Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,789
    I think that the next Bond should balance the tone between the lighter superspy adventures and the grounded gritty thrilllers, kind of what TWINE and SP tried to do but failed.
    Also, don't have the franchise taking inspiration from other movies, Bond should be the TRENDSETTER, not the trend follower.

    I agree with you regarding SP (a film for me that had a lot of potential, really), but I'm not sure about TWINE (it's a film that's heavily convoluted, it's a film that wanted to be GF, but also wanted to be OHMSS, it felt like a film full of patchy ideas that didn't came off together).

    When it comes to Bond being a trendsetter, as much as I liked it too, but the last Craig Films showed and proved that it wouldn't likely to happen, let's admit it, the writers are clearly running out of ideas, with the Producers being uncertain about which direction Bond should go, then becoming a trendsetter feels a bit too far and impossible to happen, especially that there almost no Fleming books left to adapt, back then, it's possible, because the ideas were purely original from Fleming Books (think of the 60's Bond films), but now, I don't know.

    Having the Bond filmmakers be creative is a wish needs to be taken to a genie, in order to put Bond in the top and be a trendsetter again.
  • TheSkyfallen06TheSkyfallen06 Buenos Aires, Argentina.
    Posts: 1,101
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    I think that the next Bond should balance the tone between the lighter superspy adventures and the grounded gritty thrilllers, kind of what TWINE and SP tried to do but failed.
    Also, don't have the franchise taking inspiration from other movies, Bond should be the TRENDSETTER, not the trend follower.

    I agree with you regarding SP (a film for me that had a lot of potential, really), but I'm not sure about TWINE (it's a film that's heavily convoluted, it's a film that wanted to be GF, but also wanted to be OHMSS, it felt like a film full of patchy ideas that didn't came off together).

    When it comes to Bond being a trendsetter, as much as I liked it too, but the last Craig Films showed and proved that it wouldn't likely to happen, let's admit it, the writers are clearly running out of ideas, with the Producers being uncertain about which direction Bond should go, then becoming a trendsetter feels a bit too far and impossible to happen, especially that there almost no Fleming books left to adapt, back then, it's possible, because the ideas were purely original from Fleming Books (think of the 60's Bond films), but now, I don't know.

    Having the Bond filmmakers be creative is a wish needs to be taken to a genie, in order to put Bond in the top and be a trendsetter again.

    Right, so don't make Bond a trendsetter, but also don't take inspiration from the trending movies of the time, and if they're going to do so, do it with The Batman and the Amazon Prime Jack Ryan series*.
    *imo
  • Posts: 1,859
    I think the real question is, where does Bond go after Eon. That day will come.
  • TheSkyfallen06TheSkyfallen06 Buenos Aires, Argentina.
    edited September 2023 Posts: 1,101
    delfloria wrote: »
    I think the real question is, where does Bond go after Eon. That day will come.

    I think i'ts pretty safe to say EON will mantain the rights to cinematic Bond for a very long time until that day happens, and when it does, i hope they wisely choose their succesor.
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    Posts: 693
    The Bond movies can't be trendsetters at this point because the original movies established nearly all the tropes we see in the spy/assassin/action genre to begin with. Without Bond there's no Bourne, Hunt, Bauer, Wick, etc. Bond movies don't need to set trends, they just need to be themselves without imitating other franchises.
  • edited September 2023 Posts: 2,165
    delfloria wrote: »
    I think the real question is, where does Bond go after Eon. That day will come.

    I think i'ts pretty safe to say EON will mantain the rights to cinematic Bond for a very long time until that day happens, and when it does, i hope they wisely choose their succesor.

    That may be, but who will be running EoN?

    MGW is in his early 80s. Will he be continuing?
    Presumably BB is going to continue.
    Will Gregg Wilson be taking over from his dad?

