Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    Posts: 1,261
    Truthful adaptation would mean the movies should be set in the 1950's? I don't think, I would like it. If so, we only would have 12 movies. And they will never do TSWLM, as Ian Fleming explicitly had it in the contract with Cubby and Harry, that they might use the title, but not use the novel as such (apparently Fleming disliked it). IMO one of the reasons, why we got 24 (25?) movies in 48 years, is, that they always made Bond a character for the present time. And they used material from the novels in the movies. Not the whole story, but elements of it (LTK).
  • Truthful adaptation would mean the movies should be set in the 1950's? I don't think, I would like it. If so, we only would have 12 movies. And they will never do TSWLM, as Ian Fleming explicitly had it in the contract with Cubby and Harry, that they might use the title, but not use the novel as such (apparently Fleming disliked it). IMO one of the reasons, why we got 24 (25?) movies in 48 years, is, that they always made Bond a character for the present time. And they used material from the novels in the movies. Not the whole story, but elements of it (LTK).

    If you look at FYEO, LTK, OP, TLD and CR, all of these adapted Fleming faithfully to modern times (whether its scenes, short story or full novel story), so it can be done.

    As for TSWLM, Fleming has been dead a long time now, and I don't think its beyond the wit of man to start legal proceedings with the Fleming estate to use some of the content from that novel, and I doubt the Fleming estate would pass either, if it kept the memory of Ian alive (and maybe a nice wad of cash too). The only part really worth using is the second half of the book, with Viv Michel holed up in a seedy motel by gangsters, and rescued by Bond - but I think this would work well on screen.

    EON are no strangers to legal wranglings to use Fleming material. They've spent decades doing it, ever since TB.
  • Adaptations in all but title name. Scenes stolen and adapted properly, woven into a new script, 80's Maibaum style. Think FYEO, OP, TLD and LTK where Maibaum did this perfectly.
    That seems to me to be the right way to go. Especially since the feature film format allows to extend concepts initially limited by the concision of a short story, or, in this case, I'm thinking specifically of the opening chapters of TMWTGG, because Fleming did not develop them beyond measure, for lack of interest or time.

    By the way, although I doubt it, I really hope that the PTS of Bond 26 will be an adaptation of those said chapters, seeing Bond return to London after being believed to be dead and his assassination attempt on M. This would be the perfect way to establish a new status quo and introduce a new Bond to the screen.

    I've always said the opening of TMWTGG would make a brilliant PTS, particularly with a new Bond actor.

    Who knows. Maybe NTTD ends with an amnesia ridden Craig escaping Safin's Castle of Death, and disappearing off the radar, which leads nicely into Bond 26, and the PTS of TMWTGG.
  • jamesbond0007jamesbond0007 mississippi
    Posts: 32
    Bond 25 is probably it and they are done . Wilson is too old and Barbara wants to pursue other projects.....I think we have seen the end of 007 for a long time.
  • jamesbond0007jamesbond0007 mississippi
    Posts: 32
    Adaptations in all but title name. Scenes stolen and adapted properly, woven into a new script, 80's Maibaum style. Think FYEO, OP, TLD and LTK where Maibaum did this perfectly.
    That seems to me to be the right way to go. Especially since the feature film format allows to extend concepts initially limited by the concision of a short story, or, in this case, I'm thinking specifically of the opening chapters of TMWTGG, because Fleming did not develop them beyond measure, for lack of interest or time.

    By the way, although I doubt it, I really hope that the PTS of Bond 26 will be an adaptation of those said chapters, seeing Bond return to London after being believed to be dead and his assassination attempt on M. This would be the perfect way to establish a new status quo and introduce a new Bond to the screen.

    I've always said the opening of TMWTGG would make a brilliant PTS, particularly with a new Bond actor.

    Who knows. Maybe NTTD ends with an amnesia ridden Craig escaping Safin's Castle of Death, and disappearing off the radar, which leads nicely into Bond 26, and the PTS of TMWTGG.

