Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,999
    Bond reaches a wider audience, I don't think that's a secret at this point.

    M:I has raised the bar for action (and I don't mean dumb CGI fests like the last few F&F films) since the Ghost Protocol. This is an area where Bond has been sorely lacking for too long. The last memorable action sequence was the free running from CR.
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 951
    The parkour chase is fantastic, but things like the staircase fight in CR, though brief, is good because it feels like a genuine threat to Bond. Same goes for the brutal bathroom fight in the CR pre-titles.

    For the MI films, really only the bathroom fight in Fallout springs to mind as something I look forward to seeing again. They have a lot of great stunts, but I can’t say they stick in my mind much. I think I’m geared more towards fight choreography than spectacular stunts involving vehicles and the like.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,387
    I dunno why James Bond should be worried about
    Just want to point out that between MI1 to MI2 we had four years and then six years to MI3, then five until MI4.

    These gaps are consistent with recent Bond pacing.

    Right.

    The shortest gap was between ROGUE NATION and FALLOUT by three years, and that’s the only time it happened.

    Barbara and Michael gets a ton of flack by some fans for not making as many movies as Cubby did. They’ve only made 9 since they took over. Yet, Cruise has only made 7 to this year, but no one seems to complain about that.

    WHY DOES CRUISE HATE HIS FANS?! WHY IS HE MAKING MOVIES IN BETWEEN?!

    Bond is the granddaddy of spy films and competes each and every time to outdo not only itself, but the entire action marketplace it helped create in the '60s.

    Not to mention, Barbara and Michael do not have the array of Fleming novels (including very popular ones) that Cubby and Harry had to draw from...

    It's apples to oranges.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,606
    echo wrote: »
    I dunno why James Bond should be worried about
    Just want to point out that between MI1 to MI2 we had four years and then six years to MI3, then five until MI4.

    These gaps are consistent with recent Bond pacing.

    Right.

    The shortest gap was between ROGUE NATION and FALLOUT by three years, and that’s the only time it happened.

    Barbara and Michael gets a ton of flack by some fans for not making as many movies as Cubby did. They’ve only made 9 since they took over. Yet, Cruise has only made 7 to this year, but no one seems to complain about that.

    WHY DOES CRUISE HATE HIS FANS?! WHY IS HE MAKING MOVIES IN BETWEEN?!

    Not to mention, Barbara and Michael do not have the array of Fleming novels (including very popular ones) that Cubby and Harry had to draw from...

    Yeah, may I say that, as great as the film is, coming up with the storyline for FRWL was perhaps something which didn't take too long for Saltz'n'Brox! Also, Dr No was obviously a hit, but expectations were perhaps not as wildly high as they are today, after 60 years' worth of successful movies.
  • edited June 2023 Posts: 2,296
    I think if Michael and Barbara started turning these films out like they were on some kind of assembly line, then they would be met with the type of criticism they received during the Brosnan era and people would just be dismissing the films as generic with little to no care gone into them.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,926
    I've mentioned before the producers planned on Bond films Fall 2006, May 2008, and Fall 2010. Events just didn't support that intent.

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,220
    Bond reaches a wider audience, I don't think that's a secret at this point.

    M:I has raised the bar for action (and I don't mean dumb CGI fests like the last few F&F films) since the Ghost Protocol. This is an area where Bond has been sorely lacking for too long. The last memorable action sequence was the free running from CR.

    I can’t say I found much of RN or FALLOUT all that memorable. RN at least had a better opera sequence than QOS. I don’t remember anything from FALLOUT, except for a questionable choice in taking live footage of Cruise doing a HALO jump and slathering it with CGI, which inadvertently made the real stunt feel like a bluescreen production.
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 951
    They were smart enough to get Rebecca Ferguson and keep her, though.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,220
    I didn’t like that they brought her back. I preferred she was a one off character in RN. She worked great that way. FALLOUT cheapened her. It’s like Tom Cruise put up his fantasy of having his exes come to give their blessing over him having a new younger girlfriend. I also didn’t like that they brought back the villain from RN. He was very annoying with his raspy whispery voice. Him being caught in the glass box should have been the last we saw of him.

    It remains the only M:I film I’ve had no desire to ever revisit after seeing it in theaters. But it was still marginally better than MI3, aka MARRIAGE: IMPOSSIBLE.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited July 2023 Posts: 6,387
    I find the MI films utterly disposable and forgettable, aside from the first one, which had intrigue and style and the essential casting of Ving Rhames. I recall some stunts, like the helicopter fight on top of the cliffs in Norway or wherever. When I see things like bathroom fights or opera sequences, I think, "Yeah, there's another thing they stole from Bond."

