Where does Bond go after Craig?

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Comments

  • Since62 wrote: »
    Why would anyone WANT to use TSWLM book material ? Much of it is background on a character's coming of age, and then most of the rest is a battle with a couple thugs in a cheap motel in the Northeastern US. (yawn) A remake of/borrowing of/homage to the film's story would be far more interesting. it would be Bond...and beyond. But seriously, folks ! It could be done without the same degree of jokiness. Plenty of aspects could be improved: Delete Bond learning how to re-program a missile's target from briefly scanning a handy manual (ugh...yes, that really was in there). Rather than have the chosen survivors of apocalypse live under the sea, perhaps they'd stay there but temporarily. (Actually, the whole wipe-out-the-rest-of-humanity idea has many problems: rotting corpses, smell, ruins over much of the earth, not enough folks left to make things. So the evil plan needs some work.) But there's a lot with which to work.

    And you think that is better than some of the scenes from TSWLM novel? Wow.

    Give me a gritty scene about a girl about to get raped and killed in a seedy motel by 2 gangsters, only to be disturbed by Bond knocking on the door, thinking there is a vacancy, any day over the stuff you've just described. I want Bond down-to-earth, not outlandish, childish crap.
  • 007InAction007InAction Australia
    edited September 2020 Posts: 2,523
    More of this great acting, after craig goes.....
    EjEGKPBWAAEF_dn?format=jpg&name=large
    And more girls in bikini's like this lady
    EjGmJ51WAAAPPKf?format=jpg&name=large
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    More than anything I want Bond to move forward after Craig. Each new era should bring Bond up to date, and the early Craig years were fresh and exciting, but I think after 2012 the series has become very reliant on tired tropes that don't reflect the advances in storytelling we've see fron the rest of cinema. Compare SPECTRE to so many other modern movies, and it is very paint by numbers, both visually and narratively, and Bond 25 looks to be exactly the same kind of thing.
    When Brosnan took over from Dalton it was like "woah" this is a leap forward in terms of production. The way the material was approached was just so much more dynamic and engaging, made LTK look like a TV show. The same thing is true when Craig took over amd they ditched the awkward speed-ramping and visual gimmickery of DAD, and delivered a more organic feeling film with natural ebbs and flows in drama. When it comes time for the next Bond to come in, whenever that is probably 2025, I want to feel like we are stepping into a new era, that Bond has finally caught up to 2020, and we have our hero back with us again.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 2020 Posts: 16,359
    Which movies are ones you think have moved on visually in 2020? I agree that NTTD more or less looks like another Daniel Craig Bond film, but I'm not sure in what way that it looks somehow older than other movies around- I can't think of much which looks substantially different..?
    Since62 wrote: »
    Why would anyone WANT to use TSWLM book material ? Much of it is background on a character's coming of age, and then most of the rest is a battle with a couple thugs in a cheap motel in the Northeastern US. (yawn) A remake of/borrowing of/homage to the film's story would be far more interesting. it would be Bond...and beyond. But seriously, folks ! It could be done without the same degree of jokiness. Plenty of aspects could be improved: Delete Bond learning how to re-program a missile's target from briefly scanning a handy manual (ugh...yes, that really was in there).

    I must say that moment has never been anything I've been offended by. It's funny how different folks have different levels of what's acceptable.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    I think it'll be interesting where they take Bond next, I imagine they'll go lighter. I personally hope not, but given the recent revival of the Mission Impossible series, they need to keep up with the changing trends. When Daniel was cast, heroes were becoming darker more complex characters and now quite honestly they've gone the other way (mainly because of the superhero's) so I can see Eon pushing for a more light-hearted Bond.