    What will EoN do when the Bond novels become public domain in 10 years time, when anyone could make a James Bond film?
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,179
    Mallory wrote: »
    delfloria wrote: »
    I think the real question is, where does Bond go after Eon. That day will come.

    I think i'ts pretty safe to say EON will mantain the rights to cinematic Bond for a very long time until that day happens, and when it does, i hope they wisely choose their succesor.

    That may be, but who will be running EoN?

    MGW is in his early 80s. Will he be continuing?
    Presumably BB is going to continue.
    Will Gregg Wilson be taking over from his dad?

    What will EoN do when the Bond novels become public domain in 10 years time, when anyone could make a James Bond film?

    Is that true, though? Does the novels becoming public domain automatically mean that anyone can produce the films? I'm only asking because I honestly don't know how that works.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Mallory wrote: »
    delfloria wrote: »
    I think the real question is, where does Bond go after Eon. That day will come.

    I think i'ts pretty safe to say EON will mantain the rights to cinematic Bond for a very long time until that day happens, and when it does, i hope they wisely choose their succesor.

    That may be, but who will be running EoN?

    MGW is in his early 80s. Will he be continuing?
    Presumably BB is going to continue.
    Will Gregg Wilson be taking over from his dad?

    What will EoN do when the Bond novels become public domain in 10 years time, when anyone could make a James Bond film?

    Is that true, though? Does the novels becoming public domain automatically mean that anyone can produce the films? I'm only asking because I honestly don't know how that works.

    I have almost zero understanding of it but I was under the assumption that anyone can tackle the world of the novels how they see fit once they enter the public domain.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 2023 Posts: 16,383
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Mallory wrote: »
    delfloria wrote: »
    I think the real question is, where does Bond go after Eon. That day will come.

    I think i'ts pretty safe to say EON will mantain the rights to cinematic Bond for a very long time until that day happens, and when it does, i hope they wisely choose their succesor.

    That may be, but who will be running EoN?

    MGW is in his early 80s. Will he be continuing?
    Presumably BB is going to continue.
    Will Gregg Wilson be taking over from his dad?

    What will EoN do when the Bond novels become public domain in 10 years time, when anyone could make a James Bond film?

    Is that true, though? Does the novels becoming public domain automatically mean that anyone can produce the films? I'm only asking because I honestly don't know how that works.

    I don't know for sure either as it's all very confusing, but I'm always very dubious. 'James Bond 007' is a trademark (not copyright) which is held by Danjaq and MGM in multiple territories and will remain theirs for as long as they go on renewing it, much like the Coca Cola Company own 'Coca Cola'- trademarks are forever, unlike copyright. So I don't see how anyone could make a Bond film with James Bond in it apart from Danjaq/MGM.
  • TheSkyfallen06TheSkyfallen06 Buenos Aires, Argentina.
    Posts: 1,101
    Mallory wrote: »
    delfloria wrote: »
    I think the real question is, where does Bond go after Eon. That day will come.

    I think i'ts pretty safe to say EON will mantain the rights to cinematic Bond for a very long time until that day happens, and when it does, i hope they wisely choose their succesor.

    That may be, but who will be running EoN?

    MGW is in his early 80s. Will he be continuing?
    Presumably BB is going to continue.
    Will Gregg Wilson be taking over from his dad?

    What will EoN do when the Bond novels become public domain in 10 years time, when anyone could make a James Bond film?

    That's a pretty interesting question, will we have another Kevin Mcclory? Will there be another Never Say Never Again?
    I can imagine an independent studio doing a more faithful adaptation of Moonraker.

    Tom Brittney is Ian Fleming's James Bond 007 in...
    MONDAYS ARE HELL
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,179
    mtm wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Mallory wrote: »
    delfloria wrote: »
    I think the real question is, where does Bond go after Eon. That day will come.

    I think i'ts pretty safe to say EON will mantain the rights to cinematic Bond for a very long time until that day happens, and when it does, i hope they wisely choose their succesor.

    That may be, but who will be running EoN?