    Yeah more warmed over crap. That's what is wrong these days .
  • Adaptations in all but title name. Scenes stolen and adapted properly, woven into a new script, 80's Maibaum style. Think FYEO, OP, TLD and LTK where Maibaum did this perfectly.
    That seems to me to be the right way to go. Especially since the feature film format allows to extend concepts initially limited by the concision of a short story, or, in this case, I'm thinking specifically of the opening chapters of TMWTGG, because Fleming did not develop them beyond measure, for lack of interest or time.

    By the way, although I doubt it, I really hope that the PTS of Bond 26 will be an adaptation of those said chapters, seeing Bond return to London after being believed to be dead and his assassination attempt on M. This would be the perfect way to establish a new status quo and introduce a new Bond to the screen.

    I've always said the opening of TMWTGG would make a brilliant PTS, particularly with a new Bond actor.

    Who knows. Maybe NTTD ends with an amnesia ridden Craig escaping Safin's Castle of Death, and disappearing off the radar, which leads nicely into Bond 26, and the PTS of TMWTGG.

    Yeah more warmed over crap. That's what is wrong these days .

    Warmed over crap? Fleming?

    Warmed over crap is right when you talk about what has been wrong with Bond for a while now. But the opening scene from TMWTGG is definitely not `warmed over crap.'
  • Bond 25 is probably it and they are done . Wilson is too old and Barbara wants to pursue other projects.....I think we have seen the end of 007 for a long time.

    Hopefully we've seen the end of you too on this forum.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    edited September 2020 Posts: 9,509
    Bond 25 is probably it and they are done . Wilson is too old and Barbara wants to pursue other projects.....I think we have seen the end of 007 for a long time.

    @jamesbond0007 -- do you know the history of this family?

    Do you know that Gregg Wilson has been brought into this "family business" in a similar fashion to his (step) aunt Barbara?

    Have you been aware with each passing film/project, Gregg's taken on more responsibility?

    Did you know that he was a head producer on TRS (whether you like the film or not, this was his project)?

    He was head of locations for NTTD.

    Broccoli and Wilson Sr aren't handing this family business over to anyone any time soon, and have in fact been grooming Gregg to replace his father to be co-producer with his aunt.

    If things change, things change, but to date, the Broccoli/Wilson family are in control of their legacy and have made plans for the future.

    I agree on one thing: (unlike the above which is based on ppl I actually know, the following is an assumption): it may take awhile for EoN to choose the next 007. Perhaps the pressures of a distributor will make this next choice faster, but if EoN has their way, they would love to let the dust settle on the popular Craig era before ramming a new double-0-7 down the throats.

    It makes sense: Craig and his films are unmatched (most popular since the original golden era of Connery's films).

    So, they're in no rush.

    However, if a new distribution company pressures them to get the next film going, we will see a quick turn around.

    If not (because Bond will always be bank a year from now and 10years from now), expect a three to five year gap.

    P.S. EDIT-- for anyone thinking EoN has someone in mind to play Bond? I bet the house against that assumption. It will come. But not immediately.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,970
    Preach @peter haha :)
  • peterpeter Toronto
    edited September 2020 Posts: 9,509
    @Denbigh ... sigh, (lol!!)

    EDIT: anything can change in this Covid-world, of course... But as far as I know, this is still a family biz; Gregg is heir to his father; history shows that Gregg has been educated via the EoN school of Bond filmmaking. I have not received any news even close to suggesting "time's up" and EoN is up for sale.

    So I stick by my word.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited September 2020 Posts: 5,970
    peter wrote: »
    ...anything can change in this Covid-world, of course... But as far as I know, this is still a family biz; Gregg is heir to his father; history shows that Gregg has been educated via the EoN school of Bond filmmaking..
    Haha yeah take a breather haha :D
    I for one cannot wait to see what Gregg brings to the franchise going forward. The franchise should remain a family business (and it certainly seems to be doing so as you say), and I don't think any other studio would treat it with the same amount of love and care, even if people don't like everything they've put out :)
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Denbigh wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    ...anything can change in this Covid-world, of course... But as far as I know, this is still a family biz; Gregg is heir to his father; history shows that Gregg has been educated via the EoN school of Bond filmmaking..
    Haha yeah take a breather haha :D
    I for one cannot wait to see what Gregg brings to the franchise going forward. The franchise should remain a family business (and it certainly seems to be doing so as you say), and I don't think any other studio would treat it with the same amount of love and care, even if people don't like everything they've put out :)