    I would rather them go back to the early Connery era style and have stand alone adventures were the story is related but not dependant upon previous missions.
    I think they'll go for a more spy driven aspect to it, because Craig's Bond is an assassin and is more brutal but less like a spy in a sense.
    I doubt they'll stray too far from the Daniel Craig run of films because they've been the most successful in the series, so it would seem silly to throw that all away and go for something completely different
  • 007InAction007InAction Australia
    edited October 2020 Posts: 2,523
    EjGZw9SXYAMc-vm?format=jpg&name=medium
    No more 50 year old bond girls and no more ott melodrama please babs.
  • George_KaplanGeorge_Kaplan Being chauffeured by Tibbett
    edited October 2020 Posts: 678
    Since62 wrote: »
    Why would anyone WANT to use TSWLM book material ? Much of it is background on a character's coming of age, and then most of the rest is a battle with a couple thugs in a cheap motel in the Northeastern US. (yawn) A remake of/borrowing of/homage to the film's story would be far more interesting. it would be Bond...and beyond. But seriously, folks ! It could be done without the same degree of jokiness. Plenty of aspects could be improved: Delete Bond learning how to re-program a missile's target from briefly scanning a handy manual (ugh...yes, that really was in there). Rather than have the chosen survivors of apocalypse live under the sea, perhaps they'd stay there but temporarily. (Actually, the whole wipe-out-the-rest-of-humanity idea has many problems: rotting corpses, smell, ruins over much of the earth, not enough folks left to make things. So the evil plan needs some work.) But there's a lot with which to work.

    And you think that is better than some of the scenes from TSWLM novel? Wow.

    Give me a gritty scene about a girl about to get raped and killed in a seedy motel by 2 gangsters, only to be disturbed by Bond knocking on the door, thinking there is a vacancy, any day over the stuff you've just described. I want Bond down-to-earth, not outlandish, childish crap.

    There's no way they'd try that now. People were upset over Bond's shower with Severine and that was in 2012. Also, Bond films are not serious dramas no matter how gritty they make them. Even in LTK, the rape was done off screen and only implied (in the film that is).

    That being said, you could still cherry pick elements from the book. Have a woman who's a low-level employee at a big company (not a motel) who's caught up in a major crime. Similar to Natalya in GE. You can give her the same name and include hints to her backstory to establish that she's not just the character in name only, and use the fact that she's been let down by all the men in her life and make her slow to trust Bond.

    It could also be interesting to see Bond's actions evaluated by a relatively normal character. All of the women in the Craig films have been part of Bond's world in some way, whether they're agents or have personal ties to the villain, so having an innocent woman witnessing the violence of Bond's world for the first time has potential for an interesting conflict in the story, making Bond more morally ambiguous than he's been in the films. Something the novel tried to do but quite halfheartedly in my opinion.

    Maybe I'm talking rubbish but I think that would be more interesting on a thematic level than having something from someone's past coming back to haunt them again.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited October 2020 Posts: 8,216
    EjGZw9SXYAMc-vm?format=jpg&name=medium
    No more 50 year old bond girls.

    There are female models in their mid-20s who wish they looked as good as Monica Bellucci did in Spectre.
  • George_KaplanGeorge_Kaplan Being chauffeured by Tibbett
    edited October 2020 Posts: 678
    There are several moments that are nods
    EjGZw9SXYAMc-vm?format=jpg&name=medium
    No more 50 year old bond girls.

    There are female models in their mid-20s who wish they looked as good as Monica Bellucci did in Spectre.

    Quite agree. Monica was great in the 3 seconds she was in the movie. I'm all for them casting older women. Plenty of great looking actresses in their 40s and 50s, and it's more believable than casting a 20-something as a doctor, geologist, or (dare I say it) a nuclear physicist.
  • Posts: 16,153
    I'd love so see future Bond women in their 30's or 40's. I always thought Jane Seymour looked amazing in her 40's as did Bellucci at 50.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I'd love so see future Bond women in their 30's or 40's. I always thought Jane Seymour looked amazing in her 40's as did Bellucci at 50.

    Jane Seymour STILL looks great:

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/celebrities/2020/02/18/jane-seymour-and-five-kids-make-rare-public-outing/4793261002/
  • edited October 2020 Posts: 6,709
    Monica Bellucci should be in every Bond film as a different character, a bit like Maud Adams ;)

    So should Jane Seymour, btw ;)
  • Posts: 3,327
    Since62 wrote: »
    Why would anyone WANT to use TSWLM book material ? Much of it is background on a character's coming of age, and then most of the rest is a battle with a couple thugs in a cheap motel in the Northeastern US. (yawn) A remake of/borrowing of/homage to the film's story would be far more interesting. it would be Bond...and beyond. But seriously, folks ! It could be done without the same degree of jokiness. Plenty of aspects could be improved: Delete Bond learning how to re-program a missile's target from briefly scanning a handy manual (ugh...yes, that really was in there). Rather than have the chosen survivors of apocalypse live under the sea, perhaps they'd stay there but temporarily. (Actually, the whole wipe-out-the-rest-of-humanity idea has many problems: rotting corpses, smell, ruins over much of the earth, not enough folks left to make things. So the evil plan needs some work.) But there's a lot with which to work.