    MGW is in his early 80s. Will he be continuing?
    Presumably BB is going to continue.
    Will Gregg Wilson be taking over from his dad?

    What will EoN do when the Bond novels become public domain in 10 years time, when anyone could make a James Bond film?

    Is that true, though? Does the novels becoming public domain automatically mean that anyone can produce the films? I'm only asking because I honestly don't know how that works.

    I don't know for sure either as it's all very confusing, but I'm always very dubious. 'James Bond 007' is a trademark (not copyright) which is held by Danjaq and MGM in multiple territories and will remain theirs for as long as they go on renewing it, much like the Coca Cola Company own 'Coca Cola'- trademarks are forever, unlike copyright. So I don't see how anyone could make a Bond film with James Bond in it apart from Danjaq/MGM.

    Indeed. And I take it that important if not essential elements such as the James Bond Theme, the gun barrel opener and perhaps some characters such as "Q" are entirely owned by Danjac/MGM, no?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    mtm wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Mallory wrote: »
    delfloria wrote: »
    I think the real question is, where does Bond go after Eon. That day will come.

    I think i'ts pretty safe to say EON will mantain the rights to cinematic Bond for a very long time until that day happens, and when it does, i hope they wisely choose their succesor.

    That may be, but who will be running EoN?

    MGW is in his early 80s. Will he be continuing?
    Presumably BB is going to continue.
    Will Gregg Wilson be taking over from his dad?

    What will EoN do when the Bond novels become public domain in 10 years time, when anyone could make a James Bond film?

    Is that true, though? Does the novels becoming public domain automatically mean that anyone can produce the films? I'm only asking because I honestly don't know how that works.

    I don't know for sure either as it's all very confusing, but I'm always very dubious. 'James Bond 007' is a trademark (not copyright) which is held by Danjaq and MGM in multiple territories and will remain theirs for as long as they go on renewing it, much like the Coca Cola Company own 'Coca Cola'- trademarks are forever, unlike copyright. So I don't see how anyone could make a Bond film with James Bond in it apart from Danjaq/MGM.

    That whole trademark issue is what I thought would be a sticking point and be the difference maker in a situation like that.
  • edited September 2023 Posts: 2,266
    mtm wrote: »

    Sorry, I posted before I saw your most recent reply.
    Do you think that Fleming's Octopussy short story that the Spectre story is based on was poorly written because it added a new childhood backstory to Bond?
    I don't really buy that retroactively adding a past life detail to a character is always a bad thing. Would seeing Blofeld kill Oberhauser in the same way we see Bond kill Anya's boyfriend have altered it for you? Like how the GoldenEye PTS adds on a new situation in Bond's past which hadn't existed before the movie but pre-dates everything else in it.
    When you say it's not remotely similar in the slightest: they're not really all that massively different.

    Admittedly my knowledge on Fleming’s Bond doesn’t extend to the short stories as I haven’t read those yet. But I know well enough that Fleming didn’t retroactively add Oberhauser into previous stories to make him a constant presence in Bond’s life, and interfering with the missions Bond’s assigned from afar. My problem isn’t adding details of a past life to a character so much as retroactively altering the plots of previously established films in order to give an illusion of continuity, like having Blofeld be responsible for Le Chiffe, Greene, and Silva up until that point, and to go even further, making Bond and Blofeld step-brothers. So they are entirely different from the likes of Bond/Anya’s relationship, as well as Bond/Trevelyn’s.

    mtm wrote: »
    I think you probably do need some emotional crisis point for situations of dramatic tension.