    The MI films have fully embraced the worst aspects of some lesser Bond films--forgettable stories, memorable chiefly for the stunts.

    But Roger Moore did it better and more effortlessly than Cruise.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited July 2023 Posts: 3,800
    Deleted
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,169
    Where does Bond go after Craig?

    Be Bond!
    I don't think it's a good idea to try and outdo MI. No point in trying to get your lead actor to try the insane stunts that Tom Cruise does. Even if he did, then Bond would only be compared to the MI movies. Bond shouldn't be compared to anyone. (Within reason)
    Take Bond back to being a thriller. An spy thriller, with a compelling and interesting story. You don't have to do insane stunts to make a great film. Though well thought out and relevant action is always going to be exciting. And when you do have an action set piece, add in the iconic James Bond theme. It's been sadly lacking from the recent films, and we often only hear it at the end of the film. It's the James Bond theme. Use it!
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,606
    echo wrote: »
    I find the MI films utterly disposable and forgettable, aside from the first one, which had intrigue and style and the essential casting of Ving Rhames. I recall some stunts, like the helicopter fight on top of the cliffs in Norway or wherever. When I see things like bathroom fights or opera sequences, I think, "Yeah, there's another thing they stole from Bond."

    I tend to think the bathroom fight has more in common with True Lies than Bond- the layout of the room even looks pretty similar!
    And when it comes to opera sequences, the one in Rogue Nation knocks the one in QoS into a cocked hat. That is a stunningly well-made, planned and directed set piece, it's brilliant.
    echo wrote: »
    But Roger Moore did it better and more effortlessly than Cruise.

    Aw, I love 'em both. They do different things and have different strengths.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,169
    Please stay on topic @mtm, we have a thread dedicated to Mission Impossible.
    Trying to steer this thread away from other franchises, and where Bond might head going forward. Thanks old chap.
  • Posts: 6,710
    Benny wrote: »
    Where does Bond go after Craig?

    Be Bond!
    I don't think it's a good idea to try and outdo MI. No point in trying to get your lead actor to try the insane stunts that Tom Cruise does. Even if he did, then Bond would only be compared to the MI movies. Bond shouldn't be compared to anyone. (Within reason)
    Take Bond back to being a thriller. An spy thriller, with a compelling and interesting story. You don't have to do insane stunts to make a great film. Though well thought out and relevant action is always going to be exciting. And when you do have an action set piece, add in the iconic James Bond theme. It's been sadly lacking from the recent films, and we often only hear it at the end of the film. It's the James Bond theme. Use it!

    Hear, hear. Great post, @Benny! I wholeheartedly agree with every word.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited July 2023 Posts: 3,158
    Yeah, I agree with Benny. Probably like most of us, I've never watched Bond for the stunts. I like them if they're there, but it's not why I keep coming back and I'd be just as happy with action sequences that didn't involve the unfeasible set-piece stunts. General audiences probably like the spectacle aspect, so I suspect the big stunts will always be there but inserting them to keep up with or try to top other series? Nah.
  • Posts: 2,027
    What was the first Bond stunt?
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,169
    CrabKey wrote: »
    What was the first Bond stunt?

    In Dr. No or the first memorable stunt?
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,387
    CrabKey wrote: »
    What was the first Bond stunt?

    Probably the jetpack in TB.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,999
    Bond reaches a wider audience, I don't think that's a secret at this point.

    M:I has raised the bar for action (and I don't mean dumb CGI fests like the last few F&F films) since the Ghost Protocol. This is an area where Bond has been sorely lacking for too long. The last memorable action sequence was the free running from CR.

    I can’t say I found much of RN or FALLOUT all that memorable. RN at least had a better opera sequence than QOS. I don’t remember anything from FALLOUT, except for a questionable choice in taking live footage of Cruise doing a HALO jump and slathering it with CGI, which inadvertently made the real stunt feel like a bluescreen production.

    The only issue I has with that scene, was Walker removing Ethan's air supply before jumping out. Then when they both land on the roof, Ethan doesn't question it. Surely alarm bells must at been going off like an air raid siren in his air. It's not he is Luther or Benji, he was forced onto the IMF team.

    The highlight of Fallout, at least for me, was the Helicopter chase, from Ethan climbing up the rope, through to the mid air collision.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,800
    echo wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    What was the first Bond stunt?

    Probably the jetpack in TB.

    Is it not the train fight in FRWL?
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,682
    echo wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    What was the first Bond stunt?