    And you think that is better than some of the scenes from TSWLM novel? Wow.

    Give me a gritty scene about a girl about to get raped and killed in a seedy motel by 2 gangsters, only to be disturbed by Bond knocking on the door, thinking there is a vacancy, any day over the stuff you've just described. I want Bond down-to-earth, not outlandish, childish crap.

    There's no way they'd try that now. People were upset over Bond's shower with Severine and that was in 2012. Also, Bond films are not serious dramas no matter how gritty they make them. Even in LTK, the rape was done off screen and only implied (in the film that is).

    That being said, you could still cherry pick elements from the book. Have a woman who's a low-level employee at a big company (not a motel) who's caught up in a major crime. Similar to Natalya in GE. You can give her the same name and include hints to her backstory to establish that she's not just the character in name only, and use the fact that she's been let down by all the men in her life and make her slow to trust Bond.

    It could also be interesting to see Bond's actions evaluated by a relatively normal character. All of the women in the Craig films have been part of Bond's world in some way, whether they're agents or have personal ties to the villain, so having an innocent woman witnessing the violence of Bond's world for the first time has potential for an interesting conflict in the story, making Bond more morally ambiguous than he's been in the films. Something the novel tried to do but quite halfheartedly in my opinion.

    Maybe I'm talking rubbish but I think that would be more interesting on a thematic level than having something from someone's past coming back to haunt them again.

    Nice ideas there, and I think the motel scene with the shootout could work, depending on how it was handled (in 2020, extremely carefully, lol).
  • Posts: 1,630
    With regard to using anything other than the title to TSWLM, Fleming sold film rights but for this book he conveyed only the title. It is true that the character Horror sure seems to have inspired Jaws (steel-toothed killer), but I think that without a specific, special and new agreement with the Ian Fleming Foundation and/or Fleming's heirs, using the content of TSWLM book is legally barred. My other point was -- Who would want to ? Really ? Most of the book is a memoir by V Michel. While it contained dramatic personal events in her life they really would not serve well for a Bond film. Then, when Bond does enter the story, it's a story of a couple small-time hoods terrorizing a couple people in a motel in the Northeastern US...THAT looks intriguing ? That would be a tv show or movie and a non-original one, at that. You get beyond that, to Bond-as-St. George-the-dragon-slayer and you're beyond TSWLM to a theme and plot device that's been used a number of times and can be found in a number of the books. Folks -- everything Ian Fleming wrote does not necessarily lend itself to a worthwhile theatrical production...
  • Posts: 16,153
    peter wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I'd love so see future Bond women in their 30's or 40's. I always thought Jane Seymour looked amazing in her 40's as did Bellucci at 50.

    Jane Seymour STILL looks great:

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/celebrities/2020/02/18/jane-seymour-and-five-kids-make-rare-public-outing/4793261002/

    She looks astonishing.
  • Posts: 9,846
    echo wrote: »
    Risico007 wrote: »
    Risico007 wrote: »
    Truthful adaptation would mean the movies should be set in the 1950's? I don't think, I would like it. If so, we only would have 12 movies. And they will never do TSWLM, as Ian Fleming explicitly had it in the contract with Cubby and Harry, that they might use the title, but not use the novel as such (apparently Fleming disliked it). IMO one of the reasons, why we got 24 (25?) movies in 48 years, is, that they always made Bond a character for the present time. And they used material from the novels in the movies. Not the whole story, but elements of it (LTK).

    If you look at FYEO, LTK, OP, TLD and CR, all of these adapted Fleming faithfully to modern times (whether its scenes, short story or full novel story), so it can be done.

    As for TSWLM, Fleming has been dead a long time now, and I don't think its beyond the wit of man to start legal proceedings with the Fleming estate to use some of the content from that novel, and I doubt the Fleming estate would pass either, if it kept the memory of Ian alive (and maybe a nice wad of cash too). The only part really worth using is the second half of the book, with Viv Michel holed up in a seedy motel by gangsters, and rescued by Bond - but I think this would work well on screen.