    Nailed it: it's a family business. Until that's not viable, then EoN will likely look to pivot.
  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    Posts: 2,541
    peter wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    ...anything can change in this Covid-world, of course... But as far as I know, this is still a family biz; Gregg is heir to his father; history shows that Gregg has been educated via the EoN school of Bond filmmaking..
    Haha yeah take a breather haha :D
    I for one cannot wait to see what Gregg brings to the franchise going forward. The franchise should remain a family business (and it certainly seems to be doing so as you say), and I don't think any other studio would treat it with the same amount of love and care, even if people don't like everything they've put out :)

    Nailed it: it's a family business. Until that's not viable, then EoN will likely look to pivot.

    Well said @peter . I really hope it remain family buisness forever, although i don't know much about Gregg, hope he is as good as his aunt and value this legacy :)
  • 007InAction007InAction Australia
    Posts: 2,516
    peter wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    ...anything can change in this Covid-world, of course... But as far as I know, this is still a family biz; Gregg is heir to his father; history shows that Gregg has been educated via the EoN school of Bond filmmaking..
    Haha yeah take a breather haha :D
    I for one cannot wait to see what Gregg brings to the franchise going forward. The franchise should remain a family business (and it certainly seems to be doing so as you say), and I don't think any other studio would treat it with the same amount of love and care, even if people don't like everything they've put out :)

    Nailed it: it's a family business. Until that's not viable, then EoN will likely look to pivot.

    It's a family business alright.
    Like this guys familia businessa.......... :)>-
    1*deOcH6lCTN3KSXZOFcEITw.jpeg
  • Posts: 9,843
    Truthful adaptation would mean the movies should be set in the 1950's? I don't think, I would like it. If so, we only would have 12 movies. And they will never do TSWLM, as Ian Fleming explicitly had it in the contract with Cubby and Harry, that they might use the title, but not use the novel as such (apparently Fleming disliked it). IMO one of the reasons, why we got 24 (25?) movies in 48 years, is, that they always made Bond a character for the present time. And they used material from the novels in the movies. Not the whole story, but elements of it (LTK).

    If you look at FYEO, LTK, OP, TLD and CR, all of these adapted Fleming faithfully to modern times (whether its scenes, short story or full novel story), so it can be done.

    As for TSWLM, Fleming has been dead a long time now, and I don't think its beyond the wit of man to start legal proceedings with the Fleming estate to use some of the content from that novel, and I doubt the Fleming estate would pass either, if it kept the memory of Ian alive (and maybe a nice wad of cash too). The only part really worth using is the second half of the book, with Viv Michel holed up in a seedy motel by gangsters, and rescued by Bond - but I think this would work well on screen.

    EON are no strangers to legal wranglings to use Fleming material. They've spent decades doing it, ever since TB.

    The issue here is The spy who loved me has already been adapted 3 times

    The title and the character of horror were done in 77
    The main action sequence from the novel was done note for note in for your eyes only
    And Paris always felt like a Vivine substitute (there are two subtle nods to the character the first being the gun under the pillow line the second being the whole Newspaper boy he told me he loved me thing)

    I would far prefer them tackle a novel that hasn’t been cut up and done three different times like Diamonds are forever or the short stories from a view to a Kill and the hildebrand rarity hell even octopussy could be updated and utilized for an interesting plot
  • edited September 2020 Posts: 3,327
    Risico007 wrote: »
    Truthful adaptation would mean the movies should be set in the 1950's? I don't think, I would like it. If so, we only would have 12 movies. And they will never do TSWLM, as Ian Fleming explicitly had it in the contract with Cubby and Harry, that they might use the title, but not use the novel as such (apparently Fleming disliked it). IMO one of the reasons, why we got 24 (25?) movies in 48 years, is, that they always made Bond a character for the present time. And they used material from the novels in the movies. Not the whole story, but elements of it (LTK).

    If you look at FYEO, LTK, OP, TLD and CR, all of these adapted Fleming faithfully to modern times (whether its scenes, short story or full novel story), so it can be done.