    Not necessarily. Going back to my example of FRWL, there’s a huge amount of dramatic tension in the scene between Bond and Grant in the train cabin, and that’s all from the suspense being built by the filmmakers in having Grant constantly shadow Bond throughout the film. Now Bond does have an emotional connection to the circumstances; his friend was recently murdered aboard, and he’s unsure in how he feels about Tatiana. But his emotions aren’t what’s driving that scene, it’s the suspense that’s slowly building and building until the big fight begins.

    mtm wrote: »
    This seemed to be a point in your last post: that Skyfall was a moment of the series questioning itself after Quantum of Solace wasn't a mega hit? I think that's based on a bit of a false assumption: I don't think it's as meta in that way as you're saying it is. You have a point that SF does seek to ask the question as to whether Bond the blunt instrument is still as vital and useful as he was, but I'd say that's probably more down to the series' 50th anniversary at that point than any perceived failure of a previous film. It's a celebratory thing, and even my example of Top Gun Maverick does a similar thing. SF is certainly more successful on this note than GoldenEye was for my money, which again just played quite an interesting concept lip service and effectively ditched it after one scene.

    Perhaps so, and I’m welcome to entertaining that idea a bit more. But I find it very odd that in the years after Die Another Day as well as the introduction of the Bourne Series, that there was this period of time from 2002 to roughly Skyfall’s release where certain critics and voices were coming out accusing Bond of being outdated for modern times, and some even going to far as to negatively compare both Bond and Jason Bourne as characters. Even Matt Damon and Paul Greengrass were publicly trashing the character of Bond around this point. Despite both Casino Royale, and to a lesser extent Quantum of Solace being both massive hits financially speaking, some people were still slagging off Bond as “copying” Bourne; a criticism which may hold some merit with regards to QOS, but absolutely zero with Casino Royale. Of course people have always said similar things about Bond ever since Connery left, but I find it a bit coincidental that they chose to include such a subtext that time around.

    Plus I don’t think Goldeneye was meant to act as a celebration of the series/character. It was more meant to re-establish the franchise for a new era, and on that basis it absolutely succeeded. Now Die Another Day on the other hand tried to be a celebration of the series/character, but failed in its execution. That I’ll say Skyfall definitely improved upon.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,383
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Mallory wrote: »
    delfloria wrote: »
    I think the real question is, where does Bond go after Eon. That day will come.

    I think i'ts pretty safe to say EON will mantain the rights to cinematic Bond for a very long time until that day happens, and when it does, i hope they wisely choose their succesor.

    That may be, but who will be running EoN?

    MGW is in his early 80s. Will he be continuing?
    Presumably BB is going to continue.
    Will Gregg Wilson be taking over from his dad?

    What will EoN do when the Bond novels become public domain in 10 years time, when anyone could make a James Bond film?

    Is that true, though? Does the novels becoming public domain automatically mean that anyone can produce the films? I'm only asking because I honestly don't know how that works.

    I don't know for sure either as it's all very confusing, but I'm always very dubious. 'James Bond 007' is a trademark (not copyright) which is held by Danjaq and MGM in multiple territories and will remain theirs for as long as they go on renewing it, much like the Coca Cola Company own 'Coca Cola'- trademarks are forever, unlike copyright. So I don't see how anyone could make a Bond film with James Bond in it apart from Danjaq/MGM.

    Indeed. And I take it that important if not essential elements such as the James Bond Theme, the gun barrel opener and perhaps some characters such as "Q" are entirely owned by Danjac/MGM, no?

    Yes that must be true.
    Music rights are probably even more complicated, with publishing houses and all that, but certainly no-one other than the proper rights-holders could use it, yes. And they still own all of the previous movies, and all studios like a back catalogue to exploit on streaming, physical media etc.
  • Posts: 1,986
    From a writing standpoint, I appreciate the difficulty of going somewhere new. As a viewer, I am tired of the formulas and expectations that have become tiresome and cliched.

    Having recently re-watched DAF while reading the novel I was astounded by what a bad film it is. All the more disappointing as SC remains my favorite Bond. After the brilliant OHMSS, the film returns to a familiar formula while anticipating the RM era. No wonder Connery seems disengaged. There simply isn't anything there to work with. It feels old, and silly, and cliched. What a betrayal of a much better story in the novel.