    EON are no strangers to legal wranglings to use Fleming material. They've spent decades doing it, ever since TB.

    The issue here is The spy who loved me has already been adapted 3 times

    The title and the character of horror were done in 77
    The main action sequence from the novel was done note for note in for your eyes only
    And Paris always felt like a Vivine substitute (there are two subtle nods to the character the first being the gun under the pillow line the second being the whole Newspaper boy he told me he loved me thing)

    I would far prefer them tackle a novel that hasn’t been cut up and done three different times like Diamonds are forever or the short stories from a view to a Kill and the hildebrand rarity hell even octopussy could be updated and utilized for an interesting plot

    Where was the TSWLM action scene in FYEO? I don't recall gangsters in a remote motel roughing up a broad, and then Bond rescuing her in a shootout. I must have missed that?

    Agreed, DAF hasn't been properly done, nor AVTAK or OP.

    However Hildebrand has been done in LTK, split over 2 characters - Sanchez is that character, whip an' all, and then Milton Krest is name checked as another character (who also owns a boat).

    Shall I quote the passage the killers make their way toward bond in a car bond shoots the driver and car goes over the cliff and it was in both areas

    So a car chase and shoot out is now a direct adaptation of TSWLM? lol. Don't waste my time with crap like this.

    I never saw that as a direct adaptation of TSWLM whatsoever. Where is the seedy motel? The gangsters threatening rape. Bond knocking at the door seeing the vacancy sign? Viv beckoning Bond in, and then him exchanging dialogue with a couple of thugs once indise, knowing something is wrong.

    Weren't the two thugs sort of like Jaws and the bald guy?

    I also think the end of QoS was a bit inspired by TSWLM.

    Fleming knew what he was doing when he withheld the adaptation. But the man knew how to write a title. Trying to think of a comparable modern writer who introduced so many phrases to the vernacular. The many cultural riffs on FRWL alone...

    There are loose adaptations littered all over the films - MR>DAD, TMWTGG>LTK, SF>TMWTGG, MR>QOS, etc. Some more looser than others, when you really have to dig deep to look for similarities, such as the very loose ones mentioned above regarding TSWLM, when they could be nothing more than mere coincidences.

    But true adaptations are what we are looking for. FYEO directly takes the characters and plot from the Fleming shorts stories, plus a scene from LALD, OP directly adapts the same short story, as does TLD, and LTK directly adapts scenes from LALD.

    And CR also does so with the entire novel (updated to fit modern times, of course).

    The closest we have had to this in recent times is the torture scene in SP, which is pretty much a direct adaptation of the scene from Colonel Sun.

    I am sorry what version of cotopussy did you watch or read ...


    because the short story has NOTHING to do with Clowns and the circus or India etc
  • Posts: 3,327
    Risico007 wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    Risico007 wrote: »
    Risico007 wrote: »
    Truthful adaptation would mean the movies should be set in the 1950's? I don't think, I would like it. If so, we only would have 12 movies. And they will never do TSWLM, as Ian Fleming explicitly had it in the contract with Cubby and Harry, that they might use the title, but not use the novel as such (apparently Fleming disliked it). IMO one of the reasons, why we got 24 (25?) movies in 48 years, is, that they always made Bond a character for the present time. And they used material from the novels in the movies. Not the whole story, but elements of it (LTK).

    If you look at FYEO, LTK, OP, TLD and CR, all of these adapted Fleming faithfully to modern times (whether its scenes, short story or full novel story), so it can be done.

    As for TSWLM, Fleming has been dead a long time now, and I don't think its beyond the wit of man to start legal proceedings with the Fleming estate to use some of the content from that novel, and I doubt the Fleming estate would pass either, if it kept the memory of Ian alive (and maybe a nice wad of cash too). The only part really worth using is the second half of the book, with Viv Michel holed up in a seedy motel by gangsters, and rescued by Bond - but I think this would work well on screen.

    EON are no strangers to legal wranglings to use Fleming material. They've spent decades doing it, ever since TB.

