Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • Posts: 1,986
    SPECTRE builds things. Employees thousands seemingly without much outside oversight or attention. Anyone notice the construction going on at Crab Key or the volcano in Japan? So, yes the building in London is consistent with the SPECTRE MO. Who was in on it, blackmailed, or duped, well, not much time to develop that plot strand.

    I hope SPECTRE and ESB can be given a rest for a while. I'm ready for a Bond film in which MI6's computer system isn't hacked or doesn't go down. Nor Bond being handed gadgets that predict the exact kind of dicey situation he'll find himself in. As a potential storyline, AI already feels hackneyed. Had quite enough of smart blood and chips implanted in Bond's body.

    I wrote elsewhere I'd like a Bond film where he finds himself in a situation without gadgets and phones. Something more of a thriller reminiscent of Hitchcock.

    I don't thinking writing the next Bond film will be easy. After 25 films, finding a new direction and plots that feel fresh will be challenge.



  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    They should have had a long mustache on C, that way Scott could twirl it whilst thinking of his dastardly plans-- just incase the audience didn't "get" that he was a villain 🙄
  • Posts: 1,986
    peter wrote: »
    They should have had a long mustache on C, that way Scott could twirl it whilst thinking of his dastardly plans-- just incase the audience didn't "get" that he was a villain 🙄

    After seeing his Moriarty, one knew what was coming.

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited May 2023 Posts: 16,383
    007HallY wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Yes I'm not a massive fan of Scott.

    Yeah, it's a very on the nose casting choice. But quite frankly I've never been a fan of his in general.

    I do wonder if any of these ideas will be adapted or make their way into Bond 26. It might be interesting, for example, seeing a version of the 00 section that's been more recently formed/is less established and is at odds with other people within MI6 for various reasons. Heck, even the 'fraudster coming in and shaking up the MI6 system for their own benefit' could be redone in that sort of scenario.

    Yes, I have been thinking that a reinvention of the Double 0s and/or M's place in MI6 (as in Carte Blanche where he's not the head of MI6 but just of the 00s) could be a way to approach the next version of Bond. Maybe show M building the 00 section and approaching Bond to join.

    CrabKey wrote: »
    SPECTRE builds things. Employees thousands seemingly without much outside oversight or attention. Anyone notice the construction going on at Crab Key or the volcano in Japan? So, yes the building in London is consistent with the SPECTRE MO.

    Those aren't in the middle of London though! It's a touch busier there :D
    And it's less about no-one noticing it: more that it's very hard to build a skyscraper in a few months, let alone in one of the busier cities on the planet where you'd have to purchase and demolish a load of pre-existing buildings on the site first.
  • edited May 2023 Posts: 4,139
    peter wrote: »
    They should have had a long mustache on C, that way Scott could twirl it whilst thinking of his dastardly plans-- just incase the audience didn't "get" that he was a villain 🙄

    To be completely fair I don't think C being a villain was ever meant to be a 'twist' as such. He's at the very least set up as an antagonist, which may have been why they felt it appropriate to cast Scott in the first place.

    But I agree. It's a dull casting decision ultimately and a wasted character.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    I was mainly talking about his performance, @CrabKey and @007HallY ...He was being so obvious in everything he did.

    He was as subtle as a sledgehammer to the head.

  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
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  • edited May 2023 Posts: 133
    I think Andrew Scott is a good actor. He was good in his episode in "Black Mirror" and awesome in "Sherlock".
    I think the problem in SP was mostly the script, not his performance. I wish he could have been cast as the main bad guy in a Bond movie with a better script.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,383
    peter wrote: »
    I was mainly talking about his performance, @CrabKey and @007HallY ...He was being so obvious in everything he did.

    He was as subtle as a sledgehammer to the head.

    Yeah I always thought that as Moriarty he did a pretty poor job. Doing that sort of Joker-style 'I'm mad me' is the kind of thing you see in a lot of US action B movies and a lot of actors seem to think they can do it, but it takes real talent to pull it off well (see most of the actors who have actually played the Joker in the movies).
    I actually thought that John Simm in Dr Who as the Master did it incredibly well- which I only mention because Sherlock and Dr Who were so closely related and Moriarty appeared immediately after Simm's Master did.

