Jaws.

    Moonraker by Star Wars, Licence To Kil by Miami Vice/Lethal Weapon action 80's TV shows.

    Now the Craig films being inspired by Bourne, Marvel, and Dark Knight.

    I hope in the next Era of Bond (Bond 26 onwards) there would be no like this.

    And dare I say it, The Bond films has always reminded me of the other films!

    Let Bond had its own style again! Like how the 60's Bond films had its sort of originality in them but at the same time putting in the Fleming spirit.

    The originality is what I've missed.

    I have no problem with Bond in the modern world, I prefer that too, but please, have some originality, don't make me think of other films when watching Bond films.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited March 2023 Posts: 8,188
    For what it’s worth, SKYFALL actually set a trend with its visually stylized action filmmaking. JOHN WICK basically took that style and ran with it big time.

    DwfBWe1VAAA2QYj.jpg
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