    As for TSWLM, Fleming has been dead a long time now, and I don't think its beyond the wit of man to start legal proceedings with the Fleming estate to use some of the content from that novel, and I doubt the Fleming estate would pass either, if it kept the memory of Ian alive (and maybe a nice wad of cash too). The only part really worth using is the second half of the book, with Viv Michel holed up in a seedy motel by gangsters, and rescued by Bond - but I think this would work well on screen.

    EON are no strangers to legal wranglings to use Fleming material. They've spent decades doing it, ever since TB.

    The issue here is The spy who loved me has already been adapted 3 times

    The title and the character of horror were done in 77
    The main action sequence from the novel was done note for note in for your eyes only
    And Paris always felt like a Vivine substitute (there are two subtle nods to the character the first being the gun under the pillow line the second being the whole Newspaper boy he told me he loved me thing)

    I would far prefer them tackle a novel that hasn’t been cut up and done three different times like Diamonds are forever or the short stories from a view to a Kill and the hildebrand rarity hell even octopussy could be updated and utilized for an interesting plot

    Where was the TSWLM action scene in FYEO? I don't recall gangsters in a remote motel roughing up a broad, and then Bond rescuing her in a shootout. I must have missed that?

    Agreed, DAF hasn't been properly done, nor AVTAK or OP.

    However Hildebrand has been done in LTK, split over 2 characters - Sanchez is that character, whip an' all, and then Milton Krest is name checked as another character (who also owns a boat).

  • Risico007 wrote: »
    I would far prefer them tackle a novel that hasn’t been cut up and done three different times like Diamonds are forever or the short stories from a view to a Kill and the hildebrand rarity hell even octopussy could be updated and utilized for an interesting plot
    Regarding "The Hildebrand Rarity", the early drafts of LTK seemed to offer an interesting adaptation of this tale with Bond accompanying Milton Krest on his quest to find the fish, suspecting him of being linked to a Chinese antiques traffic involving a Golden Triangle Warlord. Even if it is not necessarily my dream story for Bond 26, it remains a narrative perspective which could serve as a basis for the script, while using some Fleming's elements.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited September 2020 Posts: 6,277
    "Where does Bond go after Craig?"

    Back to 2006 basics, with a faithful adaptation of MR. Not sure bridge will work onscreen, though. Maybe back to gin rummy a la GF.

    I don't recall FAVTAK having much story, or DAF for that matter. YOLT or TMWTGG, sure.

    The arc of THR hasn't been done--Liz Krest (another married woman!), Fidele Barbey, the ambiguous death scene, etc. Bond on holiday is an interesting idea. There is room for adaptation there: maybe it could be the springboard to the film proper, a la TLD 's title story, or the climax. It would be interesting/kind of edgy for Eon to see Bond with a married woman for the entire film (and true to Fleming the man, right?)
  • Posts: 16,149
    I actually love the idea of adapting TSWLM nove for the screen. Or it could be used as a starting point for a new film a'la TLD. Perhaps the PTS could be Bond rescuing Vivienne at the inn, then springboard a new plot from there?
    Either way I'd love to see some unused Fleming material turn up in future films.
  • Posts: 6,709
    Many brilliant ideias in this thread.
  • edited September 2020 Posts: 12,837
    A story that uses the MR novel as a blueprint would be really cool. So much of that is untapped, and using a bit of Fleming would be a great way to give it a sense of legitimacy, in the same way going back to CR did.

    Personally though I’m not too bothered about where we go story wise, at least not specifically anyway. All I want is them to keep the fleshed out, real feeling Bond of the Craig films, but for them to ditch the personal missions. You can do interesting stuff with Bond as a character without tying his whole world to him and his childhood.