    I don't want to see another story arc in which Bond ages out by last film. I don't want to see a new Bond film in which I know we're eventually going to learn of Bond's burden this time. Grieving over a death, upset to the point of resignation, concerns about his liver and lungs, Bond alone in a tropical hideaway. Been there done that.

    Certain aspects of a Bond will always remain, but a series can be reinvented that doesn't feel like a stale rehash of what has come before.

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    I actually thought Connery came off energetic in DAF. I dunno where anyone gets “tired” from his performance in that.

    I actually prefer the film. A few sequences aside, the novel is kind of a slog.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    I actually thought Connery came off energetic in DAF. I dunno where anyone gets “tired” from his performance in that.

    I actually prefer the film. A few sequences aside, the novel is kind of a slog.

    💯 on both counts.

    Connery may’ve looked a little heavier in his return, but the man was light on his toes.

    And DAF, the novel, is my least favourite. It IS a slog to get through, and I think the film was one of those rare times (like Goldfinger), where, warts and all, it’s better than the Fleming creation.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 2023 Posts: 16,383
    I actually thought Connery came off energetic in DAF. I dunno where anyone gets “tired” from his performance in that.

    I actually prefer the film. A few sequences aside, the novel is kind of a slog.

    Yeah he's fully engaged in DAF. He's giving a lighter, more knowing performance than before, but that's still not easy to do. He's being paid a record amount: he's giving them their value for it.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,208
    He was paid a record amount and he showed up out of shape, bloated and poorly groomed. I am a huge Connery fan but not only was that unprofessional but it also it did a disservice to the character and fans of his films.

    It was something completely in his control. Just look at him, 9 years later, in "The Great Train Robbery; he came in lean , fit and looking impeccable. That is what he should have brought to the set of DAF.

    One thing about Daniel, he came in prepared for all of his films; hopefully the next actor will show the same consideration.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,383
    When you say ‘poorly groomed’..?
    He wasn’t in the finest shape of his life but looked good enough to me!
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    edited September 2023 Posts: 4,629
    https://www.cbr.com/report-christopher-nolan-reboot-james-bond-before-wga-strike/

    Not too open the Nolan rumors again, but there was something I thought about. What if EON is planning a opening two-parter. Better planned of course a bit better than CR and QOS. The number one way to achieve this would be hiring a director for both parts right away. The only 2 times where the director came back for that are Terence Young for DN to FRWL and Sam Mendes for SF and SP. It did feel more natural, in terms of the storylines, even for SP, in the long run.
    Mallory wrote: »
    delfloria wrote: »
    I think the real question is, where does Bond go after Eon. That day will come.

    I think i'ts pretty safe to say EON will mantain the rights to cinematic Bond for a very long time until that day happens, and when it does, i hope they wisely choose their succesor.

    That may be, but who will be running EoN?

    MGW is in his early 80s. Will he be continuing?
    Presumably BB is going to continue.
    Will Gregg Wilson be taking over from his dad?

    What will EoN do when the Bond novels become public domain in 10 years time, when anyone could make a James Bond film?

    I trust Amazon just slightly. Clearly, Gregg Wilson is being planned to take over. He’s probably either helping with casting and writing. More than location scouting and photography, now. He’s also making cameo appearances like his dad. MGW is getting too old, especially if stepbrother Blofeld was his idea. Even Cubby said enough is enough, with old age. BB needs to grow beyond DC and Purvis and Wade. She needs to stop focusing on family soap opera dramas, that feel to artsy for Bond. What I’m saying is that Bond truly needs a reset in more ways than one. The Nolan brothers could be that answer. They could introduce characters like May and Charmian Bond, like in the style of their Dark Knight trilogy. I also imagine Nolan (or any director, now) wanting to reinvent Blofeld in particular. Or another classic villain. I’d go for Goldfinger or Trevelyan, as they’re a lot of real life Goldfingers in the world now, namely politicians and CEOs. Trevelyan could be a multi story arc where he slowly becomes evil.