    The issue here is The spy who loved me has already been adapted 3 times

    The title and the character of horror were done in 77
    The main action sequence from the novel was done note for note in for your eyes only
    And Paris always felt like a Vivine substitute (there are two subtle nods to the character the first being the gun under the pillow line the second being the whole Newspaper boy he told me he loved me thing)

    I would far prefer them tackle a novel that hasn’t been cut up and done three different times like Diamonds are forever or the short stories from a view to a Kill and the hildebrand rarity hell even octopussy could be updated and utilized for an interesting plot

    Where was the TSWLM action scene in FYEO? I don't recall gangsters in a remote motel roughing up a broad, and then Bond rescuing her in a shootout. I must have missed that?

    Agreed, DAF hasn't been properly done, nor AVTAK or OP.

    However Hildebrand has been done in LTK, split over 2 characters - Sanchez is that character, whip an' all, and then Milton Krest is name checked as another character (who also owns a boat).

    Shall I quote the passage the killers make their way toward bond in a car bond shoots the driver and car goes over the cliff and it was in both areas

    So a car chase and shoot out is now a direct adaptation of TSWLM? lol. Don't waste my time with crap like this.

    I never saw that as a direct adaptation of TSWLM whatsoever. Where is the seedy motel? The gangsters threatening rape. Bond knocking at the door seeing the vacancy sign? Viv beckoning Bond in, and then him exchanging dialogue with a couple of thugs once indise, knowing something is wrong.

    Weren't the two thugs sort of like Jaws and the bald guy?

    I also think the end of QoS was a bit inspired by TSWLM.

    Fleming knew what he was doing when he withheld the adaptation. But the man knew how to write a title. Trying to think of a comparable modern writer who introduced so many phrases to the vernacular. The many cultural riffs on FRWL alone...

    There are loose adaptations littered all over the films - MR>DAD, TMWTGG>LTK, SF>TMWTGG, MR>QOS, etc. Some more looser than others, when you really have to dig deep to look for similarities, such as the very loose ones mentioned above regarding TSWLM, when they could be nothing more than mere coincidences.

    But true adaptations are what we are looking for. FYEO directly takes the characters and plot from the Fleming shorts stories, plus a scene from LALD, OP directly adapts the same short story, as does TLD, and LTK directly adapts scenes from LALD.

    And CR also does so with the entire novel (updated to fit modern times, of course).

    The closest we have had to this in recent times is the torture scene in SP, which is pretty much a direct adaptation of the scene from Colonel Sun.

    I am sorry what version of cotopussy did you watch or read ...


    because the short story has NOTHING to do with Clowns and the circus or India etc

    Of course it doesn't. Where did I say it does? Bizarre.... :-S

    I was referring to the entire auction scene with the fabrege egg, even quoting `the property of a lady'.

    When I said OP, I meant the short story from the OP compilation novel - TPOAL. Sorry, maybe I should have been more specific to what I was referring to.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,359
    And of course the events of the Octopussy short story are mentioned as having happened.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited October 2020 Posts: 6,287
    Since62 wrote: »
    With regard to using anything other than the title to TSWLM, Fleming sold film rights but for this book he conveyed only the title. It is true that the character Horror sure seems to have inspired Jaws (steel-toothed killer), but I think that without a specific, special and new agreement with the Ian Fleming Foundation and/or Fleming's heirs, using the content of TSWLM book is legally barred. My other point was -- Who would want to ? Really ? Most of the book is a memoir by V Michel. While it contained dramatic personal events in her life they really would not serve well for a Bond film. Then, when Bond does enter the story, it's a story of a couple small-time hoods terrorizing a couple people in a motel in the Northeastern US...THAT looks intriguing ? That would be a tv show or movie and a non-original one, at that. You get beyond that, to Bond-as-St. George-the-dragon-slayer and you're beyond TSWLM to a theme and plot device that's been used a number of times and can be found in a number of the books. Folks -- everything Ian Fleming wrote does not necessarily lend itself to a worthwhile theatrical production...