    I think deconstructing the character from a different angle would be cool too. Because on the one hand, he’s a dinasour. Drawing attention to that is the only way he works in the modern world. But on the other hand, we get it, he’s a sexist assassin. Those points have kind of been explored to death over the last twenty odd years imo. Something they’ve never touched on though is the snobbery. That could be fun to explore. Maybe do it like GE, with a new M who doesn’t approve of Bond straight away, but this time from the angle of the saville row suits and Aston Martins, rather than his sexism. An M from a working class background maybe, who’s got no time for Bond’s old boys club attitude, while Bond sees him as a boring pearl clutching lefty. But as with GE, you could build up a mutual respect there by the end. And then if you wanted to make that a theme that runs through the film, you could have a villain cut from the same old Etonian cloth as Bond, but highlight the difference between them through some sort of evil elitist plan that Bond has to stop.

    Something else I hope we’ll see the back of for a while is the burnt out, TLD esque Bond. Since the next actor will be younger than Craig has been for the last few films, lets have him in his prime. Show the side of him that loves his tough, exciting job, the man who gets off on the danger. Going in depth with that would be a cool way of setting the next actor apart. Maybe have a scene of him doing paperwork but he’s bored stiff, itching to get back out there. In the London scenes he could be twitchy and restless, then in the field he’s in his element. Highlight Bond the addict. That could be a fairly novel take. In keeping with that, it’d be nice if he could start smoking again, but obviously that’s unlikely with them being family films.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    A story that uses the MR novel as a blueprint would be really cool. So much of that is untapped, and using a bit of Fleming would be a great way to give it a sense of legitimacy, in the same way going back to CR did.

    Personally though I’m not too bothered about where we go story wise, at least not specifically anyway. All I want is them to keep the fleshed out, real feeling Bond of the Craig films, but for them to ditch the personal missions. You can do interesting stuff with Bond as a character without tying his whole world to him and his childhood.

    I think deconstructing the character from a different angle would be cool too. Because on the one hand, he’s a dinasour. Drawing attention to that is the only way he works in the modern world. But on the other hand, we get it, he’s a sexist assassin. Those points have kind of been explored to death over the last twenty odd years imo. Something they’ve never touched on though is the snobbery. That could be fun to explore. Maybe do it like GE, with a new M who doesn’t approve of Bond straight away, but this time from the angle of the saville row suits and Aston Martins, rather than his sexism. An M from a working class background maybe, who’s got no time for Bond’s old boys club attitude, while Bond sees him as a boring pearl clutching lefty. But as with GE, you could build up a mutual respect there by the end. And then if you wanted to make that a theme that runs through the film, you could have a villain cut from the same old Etonian cloth as Bond, but highlight the difference between them through some sort of evil elitist plan that Bond has to stop.

    Something else I hope we’ll see the back of for a while is the burnt out, TLD esque Bond. Since the next actor will be younger than Craig has been for the last few films, lets have him in his prime. Show the side of him that loves his tough, exciting job, the man who gets off on the danger. Going in depth with that would be a cool way of setting the next actor apart. Maybe have a scene of him doing paperwork but he’s bored stiff, itching to get back out there. In the London scenes he could be twitchy and restless, then in the field he’s in his element. Highlight Bond the addict. That could be a fairly novel take. In keeping with that, it’d be nice if he could start smoking again, but obviously that’s unlikely with them being family films.

    Yes, to all of this.
  • edited September 2020 Posts: 6,709
    A story that uses the MR novel as a blueprint would be really cool. So much of that is untapped, and using a bit of Fleming would be a great way to give it a sense of legitimacy, in the same way going back to CR did.

    Personally though I’m not too bothered about where we go story wise, at least not specifically anyway. All I want is them to keep the fleshed out, real feeling Bond of the Craig films, but for them to ditch the personal missions. You can do interesting stuff with Bond as a character without tying his whole world to him and his childhood.

    I think deconstructing the character from a different angle would be cool too. Because on the one hand, he’s a dinasour. Drawing attention to that is the only way he works in the modern world. But on the other hand, we get it, he’s a sexist assassin. Those points have kind of been explored to death over the last twenty odd years imo. Something they’ve never touched on though is the snobbery. That could be fun to explore. Maybe do it like GE, with a new M who doesn’t approve of Bond straight away, but this time from the angle of the saville row suits and Aston Martins, rather than his sexism. An M from a working class background maybe, who’s got no time for Bond’s old boys club attitude, while Bond sees him as a boring pearl clutching lefty. But as with GE, you could build up a mutual respect there by the end. And then if you wanted to make that a theme that runs through the film, you could have a villain cut from the same old Etonian cloth as Bond, but highlight the difference between them through some sort of evil elitist plan that Bond has to stop.