    I like to imagine Hugh Grant playing C: imagine how good that would have been and how much stronger he'd be in it.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    edited May 2023 Posts: 9,509
    I like to imagine Hugh Grant playing C: imagine how good that would have been and how much stronger he'd be in it.

    Great suggestion. He’d have added quite a bit of nuance and layers to the character.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    peter wrote: »
    Continuing to watch Skyfall… I’m at the hearing scene, where Bond comes to save the day: Craig, like Connery, is such a physical actor. And Craig, more so than Connery; my wife is a Masters Level Pilates and Movement Specialist ; every time she sees Craig move she always comments how he “moves with purpose; he’s always engaged, in tune. Whatever he feels, his body moves in the emotional pattern (of the nervous system)”.

    High praise, that I wholly agree with.

    Combining his physical work, with the abundance of artistic talent…. Who is ready to take over— not just the character, but Craig’s shadow?…. The next actor, beyond anything, has to be FEARLESS…

    The real trick is to find an actor that’s different enough that you can’t imagine Craig playing the role like the new guy. That’s how Roger Moore succeeded after following Connery. He couldn’t have done what Connery did in the 60s, but he brought something unique to the part that made it his own.

    In a sense, they should look for a guy who could only work for the films they’ll want to make, rather than who could have worked in Craig’s films.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @MakeshiftPython , absolutely…
  • edited May 2023 Posts: 4,139
    peter wrote: »
    I was mainly talking about his performance, @CrabKey and @007HallY ...He was being so obvious in everything he did.

    He was as subtle as a sledgehammer to the head.

    Ah fair enough. And yes, that's very accurate, haha.
    mtm wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    I was mainly talking about his performance, @CrabKey and @007HallY ...He was being so obvious in everything he did.

    He was as subtle as a sledgehammer to the head.

    Yeah I always thought that as Moriarty he did a pretty poor job. Doing that sort of Joker-style 'I'm mad me' is the kind of thing you see in a lot of US action B movies and a lot of actors seem to think they can do it, but it takes real talent to pull it off well (see most of the actors who have actually played the Joker in the movies).
    I actually thought that John Simm in Dr Who as the Master did it incredibly well- which I only mention because Sherlock and Dr Who were so closely related and Moriarty appeared immediately after Simm's Master did.

    I like to imagine Hugh Grant playing C: imagine how good that would have been and how much stronger he'd be in it.

    That'd work. It would definitely play up the idea that C can win people over with his charm, which makes sense for the character.

    Can also see John Simm playing the role now that you mention him. I can see him better playing up the more obsessive and quietly sinister qualities of C, which I think also would have done the character more justice. Underrated actor too, and while he's great as The Master I liked him in Life On Mars especially.
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 942
    It was actually Chiwetel Ejiofor that was originally sought for the role, iirc.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,297
    peter wrote: »
    I like to imagine Hugh Grant playing C: imagine how good that would have been and how much stronger he'd be in it.

    Great suggestion. He’d have added quite a bit of nuance and layers to the character.

    Or bring back Helen McCrory from SF to do it. What a great actress. RIP.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,383
    It was actually Chiwetel Ejiofor that was originally sought for the role, iirc.

    Yeah he'd have been decent. I'm increasingly coming around to the idea that he overacts a bit. Still, better than Scott.
    echo wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    I like to imagine Hugh Grant playing C: imagine how good that would have been and how much stronger he'd be in it.

    Great suggestion. He’d have added quite a bit of nuance and layers to the character.

    Or bring back Helen McCrory from SF to do it. What a great actress. RIP.

    Oh yes please; wow she should have been a Bond villain. Gone way too soon.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    Yes, having seen McCrory do a pretty good job of luring Dalton onto the rocks in Penny Dreadful, she'd've made a great (and less obvious) C.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,383
    Yes that's my fantasy version of Spectre now, with McCrory's minister from SF somehow turning into the boss of MI5 (wouldn't make any sense but never mind!).
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,135
    mtm wrote: »
    Yes that's my fantasy version of Spectre now, with McCrory's minister from SF somehow turning into the boss of MI5 (wouldn't make any sense but never mind!).