    I don't know...Fleming wrote a really interesting Tesco shopping list in 1961 that has great potential to be brought to the silver screen.
  • edited October 2020 Posts: 3,327
    Since62 wrote: »
    With regard to using anything other than the title to TSWLM, Fleming sold film rights but for this book he conveyed only the title. It is true that the character Horror sure seems to have inspired Jaws (steel-toothed killer), but I think that without a specific, special and new agreement with the Ian Fleming Foundation and/or Fleming's heirs, using the content of TSWLM book is legally barred. My other point was -- Who would want to ? Really ? Most of the book is a memoir by V Michel. While it contained dramatic personal events in her life they really would not serve well for a Bond film. Then, when Bond does enter the story, it's a story of a couple small-time hoods terrorizing a couple people in a motel in the Northeastern US...THAT looks intriguing ? That would be a tv show or movie and a non-original one, at that. You get beyond that, to Bond-as-St. George-the-dragon-slayer and you're beyond TSWLM to a theme and plot device that's been used a number of times and can be found in a number of the books. Folks -- everything Ian Fleming wrote does not necessarily lend itself to a worthwhile theatrical production...

    Guess we agree to disagree then. Personally I would love a scene with 2 nasty gangsters about to get rough with a girl in a seedy motel, and Bond to appear out of nowhere to rescue the damsel in distress.

    Viv Michel as a character could very easily be carved out as the main female lead. She is probably the most interesting female character Fleming wrote, and the only one with a proper back story too. The entire second half of the novel could be used as the basis for a script, the same way TLD short story is used as the basis for the film, or TPOAL for OP, or the short stories from FYEO, etc.

    Even if the running time of the scenes lasts no more than 20 minutes - girl working in remote roadside motel, gangsters arrive, get rough with her, girl tries to escape, gets caught, Bond turns up, decides to stay, sleeps with her, shootout in the ground ensues - this would still make for an interesting introduction to a female character, and keeps us die-hard Fleming purists happy too.

    The above is not that much different to how Tracy is introduced in the beginning of OHMSS, both in the book and the film, before we eventually discover the gangsters are actually working for her father and are protecting her.
  • edited October 2020 Posts: 3,327
    echo wrote: »
    Since62 wrote: »
    With regard to using anything other than the title to TSWLM, Fleming sold film rights but for this book he conveyed only the title. It is true that the character Horror sure seems to have inspired Jaws (steel-toothed killer), but I think that without a specific, special and new agreement with the Ian Fleming Foundation and/or Fleming's heirs, using the content of TSWLM book is legally barred. My other point was -- Who would want to ? Really ? Most of the book is a memoir by V Michel. While it contained dramatic personal events in her life they really would not serve well for a Bond film. Then, when Bond does enter the story, it's a story of a couple small-time hoods terrorizing a couple people in a motel in the Northeastern US...THAT looks intriguing ? That would be a tv show or movie and a non-original one, at that. You get beyond that, to Bond-as-St. George-the-dragon-slayer and you're beyond TSWLM to a theme and plot device that's been used a number of times and can be found in a number of the books. Folks -- everything Ian Fleming wrote does not necessarily lend itself to a worthwhile theatrical production...

    I don't know...Fleming wrote a really interesting Tesco shopping list in 1961 that has great potential to be brought to the silver screen.

    Really? Where can I find it?

    Let me guess what was on the list - eggs, more eggs, more eggs, Frank Cooper's marmalade, Pinaud shampoo, Tiptree jam, etc. ;)
  • 007InAction007InAction Australia
    edited October 2020 Posts: 2,523
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I'd love so see future Bond women in their 30's or 40's. I always thought Jane Seymour looked amazing in her 40's as did Bellucci at 50.

    They look good for their age but not suited as bond girls.

    Does anyone really want to see any more 50 year old bond girls ? I wouldn't think so.
    Diversity gone crazy again ?
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    I welcome seeing more 50 year old Bond Girls, just so long as they aren't as underused as Monica Bellucci was. They got up on their soapbox, talking enough about it, and yet it was a tiny thankless role.