    Something else I hope we’ll see the back of for a while is the burnt out, TLD esque Bond. Since the next actor will be younger than Craig has been for the last few films, lets have him in his prime. Show the side of him that loves his tough, exciting job, the man who gets off on the danger. Going in depth with that would be a cool way of setting the next actor apart. Maybe have a scene of him doing paperwork but he’s bored stiff, itching to get back out there. In the London scenes he could be twitchy and restless, then in the field he’s in his element. Highlight Bond the addict. That could be a fairly novel take. In keeping with that, it’d be nice if he could start smoking again, but obviously that’s unlikely with them being family films.

    Yes, to all of this.

    Yes. Definitely!
  • Univex wrote: »
    A story that uses the MR novel as a blueprint would be really cool. So much of that is untapped, and using a bit of Fleming would be a great way to give it a sense of legitimacy, in the same way going back to CR did.

    Personally though I’m not too bothered about where we go story wise, at least not specifically anyway. All I want is them to keep the fleshed out, real feeling Bond of the Craig films, but for them to ditch the personal missions. You can do interesting stuff with Bond as a character without tying his whole world to him and his childhood.

    I think deconstructing the character from a different angle would be cool too. Because on the one hand, he’s a dinasour. Drawing attention to that is the only way he works in the modern world. But on the other hand, we get it, he’s a sexist assassin. Those points have kind of been explored to death over the last twenty odd years imo. Something they’ve never touched on though is the snobbery. That could be fun to explore. Maybe do it like GE, with a new M who doesn’t approve of Bond straight away, but this time from the angle of the saville row suits and Aston Martins, rather than his sexism. An M from a working class background maybe, who’s got no time for Bond’s old boys club attitude, while Bond sees him as a boring pearl clutching lefty. But as with GE, you could build up a mutual respect there by the end. And then if you wanted to make that a theme that runs through the film, you could have a villain cut from the same old Etonian cloth as Bond, but highlight the difference between them through some sort of evil elitist plan that Bond has to stop.

    Something else I hope we’ll see the back of for a while is the burnt out, TLD esque Bond. Since the next actor will be younger than Craig has been for the last few films, lets have him in his prime. Show the side of him that loves his tough, exciting job, the man who gets off on the danger. Going in depth with that would be a cool way of setting the next actor apart. Maybe have a scene of him doing paperwork but he’s bored stiff, itching to get back out there. In the London scenes he could be twitchy and restless, then in the field he’s in his element. Highlight Bond the addict. That could be a fairly novel take. In keeping with that, it’d be nice if he could start smoking again, but obviously that’s unlikely with them being family films.

    Yes, to all of this.

    Yes. Definitely!

    Me too.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,277
    I never quite understood what Bond's class *is*. Certainly Fleming was a snob and the literary character is as well. Bond onscreen is more an every man. But Vesper's comments on the train in CR, as well SkyFall, completely confuse me as he seems to be an heir of a large estate.
  • echo wrote: »
    I never quite understood what Bond's class *is*. Certainly Fleming was a snob and the literary character is as well. Bond onscreen is more an every man. But Vesper's comments on the train in CR, as well SkyFall, completely confuse me as he seems to be an heir of a large estate.

    I think it's because they still try to keep the essence, the roots of the character intact, from what Fleming originally wrote, even though the screen version has tended to drift and stray from its literary roots from time to time.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    echo wrote: »
    I never quite understood what Bond's class *is*. Certainly Fleming was a snob and the literary character is as well. Bond onscreen is more an every man. But Vesper's comments on the train in CR, as well SkyFall, completely confuse me as he seems to be an heir of a large estate.