    Probably the jetpack in TB.
    Yeah, the jetpack stunt sounds about right.

    I think the first stunt that got the ball rolling, starting the trend of one epic stunt per film was the boat jump over the road in LALD. It set a record for longest jump, and although the AMC Hornet jump in the following film is perhaps known as the first to use a computer algorithm to calculate the speed, angle etc., I read recently that the LALD boat jump had used a computer as well.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,387
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    What was the first Bond stunt?

    Probably the jetpack in TB.

    Is it not the train fight in FRWL?

    I feel like the jetpack is the first stunt-for-stunt's-sake in the series. It's cool but doesn't really make a ton of sense. A stunt by definition is something that is done to generate its own publicity.

    The train fight and the Ft. Knox fight both rise organically from their respective stories, IMHO.
  • edited July 2023 Posts: 2,027
    echo wrote: »
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    What was the first Bond stunt?

    Probably the jetpack in TB.

    Is it not the train fight in FRWL?

    I feel like the jetpack is the first stunt-for-stunt's-sake in the series. It's cool but doesn't really make a ton of sense. A stunt by definition is something that is done to generate its own publicity.

    The train fight and the Ft. Knox fight both rise organically from their respective stories, IMHO.

    Very much agree. A stunt takes on a life of its own as if another character. No question the train scene in FRWL is spectacular, but it's not a stunt. It's an incredibly well-staged action sequence absolutely necessary to the story. The jet pack seemed silly and unnecessary to me when I first saw TB in the 60s. It wasn't organic. Imagining the fictional conversation about using it, how it got where it was, and how its use anticipated everything Bond would do is quite laughable.


    For example: Later in the series.
    Q-007, you'll need to pack a parachute along with your ski gear. It might be necessary to ski off a mountain.
    Bond-Right. Something colorful, perhaps? Maybe even patriotic?

  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited July 2023 Posts: 3,158
    Agreed - the train fight is an action sequence, the jetpack's a stunt. IMO, obvs.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,926
    Stunt - an exciting and often dangerous act, usually performed for use in a movie by someone specially trained.

  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,999
    by someone specially trained.

    Then that would include the Bond v Grant fight.
  • Posts: 2,027
    by someone specially trained.

    Then that would include the Bond v Grant fight.

    Only insofar as trained stunt doubles did some of the fighting. Not a media event like
    Cruise jumping a motorcycle off a mountain.

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited July 2023 Posts: 16,606
    Bond reaches a wider audience, I don't think that's a secret at this point.

    M:I has raised the bar for action (and I don't mean dumb CGI fests like the last few F&F films) since the Ghost Protocol. This is an area where Bond has been sorely lacking for too long. The last memorable action sequence was the free running from CR.

    I can’t say I found much of RN or FALLOUT all that memorable. RN at least had a better opera sequence than QOS. I don’t remember anything from FALLOUT, except for a questionable choice in taking live footage of Cruise doing a HALO jump and slathering it with CGI, which inadvertently made the real stunt feel like a bluescreen production.

    The only issue I has with that scene, was Walker removing Ethan's air supply before jumping out. Then when they both land on the roof, Ethan doesn't question it. Surely alarm bells must at been going off like an air raid siren in his air. It's not he is Luther or Benji, he was forced onto the IMF team.

    The highlight of Fallout, at least for me, was the Helicopter chase, from Ethan climbing up the rope, through to the mid air collision.

    M:I
    echo wrote: »
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    What was the first Bond stunt?

    Probably the jetpack in TB.

    Is it not the train fight in FRWL?

    I feel like the jetpack is the first stunt-for-stunt's-sake in the series. It's cool but doesn't really make a ton of sense. A stunt by definition is something that is done to generate its own publicity..

    Doesn’t feel like where the Bond series is going next, but yes: I agree- it makes little sense. He could have just used a ladder to do the same thing. If the chateau had had a moat, that would have been cool. I don’t mind a good stunt but the Bond series didn’t kick off with a great one there.
    Hopefully they can think of a killer for the next one. I actually think that unused one of Bond jumping from a plane into a skyscraper-top pool in one of the unused B17 scripts was a great one.
  • George_KaplanGeorge_Kaplan Being chauffeured by Tibbett
    edited July 2023 Posts: 701
    Stunt - an exciting and often dangerous act, usually performed for use in a movie by someone specially trained.
    by someone specially trained.

    Then that would include the Bond v Grant fight.

    It would include every fist fight in the series. So by that measure, Bond's fight with Mr. Jones in DN is the first stunt of the series.
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