    Too many good actresses get cast aside when they hit a certain age. Given that Barabara claims to be a feminist, and is of a certain age herself, one would think that she might use Bond to help them out. I said in another thread fairly recently, that we don't see Diane Lane onscreen enough these days. Over to you, Barbara....
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited October 2020 Posts: 16,359
    Since62 wrote: »
    With regard to using anything other than the title to TSWLM, Fleming sold film rights but for this book he conveyed only the title. It is true that the character Horror sure seems to have inspired Jaws (steel-toothed killer), but I think that without a specific, special and new agreement with the Ian Fleming Foundation and/or Fleming's heirs, using the content of TSWLM book is legally barred. My other point was -- Who would want to ? Really ? Most of the book is a memoir by V Michel. While it contained dramatic personal events in her life they really would not serve well for a Bond film. Then, when Bond does enter the story, it's a story of a couple small-time hoods terrorizing a couple people in a motel in the Northeastern US...THAT looks intriguing ? That would be a tv show or movie and a non-original one, at that. You get beyond that, to Bond-as-St. George-the-dragon-slayer and you're beyond TSWLM to a theme and plot device that's been used a number of times and can be found in a number of the books. Folks -- everything Ian Fleming wrote does not necessarily lend itself to a worthwhile theatrical production...

    Guess we agree to disagree then. Personally I would love a scene with 2 nasty gangsters about to get rough with a girl in a seedy motel, and Bond to appear out of nowhere to rescue the damsel in distress.

    It's absolutely fine, but it doesn't sound the most compelling or original idea for a scene. I couldn't get excited either way about the prospect of seeing it.
  • Posts: 3,327
    mtm wrote: »
    Since62 wrote: »
    With regard to using anything other than the title to TSWLM, Fleming sold film rights but for this book he conveyed only the title. It is true that the character Horror sure seems to have inspired Jaws (steel-toothed killer), but I think that without a specific, special and new agreement with the Ian Fleming Foundation and/or Fleming's heirs, using the content of TSWLM book is legally barred. My other point was -- Who would want to ? Really ? Most of the book is a memoir by V Michel. While it contained dramatic personal events in her life they really would not serve well for a Bond film. Then, when Bond does enter the story, it's a story of a couple small-time hoods terrorizing a couple people in a motel in the Northeastern US...THAT looks intriguing ? That would be a tv show or movie and a non-original one, at that. You get beyond that, to Bond-as-St. George-the-dragon-slayer and you're beyond TSWLM to a theme and plot device that's been used a number of times and can be found in a number of the books. Folks -- everything Ian Fleming wrote does not necessarily lend itself to a worthwhile theatrical production...

    Guess we agree to disagree then. Personally I would love a scene with 2 nasty gangsters about to get rough with a girl in a seedy motel, and Bond to appear out of nowhere to rescue the damsel in distress.

    It's absolutely fine, but it doesn't sound the most compelling or original idea for a scene. I couldn't get excited either way about the prospect of seeing it.

    Depends on how its done. Gangsters and Bond have occasionally crossed paths (GF, OHMSS, DAF, LTK, etc.) but if its done in a gripping, tense way it could work. Its the one area where someone like Tarantino could have flexed his creative muscles and shone on a Bond film. He knows how to build up suspense and tension with these kind of scenes.

    The slow build up with the hoods in the motel before Viv realises she is in danger could be a nice departure from what audiences traditionally expect from a Bond film. It would stray more into Breaking Bad/Scarface territory, with a very tense build up, making the pay off more sweeter when the audiences breathe a sigh of relief as Bond finally enters the picture.

    The novel plays very much this way, and there is no reason why this couldn't be adapted in the same way.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    edited October 2020 Posts: 4,615
    I welcome seeing more 50 year old Bond Girls, just so long as they aren't as underused as Monica Bellucci was. They got up on their soapbox, talking enough about it, and yet it was a tiny thankless role.

    Too many good actresses get cast aside when they hit a certain age. Given that Barabara claims to be a feminist, and is of a certain age herself, one would think that she might use Bond to help them out. I said in another thread fairly recently, that we don't see Diane Lane onscreen enough these days. Over to you, Barbara....

    I’ve been saying for a while now that Diane Lane should be in a Bond Film. As a villain, preferably, as she’s wanted to do that for a while now. A modern day Irma Bunt or Rosa Klebb, perhaps?
  • Posts: 9,846
    Risico007 wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    Risico007 wrote: »
    Risico007 wrote: »
    Truthful adaptation would mean the movies should be set in the 1950's? I don't think, I would like it. If so, we only would have 12 movies. And they will never do TSWLM, as Ian Fleming explicitly had it in the contract with Cubby and Harry, that they might use the title, but not use the novel as such (apparently Fleming disliked it). IMO one of the reasons, why we got 24 (25?) movies in 48 years, is, that they always made Bond a character for the present time. And they used material from the novels in the movies. Not the whole story, but elements of it (LTK).