    Class structures have massively changed in the last 60 years.
    I am no expert on this, but Fleming's Bond is upper-class like the author himself and pretty much everyone in the higher circles of MI6 at the time. Ben McIntyre's very good book on Kim Philby, "A Spy among Friends" (in which Fleming appears once on the margins) explains it as MI6 during and right after the war being almost like a club. That is why Philby got away with his double life. He was from the right circles and once he was inside, he was protected fiercly by his colleagues, because he was one of theirs. This is in opposition to MI5 which was more middle class - policemen and enlisted rather than college grads and officers.
    Bond's upringing in public schools, international and Oxbridge universities and so on, also mark him as upper class. I think he mentions in Moonraker that he has seperate income to that goven to him by MI6, which would mean a substantial inheritence/trust.
    But due to his early orphanhood, he seems to be atypical. He is at home in these circles and knows how to.move in them, but as he reflects about Blades in Moonraker, he is an outsider.

    As for the movie version and CR/SF in particular. I would say the producers have always picked and discarded what they wanted from the character quite liberally. My theory is that the thought while CR was being written was that he indeed didn't come from money but that was retconned in SF so that we now would have to say Vesper was wrong and Bond actually was independetly wealthy all along. Bond never answers to her observation.
    The other option is that Andrew and Monique had money but that basically went away with their death and there were problems by the time James got to University where his school friends never let him forget about his finacial situation, as Vesper put it.


    Final note: Neither Fleming nor Bond are "snobs". Fleming actually considered snobbery to be a deadly sin.
    https://literary007.com/2019/08/17/ian-flemings-seven-deadlier-sins-snobbery/
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,767
    Regarding Vesper's comments I took it as best guesses, most of which hit home. For example she mentions SAS-types, Bond was SBS. Close enough. And being orphaned he was in the situation where other than his immediate family provided for him, estate non-withstanding.

    He is at home in these circles and knows how to.move in them, but as he reflects about Blades in Moonraker, he is an outsider.

    I was going to make this exact point quoting Moonraker, @ImpertinentGoon --Bond is comfortable in expensive settings and enjoys fine living. But he's no playboy or member of high society. He's also not the ultimate Brit, even there Fleming describes him as an outsider. An important part of the character and in line with the dirty profession he's in.

    Moonraker, Ian Fleming, 1955.
    Chapter Chapter 4 - The Shiner
    Bond knew that there was something alien and un-English about himself. He knew that he was a difficult man to cover up. Particularly in England. He shrugged his shoulders. Abroad was what mattered. He would never have a job to do in England. Outside the jurisdiction of the Service. Anyway, he didn't need a cover this evening. This was recreation.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    Regarding Vesper's comments I took it as best guesses, most of which hit home. For example she mentions SAS-types, Bond was SBS. Close enough. And being orphaned he was in the situation where other than his immediate family provided for him, estate non-withstanding.

    He is at home in these circles and knows how to.move in them, but as he reflects about Blades in Moonraker, he is an outsider.

    I was going to make this exact point quoting Moonraker, @ImpertinentGoon --Bond is comfortable in expensive settings and enjoys fine living. But he's no playboy or member of high society. He's also not the ultimate Brit, even there Fleming describes him as an outsider. An important part of the character and in line with the dirty profession he's in.

    Moonraker, Ian Fleming, 1955.
    Chapter Chapter 4 - The Shiner
    Bond knew that there was something alien and un-English about himself. He knew that he was a difficult man to cover up. Particularly in England. He shrugged his shoulders. Abroad was what mattered. He would never have a job to do in England. Outside the jurisdiction of the Service. Anyway, he didn't need a cover this evening. This was recreation.

    I never really understood that part. I don't think Fleming really makes clear, what exactly makes Bond "un-English" and I don't really get it in concert with the rest of the characterisation. Maybe it was something Fleming felt about himself. Maybe the point is to set up the fact that he will get an assignment in England just the next morning (where then his un-Englishness weirdly doesn't matter at all, because he is surrounded by Germans) or in comparison to the fake-English Drax. Maybe Fleming wanted to pre-empt Bond being held up as this ultimate totem of Englishness - which then happened anyway. Most likely he wanted to underline how this guy is a wolf in sheep's clothing, only that all the other sheep are very aware of his teeth.
  • 007InAction007InAction Australia
    edited September 2020 Posts: 2,516
    EV in future bond films with new weapons instead of boring machine guns.
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