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It did amuse me seeing an article where Ryan Gosling described his Gray Man character as a "blue collar Bond". In other words, every other generic American action hero from the past 40-years?
In a business though, transactions are the name of the game. And that’s how it works here: we pay and they sell us something. I don’t feel I’m owed more than I paid for.
I’m sure they’re very appreciative of all the love the series engenders, but I hope they don’t feel they owe anything: they built the series themselves and we love it because of their effort and talent. I’m not doing anyone a favour by enjoying something that’s good. I like it for me! :)
Also I’m not sure it is the fans that built its success: I don’t think the fanbase is very big compared to the number of people who watch these things. They’re a real mass market appeal, not for the fans.
I partly agree with you on that. Once we pay for a product, we make the decision ourselves to invest in whatever it may be, so it’s not EON’s problem if we don’t like it. But at the end of the day, I just highly doubt EON intentionally disregards their fans with the “we don’t owe you anything” mentality. I always think of what Cubby Broccoli said; “We have an audience asking us, begging us, to make another Bond picture” and he always delivered, and the same is true for Barbara Broccoli. I’m sure they are well aware of what the fans want; I wouldn’t be surprised if someone who worked for EON is scrolling on this very forum right now. I pointed out the Goldeneye 64 re-release earlier as an example, that wouldn’t have happened without a push from the fan community I’d imagine.
But equally that means they won't necessarily pander to fans; see dumping Pierce or killing Bond- they'll do what they think is right.
Nor should they pander to fans!
Exactly. Besides, these are forums, they are somewhat meant for expressing this sort of feelings. No mummy lectures needed, I quite agree.
The last Bond film outgrossed the last projects from two of the three names mentioned there by quite a considerable margin, so it's not exactly languishing in the shadows.
But this competition has been escalating, and, especially in the late 80s, 007 and EoN almost buckled under the weight of the new action films starring Batman or Indy or Riggs and Murtaugh or McClane or anything Arnold and Sly did.
The only difference: back then it was the media saying Bond is failing.
Now it's fans like you (after EoN has delivered arguably the most critically acclaimed and financially successful era since Connery... )... Like I said yesterday: I know it when I read it....
@peter You seem to be under the impression that we're arguing from different perspectives but to my eyes we're very much on the same page. You draw a parallel between today and bond of the eighties, and I quite agree - it does feel like we're back in that space, bond being sidelined as merely one player in a crowded ring of star power and burgeoning IP.
The 70's Moore glow had worn off and the series kinda just coasted for a while. Things were definitely getting stale with A View To A Kill, and also License To Kill, which is why they had to be brought roaring back into life with Goldeneye and Martin Campbell.
The point is its fine to admit we're in a low point, but we shouldn't be pleased about it. We should be looking for that horizon, when the next vision arrives and sets things right again. It's fine to accept where we are, and point out the fact that serious changes need to be made and EON need to pull their finger out. When the bourne films started coming out, EON took notice. When Christopher Nolan revolutionised superhero movies with the dark knight trilogy, EON took notice. Its about time EON took notice of the latest generation of juggernaut action blockbusters and muster a response that actually goes toe to toe with them.
Bond is being beaten out by the competition, just like you say, and that also was the case in the 80's - I agree. But that's not where we should want to be as fans, especially as bond basically invented the genre to begin with. I've said it before, but Bond 26 needs to be a film that proves the point that bond is still the top dog, just like The Spy Who Loved Me and Goldeneye. It HAS to embrace that core bond essence that people have been missing, it has to have that old-school swagger that people still think of when they think of Bond.
I am a fan of MI and JOHN WICK but nothing would make me happier than for Bond 26 to completely embarass them and make them look like child's play, just like they have made bond look for audiences in recent years. Every bond leaves an impact which is felt through the generations that come after, you can't turn back the clock, but they have to escape this narrative cul de sac they've hemmed themselves into by approaching every film as a deep exploration of Bonds psyche and innermost thoughts. There's so much space to explore for Bond on the big screen which don't have anything to do with that. You can have playful, vibrant films which don't involve bond cradeling a loved one dying in his arms even once. This is why I quietly champion Edgar Wright for being the ideal choiceto direct, because his films are extremely irreverent, and often times downright silly, and yet simon peggs character in hot fuzz is still a fully believable character with depth and flaws, which he overcomes through the course of the film. But they need to hire proper action/big scale directors and not last years oscar nominees. My worry is that instead to fighting back against the contenders, EON will simply concede the ground of action spectacle to the MI and JOHN WICK series and continue down the path of making films catering more to leftwing journos and art critics than general audiences, and the boxoffice figures will continue to fade as people simply plump for the alternatives.
I merely stated competition has been escalating, especially since the late 80s. However Mendes, unlike the 80s Bond, today 007 has survived all of those heroes of the past, plus beat Bourne, and is remarkably competitive in the present day market!!
You may not have liked the Craig films, but there’s no denying that EoN delivered its most consistently acclaimed era (financially AND critically), since Connery.
How are we in a low-time for Bond?
Once again, read articles and posts more than once…
Yes we have longer breaks between films, and we have to put up with a re-invention of the character with each actor too take on the iconic role.
But unlike any other franchise, Bond is a standalone. He doesn't have to conform to the Disney way of doing things like Star Wars or Indiana Jones, he's not stuck in a series like Mission Impossible (which I love and respect) that relies on Tom Cruise, and has no future without his ability to wow with insane stuntwork.
When we get a new Bond film, it's an event movie. It makes people excited, and not just us Bond fans. EON are still the only production company that control the majority of what they produce. Would I like to see a Bond film every other year like we had in the past. Of course I would.
Am I content to have EON in charge of the series? Yes, yes I am.
Well said
These gaps are consistent with recent Bond pacing.
Right.
The shortest gap was between ROGUE NATION and FALLOUT by three years, and that’s the only time it happened.
Barbara and Michael gets a ton of flack by some fans for not making as many movies as Cubby did. They’ve only made 9 since they took over. Yet, Cruise has only made 7 to this year, but no one seems to complain about that.
WHY DOES CRUISE HATE HIS FANS?! WHY IS HE MAKING MOVIES IN BETWEEN?!
Yep. It’s exhausting to read, and I’m more an idiot for even responding; it’s the definition of madness.
Plus, most of the “facts” that most of these complainers write, are figments of their imaginations (diminishing box office? Even with Covid, Bond hovers around 8 hundred million dollars….)
Yes that's a good point, and he only started a year after Broccoli & Wilson did. And has made less money with MI.