    As for the books going into the public domain, honestly, EON should use a continuation novel or two for a film basis. There’s quite a decent amount of great stories that aren’t Fleming, that could be set in the present day. Are we really going to get excited about another Purvis and Wade screenplay? EON doesn’t need a full time writer like them or Richard Maibaum. Always be pushing Bond forward. There’s many ways to do it. Sometimes, EON needs to step out of their comfort zone, with regular cast and crew members. There’s loyalty, and there’s too much faithfulness. BB needs to realize this like her father did with Roger Moore. At the end of the day, these are entertainment. But some people need to have their time to move on, just like Bond at the end of a adventure. Can’t be loyal to EON’s real life M forever!
  • Posts: 1,986
    I am not critical of Connery's appearance in DAF. The problem is a lousy script that didn't give him much to do. I would much rather have seen Spectreville and the crashing train rather than another space ship going out of control and a diamond encrusted laser shooting red blobs at various points on the globe.

    Much remains in Fleming's novels that could be used in future Bond films.
  • The Power Rangers first simply went to space before going to another galaxy. Bond has already been to space. Maybe it's time for him to travel to another galaxy?
  • TheSkyfallen06TheSkyfallen06 Buenos Aires, Argentina.
    Posts: 1,101
    The Power Rangers first simply went to space before going to another galaxy. Bond has already been to space. Maybe it's time for him to travel to another galaxy?

    May if i borrow this idea for a Bond novel i plan to publish on Canada?
    I'll pay you with a Delicatessen in stainless steel.
  • TheSkyfallen06TheSkyfallen06 Buenos Aires, Argentina.
    Posts: 1,101
    Jokes aside, i actually want another sci-fi Bond flick as Moonraker or Die Another Day, as much as it will never happen again, just to see how much of a riot the fanbase would cause.
    Also for my personal pleasure, of course.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,208
    Jokes aside, i actually want another sci-fi Bond flick as Moonraker or Die Another Day, as much as it will never happen again, just to see how much of a riot the fanbase would cause.
    Also for my personal pleasure, of course.

    One of the thing that I really liked in No Time To Die was the " winged submersible"; it was just enough of the fantastic brought into the mostly grounded Craig era.

  • I liked how NTTD was much more fantastical than Craig’s first four in general. We had a guy with a robotic eye, Nanobots, the winged submersible, and the EMP Watch. Those elements all seemed much more “Brosnan Era” type of material than what Craig had been given up until that point, and I liked that.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,208
    I liked how NTTD was much more fantastical than Craig’s first four in general. We had a guy with a robotic eye, Nanobots, the winged submersible, and the EMP Watch. Those elements all seemed much more “Brosnan Era” type of material than what Craig had been given up until that point, and I liked that.

    I have some serious issues with NTTD, the least of which is Bond's death, but I did like the way it melded the different approaches
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited September 2023 Posts: 3,152
    Have to say, I was the opposite and disliked all of those aspects of NTTD. I hope the next run doesn't revert to or increase those elements. I could do without any more Brosnan-era stock fools like Obruchev, too, tbh. I know that these are the things that a lot of people want to see more of, though, so I don't envy EON trying to balance the various ingredients to everyone's satisfaction!
  • TheSkyfallen06TheSkyfallen06 Buenos Aires, Argentina.
    Posts: 1,101
    Venutius wrote: »
    Have to say, I was the opposite and disliked all of those aspects of NTTD. I hope the next run doesn't revert to or increase those elements. I could do without any more Brosnan-era stock fools like Obruchev, too, tbh. I know that these are the things that a lot of people want to see more of, though, so I don't envy EON trying to balance the various ingredients to everyone's satisfaction!

    That's what i said earlier, the next Bond needs to achieve to balance the tone between the lighter and the grittier entries.
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