    When have things in Bond films ever had to make sense? ;)
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,789
    The James Bond 007 FB page has changed their timeline:

    346045641_569205278651341_3821178184882432739_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=e3f864&_nc_eui2=AeFnmDJgjyxjEVUoQW1MNTvVldfmkVuG7OiV1-aRW4bs6MtrHF1itL_kyq3JwTDcmLYLhl73Gf6d1JB5ZLB3RDH2&_nc_ohc=4NJex6f80v4AX-YREaJ&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fmnl13-1.fna&oh=00_AfBjN1shEurJ40-R-3FwzpYQlJafusCasO4gGTYKWbWYMQ&oe=646258D7


    Is this the sign that they're now working on Bond 26? Hmmmm 🤔
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,383
    Yes I posted about that in the fan art thread: it’s funnily quite close to my artwork! :D
    I think it’s more of a sign that they’re positioning to cover all of the history of 007 and that Craig has joined the ranks of past Bonds: I wouldn’t read anything more into it.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    To me that's already the lasting legacy of SP: It's the ultimate "If only" film. If only they'd tied up this plot string a bit better. If only they'd cast this actor instead of that. If only they'd used this location. Because it has so many solid starting points and then whiffs on so many of them. Most other films are either jumbled from beginning to end or just good enough that many fans will go "No, I like it better the way it is". Talking about SP basically every Bond film is willing to indulge in a little bit of fanfiction.
    CrabKey wrote: »
    I hope SPECTRE and ESB can be given a rest for a while. I'm ready for a Bond film in which MI6's computer system isn't hacked or doesn't go down. Nor Bond being handed gadgets that predict the exact kind of dicey situation he'll find himself in. As a potential storyline, AI already feels hackneyed. Had quite enough of smart blood and chips implanted in Bond's body.

    I wrote elsewhere I'd like a Bond film where he finds himself in a situation without gadgets and phones. Something more of a thriller reminiscent of Hitchcock.

    I don't thinking writing the next Bond film will be easy. After 25 films, finding a new direction and plots that feel fresh will be challenge.

    I'd take a film like that. They'd have to come up with a good reason why he doesn't have any tech on him, but that should be doable.

    On the whole, however, I am kind of on the other side of the spectrum: I want him to use tech more naturally. I've written this somewhere else, but there is so much tech a spy like Bond could just use out of the box and it'd be interesting. You don't need some crazy invention by Q branch that obviously only works in one situation that Bond miraculously comes into later.
    Maybe it's a bit mundane, but I can easily listen in on people who think I can't hear them on the train or wherever, because my noise cancelling headphones have a mode that enhances outside noises instead of lowering it. Easy little spy scene right there (maybe have Q put in a stronger directional microphone so Bond can listen in on someone on the other side of the room) and you can even get a product placement deal out of it.
    Same with phones. Yeah, you can just make up a fantasy app that does the one thing Bond needs, but you can also do stuff people in the world already do. Secure messaging apps like Signal let you exchange personalized codes with a contact to make sure the person you are messaging with is who you think they are. Not super sexy, but just a small, realistic security thing. I think it was on BlackBerrys that you could have like a separate work and private profile so your work stuff couldn't be compromised by your private stuff. You could easily imagine Bond's phone being able to shuffle through different cover profiles and a little thriller or comedy scene based around that.
    There are so many little tech things they could do that aren't "and then a chainsaw comes out of his belt buckle!" (and even if you'd want that, phone bomb is the most obvious little gadget you could imagine)
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,383
    To me that's already the lasting legacy of SP: It's the ultimate "If only" film. If only they'd tied up this plot string a bit better. If only they'd cast this actor instead of that. If only they'd used this location. Because it has so many solid starting points and then whiffs on so many of them. Most other films are either jumbled from beginning to end or just good enough that many fans will go "No, I like it better the way it is". Talking about SP basically every Bond film is willing to indulge in a little bit of fanfiction.

    Yeah that’s well-put. There is a really good Bond film in there somewhere struggling to get out.
  • Posts: 4,139
    To me that's already the lasting legacy of SP: It's the ultimate "If only" film. If only they'd tied up this plot string a bit better. If only they'd cast this actor instead of that. If only they'd used this location. Because it has so many solid starting points and then whiffs on so many of them. Most other films are either jumbled from beginning to end or just good enough that many fans will go "No, I like it better the way it is". Talking about SP basically every Bond film is willing to indulge in a little bit of fanfiction.