    If you look at FYEO, LTK, OP, TLD and CR, all of these adapted Fleming faithfully to modern times (whether its scenes, short story or full novel story), so it can be done.

    As for TSWLM, Fleming has been dead a long time now, and I don't think its beyond the wit of man to start legal proceedings with the Fleming estate to use some of the content from that novel, and I doubt the Fleming estate would pass either, if it kept the memory of Ian alive (and maybe a nice wad of cash too). The only part really worth using is the second half of the book, with Viv Michel holed up in a seedy motel by gangsters, and rescued by Bond - but I think this would work well on screen.

    EON are no strangers to legal wranglings to use Fleming material. They've spent decades doing it, ever since TB.

    The issue here is The spy who loved me has already been adapted 3 times

    The title and the character of horror were done in 77
    The main action sequence from the novel was done note for note in for your eyes only
    And Paris always felt like a Vivine substitute (there are two subtle nods to the character the first being the gun under the pillow line the second being the whole Newspaper boy he told me he loved me thing)

    I would far prefer them tackle a novel that hasn’t been cut up and done three different times like Diamonds are forever or the short stories from a view to a Kill and the hildebrand rarity hell even octopussy could be updated and utilized for an interesting plot

    Where was the TSWLM action scene in FYEO? I don't recall gangsters in a remote motel roughing up a broad, and then Bond rescuing her in a shootout. I must have missed that?

    Agreed, DAF hasn't been properly done, nor AVTAK or OP.

    However Hildebrand has been done in LTK, split over 2 characters - Sanchez is that character, whip an' all, and then Milton Krest is name checked as another character (who also owns a boat).

    Shall I quote the passage the killers make their way toward bond in a car bond shoots the driver and car goes over the cliff and it was in both areas

    So a car chase and shoot out is now a direct adaptation of TSWLM? lol. Don't waste my time with crap like this.

    I never saw that as a direct adaptation of TSWLM whatsoever. Where is the seedy motel? The gangsters threatening rape. Bond knocking at the door seeing the vacancy sign? Viv beckoning Bond in, and then him exchanging dialogue with a couple of thugs once indise, knowing something is wrong.

    Weren't the two thugs sort of like Jaws and the bald guy?

    I also think the end of QoS was a bit inspired by TSWLM.

    Fleming knew what he was doing when he withheld the adaptation. But the man knew how to write a title. Trying to think of a comparable modern writer who introduced so many phrases to the vernacular. The many cultural riffs on FRWL alone...

    There are loose adaptations littered all over the films - MR>DAD, TMWTGG>LTK, SF>TMWTGG, MR>QOS, etc. Some more looser than others, when you really have to dig deep to look for similarities, such as the very loose ones mentioned above regarding TSWLM, when they could be nothing more than mere coincidences.

    But true adaptations are what we are looking for. FYEO directly takes the characters and plot from the Fleming shorts stories, plus a scene from LALD, OP directly adapts the same short story, as does TLD, and LTK directly adapts scenes from LALD.

    And CR also does so with the entire novel (updated to fit modern times, of course).

    The closest we have had to this in recent times is the torture scene in SP, which is pretty much a direct adaptation of the scene from Colonel Sun.

    I am sorry what version of cotopussy did you watch or read ...


    because the short story has NOTHING to do with Clowns and the circus or India etc

    Of course it doesn't. Where did I say it does? Bizarre.... :-S

    I was referring to the entire auction scene with the fabrege egg, even quoting `the property of a lady'.

    When I said OP, I meant the short story from the OP compilation novel - TPOAL. Sorry, maybe I should have been more specific to what I was referring to.

    ok where is Maria Fraudstien?
  • Posts: 1,630
    "Maria Fraudstien" !!! I STILL do not recall that character name, even upon reading it here. It sounds like she'd be a good character for Mel Brooks' The Producers !
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I believe her name was Freudenstein?
  • Posts: 1,630
    Maria Freudenstein ? Did she create a monster of herself, so to speak, by constantly pyschoanalyzing people in her relationships ?
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