    For me it's a toss up between SP and TMWTGG as the ultimate 'what if' films of the franchise. It's actually kind of exciting coming up with alternative versions of both films in the sense that not only are they much more interesting, but often I find these ideas could be the basis for different films entirely (sort of like how DAD used elements of DAF - not quite a remake but definitely revising basic ideas).
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited May 2023 Posts: 16,383
    I agree with that- I think SP is one or two drafts away from being good and pretty much of all the elements are there; whereas on the other hand Golden Gun has Lee as Scaramanga and the really nice idea of the setup with Andrea hooking Bond in with the bullet and Bond's subsequent investigation with Lazar (and some nice little details like the Queen Mary base etc.), but everything else could really be chucked in the bin and started from afresh. So they're in two different positions, but I agree that it's fun to think of alternative versions.
    Spectre is the trickier of the two for me, because when I see all of the plot beats written down, I quite like them! I don't actually know how to fix it and I don't really know why it doesn't work. I would love to read a master scriptwriter do an analysis and point out where the story goes wrong; I find that stuff fascinating.

    Andrew Ellard is a scriptwriter who always gives interesting takes:

    https://ellardent.medium.com/tweetnotes-extra-spectre-b34a41ebf5f8

    https://ellardent.medium.com/tweetnotes-spectre-1f2357c1392f

  • George_KaplanGeorge_Kaplan Being chauffeured by Tibbett
    edited May 2023 Posts: 682
    I think TWINE also had a lot of unrealised potential. The idea of Bond being manipulated by a female villain is a great hook and if they'd just leaned into it more, and been more willing to stray from the Bond formula, they could've really deconstructed the character in a way we'd never seen before.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited May 2023 Posts: 16,383
    Yes, I think TWINE (and DAD actually) have really quite good stories and plots- certainly some of the most inventive 007 had had in quite some years, and are let down by the direction and realisation more than anything.
  • Posts: 4,139
    I think TWINE also had a lot of unrealised potential. The idea of Bond being manipulated by a female villain is a great hook and if they'd just leaned into it more, and been more willing to stray from the Bond formula, they could've really deconstructed the character in a way we'd never seen before.

    I'm sure the producers were aware of TWINE's faults/untapped potential considering how much of its ideas were reworked in SF.
    mtm wrote: »
    I agree with that- I think SP is one or two drafts away from being good and pretty much of all the elements are there; whereas on the other hand Golden Gun has Lee as Scaramanga and the really nice idea of the setup with Andrea hooking Bond in with the bullet and Bond's subsequent investigation with Lazar (and some nice little details like the Queen Mary base etc.), but everything else could really be chucked in the bin and started from afresh. So they're in two different positions, but I agree that it's fun to think of alternative versions.
    Spectre is the trickier of the two for me, because when I see all of the plot beats written down, I quite like them! I don't actually know how to fix it and I don't really know why it doesn't work. I would love to read a master scriptwriter do an analysis and point out where the story goes wrong; I find that stuff fascinating.

    Andrew Ellard is a scriptwriter who always gives interesting takes:

    https://ellardent.medium.com/tweetnotes-extra-spectre-b34a41ebf5f8

    https://ellardent.medium.com/tweetnotes-spectre-1f2357c1392f

    Nice, some interesting stuff there from a quick read.

    I get what you mean about TMWTGG. Still, it's one of those Bond films that I'd like to see them take elements from and 'have another go at' in the same way SF did with major ideas from TWINE.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,383
    007HallY wrote: »

    I get what you mean about TMWTGG. Still, it's one of those Bond films that I'd like to see them take elements from and 'have another go at' in the same way SF did with major ideas from TWINE.

    Yeah definitely. I think the only problem is it's really hard to improve upon the specific iconography of the Man with the Golden Gun. Considering how it's one of the weakest Bonds it's amazing how well-remembered Scaramanga is, and I think that's down to Lee and the general coolness of the gun itself, a gadget assembled from bits and pieces. He really is the alt Bond, and if they revisited it I'd almost like them to just go the whole hog and remake it (which is essentially what they did with Blofeld in Spectre I guess.. ). Or give him his own spinoff.
  • I’ve always felt that TWINE was a stepping stone for the types of stories EON would tell with Craig’s Bond.
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